Character Discussion - Kallen

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by Kid Ying

Yeah, that's what i think. It's not like everything is Lelouch's fault. He was not living in the same world as Shirley or Euphemia, he was living in a path that was just bringing destruction to him and to his beloved ones. Not that Lelouch is innocent or something like that, but cases like that were just products of the sordid world he was living. The geass is the catalyst of this misfortune, after all.

In the new world, where the geass don't have a reason to be used or even to exist, i don't think anything like this would happen.

And there's a reason for Lelouch wanting for Kallen to be present at his assassination... I just never thought about it. Give me a few seconds, hehe.

I don't want us to start the whole in a different world bit because in a better world lelouch and kallen would probably never even meet. And he put kallen there for the same reason he put nunnaly there to make it perfectly clear to everyone that they are not on his side

[Kid Ying]

Not in a different world, i'm saying about the new world Lelouch created with his death. About another world, who knows? They did go to the same school after all and there's the PD 4 that it's on another world and Nunnalle oblige Lelouch to take Kallen to a party or something like that. It could happen, hehe

[snowdevil_crow]

Wasn't PD4 just set sometime in the first season, and he was remembering it?

[Lolipopo]

Originally Posted by Kid Ying

Not in a different world, i'm saying about the new world Lelouch created with his death. About another world, who knows? They did go to the same school after all and there's the PD 4 that it's on another world and Nunnalle oblige Lelouch to take Kallen to a party or something like that. It could happen, hehe

Someone is confused~

PD 3 (PD 4 is the oriental dancers PD) is set during season 1, it was for a dance organised in Ashford, it was the same world, just the previous season.)
It was...Fabulous !

....

[bladeofdarkness]

i agree that the PD was awesome
but it was BEFORE lelouch had even started to care about kallen
and well before she knew his ID

[Frostfire]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

i agree that the PD was awesome
but it was BEFORE lelouch had even started to care about kallen
and well before she knew his ID

The PD starts somewhere during or after Turn 7 itself, with Lelouch remembering (though you could even say its post Turn 22). It then goes back to what he remembers, which was in the season one timeframe.

The question is, why would he remember that of all things?

Break it down analytically, so much so to put even other analysis powers to shame, the PD is during or after an episode where Lelouch faces Kallen at his worst moment and when he's pulled up from that. You could call it the episode where she saves him from himself. What he remembers, then, are the good times which can easily have something to do with the dialogue at Ashford. The good and lost times, that he sets out to get back. Shirley jealous, Milly as Milly, Rivalz, Suzaku and Nunally together with Lelouch, and Lelouch and Kallen teasing and mocking (respectively) each other.

But, you don't really need much of that in PD itself. You could just have a montage of Lelouch remembering the good times with everyone being together, much like the montage presented in Turn 7 with the hedron. The PD is focused on those two (Lelouch and Kallen) more than anything, from her grumbling at him being his partner to Lelouch having wanted Nunally as his partner to their little joust to her dress falling off, and how things used to be. Then, Turn 9, he asks her to come back.

How's that? I still stick by my theory that Lelouch did fall for her in some way before she realized herself that she had for him. But that's just me shipping and, as many shippers have demonstrated, I am clearly wrong. Logic and analysis have no place in shipping.

GFG

[yvj]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

i'm saying that kallen might be what the TV trope site calls a "love martyr"
someone who would put up with alot of shit from someone she loves becouse she is really devoted to him (never cheat on you, never forgive you)
i'm suggesting that lelouch might not be the right type of guy for someone like her
his very nature is manipulation, even his geass is just an exteniton of his ability to make people do what he wants with his words
he is practiclly BOUND to hurt her, and HAS hurt her more then anyone else in the show

Late to the party

Bound to hurt her? How so? IMO This needs further elaboration

Are you saying by his very nature Lelouch manipulates people in general and would likely do so if he was in a relationship with Kallen? With the implication that Lelouch will most certainly take advantage of her devotion?

Secondly we're talking about after ZR, he's alive world is in peace hypothetical right?

Y'know its not like genocidal dictators don't know how to love and treat a gal right. Ask Eva Braun.

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by yvj

Late to the party

Bound to hurt her? How so? IMO This needs further elaboration

Are you saying by his very nature Lelouch manipulates people in general and would likely do so if he was in a relationship with Kallen? With the implication that Lelouch will most certainly take advantage of her devotion?

Secondly we're talking about after ZR, he's alive world is in peace hypothetical right?

Y'know its not like genocidal dictators don't know how to love and treat a gal right. Ask Eva Braun.

i quote my original post that basiclly sums up my original reason for bringing this up

and now for something completely different

is kalulu an actual good pairing for kallen
while this is an odd topic to be raised by a long time kalulu fan such as myself, i have the following points to raise
1)kallen, despite being one of the most badass action girls i have seen in years, is seen crying (or at least in tears) more then any other code geass character (possibly combined)
the times that i can recall ATM are stage 9 and 25, turns4,7,19,21,24,25
she is even shown shedding tears in the first R2 intro song (which i wont include in the count, since its just an OP)
2)and in by far most of these events, lelouch is the cause for her tears
and its not mearly that he CAUSED those tears, but that he did so by lying using and manipulating her and, later on, by stepping on her feelings and her trust in him in as brutal a manner as can be (ep 22 is a good example, and ironiclly its one case where she doesnt actually cry)

had ZERO-R not came to pass, would kallen really be well off with a guy who makes her cry more often then not ?

this doesnt extend only to his treatment of kallen
but of everyone
kallen however might be the only one who would actually be willing to put up wth it rather then just dump his ass when he crosses the line

[morbosfist]

But, as has been pointing out repeatedly, the circumstances in which he does this are ones he is not going to repeat when he's not busy taking over the world. You're completely ignoring context in this argument.

[yvj]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

i quote my original post that basiclly sums up my original reason for bringing this up




this doesnt extend only to his treatment of kallen
but of everyone
kallen however might be the only one who would actually be willing to put up wth it rather then just dump his ass when he crosses the line

See I would take it that the snippets we got of Ashford days. His interactions with Nunnally, why Rolo, Shirley, Milly grew to have feelings for him during his peaceful days and even to some extent why Schniez, Euhpie and the other siblings were fond of him as a child implied that Lelouch even with his mad charismatic manipulating logic skills, generally followed the old "Golden rule" when it came to those around him.

Course then we have the old going down the demon path yadda yadda but you can legitimately argue on that being under extreme circumstances for a near impossible goal.

[yvj]

Originally Posted by Frostfire

How's that? I still stick by my theory that Lelouch did fall for her in some way before she realized herself that she had for him.

Got a pride and prejudice vibe out of that You heard me

Leouch as Darcy
"I cannot fix on the hour, or the spot, or the look or the words, which laid the foundation. It is too long ago. I was in the middle before I knew that I had begun."

[kir44n]

..........Kalulu, compared to Pride & Prejudice? I'm sorry, I do believe I must go gag in the corner. It's almost as disgusting as...alot of other things.

I dunno, as mildly entertaining as some of these ideas are, unless theres some underlying *evil* or tension, I think Lelouch would lose much of his...more interesting character traits. Maybe if you made the Acadamy Head/dean/thingy a super-secret-cult leader, it'd be amusing, but idk.

[yvj]

Originally Posted by kir44n

..........Kalulu, compared to Pride & Prejudice? I'm sorry, I do believe I must go gag in the corner. It's almost as disgusting as...alot of other things.

I didn't say it was completely comparable. Frost's post just reminded me of that one line.

[Kid Ying]

Originally Posted by Lolipopo

Someone is confused~

PD 3 (PD 4 is the oriental dancers PD) is set during season 1, it was for a dance organised in Ashford, it was the same world, just the previous season.)
It was...Fabulous !

....

Are you sure? i remember that i saw a translation saying that it was in a gentle world or something.

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by Kid Ying

Are you sure? i remember that i saw a translation saying that it was in a gentle world or something.

That part is meant to be a flashback. It's the "Homemade Dress" dance. The girls pick names out of a hat and Kallen ends up with Lelouch.

[Kid Ying]

Then that's really happened? How nice. That pd never got subbed, so i saw some guys on LJ saying the PD was not canon, just a "what it could be in a gentle world" and trusted them.

Wow, that's awesome in a lot of ways, thanks Loli and Morbo, hehe. (And i knew it was the PD3, i put PD4 there to see if the people were paying attention. )

yvj, i loved your comparison.

[yvj]

So suspend your belief a moment. Lelouch is the cart driver filled with the strength of Code RR our whatever, it's a hybrid code a little from Charles and a dash of C.C, it's the prius of Codes

Anyway the point is like in any great fanfiction Lelouch shows up five years later on Kallen's porch during New Years Eve.

What's her reaction? Pick any five then put them in the order you believe it will happen.

Spoiler for Options:

1) Tears of joy right there on the porch

2) Smacks Lelouch

3) Shouts "Ghost!" and shuts the door

4) Tearful hug against Lelouch

5) Stunned silence

6) Falcon punch

7) Grabs onto Lelouch to see if he's "real."

8) Immediate sequel to turn 22 kiss

9) Brings Lelouch in the house and introduces him to her mom

10) Speed dials her psychartrist

11) Angrily/tearfully demands answers

12) Slams door in his face

13) Rushes back into the house in tears

14) Quietly/Patiently waits for Lelouch's apology

15) Nut cracker

16) Officially confesses her love

17) Tearless but intimate hug

18) "Let's be friends"/"I've moved on" speech

19) Calmly demands answers

20) Hot dirty porch smex.

Add any of your own if you absolutely must.

[Kid Ying]

I have my own version(that happens to be a lot of options together, hehe). Kallen is making some horrible meal for her and her mom, everything is nice, but something still is missing for her, she reminds of the good ol' days and then Lelouch opens the door saying "Sorry to keep you waiting" And Kallen goes: and then she punches him for all the time he made her think he was dead, but then he hugs her and say 'It's okay, now i'm here" and she starts to cry.

Totally cheesy.

[Nobodyman9]

Hmm, given those options, here are a few possibilities

5) Stunned silence
7) Grabs onto Lelouch to see if he's "real"
1) Tears of joy right there on the porch
16) Officially confesses her love
8) Immediate sequel to turn 22 kiss

5) Stunned silence
3) Shouts "Ghost!" and shuts the door
12) Slams the door in his face
13) Rushes back into the house in tears
10) Speed dials her psychiatrist

2) Smacks Lelouch
6) Falcon Punch
15) Nutcracker
6) Falcon Punch
8) Immediate sequel to turn 22 kiss

20) Hot dirty porch smex
20) Hot dirty porch smex
20) Hot dirty porch smex
20) Hot dirty porch smex
18) "Lets be friends"/"I've moved on" speech

Oh, and I'd like to add a few more options if I may

21) Walks up to him, smacks him, and angrily says "you're supposed to be dead".
22) Gino calls from inside the house "Hey baby, who is it?" Awkwardness ensues.
23) She flashes him

[Kid Ying]

Yeah, i thought of Gino being in the house too. It would be like the awkwardest thing i would ever see in the tv.

But then, it would be awesome to see Kallen saying "OKay, Gino, you are a nice guy and stuff, but the main player is here, so now it's time to go back to the bench... Forever.