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View Poll Results: Critique of Episode 09
10 out of 10: Near Perfect... 113 61.08%
9 out of 10 : Excellent... 44 23.78%
8 out of 10 : Very Good... 13 7.03%
7 out of 10 : Good... 7 3.78%
6 out of 10 : Average... 4 2.16%
5 out of 10 : Below Average... 1 0.54%
4 out of 10 : Poor... 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad... 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad... 1 0.54%
1 out of 10: Torturous... 2 1.08%
Voters: 185. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-09-03, 13:25   Link #441
Dark Wing
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On the topic of dual wield it makes since to me that Kirito unlocked this ability after clocking a ton of hours using a one handed sword style. While other had played it safe by adopting builds with two handed weapons and shilds Kirito stayed with the same defult style since since the start of the game which is why no one has seen it before.
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Old 2012-09-03, 13:42   Link #442
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by ronelm2000 View Post
Then... the only thing left to do is to equip Dark Repulser as main weapon... Put a couple of white cloaks here and there.... add a white t-shirt, red scabbard...hmm....

...wait... what do you mean I have no illustrators to get it done? TT.TT
Here, Kirito in KoB uniform. (fanart, not spoiler.)

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Originally Posted by csuree View Post
at level 99 we say there will remain 5000.....i think at level 99 most if not all those 5000 will go to the last boss to beat it. so the game needs a cap or the final boss would be the easiest...and then all those players would curse themselves for not joining the front lines sooner.
Doesn't matter. They can only fight the boss 48 at a time, and most players would die from random mobs before reaching it anyway.
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Old 2012-09-03, 13:42   Link #443
EnOfEridu
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Originally Posted by Dark Wing View Post
On the topic of dual wield it makes since to me that Kirito unlocked this ability after clocking a ton of hours using a one handed sword style. While other had played it safe by adopting builds with two handed weapons and shilds Kirito stayed with the same defult style since since the start of the game which is why no one has seen it before.
But what about Asuna? She also uses a one-handed style because of the speed, and it's logical to suppose she has the sameish level as Kirito. I mean, she has some fighting, not only cooking.

And, if my memory serves correct, also Klein seems to be a one-handed wielder, since he has gone the traditional japanese style (at least in the choice of a katana + clothing).


Unless Kirito has spend about 21.900 hours (about 80% of the two years) leveling. He seems to be "that" obsessed.

Last edited by EnOfEridu; 2012-09-03 at 16:06. Reason: As pointed below, katanas are usually two handed.
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Old 2012-09-03, 14:21   Link #444
Dark Wing
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Originally Posted by EnOfEridu View Post
But what about Asuna? She also uses a one-handed style because of the speed, and it's logical to suppose she has the sameish level as Kirito. I mean, she has some fighting, not only cooking.

And, if my memory serves correct, also Klein seems to be a one-handed wielder, since he has gone the traditional japanese style (at least in the choice of a katana + clothing).

Unless Kirito has spend about 21.900 hours (about 80% of the two years) leveling. He seems to be "that" obsessed.
If memory serves the the skills you unlock depends on type of weapon you use.

Klein used curved blades in order to use katanas and their skils


Asuna used fencing weapons because of the extra added bonus of speed increase.

So yes the only explaination would be that Kirito used the same defult style and not out of obsession but because that's what worked best for him.
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Old 2012-09-03, 14:30   Link #445
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Originally Posted by Dark Wing View Post
If memory serves the the skills you unlock depends on type of weapon you use.

Klein used curved blades in order to use katanas and their skils


Asuna used fencing weapons because of the extra added bonus of speed increase.

So yes the only explaination would be that Kirito used the same defult style and not out of obsession but because that's what worked best for him.
But what if there were a few more players like Kirito? Playing with only 1 sword, like his ? How would they decide which one to give the skill first? The one who spent more time lvling up? ( Like...5 hours more than the others? ) That would be kind of unfair, since all of them gave their best to survive with only 1 sword...
And what if they had spent nearly the same time lvling up, and it was only a few minutes or seconds of delay between them?

Edit: As for me I'd go either with : Only the one with the highest reaction, since it's harder than to play with only 1 sword, I mean, you'll be the ONLY ONE with that ammount of reaction, right?
Or : It could be due to going solo with only 1 sword for so long? If you meant this, then I'm sorry, and I would kind of agree with you.

Edit 2: Being the one with the highest reaction, what I mean is, a reaction like the system, or going even further than what the system is able to do.

Last edited by Karakuri; 2012-09-03 at 14:41.
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Old 2012-09-03, 14:57   Link #446
Maxtro
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Anybody find it odd that there are a bunch of old guys playing this game?

There is also a very small number of teenagers, even though they are the majority of gamers in MMO. Unless they were the ones who died first
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Old 2012-09-03, 15:00   Link #447
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Originally Posted by Maxtro View Post
Anybody find it odd that there are a bunch of old guys playing this game?
Yeah, I do find that a bit odd. I mean, that entire army division lead by the insanely desperate Commander were all older guys from what I could tell.

I think that SAO wants to mirror an actual Tolkien-esque Fantasy story to some degree, so you get a lot of middle-aged soldiers/knights/warriors since you tend to get them a lot in those sorts of Fantasy stories.
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Old 2012-09-03, 15:01   Link #448
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There are actually way more older gamers in real life than most people expect, not to mention the fact that this takes place in the future, when all the young gamers of today will be older.
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Old 2012-09-03, 15:05   Link #449
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Originally Posted by Karakuri View Post
Well, what do you think about what I said before? Who would you like to win? Kirito or Heathcliff?
I have no real in vestment in the outcome eitherway. I won't be surprised of Heathcliff wins, If he's challenging Kirito despite knowing about his Unique skill then he obviously has something up he's sleeve. I' m guessing he has a Unique skill too since it's probably the only way a non-monster enemy can defeat Kirito in a fair fight now.

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Originally Posted by Rakshasa View Post
It is clever because there are many other possible reasons for his actions, the odd one-handed sword style can be related to how he needs to fight as a solo guy, the extra sword could be backup as we find out things can break.

Actually, that Kirito got the dual-wielding skill could be due to the fact that he has been using the unusual one-handed sword style, which reverses the causality link.
I'm only basing the possibilities on what we know about Kirito and mechanics that been introduced so far to arrive at the most likely outcome. Using your example, if Kirito really had a unique way of fighting with a one-handed sword style that differed from everyone else, someone would have mentioned it by now or we would have been given sort of hint. We've seen Kirito fight plenty of times and this hasn't been the case unlike how the Dual Blades reveal was built up with the focus on Dark Repulser and Elucidator.

Quote:
Ambiguity in foreshadowing is important, and making claims about how obvious the foreshadowing is post-facto makes you look like someone who doesn't appreciate complexity.
It's not my intent to avoid complexity. I'm merely using a process of elimination going by what we know about items in SAO to predict why the story would pay special attention to this particular sword above anyother while side-stepping over redundancy. I'm also looking at things from a storytelling "point of view" and introducing Dark Repulser just so it can be a mere "back up" weapon has no value other than saying he has another extra sword among hundreds he carries, not to mention it's concept that already been known at that point so it tell us nothing new. Instead looking a Kirito's actions during that episode suggested he had another purpose in mind and whatever it is had a higher chance of being something hasn't come up in the show yet.

So there's still some ambiguity here, just a lot less since we know much more about SAO now.

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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I have no major bones of contention with this episode. On the whole sexism discussion, I don't think that Asuna was portrayed as weak. In fact, she was portrayed as stronger than 95% or more of the guys there, imo. It's just that Kirito was portrayed, once again, as the ultimate, badass protagonist. But this is a case of Kirito overshadowing everybody, not just Asuna.

So I will admit that Kirito's overall portrayal is bordering on "too good/strong for his own good as a character" right now, which is the main thing that kept my rating for this episode down to a 9 instead of a 10.
I'm already used to Kirito overshadowing everyone for whatever reason, I just wish Asuna and Klein got a little more time to shine. Well, there is still 15 episodes left so hope to see that.

Last edited by Iron Maw; 2012-09-03 at 15:25.
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Old 2012-09-03, 15:05   Link #450
Karakuri
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I don't think that's odd...When I played Metin2 most of my guild members were 30-ish, 40-ish years old...only like...30% were 20-ish years old and 15-ish...
Not to mention, this game was just released, older people can pay the game for themselves, children can not, unless they get some payment for helping in the house or w.e.
But I honestly don't think it's odd...Probably 50% of the times you see a top player it's someone who is like 30 years old or 25-29?
I remember the leader of a good friend of mine was the TOP Character of his server ( I got to say...the class he played was OP, so yeah...kind of normal ) and he was, about 35 years old, IIRC. But of course, older people have the highest chances of going further to the top, they can pay for the game as much as they want every month, some children can not behave the same way, since the money isn't theirs, but their parents'.
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Old 2012-09-03, 15:12   Link #451
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Just a quick google search for "mmo age demographics" shows a study that says 25% of MMO gamers are teenagers, 50% have full time jobs, 36% are married, and 22% have children. And apparently 40% are female. The average age is 26.

So there you go.
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Old 2012-09-03, 15:16   Link #452
Dark Wing
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@Karakuri

This is a good question but since we don't know the full indepth SAO game mechanics all we can do is find our own explanations through our own experience with video games. So bare with ne because most of this is half guessing.

While its true that Kirito may not be the only one still using the one handed sword style. How many of them are at Kirito's level and still using it?

Asuna said in this very episode that many players give up on the defult sword style of one hand as soon as the unlock stronger weapons yet Kirito is the only one she sees in the higher levels still using it. Now I don't think Kirito knew he'd get this dual wield skill as a result.

Also another thing to note is that while everyone has been in this game for a couple of years now and think they have everything figured out there are bound to be a few things over looked.

Oh I thought you ment reaction like agility or dex but your talking about something like Neo from the matrix?
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Old 2012-09-03, 15:24   Link #453
Karakuri
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@Karakuri

This is a good question but since we don't know the full indepth SAO game mechanics all we can do is find our own explanations through our own experience with video games. So bare with ne because most of this is half guessing.

While its true that Kirito may not be the only one still using the one handed sword style. How many of them are at Kirito's level and still using it?

Asuna said in this very episode that many players give up on the defult sword style of one hand as soon as the unlock stronger weapons yet Kirito is the only one she sees in the higher levels still using it. Now I don't think Kirito knew he'd get this dual wield skill as a result.

Also another thing to note is that while everyone has been in this game for a couple of years now and think they have everything figured out there are bound to be a few things over looked.

Oh I thought you ment reaction like agility or dex but your talking about something like Neo from the matrix?
Lol, it's not like Matrix...or maybe it is, I dunno, I only watched a few minutes of that movie, sorry, I'm not such a big fan of it xD
What I mean by reaction is: Going at the same speed the system goes, or surpass it. Something amongst those lines, like...how could I say it...the System has always a maximum number of speed it can handle, right? Like, in every game you always have a maximum of attack speed, movement speed, criticals, w.e...
Kirito could reach its maximum, which no one had ever done so far, or he could've surpassed it by any chance...even if by a tiny bit? I don't know if it's possible, just a guess...Nothing has shown this game has a cap at anything...so...I may be wrong.

Edit: Or being able to have such a high reaction that he is able to be the one controlling his skills.
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Old 2012-09-03, 15:26   Link #454
EnOfEridu
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Originally Posted by Dark Wing View Post
Now I don't think Kirito knew he'd get this dual wield skill as a result.
I guess someone said it before, but i'm pretty sure he was really surprised, and didn't even knew he got the skill until he was browsing casually his skill list and found it.

Now that i think about, i found the justification as to why he broke the sword in the episode with Liz. He had to be sure that the "dual sword parry" would work. Elucidator is so strong, making that parry would break the weaker sword and leave him helpless. So he HAD to break the first work, to test it.
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Old 2012-09-03, 15:32   Link #455
Anh_Minh
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Yeah, I do find that a bit odd. I mean, that entire army division lead by the insanely desperate Commander were all older guys from what I could tell.
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Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
There are actually way more older gamers in real life than most people expect, not to mention the fact that this takes place in the future, when all the young gamers of today will be older.
Yeah. Add to that, the Army itself may attract the older players among Aincrad, and the Army's management may, for its own reasons, have decided to send its oldest players, which would further skew the numbers.

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Originally Posted by Iron Maw View Post
I have no real in vestment in the outcome eitherway. I won't be surprised of Heathcliff wins, If he's challenging Kirito despite knowing about his Unique skill then he obviously has something up he's sleeve. I' m guessing he has a Unique skill too since it's probably the only way a non-monster enemy can defeat Kirito in a fair fight now.
Why? SAO aims to have some realism in its sword fights (by that I mean it's not purely a numbers game), and historically, dual wielding heavy swords like Kirito's hasn't been very successful. The sword-and-shield combo was generally thought superior. Of course, it also comes down to the skills of the actual players, and the Sword Skills change things, as do the circumstances of SAO. There's no fear of permanently crippling injury, and little fear of death, in a first strike duel.
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Old 2012-09-03, 15:41   Link #456
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Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
Just a quick google search for "mmo age demographics" shows a study that says 25% of MMO gamers are teenagers, 50% have full time jobs, 36% are married, and 22% have children. And apparently 40% are female. The average age is 26.

So there you go.
Indeed. Really, I'm surprised so many people cling to the "only kids would be playing videogames" stereotype.

It's 2012. Anyone that was 10 in 1980, and got into playing videogames in their teens or in college, would now be in their 40s. Anyone born in 1980 that grew up playing videogames would now be in their 30s. That's ignoring people that would have started playing in arcades in the 1970s. Not all of them are going to have dropped videogames as they got older. And that's just today, SAO starts in 2022. Those same people would now be in their 40s and 50s. Obviously it'll skew towards people in their 20s who are most likely to have both disposable time and income (out of school, unmarried or no children) but it shouldn't be a surprise that it's primarily adults in SAO.
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Old 2012-09-03, 15:48   Link #457
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Indeed. Really, I'm surprised so many people cling to the "only kids would be playing videogames" stereotype.

It's 2012. Anyone that was 10 in 1980, and got into playing videogames in their teens or in college, would now be in their 40s. Anyone born in 1980 that grew up playing videogames would now be in their 30s. That's ignoring people that would have started playing in arcades in the 1970s. Not all of them are going to have dropped videogames as they got older. And that's just today, SAO starts in 2022. Those same people would now be in their 40s and 50s. Obviously it'll skew towards people in their 20s who are most likely to have both disposable time and income (out of school, unmarried or no children) but it shouldn't be a surprise that it's primarily adults in SAO.
Well, consider also the cost of this particular system, the fact that it was brand new, exciting technology, the fact that it was limited to only 10,000 copies, and that we're talking about people who were there for the day one launch. So those factors will also skew who all will be playing the game. Indeed, combined with what you said, it's almost more surprising that there are so many kids...

Plus I can also imagine some parents who "bought the game for their kids" (in giant quotes), but "just wanted to try it out to make sure it was safe" or whatever so they could be part of the launch. Little did they know...
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Old 2012-09-03, 15:48   Link #458
Karakuri
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Just a quick google search for "mmo age demographics" shows a study that says 25% of MMO gamers are teenagers, 50% have full time jobs, 36% are married, and 22% have children. And apparently 40% are female. The average age is 26.

So there you go.
I don't want to be seen as sexist or anything, but I can't really think 40% of MMO gamers are women...they could be like, 30% or 25%, but 40%...I can't really feel like it.
I've played many MMOs and I'd only met a few girls...In Metin I've only met about 15 women out of...well...you know about 2000 + players? ( I'm not saying those girls I see are the only one that exist )
However, I do think if we put all games together, and not MMOs only, it is possible that girls are 40% of the players ( or maybe even 50% ). But in MMOs...I don't think it can really be true...not to mention those studies were about 4 years ago or 3, it may have changed drastically, so I won't say it was wrong. Neither could I say it was wrong even if it was made today. It's just me guessing, from MMO games experiences I've had...I can't help but feel there are 70% + male gamers...Maybe I'm just stupid for thinking this, but well...
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Old 2012-09-03, 15:50   Link #459
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Why? SAO aims to have some realism in its sword fights (by that I mean it's not purely a numbers game), and historically, dual wielding heavy swords like Kirito's hasn't been very successful. The sword-and-shield combo was generally thought superior. Of course, it also comes down to the skills of the actual players, and the Sword Skills change things, as do the circumstances of SAO. There's no fear of permanently crippling injury, and little fear of death, in a first strike duel.
I doubt it'll be a first strike duel. And of course, it won't be a "to the death" duel.

When duels were mentioned during the Murder Case, the example given was a "until HP drops below 50%" match.

That way, the match will last longer, allow them to observe the opponent and the outcome won't be decided just on luck.
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Old 2012-09-03, 15:51   Link #460
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Originally Posted by csuree View Post
if you were the game designer would you make it easy to beat the last boss or real hard.....

i played wow... where the bosses were stronger than the level cap....so no game designer gives the player the advantage.....so at a 100 level game the max level will always be 100.....
Floor level equates to the level of the monsters on said floor? It'd be very easy to tune monster level to be floor level +5, and raid boss to be floor level +10 (or 20, or 25), and therefore you wouldn't need to worry about a reachable level cap. You'd likely stop gaining easy XP vs. monsters 20 levels below your level, so you'd have a soft level cap...

Also, all MMO's have obsolete content. Eventually you just outlevel / outgear the old content. It's hard to imagine how a general MMO designer would setup a 'hardcore ONRY MMO'. Who'd actually spend two months gearing up before trying the first / easiest boss? Who'd spend time killing easy-prey mobs for pathetic XP rather than challenging themselves on the newest and hardest content for maximum returns?

Applying standard MMO logic to SAO is a toughie. For all we know there were gated boss fights (IE - can't unlock the 25th floor boss until one month in, can't unlock the 50th until two months in)... except it took them so long to defeat the first boss no one knew it.

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Originally Posted by csuree View Post
more and more players would come to the front line to get home as quickly as possible.....
The 5000 players who have spent nearly two years hiding in the starter city will... suddenly... decide to travel through all 99 floors, leveling slowly, to be able to take part in the Level 100 capped fight vs. the final boss? Well, that's grand, it'll only add another two-three years to their escape time.

It's more likely that the final fight vs. that level 100 boss would have one lone hero, the other 499 front line fighters having died to get him there.

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Originally Posted by EnOfEridu View Post
But what about Asuna? She also uses a one-handed style because of the speed, and it's logical to suppose she has the sameish level as Kirito.

And, if my memory serves correct, also Klein seems to be a one-handed wielder, since he has gone the traditional japanese style (at least in the choice of a katana + clothing).
I don't recall seeing many people using two rapiers... honestly. Rapier + dagger sure, but that's a lot different from using 2x 1H swords.

And Katana's are pure 2H weapons, maybe not in the way you're thinking... but they're 2H weapons all the same.

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I don't want to be seen as sexist or anything, but I can't really think 40% of MMO gamers are women...they could be like, 30% or 25%, but 40%...I can't really feel like it.
I've played many MMOs and I'd only meet a few girls...
Yeah, that's totally wrong. The average female player is not playing with a female avatar, isn't telling everyone in the world they're female, and is just like everyone else.

You'll get guild mates who are female who will speak up about it, or that rare female voice in vent... but their are a LOT of guys who play MMO's who are so desperate to spend time with a member of the fairer sex that they ruin it for everyone else. I'd totally believe those numbers.

Now they're not playing Eve Online with me, but in my FFXI guild we've got a pretty fair male/female mix.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlameSparkZ View Post
When duels were mentioned during the Murder Case, the example given was a "until HP drops below 50%" match.
In Kirito's duel vs. Asuna's stalker it was a first hit match, that ended when HP dropped below 50%.
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