2010-11-29, 00:15 | Link #19161 |
Zero of the roulette
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Finland
Age: 30
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I think I believe in this: http://courtofillusions.wordpress.co...9-level-truth/
I’ll be damned if I agree to George being the culprit of the story. It’s far too third-rate!! There was an interesting notion that while George is good at martial arts, most of the murders are done with guns. It could just be to hide the real culprit though. I'm not entirely denying it. George would sometimes be an accomplice, because of Shannon. I thought he could be a culprit in EP3 too, because Eva-Beatrice is basically Eva's greed which she pushed onto George, by her own words. If Eva-Beatrice hints at George's motive, and some of his darker nature was shown in EP4, there is still some basis to suspect him. Remember, if we got all the evidence only in EP6, that's too late for all of the crucial hints being given in EP4. |
2010-11-29, 00:22 | Link #19162 |
18782+18782=37564
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: InterWebs
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Btw, a little question if I may. Thanks to the discussions up till now, almost all the magic-side meta-characters had been established to have some kind of basis in the real-world be it an aspect, a character, or whatever. However, I can't seem to remember what the goats were based on in the real world. Anyone have a thought?
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2010-11-29, 00:26 | Link #19163 | |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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My biggest gripe would be with point two because it's actually wrong. He does have plenty of knowledge there.
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2010-11-29, 00:31 | Link #19164 |
Zero of the roulette
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Finland
Age: 30
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Oh yeah, you had a George culprit theory.
I also noticed the article missed something, like George actually knowing something about magic. That show-off thing in your article seems intriguing too. Though the murders might have been planned by Beatrice/Shannon/Yasu I think, as she wrote the message bottles. But the thing is, he's shown to be compassionate and what can the family even actually do to stop Shannon and George getting married? Unless all characterization of him being wrong, he being maybe mentally ill, I can't see it happening. But there are things that really support it. There is not enough motive, at least not before the Core Arcs, as I mentioned. |
2010-11-29, 00:38 | Link #19165 |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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Well it doesn't end with him being Married. He has an entire future planned in his head as well as he shows in episode 6. He just plans it the opposite way that Jessica does. As for him being compassionate I said the that characterization was consistent. I think it was Kyrie who mentioned how easy it was for love to turn into hate. So I believe change in circumstances can result in a change in character. If it's needed.
If you were to rule out that motive because you think it's third rate I think you would have to rule out some of Kyrie's motives too. However given what I've heard about episode 7 I don't think you can say that's any better.
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2010-11-29, 00:47 | Link #19167 | ||||
The True Culprit
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This fails at the second premise. George displays occult knowledge in interactions with Maria. I didn't read any further since it made a false red. Quote:
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2010-11-29, 00:59 | Link #19168 | |
Zero of the roulette
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Finland
Age: 30
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Unless Shannon sets up the bomb to kill George once she realizes she's helping a horrible murderer? And because she loves him, she aims to cover it up. You've given me some food for thought again... A problem is posed by the message bottles. If they were written before the incident and the crime blamed on Beatrice, the bomb must have been planned beforehand. So if Shannon helps George, she must be doing it knowing someone's going to die, at least at some point. From one thing to another, has anyone thought what I thought reading EP5 a second time? What if Kumasawa is posing as the man from 19 years ago, on the phone? She has been shown to have good acting skills, and she could have been calling to Natsuhi from her room in the guest house without anyone noticing. In other words, after Kumasawa returned to the guesthouse, she never went to the second floor until morning. Maybe Krauss was held hostage there too, though Kumasawa herself is unlikely to capture him. |
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2010-11-29, 01:05 | Link #19169 | ||
The True Culprit
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I'm not saying George is the culprit or anything, but he IS capable of murder. Quote:
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2010-11-29, 01:42 | Link #19170 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
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The Higurashi that exists within the Umineko universe could be a fictionalized account of real events. For that matter, it might be completely different from the Higurashi we have. Also, Japan still uses era names today. So, the Higurashi universe's use of them is hardly noteworthy.
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2010-11-29, 01:51 | Link #19171 | |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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2010-11-29, 02:13 | Link #19172 | |
The True Culprit
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What a tautological and self-voiding statement.
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2010-11-29, 02:24 | Link #19173 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
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Most of his points are flat-out wrong. Like George having no occult knowledge. Quote:
Also Jesus Christ, that blog you are using as evidence makes some of the worst arguments I have ever seen. I know the mods want us to calm down, so I must state I'm not trying to be rude. It's just that it's seriously awful reasoning. http://courtofillusions.wordpress.co...move/#more-807 Look at that bastardization of the rules. First of all, the writer seems to be trying to use a misguided version of the Socratic method to prove his point. His first argument is that the story doesn't follow Van Dine's rules. Congratulations Mr.Author, welcome to episode 5. Now that we are past that, let's go to his ''brilliant'' argument. BECAUSE OBSERVERS MAY LET THEIR CONCLUSIONS BE HEARD, THEN IT DOESN'T MATTER IF THEY ARE DENIED IN RED. Very well. Now let's put this claim to a test: "Because I can claim anything and say it out loud, it has the right to be a possibility, even if it's impossible given the game's context." Test #1: Michael Bay is the culprit. He killed everyone. He was filming an overly realistic film. His accomplice was Kinzo. They are friends. This was foreshadowed by the fact that they are both insane. This explains the over the top special effects, the explosion at the end, and the re-shootings known as episodes. Test #2: I claim that Jim Carrey is the killer. See how ridiculous his argument is? It makes no sense. Moreover, his analysis of the Van Dine rules are just not very good. |
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2010-11-29, 02:46 | Link #19174 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2008
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Alternatively, no work called Higurashi exists within the world of Rokkenjima-prime. |
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2010-11-29, 02:56 | Link #19175 | |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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Why would you argue for it's canon continuity in a shared universe while offering an alternative where the contents of the Higurashi novel are completely different from what you're trying to insert into it? Think about that. How does that make sense? Like AuraTwilight said it's a self voiding-statement.
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2010-11-29, 03:00 | Link #19176 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Apart all the things that have been said about that blog I want to add that the idea that George being a uber martial artist is a fact is simply laughable.
There are no more evidences of that than Jessica being a demon with magically enhanced fists. In other words none of that stuff has been confirmed outside of a magic scene. Did George receive martial art lessons? Probably. Is he good at it? Probably not. I'd also like to point out that Eva herself despite her flaunted martial arts prowess was easily pinned by Krauss in EP5. I would take all the kung fu stuff with a grain of salt.
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2010-11-29, 03:13 | Link #19177 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2008
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Last edited by Frisko; 2010-11-29 at 03:13. Reason: formatting |
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2010-11-29, 03:18 | Link #19178 |
The True Culprit
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FAT people tend to suck at martial arts.
All three of those options you present, Frisko, don't make sense. 1) So then what's in this fictionalized account? In what way is Higurashi even an noteworthy event if, as far as anyone in that universe should know, it never happened due to cover-ups and supernatural timey wimey balls? 2) Why bother calling it Higurashi if it has nothing to do with Higurashi? 3) If the events of Higurashi happened in the world of Rokkenjima-Prime and no work based on it exists, then why did the message bottles' author mention a Higurashi novel in their writings?
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2010-11-29, 03:51 | Link #19179 | |||
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Join Date: Dec 2008
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Just to be clear, by "events of Higurashi" I mean the events of one arc of Higurashi, not every arc or some hypothetical Hinamizawa-prime. I'll add another possibility. 4) The events of Higurashi happened in the Umineko universe. Furthermore, the Higurashi Battler read was identical to what we read (except it was a standard novel rather then a series of visual novels). The author was a witch who was able to find out about events that happened in other universes using her witch magic. |
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2010-11-29, 05:22 | Link #19180 |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
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Battler's sin was long hinted to be a promise, the problem is that ep7 comes out of the blue and makes it a conditional promise, which mucks up everything. It's no longer Battler saying "I will do x" and then not doing x; that at least is an obvious "sin" because it's a promise to do something that isn't followed up on.
However, it's in the form of "when you do y, I will do x." Nothing prior to ep7 suggests this specifically, but neither is such a thing discounted. The problem here is that it absolves Battler of partial responsibility for the sin. Until Yasu does y, he's under no obligation to do x. The only way she can really force him into a position where he can "break his promise" is to perform her end of the bargain and make him somehow aware of it. That is, if the actual act of breaking the promise is in fact the sin, and not making it to begin with or somesuch. There have been other proposals I won't go into, just pointing out that there are several. So the issue here is, why did Ryukishi set things up this way? People had already basically guessed the context of the promise. And it seemed to make sense. Throwing in a conditional is mucking up his own narrative. I can't think that was an accident as it takes an extra step of thinking about the "sin" to even complicate a promise that way. So what the deal, man?
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