[Game] Umineko - Spoilers, Theories, Interpretations

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Judoh

It's 8 numbers not 11 or 13. Also it's not an anagram so that number probably won't get you anywhere in solving the epitaph. It really is only a bank account number.

I remember a theory being tossed around that it might be the deactivation code for a possible time bomb, as well.

[Oliver]

Originally Posted by Judoh

It's 8 numbers not 11 or 13. Also it's not an anagram so that number probably won't get you anywhere in solving the epitaph. It really is only a bank account number.

It starts with a 0. More 0s could be missing in this fashion.

Also, what if you convert it back to kanji?

And it's a pin code for the card, not a bank account number, I can guarantee that much. Account numbers are much longer than that - 10-30 digits depending on the country and banking laws. A bank safe cell is not normally associated with an account anyway, only a client record number at most.

[Judoh]

Oh right... It was revealed to be a safety deposit box number wasn't it? I guess that's different.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Oliver

Abstract thought:

Has anyone tried to treat 07151129 as the epitaph key word, i.e. apply the letter sacrifice mechanic to it and see if they can get anywhere?

yes... and I can't get anywhere.

[Renall]

The theory that the epitaph solution is a physical sequence of actions undertaken on the island itself, with the location pointed to by the first part (which requires an atlas to confirm, but isn't actually located where the atlas would indicate), seems to be the most probable outcome given the text evidence. Consequently, I'd imagine the actual instructions are self-contained within the epitaph itself. You shouldn't need the numbers to solve it, and if you did, shouldn't it have instantly clicked for Eva, who at the time already had solved it?

[Jan-Poo]

That's not the kind of relation I imagine.

What I think is that the epitaph solution involves some kind of "decoding" that can be applied to the 8 digit number as well. That would explain why Eva seems so interested in it and writes it down on a paper note (possibly she's decoding it on the fly). But maybe she's just paranoid...

[Oliver]

Originally Posted by Renall

You shouldn't need the numbers to solve it, and if you did, shouldn't it have instantly clicked for Eva, who at the time already had solved it?

No, no, definitely not. I just thought that if I were the author trying to squeeze one more hint in, a number that seems inconsequential otherwise -- in pretty much all cases, pin numbers for cards are generated randomly, to get a specific one you need to pay extra and risk a bank employee knowing it -- but produces a message after a complex transformation would be a very neat place.

[Kylon99]

EDIT:In terms of why it was written, rather than what the numbers mean...

Regarding that pin number, I was speculating that it was a message from one of the people who know of the money sent out to the other people who schemed to send out money (and perhaps to kill as well). To everyone else it's a mysterious sequence of numbers but to the one(s) who sent out the money it would be a very clear that the message was directed at them.

What the message is though, I can only speculate. I'm thinking that it was a rejection of their plan...? Or perhaps it was written outside where George and Shannon were killed was a rejection of George and/or Shannon?

EDIT: If I were to speculate on the number's meaning, then I'd only come up with the obvious. If the numbers were chosen, then they are Battler and Beatrice's birthday? Maybe what the numbers are aren't as important as where and when they show up...

EDIT: This edit button is evil. It makes me feel comfortable just hitting Post before I've finished all my thoughts. I know I've seen people reply to my pre-edited posts before.. 8)

[Renall]

Originally Posted by Oliver

No, no, definitely not. I just thought that if I were the author trying to squeeze one more hint in, a number that seems inconsequential otherwise -- in pretty much all cases, pin numbers for cards are generated randomly, to get a specific one you need to pay extra and risk a bank employee knowing it -- but produces a message after a complex transformation would be a very neat place.

It doesn't necessarily have to come to mean anything, at least in the sense that it need not be decoded in any particular way. As Kylon said, it could simply be a warning or notice to another person who would be familiar with the meaning of the number. Most obviously, it would be a message from one member of a conspiracy to another; since Eva and Battler do not appear to be members of it, the numbers appear to be a mysterious cryptic sequence they can't decode. But maybe there's nothing explicitly to decode.

Now, sure, people don't necessarily pick PIN numbers at random, but neither do they necessarily design them to have a complex coded explanation.

[LyricalAura]

I tried looking at the number from the point of view that it was a bribe, but there are some issues there. Even if you have the number, you can't get at one of the safety deposit boxes without also having a key and an access card as well. And if somebody had already been bribed with complete access to one box, then just giving them the number again wouldn't give them more money. They'd need a second key to get at a second box. So if the number was supposed to be a bribe, we need to assume somebody was given a key and access card as a down payment ahead of time, with the number to be provided on completion of Task X.

Assuming it was a bribe, then since Kumasawa, Nanjo, and Rudolf already had safety deposit box accesses in the mail as of October 3, the number would be worthless to them unless they didn't know those letters were on the way. Additionally, although Eva wrote down the number, she remained in financial trouble for a while after the massacre, so presumably she never knew what it was for. That rules her out as the recipient as well.

The number wasn't on the parlor door at the time Rudolf, Kyrie, and Hideyoshi were discovered (assuming the anime can be trusted; I don't think anyone checked in the VN). That rules out any of the first or second twilight victims painting or receiving it. Rudolf had a stake in his head, which confirms his death before the painting. Kyrie and Hideyoshi were potentially alive, but had obviously mortal wounds, so they're out as recipients too. Therefore, the recipient should be one of George, Jessica, Natsuhi, or Krauss.

The painter must be someone who was away from the survivors long enough to reach the mansion after the 4th-6th twilight discovery. They also knew where the red paint was and had access to Beato's bank account info, so they're probably a core member of Team Beatrice, which eliminates Natsuhi and Krauss at least. Eva's also out again due to her financial hardship.

Unfortunately, beyond that I can't narrow it down anymore. Jessica could have done it by sneaking out of the guesthouse and shadowing Battler's group prior to the 4th-6th twilight discovery. Nanjo could have done it later by climbing out a window (probably on the first floor), and of course George, Kyrie, or Hideyoshi could have done it at some point before they died in the mansion (Hideyoshi being the least likely since he got staked in the chest).

Originally Posted by Kylon99

Regarding that pin number, I was speculating that it was a message from one of the people who know of the money sent out to the other people who schemed to send out money (and perhaps to kill as well). To everyone else it's a mysterious sequence of numbers but to the one(s) who sent out the money it would be a very clear that the message was directed at them.

What the message is though, I can only speculate. I'm thinking that it was a rejection of their plan...? Or perhaps it was written outside where George and Shannon were killed was a rejection of George and/or Shannon?

In that vein, maybe Hideyoshi or Kyrie wrote it to provoke a reaction from potential members of Team Beatrice. If they were part of the original conspiracy but didn't know who all was involved, it would be an opportunity to flush out the culprit. I would also suggest George as the painter, but since he was inside the parlor he wouldn't be in a position to observe the survivors' reactions.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Renall

Now, sure, people don't necessarily pick PIN numbers at random, but neither do they necessarily design them to have a complex coded explanation.

This depends on how much you trust Ryukishi, because in an interview he hinted that that number means something

[Raiza Sunozaki]

How likely do you think it has something to do with Battler? I mean, it does have his birthday in it, but he couldn't make heads or tails out of the rest of it. And people do die because of him. Or his sin. And since it seems the point of the game is to have Battler survive until the end, perhaps in repentence of his sin, the number would almost certainly be seen by him.
Then again, Episode 3 is the only game the number appears in (excluding Ange's story in Episode 4), so maybe the number had something to do setting up Eva as the culprit. But Eva didn't appear to be particularly troubled by the number. But the number was on the door of the room her son was killed in.
On Episode 3 though, there is something that's been bothering me. Both Shannon and Kanon appear as "ghosts" before George and Jessica respectively. I used to think it meant they were still alive by that point, that they had faked their deaths for the first twilight. But after re-reading Episode 3, I remembered the red text saying that they were dead by the time the adults discovered them. So what do the ghosts mean then?

[Geekodot]

Random thought:

0 7 1 5 1 1 2 9
B E A T R I C E

I don't think I've ever seen this mentioned before. The name Beatrice got the same number of letters as the digits in 07151129. If we are trying to look for a code, could this have anything to do with it? Could the name Beatrice also be a code? Who knows...

[ErenselTheJester]

Well, Geekodot, I can't see anything. If the letters and the numbers are connected, then either group has to be rearranged to match the other. Unless there is something I'm missing.

[chronotrig]

Since I didn't see them posted anywhere, here are some things Ryuukishi mentioned about EP7 over the weekend:

Spoiler for Ryuukishi:

I spent most of March finishing up other tasks so that I could give EP7 my undivided attention. Now, I finally have the time to focus entirely on EP7.

Though I had already begun writing by February, it had to be put on hold for quite a while, and I'd like to make up for that lost time now.

Currently, I guess you could say that I've finished the opening and that the story is finally starting to progress.
Unlike the previous Episodes, this game won't just progress chronologically starting at October 4, 1986 around 10:00 AM, and partly because of this, it looks like it's shaping up to have a very different feel to it than the rest of "Umineko" so far.

All of these differences gave me a lot of trouble when setting up the plot, but once I got to writing it, it felt fun to work on something so different from the usual.

The theme of EP7 is a development very different from how "Umineko" has been so far.
To put it in words Bernkastel might use, this is the "inside" tale, where the guts of the game board are dragged out.
Everything so far has been told from the "outside", so there needs to be a clear and plain difference in the feel of this story.

All of the developments and atmosphere of the games so far have only felt like being "on top of the game board".
That feel must change completely when viewed from the game board's underside.
I'd like to show that with a combination of all elements, including the scenario, the characters, and the music.

Because of this, all the "know how" that I've built up so far on how to make an "Umineko"-ish tale doesn't apply, and I am forced to deal with uncertainty and change. However, that makes this very fun for me as a writer.

Nothing that I didn't enjoy writing has ever been highly praised by my readers. In any event, I plan to enjoy myself. In that sense, things really are progressing smoothly.

[Geekodot]

Originally Posted by ErenselTheJester

Well, Geekodot, I can't see anything. If the letters and the numbers are connected, then either group has to be rearranged to match the other. Unless there is something I'm missing.

Yeah, it was just random thinking on my side. However I like to write random thoughts up here in case other people manage to figure something out from it.

Seems like the keyword for EP7 is "different".

[Marion]

Hm. From what he says, EP 7 might be starting before October 4th. Maybe we'll get some more background story on other characters. The human cast in these core arcs have been pretty much ignored for the most part (Natsuhi, Shannon and Kanon being the obvious exceptions to this) as the story took a lot more focus onto the magical cast. Hell how much real world scenes did we get in comparison to meta-scenes in EP 6 especially I would especially like more insight on Rudolf, since his background is the least developed out of the four siblings. All we know is that he sleeps around with a lot of women and got two pregnant and yadayadayada. How he got that way is curious and I can't help but feel that he has some connection to the murders (I mean, he dies 3/4 times the 1st twilight in the question arcs. Now that's some bad luck)

Also, with Shannon as Temperance according to the tarot card extras it seems the Shkannon evidence grows a little, especially since that card is all about mixing with opposites to create an inner harmony.

[SeagullCrazy]

Originally Posted by Raiza Sunozaki

How likely do you think it has something to do with Battler? I mean, it does have his birthday in it, but he couldn't make heads or tails out of the rest of it. And people do die because of him. Or his sin. And since it seems the point of the game is to have Battler survive until the end, perhaps in repentence of his sin, the number would almost certainly be seen by him.

Turn the chessboard over. Why would the person write a coded message to someone, if that someone doesn't know what the message means?
So the person the message was directed at knew what the message meant.

People who could have been alive to see it:
Battler, Eva, Jessica, Nanjo, George, (Kyrie), (Hideyoshi)

Battler assumed it was something related to his birthday and couldn't figure it out.
Eva took out her trusty receipt and wrote the number on it, like she didn't know what it meant. It's possible she was able to decode it later, but that's very unlikely.
Jessica said it was pointless to think about it. Not much information.
Nanjo's son received the access card with the numbers on it.
George's TIPS say in exchange for his life, those numbers were given. Maybe it has something to do with him after all?
Kyrie doesn't have any direct relation to it, but wasn't there a theory that said 07151129 = Asumu?
I can't think of any connection to Hideyoshi. I doubt it was meant to be seen by him.

Was most likely NOT the target: Battler, Hideyoshi
Was probably NOT the target: Eva
Probably the target: Nanjo, George
Unknown: Jessica, Kyrie

Originally Posted by LyricalAura

Therefore, the recipient should be one of George, Jessica, Natsuhi, or Krauss.

So we both narrowed it down to George, and maybe Jessica.

As for the writer, we know that another person other than Battler, Eva, and Jessica was alive when Nanjo was killed. Could the person who killed Nanjo be the same person who wrote the message?

[luckyssol]

Originally Posted by SeagullCrazy

Kyrie doesn't have any direct relation to it, but wasn't there a theory that said 07151129 = Asumu?

Yeah, I had fun with 07151129 (4chan's reaction to my old theory was kind of funny) but it might end up just being the PIN to access the secure vault.

By the way, thanks for translating Ryukishi's comments over the weekend Chronotrig.

this game won't just progress chronologically

That might be interesting, just as long as episode 7 isn't like Lost.

[Renall]

Originally Posted by Ssol

That might be interesting, just as long as episode 7 isn't like Lost.

Maybe they'll miss the plane and spend the whole episode trying to get back to the island.

Let's look at this a different way: What if George's displayed motive for going to the mansion is not true? The game suggests he's looking for Shannon (dead or alive). It's certainly possible that's what he was doing (although we should be careful as to why, it may not have been to mourn), but what if it wasn't? What other reason would he have to go to the mansion? If he was the one who wrote the numbers, why would he do it? If he wasn't the one, were the numbers written before or after he entered the parlor and was killed? In other words, consider the following possibilities:

• The numbers were always there and were overlooked (unlikely).
• The numbers were there when George arrived at the mansion (did this lure him inside?).
• The numbers were put there after George died.

If any of these are true, how does it change the possible recipient?