Macross Delta - Episode 23 Discussion / Poll

[stray]

As far as timeline goes Space War I was 2009-2012
Macross Zero took place in 2008
Macross 7 was 2045

Speaking of Jeniuses who have names starting in 'M' we have:
Komillia Maria (2011)
Miracle (2017)
Muse (2022)
Miranda (2026)
Mylene Flare (2031)

And there's Moaramia who was adopted and I can't find a birth year for. Mirage is Miranda's daughter.
EDIT: Moa was born 2012, adopted 2018

Anyway I really, really hope its not Mao at this point... we saw her story and met her granddaughter in Frontier, and while the time frame makes a lot of sense not much else really does. It would feel incredibly shoehorned if she ends up being Lady M.

At this point I sort of wonder if we'll even meet Lady M at all... this Windmere infiltration arc seems like its going to take up the next few episodes and may even close out the series.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by stray

At this point I sort of wonder if we'll even meet Lady M at all... this Windmere infiltration arc seems like its going to take up the next few episodes and may even close out the series.

The mysterious Lady M thing has been played out so long that I've actually lost most of my interest in it. If she finally does get revealed, fine, good to know (though almost anything could easily seem lame after all this buildup ). If she never gets revealed, fine, whatever.

[Matts]

If you count side material (shrug) either Re:Fire's or some other CD's booklet said Mylene became a succesfull solo artist while Basara never returned to M7. This should be on MW forums, good luck finding it.

And yeah Sheryl was an orphan on the street eating trash, in every version. Didn't Alto see those memories when he put on the earrings? Either way it's canon. It's even in the Nyan Cli version of DC, that came out between movies and has material from both InU and the TV show.

[FlamingMangos]

So what do you guys actually think? Are we actually going towards an ending where none of the girls win? or will Mirage or Freyja win?

[Mistyclear]

Originally Posted by FlamingMangos

So what do you guys actually think? Are we actually going towards an ending where none of the girls win? or will Mirage or Freyja win?

I'm leaning more towards neither, aside from the original Macross, in the other Macross series (not including the OVA's (Plus and Zero) and movies (False Songstress and Wings of Goodbye)) there hasn't actually been a winner in the love triangles, so I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't a winner in the Delta television series.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by stray

At this point I sort of wonder if we'll even meet Lady M at all... this Windmere infiltration arc seems like its going to take up the next few episodes and may even close out the series.

Well we do see that they spent a lot of time on the Windermere leadership. And yeah, it is very likely we are resolving the show on the planet instead of them escaping to have a finale elsewhere. The final few episodes will be on the planet.

However, that doesn't rule out Lady M's involvement. One has to assume that Mikumo is the key, and what Mikumo does under the influence of the ruins would tell us what Lady M intended when she had Mikumo created.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by FlamingMangos

So what do you guys actually think? Are we actually going towards an ending where none of the girls win?

It's quite possible. We only have 3 episodes left, and I would imagine that the last episode or two will have a good deal of flashy action. They could try to shoehorn in a big romantic confession somewhere in there, but would that be in-character for Hayate, given everything he's dealing with right now? Probably not, in my view.

I'll still gladly take HayaFrey if it happens, but I'm not quite as enthused about the idea/possibility as I was a few episodes ago. I still ship HayaFrey, but my take has gone from "could be great!" to "could be pretty good". 3 episodes just isn't much time to do justice to any major romance, especially given everything else going on. Though at least HayaFrey was decently developed throughout most of the show.

Really, it could go either way. My confidence in Kawamori isn't high right now, so yeah, HayaMira is also a very real possibility.

...And I do have this horrible sinking feeling that Freyja dies in the finale, and Mirage wins by default (it's implied HayaMira become a couple in the epilogue for the finale).

[Convoy]

Anything pointing against Lynn Minmay? I acknowledge the unlikelihood of a primary character returning, but LM. Lady M. LM.

[Mistyclear]

Originally Posted by Convoy

Anything pointing against Lynn Minmay? I acknowledge the unlikelihood of a primary character returning, but LM. Lady M. LM.

Ya she disappeared along with the Megaroad-01 four years after its launch, never to be seen or heard from again, pretty sure this has already been discussed in a prior thread for Delta.

[HirouKeimou]

Originally Posted by Convoy

Anything pointing against Lynn Minmay? I acknowledge the unlikelihood of a primary character returning, but LM. Lady M. LM.

I don't believe Kawamori is as big a troll; it'd open a massive can of worms where people will demand explanations for when or how Megaroad-01 reappeared and where it's been all this time and how Minmei is leader of Chaos. (Oh yes, and Mari Iijima doesn't want anything to do with Lynn Minmei anymore so hiring a new VA...) And, of course, it'd be a whole new subplot which, considering how Delta is handling subplots till now, I'd be scared of how said subplot could end on an understandable note.

Maybe if this subplot had been answered in slow episodes like 19 and 20, I'd be inclined to accept it and move on; however, the Lady M subplot has been going on for literally 15+ episodes now and is likely something Delta will not answer. At this point, answering who is Lady M is pointless. She's not a big piece of the plot or involved in Windermere in general (from all the information given) so explaining who she is would be plopping down an unrelated plot device at the last second.

[FlamingMangos]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

(it's implied HayaMira become a couple in the epilogue for the finale).

When was this? I don't really understand what you mean.

[HirouKeimou]

Originally Posted by FlamingMangos

When was this?

Triple_R means that if Freyja dies in the finale, it'll be more than implied Hayate will (eventually) be with Mirage in the end and therefore canon.

Similar to how various fans of Ranka believed if Sheryl died in Frontier's end, Ranka would claim Alto by default.

I don't like people who root for the death of a character (because authors grow attached to their characters and killing them is like killing a real person in their eyes so it's painful enough as it is) in order to justify their own ship winning a love triangle. It's not good for either side because if he loved Girl A who dies, he's more than likely not going to care for Girl B who is alive until he has mourned for Girl A and all he now knows he'll never have with her (especially if the series itself built up said relationship/emotions). Girl B will be sympathetic for a while; however, she'll eventually realize there is no love in their relationship and move on if he's in his depression for a long period of time. Depending on Girl B's involvement in their friendship will determine if he'll even view her presence as comfort or a reminder of his lost loved one. Plus, in my opinion, I don't believe a love built on a deathbed of a prior lover could last very long...

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by FlamingMangos

When was this? I don't really understand what you mean.

HirouKeimou basically gets it. Thanks HK!

Anyway, it's just part of my "deep sinking feeling" speculation. Just a gut feeling. A feeling that they might go for self-sacrificing hero Freyja, becoming Windermere's legendary hero in death, and humbling her overly proud people by how they were saved by one of their own, but one of their own that their leadership had harshly treated and sentenced to death. Can you imagine how the Aerial Knights would feel if Roid's machinations brought their world to near-obliteration and then Freyja had to give her life to save her people with the ultimate song to sooth Mikumo?

Then to ensure as happy an ending as possible, we get a scene post-Freyja death that strongly implies that Hayate/Mirage became a couple (or they might even go beyond implying it).

Like... maybe you'd have a scene of Hayate/Mirage living in a house together, and it's pretty obvious they're a couple.

[HirouKeimou]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

HirouKeimou basically gets it. Thanks HK!

You're welcome.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Then to ensure as happy an ending as possible, we get a scene post-Freyja death that strongly implies that Hayate/Mirage became a couple (or they might even go beyond implying it).

Like... maybe you'd have a scene of Hayate/Mirage living in a house together, and it's pretty obvious they're a couple.

Again, I don't really believe I'd consider this a happy ending because it's like I used in my example prior: Freyja who he is in love with dies, Hayate is in mourning because he loved her and is now realizing all he'll never have with her, and Mirage will eventually either move on or accept her role as his rebound and/or replacement for Freyja. Plus, if Hayate confesses love to Freyja prior to her demise, how in the world could one epilogue answer how Hayate and Mirage fell in love once Freyja dies? In this speculation (or theorizing), he doesn't love Mirage romantically and choose to settle down with her in the end, which is unrealistic on its own because he's only 17 and could find someone else like Freyja who spurs him into life and falls in love with romantically again in his lifetime; he doesn't need to settle for Mirage if Freyja dies. And, also, Mirage could be happier moving on with her life and falling in love with someone who will see her in a romantic light. In fact, it's the only justice I'd like to see for Mirage's character if Hayate chooses Freyja (even if Freyja dies): Mirage moving on and finding someone who really loves her. I don't like the idea of Mirage picking up the pieces of his feelings for Freyja or becoming her replacement or choosing to be with him because she loves him; I'd like for his choice to liberate Mirage of her feelings for him and she'll support him like a friend while pursuing a new relationship. It's my wish for her if she loses, really.

[Kazu-kun]

I think what makes Triple R's idea unlikely is that Mikumo would have no role besides damsel in distress/final boss in that scenario. But considering Kawamori's remarks about Mikumo and the titles for the last two episodes, I think Freyja and the others will save Mikumo in episode 25, and they all will sing together in the last episode. That arrangement makes it unlikely that anyone will sacrifice.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

I think what makes Triple R's idea unlikely is that Mikumo would have no role besides damsel in distress/final boss in that scenario. But considering Kawamori's remarks about Mikumo and the titles for the last two episodes, I think Freyja and the others will save Mikumo in episode 25, and they all will sing together in the last episode. That arrangement makes it unlikely that anyone will sacrifice.

I honestly hope you're right! Like I said, it's a "sinking feeling" speculation.

I'd rather Freyja live, and end up with Hayate.

But I will admit that I love the idea of Freyja totally humbling the Aerial Knights. These big proud "noble" men shown up by a simple caring peasant girl that they never really tried to understand or show the least amount of sympathy to (other than Cassim).