AnimeSuki Forums

Xellos-_^ · 2012-01-09, 19:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandySyler

And the central states? There's stuff in between Wisconsin and Michigan you know.

a Basket case, the central states are going to fine out exactly just how much their state had been dependent on tax dollars form other states. Some will work out better then others but all are going to see drastic decrease in standards of living.

Ithekro · 2012-01-09, 19:51

The people are too seperated along the political lines geographically to form nation-states. The issues that break the coutry will have to be something more than simple Republican vs Democrat. It would have to be something that causes regions to states as wholes to break of from the Union on a political level (rather than a popular level).

If there was a general civil war (the kind we see sometimes in smaller counties) it would be a mess and nothing like our Civil War of the 1860s.

If we had one, I'd much rather it be the 1860s kind were a part of the nation breaks off as a seperate country, then fights a war. The messy rebel, insergency business is not to my liking, nor does it follow our national character even to the days we were rebels (War of Indepenance), we still had a "fuctional" governement in the Continental Congress.

Vexx · 2012-01-09, 19:59

Rome didn't suddenly vanish... they just communicated less and less - eventually the outland states realized that they were on their own. They stopped sending revenues and no one came to get them. Calls for help went unanswered.

I suspect it will be *something* like that... the Northwest already has a lot of "Northwest specific eco-system" partnerships that sidestep ineffective federal measures. Take those notions and roll them out a 100 years or so. The difference is we'll be talking to each other the whole time via Internet/telco.

But that scenario assumes that we won't get over this level of disagreement. Personally, I think population demographics will solve the discord. The more obvious it becomes that we're in an irreversible shift - the more panicky those in the fading 'top of the heap' get.

ganbaru · 2012-01-09, 20:47

Romney wrestles with Republican attacks on corporate past
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8081SI20120110

Zetsubo · 2012-01-09, 20:47

The USA must work and it will.

I base my point on a relatively over simplified reason.

The wealthy robber baron class have no other countries to run to.

Europe is a no no since most of the countries are just as ill... as the USA.

They are certainly not going to run to China or South Korea.

The Caribbean is too small.

Africa... LOL !!!

India... nope.

They have no where to run to and until the Martian colony terra-forming projects start, they are stuck in the USA and will be forced to make it work.

Canada is too "socialist" for them to survive there... and you can forget about Central and South America.

Simply put, the lifestyle they need and want and enjoy can only be had the good old USA.

Once again, I could be wrong.

Kokukirin · 2012-01-09, 21:09

Some people are looking for ways to build a sea platform that will become an independent entity, free of government control and taxation. Kinda a libertarian paradise for billionaires.

Vexx · 2012-01-09, 21:12

or you just need to have a private army and a gated compound in a small easily bribed country.

Xellos-_^ · 2012-01-09, 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vexx

or you just need to have a private army and a gated compound in a small easily bribed country.

Quote:

Now, for the first time, libertarians have a real chance to implement their ideas. In addition to a big special development region, the Honduran government intends to approve two smaller zones. And two libertarian-leaning start-ups have already signed a preliminary memorandum of understanding with the Honduran government to develop them.
One firm goes by the name of Future Cities Development Corporation. It was co-founded by Patri Friedman, a grandson of Milton Friedman, a Nobel laureate in economics, and until recently executive director of the Seasteading Institute, a group producing research on how to build ocean-based communes. The other is called Grupo Ciudades Libres (Free Cities Group) and is the brainchild of Michael Strong and Kevin Lyons, two entrepreneurs and libertarian activists.
Both share a purpose: to build “free cities”. Last April all three spoke at a conference organised by Universidad Francisco Marroquín, a libertarian outfit in Guatemala. In September they and Giancarlo Ibárgüen, the university’s president, launched the Free Cities Institute, a think-tank, to foster the cause.

http://www.economist.com/node/21541391

close, very close.

Ithekro · 2012-01-09, 21:28

An Arcology would serve that purpose, and have the ability to be an independant city-state. In theory.

ganbaru · 2012-01-10, 06:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kokukirin

Some people are looking for ways to build a sea platform that will become an independent entity, free of government control and taxation. Kinda a libertarian paradise for billionaires.

Sound like a idea from Scott Adams's blog.

Edit: The 20 Biggest Donors of the 2012 Election (So Far)
http://motherjones.com/politics/2012...obama-gingrich

GundamFan0083 · 2012-01-10, 11:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganbaru

Edit: The 20 Biggest Donors of the 2012 Election (So Far)
http://motherjones.com/politics/2012...obama-gingrich

Well, at least Mother Jones is showing us that we here in the US will get the "best" President Wall Street money can buy.

It's like the Constituttional Republic has become a fairy tale we tell our kids.

Once upon a time, there was a Republic where people made a constitution that let them vote for members of government in something called democracy...

Autumn Demon · 2012-01-10, 12:43

Money can only do so much. At some point the voters becomes saturated with campaign messages and spending more money on ads has little effect.

And loss of the system of government the US constitution provides isn't worth crying over. Articles I and II create such a horrendously inefficient structure of legislative and executive governance that I wouldn't call it a democracy.

Ithekro · 2012-01-10, 12:45

Since it is and always has been a Republic, yeah sure.

Democracy is the misnomer. This is not a democracy. At least not strictly speaking. But a Constitutional Republic.

Sugetsu · 2012-01-10, 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

close, very close.

Ah I knew that I wasn't crazy to think that some wealthy people would try to build their own cities where pure unleashed capitalism would be sole ruler... a la Bioshock style

The dream of Any Rand and Edward Bernays lives on... YAY...

Kokukirin · 2012-01-10, 13:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autumn Demon

Money can only do so much. At some point the voters becomes saturated with campaign messages and spending more money on ads has little effect.

That must be why US elections are breaking new spending records every time, right?

It's true that the marginal effect of ads has to decrease as the number of ads increases, but no one really knows at which point do additional ads become ineffective. And with more funding, the politicians can afford to hire better people to make more effective ads. Or perhaps they can saturate the media with their messages that their opponents' messages get flooded out.

I recall reading an article (on New Yorker I think) on how donations from the likes of Americans for Prosperity helped Republicans win many key battles in midterm and state elections. The picture it paints may be a bit dark, but the effect of big donations cannot be downplayed.

Ithekro · 2012-01-10, 13:30

Well things are more expensive than they use to be. Plus there are many many more channels and outlets for those ads to be played on, and each costs money. Some thirdy years ago, Three networks and some newspapers were all they really needed (and billboards and such)...not there are hundreds of cable channels to hit, thousands of websites, and who knows how many other methods they need to cover these days.

Vexx · 2012-01-10, 14:09

I don't think its the form of government that people care about so much as the idea of *fairness*. Once the peasants get the idea there should be "rule of law" that applies to everyone and it corrodes, the 'peasants' can get pretty vindictive once they get over being depressed and miserable.

Noi · 2012-01-10, 17:12

I think I'll go Obama again this year, this years candidates seem duller than 08's.

Vexx · 2012-01-10, 17:57

This is hilarious ...

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/11/us...er=rss&emc=rss

Mentar · 2012-01-10, 18:10

Hey, each democratic country gets the government their citizens deserve. Should Romney make it through the primaries and seriously manage to win the election... *shrug*

2012-01-09, 19:51	Link #1802
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	The people are too seperated along the political lines geographically to form nation-states. The issues that break the coutry will have to be something more than simple Republican vs Democrat. It would have to be something that causes regions to states as wholes to break of from the Union on a political level (rather than a popular level). If there was a general civil war (the kind we see sometimes in smaller counties) it would be a mess and nothing like our Civil War of the 1860s. If we had one, I'd much rather it be the 1860s kind were a part of the nation breaks off as a seperate country, then fights a war. The messy rebel, insergency business is not to my liking, nor does it follow our national character even to the days we were rebels (War of Indepenance), we still had a "fuctional" governement in the Continental Congress. __________________

2012-01-09, 19:59	Link #1803
Vexx Obey the Darkly Cute ... Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ... Age: 66	Rome didn't suddenly vanish... they just communicated less and less - eventually the outland states realized that they were on their own. They stopped sending revenues and no one came to get them. Calls for help went unanswered. I suspect it will be something like that... the Northwest already has a lot of "Northwest specific eco-system" partnerships that sidestep ineffective federal measures. Take those notions and roll them out a 100 years or so. The difference is we'll be talking to each other the whole time via Internet/telco. But that scenario assumes that we won't get over this level of disagreement. Personally, I think population demographics will solve the discord. The more obvious it becomes that we're in an irreversible shift - the more panicky those in the fading 'top of the heap' get. __________________ "It Really IS Rocket Science", Novel series rough drafts; vol. 1 thru vol. 3 complete Volume 4 in work, Visit the thread for short stories!

2012-01-09, 20:47	Link #1804
ganbaru books-eater youkai Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Betweem wisdom and insanity	Romney wrestles with Republican attacks on corporate past http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8081SI20120110 __________________

2012-01-09, 21:12	Link #1807
Vexx Obey the Darkly Cute ... Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ... Age: 66	or you just need to have a private army and a gated compound in a small easily bribed country. __________________ "It Really IS Rocket Science", Novel series rough drafts; vol. 1 thru vol. 3 complete Volume 4 in work, Visit the thread for short stories!

2012-01-09, 21:28	Link #1809
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	An Arcology would serve that purpose, and have the ability to be an independant city-state. In theory. __________________

2012-01-09, 20:47	Link #1805
Zetsubo 著述遮断 Join Date: Jul 2009	The USA must work and it will. I base my point on a relatively over simplified reason. The wealthy robber baron class have no other countries to run to. Europe is a no no since most of the countries are just as ill... as the USA. They are certainly not going to run to China or South Korea. The Caribbean is too small. Africa... LOL !!! India... nope. They have no where to run to and until the Martian colony terra-forming projects start, they are stuck in the USA and will be forced to make it work. Canada is too "socialist" for them to survive there... and you can forget about Central and South America. Simply put, the lifestyle they need and want and enjoy can only be had the good old USA. Once again, I could be wrong.

2012-01-09, 21:09	Link #1806
Kokukirin Shadow of Effilisi Join Date: Oct 2011	Some people are looking for ways to build a sea platform that will become an independent entity, free of government control and taxation. Kinda a libertarian paradise for billionaires.

2012-01-10, 12:43	Link #1812
Autumn Demon ~ Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Boston Age: 35	Money can only do so much. At some point the voters becomes saturated with campaign messages and spending more money on ads has little effect. And loss of the system of government the US constitution provides isn't worth crying over. Articles I and II create such a horrendously inefficient structure of legislative and executive governance that I wouldn't call it a democracy.

2012-01-10, 12:45	Link #1813
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Since it is and always has been a Republic, yeah sure. Democracy is the misnomer. This is not a democracy. At least not strictly speaking. But a Constitutional Republic. __________________

2012-01-10, 13:30	Link #1816
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Well things are more expensive than they use to be. Plus there are many many more channels and outlets for those ads to be played on, and each costs money. Some thirdy years ago, Three networks and some newspapers were all they really needed (and billboards and such)...not there are hundreds of cable channels to hit, thousands of websites, and who knows how many other methods they need to cover these days. __________________

2012-01-10, 14:09	Link #1817
Vexx Obey the Darkly Cute ... Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ... Age: 66	I don't think its the form of government that people care about so much as the idea of fairness. Once the peasants get the idea there should be "rule of law" that applies to everyone and it corrodes, the 'peasants' can get pretty vindictive once they get over being depressed and miserable. __________________ "It Really IS Rocket Science", Novel series rough drafts; vol. 1 thru vol. 3 complete Volume 4 in work, Visit the thread for short stories!

2012-01-10, 17:12	Link #1818
Noi Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2012	I think I'll go Obama again this year, this years candidates seem duller than 08's.

2012-01-10, 17:57	Link #1819
Vexx Obey the Darkly Cute ... Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ... Age: 66	This is hilarious ... http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/11/us...er=rss&emc=rss __________________ "It Really IS Rocket Science", Novel series rough drafts; vol. 1 thru vol. 3 complete Volume 4 in work, Visit the thread for short stories!

2012-01-10, 18:10	Link #1820
Mentar Banned Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Hamburg Age: 54	Hey, each democratic country gets the government their citizens deserve. Should Romney make it through the primaries and seriously manage to win the election... shrug