Romance in Macross

[TwilightHack]

Originally Posted by ippus

@CeruleaFeng: I said this before but...by definition he's not a troll.
He just has....rather peculiar opinions;

He kinda reminds me of OD from when she stopped by the Macross forums for a bit.

Originally Posted by Wesley84

I'm sure I'm going to hate. Sheryl's been a massive disappointment so far, and the one developement out of her that I would like to see probably isn't going to happen because it'd require to admit what is truly wrong with her's and Alto's characters.

I'm curious, can you please elaborate?

[ippus]

Nooo idea who that is 8DDDDDD

[Mughi]

Originally Posted by ippus

...I said this before but...by definition he's not a troll.
He just has....rather peculiar opinions;

I've noticed that there are a large number of people frequenting these Anime section boards who like to overuse that term and apply it to anyone who is annoyingly persistent in their "opposite of the in-crowd" opinions. It's actually rather more tiring than the arguing.

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by TwilightHack

I'm curious, can you please elaborate?

Sure. If they totally, unflinchingly embrace what they are. No more pretending to actually care about things like flying, dying, Galaxy, other people. Basically give up on caring about caring, and just be the shallow, self-absorbed people that they are, and enjoy it. See that they are simple performers and that there really isn't anything else to them besides that. That they aren't serious business, no matter what effect they might have on people.

Then they can finally be cool again.

I think Ranka may have finally seen it after they asked her to sing against the Vajra. What kind of people they really are, and that they shouldn't be taken seriously. Alto in particular, the way she regarded him before leaving. There was some saddness and pity in the way she talked to him.

[Key Board]

are you... projecting your dislike on certain people in RL onto these characters?

[TwilightHack]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

Sure. If they totally, unflinchingly embrace what they are. No more pretending to actually care about things like flying, dying, Galaxy, other people. Basically give up on caring about caring, and just be the shallow, self-absorbed people that they are, and enjoy it. See that they are simple performers and that there really isn't anything else to them besides that. That they aren't serious business, no matter what effect they might have on people.

Then they can finally be cool again.

Sheryl's already done it, Alto is next... Ranka is well, I don't know, floating in space somewhere.

Even so I wouldn't go as far as to say not taking their performances seriously. When your songs/performances give hopes and dreams to those in need, thats important.

But remember one thing, the private is different from the public. It's totally fine fine to look out for yourself... its when you push yourself on others that its crossing the boundaries.

I think Ranka may have finally seen it after they asked her to sing against the Vajra. What kind of people they really are, and that they shouldn't be taken seriously. Alto in particular, the way she regarded him before leaving. There was some saddness and pity in the way she talked to him.

That's an interesting opinion but pure speculation.

As far as we know, she left for completely different reasons.

[ippus]

@Mughi: Internet terminology gets misused all the time >_>
It's like how people mistake angst or any form of depression as "emo", anyone who disagrees a "flamer", anyone who is loud spoken "attention whore" and as we can clearly see now, anyone annoyingly persistent "a troll".

@Wesley84: No words. Truly no words. And on that happy note i am back to sleep again.


Ohhh happy happy sheryl hair. Must get fanart scanned by tomorrow *A*

[Ja-Y-Ce]

wondering are they taking turns to build up their resolution? Episode 22 being Sheryl... 23 being Alto's (looks like from the preview itself..and Ozma is pointing out in some form of direction for Alto to decide on his own path) ... 24 being Ranka's (from next episode preview - probing into her childhood and stuff) and come 25 - with the 3 main characters and their newly made resolution - bringing us a grand finale to end the war (military and shipping wise)

wouldn't really consider episode 21 as the main resolution part from Ranka...more of she has made a decision - a stepping stone ahead to whatever she wants.

[BetoJR]

Originally Posted by TwilightHack

That's an interesting opinion but pure speculation.

Well, and what part of his argumentation has actually been based on the actual anime we've all been watching, huh?

[cheesie]

Spoiler for Brief Analysis of Episode 22:

I may need ackem, tak and musouka's assistance for this, so feel free to correct me as I offer this out for thought.

The hug scene between Alto and Sheryl is all about walls crumbling down and unresolved feelings. There were so many revelations and misunderstandings that came out of this one little scene itself. There is so much pain in Sheryl's declaration to sing, because she feels that singing is all she has left; it is all she could live for in her days to come. She believes she had no future with Alto, she believes that her love for Alto is unrequited, and I won't be surprised if she keeps her love a secret from Alto and carry it to her grave without Alto ever knowing how she feels about him.

Does Alto realize why she's so determined to sing?

Just as Alto failed to understand Ranka, he failed to understand Sheryl's heart, though in no fault of his own. It is a heart-wrenching scene for Alto too, because he sees that she's fighting with him for her singing; he just didn't know that she had no choice. He has no idea that she loved him, he didn't know that she intends to sing for the rest of her life because she believed she had no future with Alto, he probably didn't even know how much he meant to her to the point where she could place himself first before her, seeing how he led the topic away when she was beginning to talk about the issue.

It was only after Alto saw her desperate for her singing, that, after a moment of pain, he hugs her and promised to stay by her side and support her as she sings. But by doing so, Alto has chosen to take a passive stance on Sheryl's death issue, he remains idle by the sidelines, pretty much resigning himself to supporting Sheryl on what he thinks is Sheryl's true wish, until her death. He has no idea that she was singing Northern Cross at her most painful moments.

Ozma's conversation with Alto in the end is a move that urges Alto to find his way and be resolute in it, just as Ranka had done when she flew with Brera to space, as the flashbacks indicated. Is Alto going to stand there and watch Sheryl sing until she dies? Or will he fight for her by fighting against her wishes? Will he allow her to slip away from him like what he's doing now?

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by TwilightHack

Sheryl's already done it, Alto is next... Ranka is well, I don't know, floating in space somewhere.

Sheryl hasn't unless you mean the latest episode. She's still full of shit thinking egomanical things like being "the Songstress of Despair". Alto sure as hell hasn't had any personal revalations, and wherever Ranka is it's probably a million times more interesting than anything happening on Frontier.

Even so I wouldn't go as far as to say not taking their performances seriously. When your songs/performances give hopes and dreams to those in need, thats important.

Sheryl thinks those people are stupid and beneath her. She needs to turn that attitude around before I can like her.

But remember one thing, the private is different from the public. It's totally fine fine to look out for yourself... its when you push yourself on others that its crossing the boundaries.

I don't understand what you mean.

That's an interesting opinion but pure speculation.

As far as we know, she left for completely different reasons.

Yeah, Ranka leaving like that left alot open to interruptation. I can think of a million, rational reasons on why she left, but I also can't imagine her being able to actually consider most of them. I'm of the opinion that she's going with her gut for the most part, and since her gut has magical fold bugs floating around in it, maybe that'd be for the best?

[TwilightHack]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

Sheryl thinks those people are stupid and beneath her. She needs to turn that attitude around before I can like her.

While that may have been the case earlier in the series, I personally believe she has grown beyond that point. Case and point, taking care of Nanase in Ep20. No one who thinks themselves higher would put themselves in danger and look after someone who they consider beneath.

I don't understand what you mean.

It was to address your "self-absorbed" comment.

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by TwilightHack

While that may have been the case earlier in the series, I personally believe she has grown beyond that point. Case and point, taking care of Nanase in Ep20. No one who thinks themselves higher would put themselves in danger and look after someone who they consider beneath.

That's the "pretending to care" part I mentioned earlier. Besides, episode 20 was absolutely horrible. Sheryl not only took care of Nanase, she gave her first rate EMT treatment. Something that should be way outside her ability to deal with.

[TwilightHack]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

That's the "pretending to care" part I mentioned earlier. Besides, episode 20 was absolutely horrible. Sheryl not only took care of Nanase, she gave her first rate EMT treatment. Something that should be way outside her ability to deal with.

I don't quite agree to that. Especially since Sheryl's tune has changed in her songs... reflecting her feelings.

About the EMT treatment, I believe that didn't happen till those two Military guards escorted them to the shelter. I don't doubt that there was a nurse or doctor tending to the wounded.

Originally Posted by crisis

Spoiler for Brief Analysis of Episode 22:

I may need ackem, tak and musouka's assistance for this, so feel free to correct me as I offer this out for thought.

The hug scene between Alto and Sheryl is all about walls crumbling down and unresolved feelings. There were so many revelations and misunderstandings that came out of this one little scene itself. There is so much pain in Sheryl's declaration to sing, because she feels that singing is all she has left; it is all she could live for in her days to come. She believes she had no future with Alto, she believes that her love for Alto is unrequited, and I won't be surprised if she keeps her love a secret from Alto and carry it to her grave without Alto ever knowing how she feels about him.

Does Alto realize why she's so determined to sing?

Just as Alto failed to understand Ranka, he failed to understand Sheryl's heart, though in no fault of his own. It is a heart-wrenching scene for Alto too, because he sees that she's fighting with him for her singing; he just didn't know that she had no choice. He has no idea that she loved him, he didn't know that she intends to sing for the rest of her life because she believed she had no future with Alto, he probably didn't even know how much he meant to her to the point where she could place himself first before her, seeing how he led the topic away when she was beginning to talk about the issue.

It was only after Alto saw her desperate for her singing, that, after a moment of pain, he hugs her and promised to stay by her side and support her as she sings. But by doing so, Alto has chosen to take a passive stance on Sheryl's death issue, he remains idle by the sidelines, pretty much resigning himself to supporting Sheryl on what he thinks is Sheryl's true wish, until her death. He has no idea that she was singing Northern Cross at her most painful moments.

Ozma's conversation with Alto in the end is a move that urges Alto to find his way and be resolute in it, just as Ranka had done when she flew with Brera to space, as the flashbacks indicated. Is Alto going to stand there and watch Sheryl sing until she dies? Or will he fight for her by fighting against her wishes? Will he allow her to slip away from him like what he's doing now?

That was great crisis.

[Wesley84]

I guess it's my own shortcoming then. I haven't been paying any attention to the lyrics or music at all. I care more about what characters say or do.

[Darial]

Originally Posted by crisis

Spoiler for Brief Analysis of Episode 22:

I may need ackem, tak and musouka's assistance for this, so feel free to correct me as I offer this out for thought.

The hug scene between Alto and Sheryl is all about walls crumbling down and unresolved feelings. There were so many revelations and misunderstandings that came out of this one little scene itself. There is so much pain in Sheryl's declaration to sing, because she feels that singing is all she has left; it is all she could live for in her days to come. She believes she had no future with Alto, she believes that her love for Alto is unrequited, and I won't be surprised if she keeps her love a secret from Alto and carry it to her grave without Alto ever knowing how she feels about him.

Does Alto realize why she's so determined to sing?

Just as Alto failed to understand Ranka, he failed to understand Sheryl's heart, though in no fault of his own. It is a heart-wrenching scene for Alto too, because he sees that she's fighting with him for her singing; he just didn't know that she had no choice. He has no idea that she loved him, he didn't know that she intends to sing for the rest of her life because she believed she had no future with Alto, he probably didn't even know how much he meant to her to the point where she could place himself first before her, seeing how he led the topic away when she was beginning to talk about the issue.

It was only after Alto saw her desperate for her singing, that, after a moment of pain, he hugs her and promised to stay by her side and support her as she sings. But by doing so, Alto has chosen to take a passive stance on Sheryl's death issue, he remains idle by the sidelines, pretty much resigning himself to supporting Sheryl on what he thinks is Sheryl's true wish, until her death. He has no idea that she was singing Northern Cross at her most painful moments.

Ozma's conversation with Alto in the end is a move that urges Alto to find his way and be resolute in it, just as Ranka had done when she flew with Brera to space, as the flashbacks indicated. Is Alto going to stand there and watch Sheryl sing until she dies? Or will he fight for her by fighting against her wishes? Will he allow her to slip away from him like what he's doing now?

Excellent job Cheese. Glad to see your plot bunnies are alive and well! Yeah, I think Alto got some growing up to do next, and it will be fascinating to see how it turns.

[Kora]

what do you think about why Alto didn't confess to Sheryl?

and i'm not believing that he doesn't knows she loves him, there's no way a person can be that dense, with all hints he had.

[cheesie]

Originally Posted by Darial

Excellent job Cheese. Glad to see your plot bunnies are alive and well! Yeah, I think Alto got some growing up to do next, and it will be fascinating to see how it turns.

Haha Darial, plot bunnies imply more about ideas that gnaw on you and wouldn't let go. In this case, I think this is heavily supported by what the episode, as well as the rest of the episodes, have shown so far.

Emotional barriers were torn down, but at the same time, Alto has no idea Sheryl is in love with him, and Sheryl is more or less content with Alto's presence near her as she sings to her death. But you could also see that Sheryl is at the peak of despair, and you have to truly wonder if Alto is really there for her, or how much Sheryl is allowing Alto to be. Look at the very nature of Northern Cross and the reason she sings this song.

"...a Sheryl in love that conveys a sad and painful feeling to the point of tears. The lyrics from the heart are straight forward and deeply moving."


May'n: "...this is Sheryl at her most painful moments - pretending to be strong, when she’s struggling to not show her weakness. So when I sang it, rather than ‘carefully’ sing it, I sang it like I was shouting in tears."

This closed a chapter and opened up a new one at the same time.

[TwilightHack]

Originally Posted by crisis

This closed a chapter and opened up a new one at the same time.

Quote next episodes name, "A New Beginning."

[Darial]

Originally Posted by crisis

Emotional barriers were torn down, but at the same time, Alto has no idea Sheryl is in love with him, and Sheryl is more or less content with Alto's presence near her as she sings to her death. But you could also see that Sheryl is at the peak of despair, and you have to truly wonder if Alto is really there for her, or how much Sheryl is allowing Alto to be.

Yeah. Looking back, that scene is breathtaking in how much happened and how much DIDN'T happen. It's like even though they were so close together physically, their hearts are kept apart by invisible walls. So it's deeply moving and sad at the same time.

It's kinda funny that we thought 22 was going to be Sheryl's supermove. In hindsight, there was no supermove on Sheryl's part. She did absolutely nothing to advance her position with Alto. Klan did it for her and started the chain reaction. So at this point with things the way they are, I'm not sure if Sheryl still have a move left or if the rest is up to Alto.

Overall, I think this episode further strings along the triangle and leaves the resolution for the future. I wouldn't be surprised if the resolution is dragged out until the last minute of episode 25 at this rate. Still, it was an excellent episode filled with surprises and drama. Definitely a bittersweet ride today.