Myself; Yourself - Episode 8 Discussion / Poll

[Reckoner]

Nice boat!


JK


I feel that Sana's friends were just trying to protect him from the thought of not being able to do anything. Hey, if it were not for our little teacher, Sana may have not done anything at all himself. I do get the feeling from this episode that Shuu's whole mental dilemma in life is going to be the fact that he cannot help or protect those around him like he would want. This may be instigated with what is happening with his sister at the moment.

As for Sana theories and the phone... that would be just too creepy in such a light toned series like this. Although that would be awsome if it were true

[serenade_beta]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

As for Sana theories and the phone... that would be just too creepy in such a light toned series like this.

You call this series "light-toned"?

If this series is "light-toned", then anime like _Summer and other peaceful series are air...

[Reckoner]

If you have ever seen a series like Monster or Elfen Lied, then yes this is very light toned. Heck even School days is worst than this, well atm (Need I say anything about the ending?). It is not as light toned as a series like Shana though, retaining a reasonable seriousness in which I can feel the drama and not see it out of place.

[tripperazn]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

If you have ever seen a series like Monster or Elfen Lied, then yes this is very light toned. Heck even School days is worst than this, well atm (Need I say anything about the ending?). It is not as light toned as a series like Shana though, retaining a reasonable seriousness in which I can feel the drama and not see it out of place.

Up to ep 8, Myself;Yourself has pretty much retained the seriousness of your average HS lovecomi/ (not very serious) aside from the recent development of the mailbox and the creepy old lady it has been light-hearted. All of the "heavier" dramas like Iriya no Sora UFO no Natsu and Hanbun no Tsuki ga Noboru Sora both take on much more serious themes in a more explicit manner such as death, sex, rape, and psychological damage. However, the series is definitely taking on a more angsty mood. It isn't Lucky Star, but doesn't even compare to Elfen Lied.

Anyways, I think there is too much blame put on Sana's friend and not enough on our protagonist. Sana has handled the entire Nanaka relationship poorly, succeeding only through luck (if she hadn't been there for the piano sequence...). Remember that much of their interaction is done by just the two of them, Shunsuke & Co. might not have even been aware they were extremely close. Blame is shared on all parties since there was no contact from either side until very recently.
Sure, Nanaka is pissed off at the absence of contact and support she had expected. But she initially chooses to forgive Sana since their relationship was steadily building, culminating in the aftermath of Nanaka's dance. The finishing blow came directly from Sana's indecision over Hoshino, which led him to dismiss them almost holding hands as jiko/accidental. This reduces their level of intimacy as the same as with Hoshino, whom Sana explicitly said he has no feelings for. This is nothing less than an indirect rejection for Nanaka, who clearly has feelings. Sana also frequently seen flirting with Hoshino in his own wimpy way, esp. by Nanaka.

How much contact do you have with your friends from age 11? If you're above Sana's age (16+), the answer is very likely minimal/none for males.

[grey_moon]

Originally Posted by tripperazn

How much contact do you have with your friends from age 11? If you're above Sana's age (16+), the answer is very likely minimal/none for males.

If you are talking about friends then plenty. If you are talking about school mates then none. <- that is from over 20 years ago as well. I guess people's idea of friendship just doesn't mean that much any more, and that is the biggest shame.

[DanielSong39]

It's too easy to point fingers - but I don't think you can really blame Sana for this.

First, let's not forget that Sana moved away. The move was thought to be permanent, and there was no real reason to believe he would come back (other than to visit Aoi and her parents once in a while). I know that in animeverse, childhood friends are for life and is usually the person that the main guy ends up with - but in reality, people MOVE ON. Old friends are generally left behind and forgotten as new ties built with those who are physically present. It is not only natural but realistic that the friends would lose contact. Besides, even if they did contact Sana, what could he do? Maybe talk to Nanaka a couple of times on the phone, if that - he's not in a position to do much more than that.

Second, the dynamics often change with separation. How often have you been reacquainted with old buddies, only to find that you can't quite pick up from where you left off? Believe it or not, it tends to be the norm rather than the exception. Even if Sana had been close friends with Nanaka in the past, there is NO guarantee that they will be more than acquaintences the second time around.

Third, there is nothing wrong with Sana pursuing Asami. It's not like he made a promise of eternal love with Nanaka under the sakura tree or produced a Gift to remember each other by. There was mutual affection but not much more than that - and even if there was, the slap in episode 1 is about a clear a rejection as you'll ever see. It's a bit much to insist on the guy to devote his entire life to you after you rejected and humiliated him in front of the entire class.

[tripperazn]

Originally Posted by grey_moon

If you are talking about friends then plenty. If you are talking about school mates then none. <- that is from over 20 years ago as well. I guess people's idea of friendship just doesn't mean that much any more, and that is the biggest shame.

I can't say I know your circumstances, but this is Japan. Age 11 might not be significant where you're from, but in Asia, elementary school lasts until 6th grade. When Sana left his hometown, he had just finished elementary school and entered middle school somewhere else. It's a new environment, people often change drastically and are too self-absorbed under the stress of adjustment. This is especially true for Sana since he thought he would never see any of his old friends again, at least initially.
It might be hard to have an accurate perspective on this in your 30's, but your personality is considerably less stable in your tweens. I know a lot of people who went from literally silent to extrovert on meth around that age.
In fact, one of the most tragic parts of this episode is the mutual understanding between Sana and Nanaka at how much they have each changed since old times. You can see it, as they are both extremely guarded people now, who are socially awkward and insecure about themselves. Self-loathing is a strong possibility as well considering Sana's "suicide theory" and Nanaka's self-blame on the arson.

Originally Posted by DanielSong39

It's too easy to point fingers - but I don't think you can really blame Sana for this.

First, let's not forget that Sana moved away. The move was thought to be permanent, and there was no real reason to believe he would come back (other than to visit Aoi and her parents once in a while). I know that in animeverse, childhood friends are for life and is usually the person that the main guy ends up with - but in reality, people MOVE ON. Old friends are generally left behind and forgotten as new ties built with those who are physically present. It is not only natural but realistic that the friends would lose contact. Besides, even if they did contact Sana, what could he do? Maybe talk to Nanaka a couple of times on the phone, if that - he's not in a position to do much more than that.

Second, the dynamics often change with separation. How often have you been reacquainted with old buddies, only to find that you can't quite pick up from where you left off? Believe it or not, it tends to be the norm rather than the exception. Even if Sana had been close friends with Nanaka in the past, there is NO guarantee that they will be more than acquaintences the second time around.

Third, there is nothing wrong with Sana pursuing Asami. It's not like he made a promise of eternal love with Nanaka under the sakura tree or produced a Gift to remember each other by. There was mutual affection but not much more than that - and even if there was, the slap in episode 1 is about a clear a rejection as you'll ever see. It's a bit much to insist on the guy to devote his entire life to you after you rejected and humiliated him in front of the entire class.

I absolutely agree, however, you need to separate reality and fiction. In anime scenarios, yes, osananajimi stay close through ridiculous intervals of separation. This is an anime. Therefore, there is an expectation to at least remember what Nanaka looks like at the very least. Again, totally ludicrous in reality, but often works that way in anime (ie. Sana remembering that his teacher was the one who gave him caramel, he didn't connect the two right away, but did remember the nee-san's face).
Read my post, I didn't mention Sana's actions at all during the separation. I blamed the current situation on how he handled it after his return. The scene where he checks Nanaka out at the temple without a word ranks up there with the protagonist reading porn on his date in School Days in terms of social faux pas.
In regard to your second point, separate fact and fiction. You said it yourself osananajimi remain close and forever remain that way, period.
Lastly, I never said there was anything wrong with pursuing Asami, however passively that may be. However, you can't deny it is a major factor in Nanaka's hostility towards Sana right now. While Nanaka may have rejected Sana initially, her actions later more than implies interest. From the audience's POV, they scream "suki". Also, Nanaka and Sana did share many parting gifts, in some ways. The sakura bracelet and mail keys are both gifts that are clearly precious to both parties.

Just because I had a Nanaka avatar at the time of my post, doesn't imply "fanboy" status. There is no point in hoping that Nanaka will "win" because she will, and you know it. Everything is set up for the pairing and you'd be hardpressed to find evidence otherwise. This series just doesn't have time for protagonist indecisiveness that plagues soooo many harems with only 5 more eps.

[Kang Seung Jae]

Originally Posted by tripperazn

The scene where he checks Nanaka out at the temple without a word ranks up there with the protagonist reading porn on his date in School Days in terms of social faux pas.

I think that's too harsh on Makoto (er, I mean Sana). You don't really expect to recognize people when you meet them after 5~6 years, especially if those were the teenage years.

[grey_moon]

Originally Posted by Kang Seung Jae

I think that's too harsh on Makoto (er, I mean Sana). You don't really expect to recognize people when you meet them after 5~6 years, especially if those were the teenage years.

Also I believe Nanaka wasn't a miko in them days. I read it as she moved into the temple after the incident

[Sinestra]

One of the best episodes so far wow. Nanaka finally has her break down and we finally learned what happend not like we all didnt suspect anyway. Her trauma from accident is what is preventing her playing the violin. Plus she blames Sana for not being there that was not fair he couldnt not control that. What kid can control where and when their parents decide to move?

I did notice Sana looking at his watch again when she said he was having fun with his new friends. Hum????? i really want to know the back story to all that.

[Snuffle]

Originally Posted by DanielSong39

Besides, even if they did contact Sana, what could he do? Maybe talk to Nanaka a couple of times on the phone, if that - he's not in a position to do much more than that.

Don't underestimate the power of the phone. I saved someone's life with it. (and i don't mean 911 or anything to do with medical, strictly advice)

Originally Posted by DanielSong39

the slap in episode 1 is about a clear a rejection as you'll ever see. It's a bit much to insist on the guy to devote his entire life to you after you rejected and humiliated him in front of the entire class.

Ya, I also felt that slap was to much... Personally, I would like Sana to end up with Asami... but that will most likely not happen.

[grey_moon]

Phone life lines saves many peoples lives every year, but the most important part is the other person on the end of the phone. <- A very valuable service that should never be looked down on.

Personally I was really impressed with the way Sana handled Nanaka's bad dream problem. The talisman trick I've used before and I think it is great. I wonder has anyone considered that Nanaka wanted Sana because he out of all the friends as a child already proved himself to her.

When I was their age the solution that seemed to be all the rage was the make the person feel bad about it technique. All that does is makes people shut down and not go to them for help again. Of course people who use this technique notches it up as a win since they don't get requests for help again....

[serenade_beta]

Originally Posted by tripperazn

I know a lot of people who went from literally silent to extrovert on meth around that age.

Read my post, I didn't mention Sana's actions at all during the separation. I blamed the current situation on how he handled it after his return. The scene where he checks Nanaka out at the temple without a word ranks up there with the protagonist reading porn on his date in School Days in terms of social faux pas.

That's cause it's a drug.
No matter how stable or unstable you are, using meth and stuff will cause such things to happen.

I'm sure there are quite a number of people in the world at Sana's age that check out unknown girls. They don't all go Makoto, and don't all end up living a bad life.

Originally Posted by DanielSong39

Besides, even if they did contact Sana, what could he do? Maybe talk to Nanaka a couple of times on the phone, if that - he's not in a position to do much more than that.

Although it's been already said, do not underestimate telephone calls.

Originally Posted by grey_moon

When I was their age the solution that seemed to be all the rage was the make the person feel bad about it technique. All that does is makes people shut down and not go to them for help again. Of course people who use this technique notches it up as a win since they don't get requests for help again....

How human society falls...

[tripperazn]

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

That's cause it's a drug.
No matter how stable or unstable you are, using meth and stuff will cause such things to happen.

I'm sure there are quite a number of people in the world at Sana's age that check out unknown girls. They don't all go Makoto, and don't all end up living a bad life.

I'm saying they're "extroverts on meth" as a figure of speech. Because thats just how talkative they are, you'd think their heads would explode if you shut them up for 5 min.

Of course at around 16, you'd check out anything boobs and a skirt. I'd actually disagree that Makoto ended up living a bad life, at least until the very end. Having 2 girls vying for you in that way is awesome, he couldn't have known they were yandere.

Again, this is anime, childhood friends are universally remembered. You say that Sana shouldn't be expected to remember Nanaka's face. But he recognizes Shuusuke, Shuuri, and Aoi without any problems.

[Grimkill7]

Originally Posted by tripperazn

I'm saying they're "extroverts on meth" as a figure of speech. Because thats just how talkative they are, you'd think their heads would explode if you shut them up for 5 min.

Of course at around 16, you'd check out anything boobs and a skirt. I'd actually disagree that Makoto ended up living a bad life, at least until the very end. Having 2 girls vying for you in that way is awesome, he couldn't have known they were yandere.

Again, this is anime, childhood friends are universally remembered. You say that Sana shouldn't be expected to remember Nanaka's face. But he recognizes Shuusuke, Shuuri, and Aoi without any problems.

Sana said himself that he didn't recognize her because she changed so much. It wasn't her face that he didn't recognize, it was the attitude/expression attached to it.

People keep saying that Sana could have saved Nanaka with a phone call, but how the hell was he supposed to know how Nanaka was suffering? His friends wouldn't tell him because they assumed there was nothing he could do for her. Which was a mistake on their part, but come on, they're kids. Could Nanaka have called him herself? Why would she? She had the mailbox and was still under the delusion that Sana would save her if she put those letters in there.

Nobody's to blame here but the arsonist. Trying to fault other people in a situation like this is pointless. Especially people who had absolutely no control over their current situations.

[Sinestra]

Though i dont think all the blame should be placed on Sana, I will critize him for not calling not EVEN once. Sure friends move and move on but at least they try to keep in touch with one another. Grey_Moon is right just hearing someones voice who you trust can make all the difference in the world. Just hearing Sanas voice could have helped Nanaka realize that shes not alone and maybe it would have openned her to talking with other students in middle school. But he didnt talk to her and it festered for all this time and then his numerous mistakes he has made with Asami and Nanaka only compunded the problems and the result was what we saw in episode 8.

[UPR]

Originally Posted by tripperazn

Again, this is anime, childhood friends are universally remembered. You say that Sana shouldn't be expected to remember Nanaka's face. But he recognizes Shuusuke, Shuuri, and Aoi without any problems.

He at first did not recognize Aoi only after a while. ANd Shuu rememberd Sana by sayibg his name in class. Since the only other boy Sana spent time with was Shuu that pretty obvious. And Shuri well she is with Shuu and look somewhat alike especially the hair color.

And the first time Sana saw Nanaka was at the shrine. By his memory Nanaka was not living at the shrine so he might just have thought it was another girl.

[tripperazn]

Originally Posted by Sinestra

Though i dont think all the blame should be placed on Sana, I will critize him for not calling not EVEN once. Sure friends move and move on but at least they try to keep in touch with one another. Grey_Moon is right just hearing someones voice who you trust can make all the difference in the world. Just hearing Sanas voice could have helped Nanaka realize that shes not alone and maybe it would have openned her to talking with other students in middle school. But he didnt talk to her and it festered for all this time and then his numerous mistakes he has made with Asami and Nanaka only compunded the problems and the result was what we saw in episode 8.

Agreed. I was merely trying to make the point that you can't really blame Sana and Nanaka's mutual friends for what happened. Not all the blame has to fall on Sana, but surely he is more at fault than Shuusuke, Shuuri, and Aoi just because they didn't tell him what happened.

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by tripperazn

Agreed. I was merely trying to make the point that you can't really blame Sana and Nanaka's mutual friends for what happened. Not all the blame has to fall on Sana, but surely he is more at fault than Shuusuke, Shuuri, and Aoi just because they didn't tell him what happened.

its cool i understood you but i also cant condone Shu, Shuri and Aoi hiding the events of Nanaka's past and allowing him to struggle with Nanaka with no clue why. Granted he may not have been able to do anything but at least he would have been aware. According to G.I. Joe Knowing is half the battle

[Vestus]

I can't believe people still are debating about the whole "bad friend" "good friend" thing:

An important point I forgot to mention correlates after Sana came back -

I think Aoi, Shuu, Shuyri didn't mention about the fire b/c they didn't feel it was their place to talk about it to Sana. I think they wanted Nanaka to be the one to tell Sana about the fire.

Which would explain why they wanted to "hook up" or "get them alone" Sana with Nanaka. Well, I know for a fact Shuyri wanted to, and I'm pretty sure Aoi and Shuu wanted too, but I'm not 100% sure about them.

I mean would you feel it's your place as well?


I think people are also forgetting -

Aoi, Shuu, and Shuyri were all in Middle School at the time of the fire. Around that age, they may not have the power or ability to resolve the problem properly.

I know contacting Sana and saying something like, "Hey Sana you should really call Nanaka, she really misses you...etc." to get Sana to call Nanaka is obvious to us (most of us are close to 18).

The logic, intelligence, wisdom, etc. gained from 12 - 18 is enormous, and they probably didn't posses the necessary logic, intelligence, wisdom, etc. needed to resolve the problem at the time.

EDIT:
Anyway, the result is fine and everything seems to be solved. So yeah, even if it was solved improperly at first, it was solved properly in the end. So yeah, it really doesn't matter. IMO, I think it was good that it was solved poorly at first, b/c it ended with a sweet romantic solution (I almost cried at the end).

Also, Sana did help out Nanaka in a way (even if it was accidental). The mailbox probably consoled Nanaka more than anything. And whose idea was that? Sana.