Bush/Kerry: Who Won?

[Green²]

Bush looked like a child getting scolded by his daddy! Hell, not even thirty minutes in and Bush looked like he wanted to leave the debate.

And foreign policy was supposed to be Bush's strong suit?

[Pabs]

Originally Posted by Sokar

Also, I find it funny that people assume someone from Texas automatically supports Bush.

People may not realize that George W. is from New Haven, Connecticut. He might have the ranch, etc., but he's no Texan. Texas is a really big state, and the capital, Austin, is actually one of the more liberal cities in the nation. Lots of left-wing leanings occur in Austin (it's no surprise, since it's really a college town at heart). It's people like Bush who waltz in and defend old, outdated policies and laws such as the death penalty that make us look like a bunch of right-wing toothless hicks. If you stand by the Capital building in Austin, you'll see protesters daily.

About the debate: It seems most of the news channels and major news organizations have deemed Kerry the winner of the debate. The best the more conservative organizations can call it is a draw. ^__^ That's what the Republicans get for placing their boy in front of a live television situation with no script to read from. The man just can't speak. I bet even Dan Quayle could have done a better job defending against Kerry's criticism. What a 'tard.

[mantidor]

isnt there a video stream of this somewhere? that damn CNN site ask for subscription ¬_¬ I want to see it for some laughs.

[MikoKikyo]

Kerry won.
At least in the eyes of the undecided voters. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in646712.shtml

On the other hand, Halloween says otherwise!

Oh the dilemma!

[Pabs]

Originally Posted by mantidor

isnt there a video stream of this somewhere? that damn CNN site ask for subscription ¬_¬ I want to see it for some laughs.

As soon as I see a bittorrent for it, I'll post it ^_^

UPDATE! ! ! A good buddy in IRC found this text version: http://wikisource.org/wiki/2004_U.S....-_September_30
But it obviously doesn't illustrate how befuddled Dubbya was when attempting to rebut Kerry's criticism.

[Ambience Blue]

Originally Posted by Pabs

People may not realize that George W. is from New Haven, Connecticut. He might have the ranch, etc., but he's no Texan. Texas is a really big state, and the capital, Austin, is actually one of the more liberal cities in the nation. Lots of left-wing leanings occur in Austin (it's no surprise, since it's really a college town at heart). It's people like Bush who waltz in and defend old, outdated policies and laws such as the death penalty that make us look like a bunch of right-wing toothless hicks. If you stand by the Capital building in Austin, you'll see protesters daily.

Ouch. Here in New Haven, we prefer not to remember such unsavory ppl who graduated from our school >.< I have to look at a picture of W and Daddy Bush every day in Commons (which is probably why I don't eat there ) Conversely to Pab's Texas, here in New Haven, everyone is ridiculously liberal, but the miniscule number of conservatives who graduated here go on to take over governmnet . Ironically, I missed the debate b/c I was studying for a huge chem midterm, but the majoirty of my classmates who saw it tell me Bush got destroyed. The little clip I did see consisted of Dubya doing his usual beating around the bush (no pun intended). Point Kerry.

[Sanjuronord]

I'm already voting for Kerry so I'm fairly biased but...

I think Kerry pretty well obviously won that debate, Bush was obviously "off" on his responses. He tended to dodge questions alot and rather than state his own stance he just attacked Kerry, playing the flip-flop card over and over which really probably didn't do much for him. Kerry seemed pretty solid on his defense of his stance on the war and his vote to allow it. Bush lost major points when he brought up that damn missile defense shield crap again too. Just when you think a dumb idea is dead, somebody has to go start sprouting crap again. Thought it seemed stupid when Bush kept responding to alegations by saying that they'd spent "x" amount of money on it. Y'know like that means anything if it didn't work.

I so wanted to see Kerry take some jabs at Bush though:
Bush:"I admire the fact that he served for 20 years in the Senate. Although I'm not so sure I admire the record."
Kerry:"Can't say I admire your four years of bullshit..."
Bush:"I won't hold it against him that he went to Yale. " (Bush majored in History w/ a C average)
Kerry:"I won't hold it against him that his dad bought him into Yale." (Kerry majored in Political Science)
Kudos to Bush for not saying anything about Vietnam or think Kerry may have nailed him on that one.

"Actually he forgot about Poland." Oh yes, how could we forget the incredible might of Poland in the war on terror? Wait weren't there news stories about Spain and Poland wanting to pull out of Iraq? Bush didn't mention the dolphins though! Our trained dolphins were forgotten, what about thier contributions? How about Morocco's land mine detonating monkeys(though I don't think they ever got to to go to Iraq...)?

[7thMethuselah]

Living in Europe, I obviously get an incomplete view on both candidates and their policies, so i was really interested in the debate. i saw only a part of it since it was being broadcasted at 2 am - 4 am and I had to go to work at 8

The first thing I'd like to point out is : many people mentioned that Bush spoke with long pauses and that makes him look bad. I think we should remember that the ability to speak in public isn't the one that really matters, it's the ability to lead the country which is important!.
So I say, let him pause and stutter, let him make sometimes ankward sentences, but let us debate his opinions and views rather than looks.

The one thing I noticed during the debate is that neither Bush nor Kerry really has any long term plans for Iraq (Personally I think the invasion was a bad idea). Kerry seems to want to draw out the troops as soon as possible, this is about the worst thing you can do at this moment. If the US troops leave now, Iraq will fall to civil war and destabalise the entire region, which will lead to an economic disaster all over the world due to oil availability being seriously threatened.
A good point from Kerry was to get the UN involved. At least they may still have some credibility left with the Iraqi people. The UN combined with US troops in the background might be able to turn the situation around.

Another issue mentioned is that the war on terrorism wasn't supposed to be fought in Iraq. Kerry surely has a point there, however at the current time, this is no longer the case, Iraq is crammed with terrorists.

There was only one thing that did scare me, Bush never denied that he wouldn't invade another country pre-emptively, I hope he doesn't start another war.

Bush or Kerry, for me it's a hard choice, I don't really like Bush, but I don't trust Kerry at all, he changes his opinions on any subject to the position that gets more votes. With Bush we know what to expect, with Kerry.... who knows what he'll do, he keeps switching sides faster than the weather .

PS

"Actually he forgot about Poland." Oh yes, how could we forget the incredible might of Poland in the war on terror? Wait weren't there news stories about Spain and Poland wanting to pull out of Iraq?

It may seem as a stupid remark, but poland is one of the biggest supporters of the US here in Europe, and these nations are really sensitive about their help being appreciated or not. It's not about poland doing alot or not, it's about appreciating their help. If Kerry wants to draw in a large coalition to help in Iraq he should be very carefull NOT to insult these nations by forgetting them in important matters. Ignoring a nation which helps is no good start to build an international coalition. And like it or not, in the Afghanistan war Bush was able to get most of the world behind him, this is an amazing achievement which I am not certain many people can realise.

About Spain : Madrid got bombed 3 days before national elections (200 ppl died that day ) Due to this bombing the people in Spain suddenly changed their votes to a party which was against the war, while before the bombing the pro-US faction was in lead. So terrorism right before an election is what caused spain to drop out, not Bush .

[StoneColdCrazy]

Originally Posted by PriestessKikyo

Kerry won.
At least in the eyes of the undecided voters.

That might be the best Kerry could hope for. If he can convince those who don't yet have a leaning either way he can turn tip the balance in his direction. There's only a certain number of people whos minds he's going to change because, for some reason, there are always voters who will stick with a particular political party no matter what it does; voters that are, essentially, unwinnable.

SCC

[RavenChild]

kerry might have won the debate but bush will win the election. i was really surprised when kerry came out not looking like some ripe pumpkin. i wonder how he got the orange out of his face. anyways, when it comes to policy, bush made the mistake of going into iraq, but he at least continued on as best as situations could allow and didn't change his views in the middle of his term in office. that has to be the biggest reason for me not wanting kerry to win, i do not know what i am going to get if he goes into office.

[xargon]

about this debate, anyone know where I can find the script to it?
I googled for it for a while but found nothing. I just wanna read thru it, anyone know where I can find it?

[Sokar]

Originally Posted by xargon

about this debate, anyone know where I can find the script to it?
I googled for it for a while but found nothing. I just wanna read thru it, anyone know where I can find it?

www.nytimes.com
Need to register, it's free, you can see the entire debate in text and in video form, right now it's on the right most column.

[xargon]

Originally Posted by Sokar

www.nytimes.com
Need to register, it's free, you can see the entire debate in text and in video form, right now it's on the right most column.

thax a lot.

[luckme10]

Where was Nader? I thought he was running as well.

[OutPhase]

Originally Posted by luckme10

Where was Nader? I thought he was running as well.

He is. I think i's unfair that Nader doesn't even get noticed. I feel sorry for him. He's probably more qualified than Bush and Kerry, but then again is that really saying much for man whose existance is rarely if even noticed?

[indicatoto101]

I was amazed with Bush's performance: he seemed to be slightly smarter than what I hear from EVERYONE! It would be hard to decide who won because both of them are losers. I haven't seen such vagueness from ANYONE in such a considerable amount of time. Like I said, both a losers, when it comes to politics...

[DekaMaster]

Anyone who votes for Bush has no right to complain about how shitty things are in the US. If you vote for him you are voting to leave things the way they are. And if you think things are fine now then you are so far beyond help how you vote won't matter anyway.

[luckme10]

Originally Posted by Razer_2mb

He is. I think i's unfair that Nader doesn't even get noticed. I feel sorry for him. He's probably more qualified than Bush and Kerry, but then again is that really saying much for man whose existance is rarely if even noticed?

it's not that he isn't noticed...its that he's purposely kept out of the election by the other 2 parties because of "broadcast time" and influence potential... damn perro..he ruined it for all independents

[STfan]

Kerry won the debate, but that doesn't mean anything. It is possible to lose a debate and win the people.

Bush makes strategic use of emotional blackmail, psychological poking of people's fears, and ad hominem. There's been a study done where people's support for Bush policies abnormally increased after being reminded of terrorism and subjected to images and/or descriptions of it. Basically, he's got a soft spot in the people in 9/11, and he knows it. He's more clever than he lets on.

I'm of the odd position that wants Kerry to win, but believes Bush will.

Oh well. The people shall speak on Election Day.

[diabolistic]

The way I saw it, Bush's primary modes of attack were dominantly flawed by his excessive use of logical fallacies, that is, his constant appeal to pity and fear, and by his non-sensical and inane anecdotes (what the HELL was up with the whole "it is not RIGHT to insult such a brave and courageous leader" crap?). Also, Bush's failure to address Kerry (or the panel's) questions led me to wonder, what the HELL was Bush writing on his sheet of paper? I'm pretty sure he was just listening to Kerry talk, copying the big words he used, such as: Weapons of Mass Destruction, Proliferation, and The.

Kerry made many strong points, though his obvious hubris toward's Bush's inadequacies marred his overall performance. You could see Kerry trying to stiffle his laughter throughout the entire debate. Though, I must give Kerry kudos for his response when asked what he thought of his opponent. While Bush drivelled more nonsense about his daughters, Kerry responded with "it is none of my business," which I thought was the more appropriate answer.

long story short..

Kerry: Bush is a real big idiot, I've got numbers and big words to backup my prepositions. See here? over 50 billion zillion dollars were lost in the time you started this war on terror, while we could have spent that money on providing shelter and education to orphans or something. I'm not saying that the war is bad, but the way you are going about with the war is incomprehensibly dumb, you stupid stupid man. *smirk smirk*

Bush: Ya, uhhhhhh well the lady in New Hampshire, who lost her uhhhhhhhh son in the war against those Evil Terrorists, told me after uhhhhhhhh we prayed and laughed and had some delicious lemon pie uhhhhhhhhhh that was bought from the all-american store down on uhhhhhhhh Freedom Street, that she supported my uhhhhhhhhh war. Also, I will uhhh repeat your big words in hopes that I appear like I know what I'm babbling about. MY uhhhhhhh CONVICTIONS ARE STRONG!