Mobile Suit Gundam: The Witch From Mercury - Anime Episode Discussion

[kari-no-sugata II]

Originally Posted by kuroyanagi

I see we're going the Cross Ange route of mixed-gender bisexual harem end Nice. No doubt Elan is not far behind in the line.

Hmm, I'm not sure how much I'd trust Elan's motivations here. This is clearly a setting where some children follow the will of their parents and some don't to varying degrees. It wouldn't surprise me if Elan has (until now) been the type to basically give up on their own ego and do whatever their parents ask without fail. So his actions are quite possibly part of a long term plan to undermine Suletta and ultimately beat her (or try to). So I wouldn't be too surprised if he challenges Suletta do a duel seemingly out of nowhere in a few episodes.

That being said, I still haven't warmed up to Guel after the uh, slave trader-y stuff he said in the 1st episode ("I was too lenient with you", "you're just a trophy" - seriously... barf), so I'm hoping this is not the end of his character development.

Yeah, those lines of his did make me (and I assume most viewers) instantly hate the guy but now I wonder if he was actually "projecting". He very much wants to be his own person. He seems to have pride in his family background in general but also wants his own achievements, not achievements given to him on a silver platter. That being the case, he probably hates the idea of being treated as a trophy by some prospective wife that his father would pick for him, so in a weird way maybe he was keen to "win" Miorine through duels as it would be something he achieved for himself rather than it being a pure power grab.

He definitely got the most character development this episode. Not going to complain - the show keeps surprising me in good ways (even if some bits very much feel like a farce).

I would point out that while Miorine is willing to do whatever it takes so that Suletta wins, I don't think she sees Suletta as a friend yet. In her own mind at least, she probably just sees Suletta as a means to an end and doesn't care that much about her personally. For now. I think it's going to take some time for this tsundere princess to open up. Okay in ep 2 she did change her mind about escaping to Earth which seemed to be to help Suletta but maybe (at least how she justified it to herself) she decided that there's no way her father wouldn't be prepared for that and instead decided to do something he likely wouldn't be prepared for.

It could be argued that Miorine is trying to run away from her responsibilities. She probably has no interest in running a major company or even helping and certainly isn't interested in being a trophy wife to someone who does run a major company. I dunno how long this school has been around for and whether it's always had a tradition of duels but perhaps the reason why Delling did this is to teach the kids the importance of power (of all kinds), how to use their power to achieve goals and so on (and also getting used to a clear social hierarchy). He might argue that Miroine should have used the power she had available (through her father's company) to achieve her goals instead of rejecting that and failing. Putting it another way, Miroine hates her father so much that she's also rejecting the benefits that come as being his daughter and this is why she's failed to achieve her goals.

Anyways, the mobile suit fight was riveting. It's not just about Aerial having OP funnels, Suletta has some serious combat skills - evading, bait-and-switching, close combat etc. Guel put up a good fight, but alas, there was never any doubt as to who would win.

Was definitely a good battle. Not the most tense but it had a lot of detail. I particularly liked seeing how rain scattered beam weapons.

Originally Posted by Illsteir

I'll be surprised if Guel's intention is indeed genuine and not a ploy to one-up Suletta.

Right now in that moment it seems genuine. Basically, Suletta treated him as a real person and never mocked him once and even praised his resolve. This is probably something he has been craving.

Originally Posted by ryllharu

I honestly deeply enjoy the dichotomy they have with Suletta being very shy socially but cocky and overconfident when it comes to piloting. It makes sense. Her wish list of things to do are all social things that someone with her background never got to experience, and her world has probably been limited to just adults. But whenever it comes to piloting, her attitude shifts. Not in a stark or abrupt manner, but just that she has zero doubts that she and Aerial are the best. Telling Jeturk that her beating him wasn't a fluke with utter confidence in between in stammering and meek other statements was a great example of how they're handling it in an intelligent way.

Agreed. I think Suletta's bucket list also makes a lot of sense given her background. To most people it probably seems very childish but these are all things that most people would take for granted. Suletta never had them growing up and it's common to wish for things you don't have or seemingly can't have.

It also feels like Jeturk didn't actually lose to her this time. The bumbling AI caused most of the damage to their latest gen MS. I wouldn't mind seeing a casual rematch between these two in matching MS units, just to see who's actually better as a pilot.

Hard to say what would have happened with a truly fair fight but at least it felt a genuinely close match and gives a sense of why others might challenge Suletta to a duel in future. Obviously you're going to need a top-of-the line MS to have any chance at all but if it seems achievable then there would be a lot of value in taking the risk. From a long term corporate perspective, if you're already in a high position you would fear your competitors gaining an advantage over you, so proving that you have better technology still would be a reasonable goal. I suspect that for the "big three", they probably suspect that someone is backing the group from Mercury - they'd probably worry about a company from a rank just below them trying to one-up them. (It's also difficult to believe that "Lady Prospera" has done this entirely by herself)

The duel system is ridiculous, but in a good way. Cheating is allowed as long as it looks like a normal system error, using an entire company's resources is allowed, and it is so overly formalized it feels like stupid kids playing stupid games with each other's livelihoods over completely stupid social infractions. It will be very satisfying to watch Suletta and her allies upend the entire status quo they have going.

The overly formal duel system does feel a bit like a farce but it also clearly sets up the idea that "a win is a win no matter how it is achieved". It's clearly not trying to be a sport.

And Miorine still can't pilot anything well without slamming into walls. Balance is maintained.

Heh, yeah. Also something we might see more of in the future - Miorine stepping in to help Suletta against corporate shenanigans.

Originally Posted by Marina2

Look like tech of other company can keep up with Ariel's technology quite well.

Yup. Though I suspect Ariel still has a lot more up its (her?) sleeve... even if Suletta doesn't necessarily know about it.

[ryllharu]

Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata II

Hard to say what would have happened with a truly fair fight but at least it felt a genuinely close match and gives a sense of why others might challenge Suletta to a duel in future. Obviously you're going to need a top-of-the line MS to have any chance at all but if it seems achievable then there would be a lot of value in taking the risk. From a long term corporate perspective, if you're already in a high position you would fear your competitors gaining an advantage over you, so proving that you have better technology still would be a reasonable goal. I suspect that for the "big three", they probably suspect that someone is backing the group from Mercury - they'd probably worry about a company from a rank just below them trying to one-up them. (It's also difficult to believe that "Lady Prospera" has done this entirely by herself).

It gave me the impression that Suletta is quite experienced and confident she can beat most conventional MS' models with Aerial, but something else having bit-like weapons of its own threw her for a moment. She lost the numerical superiority, and she's much more comfortable fighting from mid or long-range.

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata II

Hmm, I'm not sure how much I'd trust Elan's motivations here. This is clearly a setting where some children follow the will of their parents and some don't to varying degrees. It wouldn't surprise me if Elan has (until now) been the type to basically give up on their own ego and do whatever their parents ask without fail. So his actions are quite possibly part of a long term plan to undermine Suletta and ultimately beat her (or try to). So I wouldn't be too surprised if he challenges Suletta do a duel seemingly out of nowhere in a few episodes.

I wonder if the order of the MS' in the Opening is the order of Suletta's duels? I think it went from Guel to Shaddiq to Elan, but I could be forgetting what the latter two's official MS's are.

It could be argued that Miorine is trying to run away from her responsibilities. She probably has no interest in running a major company or even helping and certainly isn't interested in being a trophy wife to someone who does run a major company. I dunno how long this school has been around for and whether it's always had a tradition of duels but perhaps the reason why Delling did this is to teach the kids the importance of power (of all kinds), how to use their power to achieve goals and so on (and also getting used to a clear social hierarchy). He might argue that Miroine should have used the power she had available (through her father's company) to achieve her goals instead of rejecting that and failing. Putting it another way, Miroine hates her father so much that she's also rejecting the benefits that come as being his daughter and this is why she's failed to achieve her goals.

It doesn't seem like anyone is expecting her to have any responsibility beyond being a trophy wife, nobody seems to treat her like she has the potential to run/inherit a company even if ostensibly she's her father's heir apparent, but he definitely doesn't view/treat her that way, just as a tool.

Although I think her dream is to do agriculture on Earth (maybe in honor of her mother) than have anything to do with Mobile Suits or space.

I also am not sure how much resources she has at her disposal. She seems like she has some money, but I'm not sure if she has any access to her fathers' resources.

Yup. Though I suspect Ariel still has a lot more up its (her?) sleeve... even if Suletta doesn't necessarily know about it.

I've seen speculation that the Aerial has some overdrive mode that will bring the GUND-Arm markings from the Lfrith back into play.

[Kanon]

The duel was great, the animation is on a completely different level than Kyoukai Senki (the only recent 2D mecha anime I can remember). And so is the story, thankfully.

Suletta is really endearing. I hope she will have been able to do all the things on her list by the time shit hits the fan. She deserves happiness.

I was a bit surprised to see Suletta struggle in a fight this early in the series, but I'm certain Aerial has features that have been hidden from her. I wouldn't be surprised if it had some kind of Trans am.

It goes without saying Guel proposing to her was also surprising. He seemed like a different guy from the one in the first episode though. Even before the duel he wasn't overly hostile to Suletta or anything. Now, I wonder: will Suletta get more fans from winning the duel than haters from being proposed to by Guel?

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by Kanon

It goes without saying Guel proposing to her was also surprising. He seemed like a different guy from the one in the first episode though. Even before the duel he wasn't overly hostile to Suletta or anything. Now, I wonder: will Suletta get more fans from winning the duel than haters from being proposed to by Guel?

All those messages definitely indicate she's getting popular .

I wonder if she'll finally wear the white Holder uniform next week...

[Endscape]

I'm gonna bust a gut if people start proposing to her at the end of every episode.

At this rate she's going to enforce a perfect non-hostile takeover of the Delling group.

[Twi]

Blog review is done. I wasn't expecting that ending, but okay.

[Anh_Minh]

I wonder if getting proposed to was on her list?

Originally Posted by Kanon

It goes without saying Guel proposing to her was also surprising. He seemed like a different guy from the one in the first episode though. Even before the duel he wasn't overly hostile to Suletta or anything. Now, I wonder: will Suletta get more fans from winning the duel than haters from being proposed to by Guel?

Even if the duel was voided he knew he actually lost. I guess he likes a girl who can kick his ass.

[Twi]

Guel probably would have had a better chance if not for the AI. The suit's performance was excellent but it kept falling into decoys that Guel spotted. And then his dad has the audacity to blame him for losing when the suit is literally piloting itself.

Also, they say the other suits can keep up, but you have to remember that Aerial is likely more than a decade old. They should have blown past it in terms of performance if technology progressed, but at best it feels as though it stagnated to a degree if they're only just keeping up with it the Super Prototype.

[Ragashingo]

Excellent episode.

- Suletta being her own person and having her own different set of priorities was nice.
- The way she won over Guel with her kindness long before their 2nd duel was great.
- I was a bit wary of the school setting when I found out about it after the prologue... but the way it is tied into the corporate politics is continuing to work for me.
- I really enjoyed the way Suletta stumbled through the duel oath on the battlefield.
- The duel itself was really good. I'm really glad we're seeing early on that Aerial's beam drones (people keep calling them funnels... is that a past Gundam reference or something?) are not an overpowered instant win.
- I do find it amusing how often these building-sized robots miss each other with their beam weapons and head-mounted machine guns!
- Given the damage both mobile suits suffered... I'm really worried about an accidental (or "accidental") death during these duels. Can we take bets on who gets to die because of cruel corporate politics? I vote Elan (the "I'll never love" boy.)

[Twi]

Funnels are a reference to older properties where they were called as such. They became known as bits later on, and occasionally fangs.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Ragashingo

- The duel itself was really good. I'm really glad we're seeing early on that Aerial's beam drones (people keep calling them funnels... is that a past Gundam reference or something?) are not an overpowered instant win.

The remote weapons that Aerial uses in this show are called Bit Staves. But it was a modified version of Gundam franchise's classic remote weapons called "funnels".

Originally Posted by Ragashingo

- I do find it amusing how often these building-sized robots miss each other with their beam weapons and head-mounted machine guns!

The first couple of shots that Aerial took were missable diversion. Suletta intended to attack Darilbalde from the side with the Staves but then surprised that Daril charged forward while dodging Aerial's beam rifle shots. The rest of Aerial's beam shots were blocked by Daril's remote weapons. After the rain stopped, all of Aerial's Bit Stave's shots hit their marks.

Also, Mobile Suits are generally fast. They can dodge even beam shots if the pilots are competent enough. You're a Macross fan, right? Surely you know that even big mechs can dodge.

[ryllharu]

Arguably, Aerial uses Bits because they are independently operated and deploy until they need to be recalled for armor or to form the shield.

Funnels are more like what Guel had, because they returned to their positions very quickly.

One type has their own generators and the other doesn't.

Functionally to the story there's no difference. Just nerdy details.

[kari-no-sugata II]

Originally Posted by ryllharu

It gave me the impression that Suletta is quite experienced and confident she can beat most conventional MS' models with Aerial, but something else having bit-like weapons of its own threw her for a moment. She lost the numerical superiority, and she's much more comfortable fighting from mid or long-range.

Agree with the above but the rest is more of a side-comment: I wonder how used she is to actual "combat" or at least practice combat. It's one thing to be an experienced pilot but an experienced fighter is something else. Combat in a MS seems very natural to her both from a physical perspective and also a mental one. I would find it unrealistic if she's never "fought" in a MS before, though I dunno what kind of setting it would have been in. Playing games and having an actual sparring match are very different things.

Originally Posted by Frontier

I wonder if the order of the MS' in the Opening is the order of Suletta's duels? I think it went from Guel to Shaddiq to Elan, but I could be forgetting what the latter two's official MS's are

Elan pilots the Pharact, the angular dark purple one with what looks more like a sniper rifle.

Shaddiq pilots the Michaelis, which is more rounded with a mix of light purple/white.

It doesn't seem like anyone is expecting her to have any responsibility beyond being a trophy wife, nobody seems to treat her like she has the potential to run/inherit a company even if ostensibly she's her father's heir apparent, but he definitely doesn't view/treat her that way, just as a tool.

That could be because she's not playing the "game" though.

Although I think her dream is to do agriculture on Earth (maybe in honor of her mother) than have anything to do with Mobile Suits or space.

I also am not sure how much resources she has at her disposal. She seems like she has some money, but I'm not sure if she has any access to her fathers' resources.

The argument I'm trying to make here is that Miorine isn't even trying to make use of her corporate assets. It's possible that she's always been completely denied the use of such things but that feels unlikely to me - I don't know what purpose making her literally powerless would do. Instead, I think the current situation is one that has deteriorated over time - the more Miroine rebelled the more Delling tried to force his will upon her, leading to a negative spiral where neither trust the other.

Let's put it another way - I think Miorine is rebelling like a child would. She seems to think running away from home will solve everything but this doesn't seem realistic to me. The adult who seemed prepared to help Miorine escape in episode 2 was an adult in comparison - she was willing to go along with Miorine's whims if it would potentially gain her long term benefits. If Miorine had been willing to take a more mature approach she would probably have been able to use her corporate assets to achieve her goals. Instead she's been burning bridges, even ones that could help her escape.

I've seen speculation that the Aerial has some overdrive mode that will bring the GUND-Arm markings from the Lfrith back into play.

I'm sure we'll see Suletta with blue markings on her face again.

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by Endscape

I'm gonna bust a gut if people start proposing to her at the end of every episode.

At this rate she's going to enforce a perfect non-hostile takeover of the Delling group.

Or every episode ends up with Suletta saying "ehhhh!?" .

Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata II

Agree with the above but the rest is more of a side-comment: I wonder how used she is to actual "combat" or at least practice combat. It's one thing to be an experienced pilot but an experienced fighter is something else. Combat in a MS seems very natural to her both from a physical perspective and also a mental one. I would find it unrealistic if she's never "fought" in a MS before, though I dunno what kind of setting it would have been in. Playing games and having an actual sparring match are very different things.

It seems like the Lfrith/Aerial was the only real Mobile Suit on Mercury, or at least the ones of their class, from the background info we have. It seemed like she mostly just used the Aerial to help out or survive the environment, but maybe Elnora trained her how to fight.

Elan pilots the Pharact, the angular dark purple one with what looks more like a sniper rifle.

Shaddiq pilots the Michaelis, which is more rounded with a mix of light purple/white.

Ah, so going by the Opening her next fight would be Shaddiq and her last Elan.

That could be because she's not playing the "game" though.

I just don't think she's given any power to actually play in it. The closest she's got was when she called off her dad in the meeting but all she could really do was use his own logic or doctrines against him and that help from stuff she wasn't really in control of (Lady Prospera and Suletta).

The argument I'm trying to make here is that Miorine isn't even trying to make use of her corporate assets. It's possible that she's always been completely denied the use of such things but that feels unlikely to me - I don't know what purpose making her literally powerless would do. Instead, I think the current situation is one that has deteriorated over time - the more Miroine rebelled the more Delling tried to force his will upon her, leading to a negative spiral where neither trust the other.

Let's put it another way - I think Miorine is rebelling like a child would. She seems to think running away from home will solve everything but this doesn't seem realistic to me. The adult who seemed prepared to help Miorine escape in episode 2 was an adult in comparison - she was willing to go along with Miorine's whims if it would potentially gain her long term benefits. If Miorine had been willing to take a more mature approach she would probably have been able to use her corporate assets to achieve her goals. Instead she's been burning bridges, even ones that could help her escape.

I just don't get the sense that she has any corporate assets or anything major at her disposal aside from possibly a sizeable bank account that she used to pay for passage to Earth. Delling doesn't seem like the type of father who would give her access to that, since he doesn't see her as anything more than a tool or bargaining chip. In that respect it makes perfect sense to leave her little to actually do anything about it with.

They don't seem to be coming at it that Delling ever gave her much free space at all and was instead constantly controlling her life (he wouldn't let her keep playing piano), and he only distrusts her because she keeps trying to defy his control, which I think she's earned.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by ryllharu

Arguably, Aerial uses Bits because they are independently operated and deploy until they need to be recalled for armor or to form the shield.

Bits & Funnels can be interchangable.

For example, both Nu Gundam & Alpha Azieru's remote weapons are caled Funnels even though they look completely different:





Nu Gundam's Funnels when in store mode look like a slapped-on sail on its back. Meanwhile, Alpha Azieru's Funnels are the protruding parts of its body.


Another example is from G Gundam:



Rose Gundam had Rose Bits.

And from Gundam AGE, we have Gundam AGE FX that used its C-Funnels to slice & dice enemies:

Originally Posted by ryllharu

Funnels are more like what Guel had, because they returned to their positions very quickly.

What Darilbalde has is more like a variation of Turn X's All-Range Attack/Bloody Siege where it can detach its limbs as remote weapons

[kari-no-sugata II]

Originally Posted by Frontier

I just don't think she's given any power to actually play in it. The closest she's got was when she called off her dad in the meeting but all she could really do was use his own logic or doctrines against him and that help from stuff she wasn't really in control of (Lady Prospera and Suletta).

I don't think it would make any sense for Delling to have never allowed Miorine any power at all ever. If you're going to that degree, why not just imprison her at home?

I just don't get the sense that she has any corporate assets or anything major at her disposal aside from possibly a sizeable bank account that she used to pay for passage to Earth. Delling doesn't seem like the type of father who would give her access to that, since he doesn't see her as anything more than a tool or bargaining chip. In that respect it makes perfect sense to leave her little to actually do anything about it with.

They don't seem to be coming at it that Delling ever gave her much free space at all and was instead constantly controlling her life (he wouldn't let her keep playing piano), and he only distrusts her because she keeps trying to defy his control, which I think she's earned.

I think that's how things have deteriorated to this extent but I don't think it was always like this. It wouldn't surprise me that if Miorine wanted to use corporate power in a way that Delling approved of then he'd let her. I don't see how Delling would benefit from dehumanising her entirely from the start.

Of course, this is my own theory and speculation. Maybe Delling is that bad but I'd feel like that was a missed opportunity from the writers. To be clear, I think the guy's a scumbag either way but I hope he's more than just a one dimensional scumbag.

Anyway, while watching the episode I had an image come into my mind of Suletta having a brief meeting with Delling while Miorine is there and since Suletta trusts her parent(s) she might innocently ask a question that Miorine never would that reveals a side of Delling that surprises Miorine. The exact details don't matter too much but it's just an example of how people can struggle to communicate or see the other's perspective.

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata II

I don't think it would make any sense for Delling to have never allowed Miorine any power at all ever. If you're going to that degree, why not just imprison her at home?

I just don't see why he would at all. What does he have to gain from it? He's never seemed to care about getting on his daughters' good side at all in this, and it seems like the main reason she's in the school is for other people to compete over.

She's supposed to be in an engineering course, right? But it doesn't seem like she cares about her studies so much as her tomatoes and plants, so maybe he forced her to take that course to be a "proper wife?" Not that anybody seems to care or think highly of her capability.

I think that's how things have deteriorated to this extent but I don't think it was always like this. It wouldn't surprise me that if Miorine wanted to use corporate power in a way that Delling approved of then he'd let her. I don't see how Delling would benefit from dehumanising her entirely from the start.

Of course, this is my own theory and speculation. Maybe Delling is that bad but I'd feel like that was a missed opportunity from the writers. To be clear, I think the guy's a scumbag either way but I hope he's more than just a one dimensional scumbag

I guess if it could benefit him, maybe, but anything that benefited him probably wouldn't benefit her, so I don't think there'd be a point to it.

I think there's a lot about their family background that we need to unveil at this point.

[kari-no-sugata II]

Originally Posted by Frontier

I just don't see why he would at all. What does he have to gain from it? He's never seemed to care about getting on his daughters' good side at all in this, and it seems like the main reason she's in the school is for other people to compete over.

She doesn't need to physically be at school for that though.

She's supposed to be in an engineering course, right? But it doesn't seem like she cares about her studies so much as her tomatoes and plants, so maybe he forced her to take that course to be a "proper wife?" Not that anybody seems to care or think highly of her capability.

She's on the management course.

I think there's a lot about their family background that we need to unveil at this point.

Yep. Hopefully before someone kills him - the first episode set up the distinct possibility that he can be killed so I'm sure it's just a matter of time.

[FlareKnight]

The show is finding its footing and the third episode was pretty solid. Sounds awful to say, but if I don't try to compare it to previous Gundam series it isn't bad . Not that it can't get there, but right now it just feels like an average show for the fall season.

Feels like we're going down a Persona 5 road where adults all suck. Everyone is being manipulated by their parents in some ways. Though some I'm sure are less bothered by it than others. Even Suletta's mother is absolutely lying to her face. Lot of nerve there considering that without Suletta piloting that mobile suit in the prologue that they'd both be dead.

Might just be me, but I feel like the pacing is odd at times. The big dramatic "let's duel" and then...Suletta goes to school for a while before it. I guess it makes sense to not have the duel happen right away. But I feel like...getting to it faster would have been better. But I guess if this is Gundam at school then they need to have some highschool moments sprinkled in there.

Yeah, Suletta remains really awkward. All the more so with the time it takes her to go through her "1 to run, 2 to fight" thing. Still think that's an absolutely horrific policy to drill into someone, but I guess it's going to be the catch phrase of this show. It may be an intentional move for the writing, but still not going to love it.

I'm kind of feeling for Guel at various points of this episode. Not only does he have a brutal family situation, he's fighting an absolute busted monster of a mobile suit, can't really use his own, and he's also got to deal with Suletta knowing she isn't really a bad person. That's a lot. Plus he was clearly given a concussion considering his proposal at the end there .