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Old 2018-07-14, 02:13   Link #41
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wandering Soul View Post
Don't know about specific laws, but just a few things wrong:
-I'm pretty sure you can't cause that kind of emotional and psychological distress to a minor.
-The Police still don't have any hard evidence he didn't since having a motive doesn't automatically mean you did the crime.
-Assuming not every cop in that precinct is corrupt and no one tampered with the evidence, someone should notice that gun is clean of Ash's DNA.
-Pretty sure you can't immediately convict a minor and send to them a state prison of all places just because the defense didn't show up.

In the end I guess you just have to hand wave all these away with the explanation "Dino's just that powerful".
I was thinking along the lines of interrogating a minor without a legal guardian or lawyer present, and showing child porn to people. And if doing it in the presence of the rape victim, in order to hurt them, isn't an aggravating circumstance, it should be.
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Old 2018-07-14, 02:25   Link #42
MeoTwister5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudedmind View Post
I was actually about to come back, and update my comment to clarify exactly this. So, thanks for that! But yes, I agree where you live does make a difference. You are more likely to see many of these types of things happening more openly in densely populated urban cities, especially the poorer areas of cities like these. But this stuff happens in the suburbs as well. It's just more covert. That's partly what the movie Get Out is about (more so in relation to racism), which takes place in suburban America.
I was under the impression that Get Out was a satire...
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Old 2018-07-14, 03:56   Link #43
Endscape
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wandering Soul View Post
Don't know about specific laws, but just a few things wrong:
-I'm pretty sure you can't cause that kind of emotional and psychological distress to a minor.
Causing emotional distress is a basic tactic in interrogations. Ash has no parents, so no one will complain about it, so that guy went ahead and did it.

Quote:
-The Police still don't have any hard evidence he didn't since having a motive doesn't automatically mean you did the crime.
Marvin just killed his friend and he was found next to the dead body. That would get him taken in for questioning anywhere.

Quote:
-Assuming not every cop in that precinct is corrupt and no one tampered with the evidence, someone should notice that gun is clean of Ash's DNA.
You're assuming other people would care enough to check. Planting evidence isn't anything hard, especially when no one is asking questions.

Quote:
-Pretty sure you can't immediately convict a minor and send to them a state prison of all places just because the defense didn't show up.
This part was odd, but we already knew the judge was dirty, and again, Ash has no one in his corner so it's easy to pull stuff like this on him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
I was thinking along the lines of interrogating a minor without a legal guardian or lawyer present, and showing child porn to people. And if doing it in the presence of the rape victim, in order to hurt them, isn't an aggravating circumstance, it should be.
Ash's seems to have no legal guardians to be bothered if they talk to him without a lawyer.

The child porn thing is bad, but as I mentioned earlier, Ash has no one willing to go to bat for him, they'll use any method possible, especially snce the cop is dirty.
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Last edited by Endscape; 2018-07-14 at 04:14.
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Old 2018-07-16, 17:56   Link #44
Cloudedmind
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
I was under the impression that Get Out was a satire...
I don't know if the use of horror would qualify his works as a satire, but the piece is definitely about racism. https://variety.com/2017/film/news/j...sm-1202604824/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
I was thinking along the lines of interrogating a minor without a legal guardian or lawyer present, and showing child porn to people. And if doing it in the presence of the rape victim, in order to hurt them, isn't an aggravating circumstance, it should be.
It is perfectly legal to question a minor without a guardian or lawyer present. https://www.cga.ct.gov/2000/rpt/2000-R-0282.htm, https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.co...-about-a-crime. The minor however also has the right to not answer, and to ask for their guardian or a lawyer. Ash doesn't appear to have a legal guardian.

This is an excerpt taken from the FindLaw website:

"What tactics can the police use when questioning a suspect?

The police are prohibited from using physical or psychological coercion when conducting police interrogations. A confession or evidence that results from coercive tactics is inadmissible at trial. The police, for example, may not use torture techniques, threats, drugging, or inhumane treatment during an interrogation. The police, however, can use lying, trickery, and other types of non-coercive methods to obtain a confession from a suspect." https://criminal.findlaw.com/crimina...rogations.html

Showing Ash his child porn rape video would or should probably fall under psychological coercion, but that would be for a Judge to decide, if Ash had ever confessed to anything, and his lawyer brought it up. But, we never see Ash ask for a lawyer, and the police are not obligated to get you one if you do not ask for one during questioning. And they can continue to question and interrogate you if you don't.
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Old 2018-07-16, 18:43   Link #45
Guardian Enzo
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Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
Ok while these were two fantastic episodes... it's really uncomfortable to watch at times.

Maybe it's just me, and hopefully I don't offend anybody, but this story feels uncomfortably sexist (homophobic?) and possibly even a bit too racist?

The second episode felt like it went pretty overboard and possibly even stereotypical with all the homosexuality it used. Homoerotic flirting between characters on opposing fronts, a fat gay pedophile rapist, cops laughing off pedophilia home videos, crybaby effeminate deuteragonist that looks puppyloved on the protagonist, all the state prison inmates want to sodomize him, etc.

I don't know. Maybe using "-ist" adjectives is not the correct term to use. A part of me believes that this probably just reflects attitudes back in the era the original was made, but it kind of feels like the author unecessarily and/or excessively highlights some possibly biased impressions of certain populations here.

(FWIW I'm a straight Asian male.)
This was actually a concern of mine, which I expressed in my post this week.

One thing homophobes have always done is equate homosexuality and pedophilia - not just the lie that one "leads" to the other, but that the two are basically interchangeable. They still peddle this nonsense. It may not have been the mangaka's intention but Marvin (and the way the others talk about him) is a very troubling character in this respect.
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Old 2018-07-19, 16:47   Link #46
Kanon
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The pace seemed slower this week. Ash's anger against Max is completely misplaced, but it's understandable given everything he went though and his current state of mind. I hope he'll be able to think more clearly later and forgive him.

And sure enough, Ash got raped.
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Old 2018-07-19, 17:58   Link #47
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Yeah, not that I don't get where Ash's anger is coming from but it is frustrating. Victims all over the place. Ash may be pissed at Max, but no doubt those that Ash's brother shot and killed have pissed family members as well.

But the tricky situation continues to escalate. Now Eiji is in his own share of trouble. Shows how pressured and reckless Ash was being as well. Put Eiji in the line of fire and he's got no one available to come to his aid.
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Old 2018-07-19, 22:43   Link #48
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Yeah, you get why Ashe is angry with Max, but you also understand that's ultimately misplaced. Ash's brother killed his own teammates and probably would have gotten himself killed if Max hadn't shot. Not to mention that it no doubt hurt Max to have to shoot his best friend.

Yikes, Eiji is in a pretty tough spot. Hopefully Shorter or some of Ash's still loyal friends can come to his aid.
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Old 2018-07-19, 23:42   Link #49
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I see Ash's first murder in the anime is Max's confidence in his writing ability. But as smart as the boy is he's very much controlled by his emotions, namely lots of rage.
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Old 2018-07-21, 07:01   Link #50
Haak
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Episode 3

How the hell did Ash fit such a huge message in a tiny capsule?


Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
Ok while these were two fantastic episodes... it's really uncomfortable to watch at times.

Maybe it's just me, and hopefully I don't offend anybody, but this story feels uncomfortably sexist (homophobic?) and possibly even a bit too racist?

The second episode felt like it went pretty overboard and possibly even stereotypical with all the homosexuality it used. Homoerotic flirting between characters on opposing fronts, a fat gay pedophile rapist, cops laughing off pedophilia home videos, crybaby effeminate deuteragonist that looks puppyloved on the protagonist, all the state prison inmates want to sodomize him, etc.

I don't know. Maybe using "-ist" adjectives is not the correct term to use. A part of me believes that this probably just reflects attitudes back in the era the original was made, but it kind of feels like the author unecessarily and/or excessively highlights some possibly biased impressions of certain populations here.

(FWIW I'm a straight Asian male.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
This was actually a concern of mine, which I expressed in my post this week.

One thing homophobes have always done is equate homosexuality and pedophilia - not just the lie that one "leads" to the other, but that the two are basically interchangeable. They still peddle this nonsense. It may not have been the mangaka's intention but Marvin (and the way the others talk about him) is a very troubling character in this respect.
Yeah, I don't think the author is doing the gay community any favours by having so many negative examples of homosexuality in this show, which completely overshadow the one example that's meant to be portrayed positively (Ash and Eiji). Then again, I'm not gay either so it could be the case of thinking to deeply about it.

I do kinda wish it wasn't so overt about the homosexuality though. Nothing against gay people but I kinda feel like there's a tonal dissonance in that this show wants to be seen as down to earth but doesn't seem to realise how outlandish it is when almost every other character just happens to be gay.
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Old 2018-07-21, 08:54   Link #51
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Haak View Post
Yeah, I don't think the author is doing the gay community any favours by having so many negative examples of homosexuality in this show, which completely overshadow the one example that's meant to be portrayed positively (Ash and Eiji). Then again, I'm not gay either so it could be the case of thinking to deeply about it.
Is that even a positive example of homosexuality? Is either of them actually gay?
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Old 2018-07-21, 09:35   Link #52
Haak
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Well I think the show implies that they're gay, but if they aren't (or if one of them isn't) then I can only conclude that this story isn't just homophobic but deliberately homophobic.

But isn't this story supposed to be fujoshi bait? That's why I lean towards them being positive example. I can't really wrap my head around a fujoshi bait story being homophoic. It's kinda like a shoujo manga where the guy is tied down to an unhealthy/dysfunctional relationship and it's up to the female lead to save him. Any relationship between the love interest and a character that isn't the female lead is automatically treated as "wrong" and ultimately dysfunctional. I feel like that's kinda what's happening here only to an absurdly extreme level involving paedophilia and rape.
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Old 2018-07-21, 15:28   Link #53
shmaster
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Well I think the show implies that they're gay, but if they aren't (or if one of them isn't) then I can only conclude that this story isn't just homophobic but deliberately homophobic.

But isn't this story supposed to be fujoshi bait? That's why I lean towards them being positive example. I can't really wrap my head around a fujoshi bait story being homophoic. It's kinda like a shoujo manga where the guy is tied down to an unhealthy/dysfunctional relationship and it's up to the female lead to save him. Any relationship between the love interest and a character that isn't the female lead is automatically treated as "wrong" and ultimately dysfunctional. I feel like that's kinda what's happening here only to an absurdly extreme level involving paedophilia and rape.
Fujos really don't think that much about things like real life homosexuality or homophobia.
Most of them are simply there for their own desires only.
Most of them are simply clueless and misinformed when it comes to real life stuff.
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Old 2018-07-21, 23:59   Link #54
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Nice to see a anime with really hard themes for a change.
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Old 2018-07-23, 11:29   Link #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
Episode 3Yeah, I don't think the author is doing the gay community any favours by having so many negative examples of homosexuality in this show, which completely overshadow the one example that's meant to be portrayed positively (Ash and Eiji). Then again, I'm not gay either so it could be the case of thinking to deeply about it.

I do kinda wish it wasn't so overt about the homosexuality though. Nothing against gay people but I kinda feel like there's a tonal dissonance in that this show wants to be seen as down to earth but doesn't seem to realise how outlandish it is when almost every other character just happens to be gay.
I'm kind of two minds with this. While I completely agree with Guardian Enzo, that the portrayal of Marvin, is problematic and cringe worthy, the way the other characters view and react to him, is sadly, not that far off from what you'd get in real life, especially during this particular time period and from the types of characters in question. These aren't exactly the types of guys who care or worry about being "PC". To them Marvin would in fact just be seen and ridiculed as a "gay pedo pervert", regardless of actual facts.

The real problem is the notion that most of these things are even examples of homosexuality, negative or other wise. Marvin was a pedophile child molester, who apparently preferred little boys. That in itself does not make him homosexual. The guys in the prison scene were just rapist, they'd likely just as soon rape women if prisons were co'ed, but they're not so they go for the next best thing, guys weaker than them, because rape is also about power, and exerting your power over someone else.
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Old 2018-07-23, 17:17   Link #56
Guardian Enzo
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Don't forget that "this time period" is now - in the anime.
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Old 2018-07-23, 17:58   Link #57
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That's true, they have technically updated the time period of the anime, but even so you can still unfortunately see similar attitudes today.
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Old 2018-07-26, 16:09   Link #58
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Anyone know where episode 4 is??
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Old 2018-07-27, 04:53   Link #59
Dop
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Amazon, but they're not telling...!
Wouldn't be the first time they've screwed up, pretty much every show I've watched on there has had late episodes, or episodes with the subs missing and not fixed for several days.
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Old 2018-07-27, 17:42   Link #60
Kanon
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Ash just can't catch a break. He's gone through so much in just three episodes. I'm surprised he didn't completely break down this time.
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