Macross Frontier - Episode 05 Discussion / Poll

[SuperKnuckles]

Okay, I don't want to create some crazy flamewars about Gundam, but I feel the way Frontier is made is very similar to the way Gundam Seed was. Basically a retelling of the conventions (though the actual stories and their detail are obviously different) and being based in proto-meme stages of anime. Seed and Frontier gives me the same kind of weird dejavu vibes. And to make this crystal clear, I loved both efforts in how they were going about with the 'retelling' aspect without feeling too copied-on.

That said, I think the focus on the actual battles to romance tends to fluctuate in Macross shows (unless it's something like M7 where you go long stretches without much meaningful mecha fight). Like every two or three episodes, you get that crucial fight and so forth.

As for the journey to the center of the galaxy (obviously can't be the "universe". No ships can travel that far), I think that is just a vague goal. Possibly a mantra for the masses.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Macross 7, Macross 5, Megaroad 13 and Megaroad 1's courses were also coreward.

Who knows maybe statistically the core regions have more habitable planets.

[Kenu]

Very strong SDF Macross undertones for the whole series thus far.. except the fan service.. wow.. pretty hot in the locker.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

Macross 7, Macross 5, Megaroad 13 and Megaroad 1's courses were also coreward.

Who knows maybe statistically the core regions have more habitable planets.

Wouldn't they have a problem with the density of stars? Though that way lies more stars (the ones in our arms, coreward of us, and the whole other arm). I guess that more stars, more ships makes sense.

[CaptGloval]

Originally Posted by Maes Hughes

2: Is 'Fold' just a posh word for warping in the Macross universe?

Yup. I think it refers to bending space-time such that the closest distance between two points is ... nothing.

[Onizuka-GTO]

you are putting two points from two different physical locations into one point, like a flat sheet of paper, you "fold" from one point to another.

[Sinestra]

Or you could say travel to any point in space without actually moving.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

Okay, I don't want to create some crazy flamewars about Gundam, but I feel the way Frontier is made is very similar to the way Gundam Seed was. Basically a retelling of the conventions (though the actual stories and their detail are obviously different) and being based in proto-meme stages of anime. Seed and Frontier gives me the same kind of weird dejavu vibes. And to make this crystal clear, I loved both efforts in how they were going about with the 'retelling' aspect without feeling too copied-on.

There is quite a bit of difference from the approach to Seed. There, it was a retelling of Mobile Suit Gundam, while Macross Frontier is trying to recapture some of the tone and feel of SDF Macross while telling a significantly different (and different kind of) story. Two of the glaring dissimilarities are that the Vajra are the kind of mysterious alien race that got popularized in mecha shows post-Evangelion, and that the goal of SDF-1 was extremely different from that of the Frontier fleet. Even on a character level, the goals, motivations, and challenges are quite different for our leads.

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

As for the journey to the center of the galaxy (obviously can't be the "universe". No ships can travel that far), I think that is just a vague goal. Possibly a mantra for the masses.

The illustrations in the narration clearly show that they're headed towards the galactic center. If there's some sort of greater goal, we'll learn more about it shortly.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Wouldn't they have a problem with the density of stars? Though that way lies more stars (the ones in our arms, coreward of us, and the whole other arm). I guess that more stars, more ships makes sense.

Of the four major directions, the majority of stars lie coreward, with much smaller numbers spinward and anti-spinward, the smallest numbers lie rimward to Earth. The Macross fleets have enormous ranges, so this factor may play a bigger role in the choice of navigation directions everything else being equal.

Originally Posted by CaptGloval

Yup. I think it refers to bending space-time such that the closest distance between two points is ... nothing.

I just want to add that the fold travel time isn't instantaneous. In addition, there appear to be different types of folding, and the ones used by the humans in the Macross Plus era on down seem to be the fastest. Note also that even with Macross Frontier's lacksidasical pace, it has still managed to cover tens of thousands of light years in a period between twelve years and a couple of decades (probably closer to the former). Not accounting for the fact that they spend the vast majority of their time in real space, this would mean a minimum sustained speed of several tens of thousand times the speed of light.

[Kaoru Chujo]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

Macross 7, Macross 5, Megaroad 13 and Megaroad 1's courses were also coreward. Who knows maybe statistically the core regions have more habitable planets.

There are many more stars toward the core, so the possibility of inhabited planets rises. We live about 2/3 of the way out, in a comparatively less dense spiral arm area. But if you get too close to the core, I believe there are so many stars that the radiation would kill any life. And if you get even closer, there is almost certainly a black hole at the very core that sucks anything close to it right in.

[Wesley84]

You know what's really great about this series? The range of motion given to the characters. It's not just facial expressions. Their mannerisms, their entire bodies are used when expressing their state of being, whether it's relaxed, excited, angry, every character is given a mood, and what's really great is that they all remain individuals even while sharing the same screen.

You can say what you want about the fight choregraphy, but watching Sheryl casually sitting down in the train with her feet dangling out in front of her is not something you see happen everyday in anime. It's really amazing, and whomever is responsible for making the characters appear so human deserves an award.

Along with whomever had the idea of Sheryl using a giant pair of panties to sponteaously write songs on. That was genius on so many levels. A very nice touch.

P.S. I quite liked the Hippocows. And Zentradi farmers? Fuck yeah!

P.P.S. Space dolphins? The Vajra are space dolphins?

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

P.P.S. Space dolphins? The Vajra are space dolphins?

Well there already space whales. Nekki Basara sang to them.

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

Well there already space whales. Nekki Basara sang to them.

He must have been a bad influence.

[SuperKnuckles]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

There is quite a bit of difference from the approach to Seed. There, it was a retelling of Mobile Suit Gundam, while Macross Frontier is trying to recapture some of the tone and feel of SDF Macross while telling a significantly different (and different kind of) story. Two of the glaring dissimilarities are that the Vajra are the kind of mysterious alien race that got popularized in mecha shows post-Evangelion, and that the goal of SDF-1 was extremely different from that of the Frontier fleet. Even on a character level, the goals, motivations, and challenges are quite different for our leads.

I don't see why that is much different from what I ascertained before. Seed, I do agree is more loyal to its original story and motivations, but I think there's some similarities to Hikaru and Alto (born to fly, joining the militaristic effort due to desire to protect others). I do hope the earlier feelings of similarities will simply lead to a divergence later on. Though I won't mind if the similarities persist.

As for the Vajra, maybe it'll lead back to the whole aspect of a superior alien race controlling them and it may lead back to the feeling of the older Macross shows. I get a lot of Starship Troopers vibe from the show, especially if it's shown that the insect race is in fact... run by space faring insects. That and the whole home-estrangement of Alto that is also feels very similar.

I just want to add that the fold travel time isn't instantaneous. In addition, there appear to be different types of folding, and the ones used by the humans in the Macross Plus era on down seem to be the fastest. Note also that even with Macross Frontier's lacksidasical pace, it has still managed to cover tens of thousands of light years in a period between twelve years and a couple of decades (probably closer to the former). Not accounting for the fact that they spend the vast majority of their time in real space, this would mean a minimum sustained speed of several tens of thousand times the speed of light.

I would think that's mostly due to the fact that they can't simply fold all the time. I mean, it'd surely be easier if it was like in Star Wars or Star Trek where they could actually do it instantaneously or constantly keep it up for extremely long voyages. Though actually, even the Trek warp drives were dependent on how long the energy could hold up in its engines.

And space whales? GUNDAM CONNECTION?

[Westlo]

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

I don't see why that is much different from what I ascertained before.

It's actually quite different, while Frontier is trying to capture the spirit of the original while including a lot of familiar scenes, SEED was just flat out mimicking MSG for the first 15-17 episodes and doing a bad job of it, like the Artemis episode.

[SuperKnuckles]

Originally Posted by Westlo

It's actually quite different, while Frontier is trying to capture the spirit of the original while including a lot of familiar scenes, SEED was just flat out mimicking MSG for the first 15-17 episodes and doing a bad job of it, like the Artemis episode.

Um. I have absolutely no complaint with the way Seed did it. Also, I still don't see why Frontier is all that different from the source material yet. The overall feel isn't too different that's all I'm saying. And you don't need to point out to me how different the stories are. I already said that before. And yes, I know that Seed was remake, etc etc. I guess I should have put more emphasis on how I feel the shows have tons of *similarities* in feel. Not in how they're actually made or in their specific plot points. Though the said plot points are very similar. I'm not disputing that Frontier is less deviant from the source material because it is. It's not a remake but a sequel. Also I already mentioned that I'm not pitting one against the other.

[ZODDGUTS]

Originally Posted by Westlo

It's actually quite different, while Frontier is trying to capture the spirit of the original while including a lot of familiar scenes, SEED was just flat out mimicking MSG for the first 15-17 episodes and doing a bad job of it, like the Artemis episode.

Yeah which is why I was pretty much bored watching the first half that series it got better once it started doing it's own thing and not being a carbon copy of the original MSG series.

Anyways enjoyed this episode seems like Sheryl recognizes Ranka as a potential rival singing wise.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Also Macross Frontier is emphasizing that wagon train to the stars feel of Macross.

Inclusion of Zentradi islands where miclones can mingle too is briliant.

A sense of a community better that Macross 7.

Macross Frontier feels more of a country in space than a city in a ship.

[Kikaifan]

Multiscale shopping centers are lol.

Sheryl is hotness. All the junk fanservice anime that think that bigger tits and tighter clothing are always better need to learn a lesson.

I want to see that Officer's Battlepod from the opening in action yes please.

[hai_san]

Finally watch the shinsen sub another from gattai.

I didnt to post yet because i didnt want to base my judgement by "speed" subs which sometime lack accurate translations. (but man waiting for a whole week for it is...why the hell isnt there like 5 groups subbing it instandly after 10h when the ep aired in japan, like a certain another rather popular serie in this forum..)

Firstly, what else then to say it was a fantastic ep. There was no fighting and storywise not much happend but i dont feel that is was a filler ep at all. We get to know Sheryl better, she is not only "professional" driven egocentric diva but also a normal girl who has her "soft" spots (no intended ambiguities here ), she is playful and likes to neck Alto alot, but when needed she turns into diva mode eg when she has inspiration for a new song. I like stong and self confidence women, like Sheryl and Klein both look at each others agreeing i was thinking Alto got wtf pwned by them.

What i find kinda weird was how Alto making a serious face when he just ask Sheryl there is place he wanted to take her(when it only turned out to be the zentradi area)...

As for Ranka, did anyone watch the scene/pics at 19:04-19:10, my moe scale just went off, did she even wear underwear because seeing how her shirt flipped...

So Ranka is a anima spirit singer(seeing how the vajira reacted by her song), and perhaps Sheryl will composit her a song that will rock the universe? e.g DYRL Misa found the song and gave it to Minmay to sing. Will it be the song she just got inspired in this ep?

Spoiler for preview:

we will get to see the battleship which was shown in battlemode form in OP?

ps: so we do know now that Ozma and Cath were a pair before, so we have at least 2 love triangle in this macross serie

[SuperKnuckles]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

Also Macross Frontier is emphasizing that wagon train to the stars feel of Macross.

Inclusion of Zentradi islands where miclones can mingle too is briliant.

A sense of a community better that Macross 7.

Macross Frontier feels more of a country in space than a city in a ship.

Really? I don't see much of a difference from M7 to Frontier in its facilities for the most part. If it may feel less like a community in M7, it's because we've been only following rock stars all the time. Not the most cozy of jobs.

Originally Posted by ZODDGUTS

Yeah which is why I was pretty much bored watching the first half that series it got better once it started doing it's own thing and not being a carbon copy of the original MSG series.

The entire first half? That's stretching it a bit, though the structure, I admit was entirely the same. But I actually thought it did some things better than even MSG in terms of exposition. Frontier to me, is the same thing. It has the overall same feel and styling of the old Macross show, but I think they are getting around to explaining the infrastructure a bit better. We still haven't got a proper talk-over about SMS and other unexplained things, but I'm sure they'll get around to it. I think things are going pretty well with the speculated three singing divas and a whole slew of background characters compared to Macross and M7. I still am waiting for that Maximilian ace archetype if there isn't one in SMS already.

Anyways enjoyed this episode seems like Sheryl recognizes Ranka as a potential rival singing wise.

Maybe a rival and a protégé all the same. If you think about it, Ranka is only doing this entirely because of Sheryl. Without her, there's no Ranka the singer.

Originally Posted by hai_san

Finally watch the shinsen sub another from gattai.

I didnt to post yet because i didnt want to base my judgement by "speed" subs which sometime lack accurate translations. (but man waiting for a whole week for it is...why the hell isnt there like 5 groups subbing it instandly after 10h when the ep aired in japan, like a certain another rather popular serie in this forum..)

Oh man. Ouch. I usually think badly of speed subbers skimping things a lot, but I think Gattai is quality enough to not be considered lazy speed subbers. Also, I think Shinsen takes a bit too long sometimes.