true tears (old generic discussion thread)

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by Ultenth

I think it's possible people are overthinking Shin's mom's reactions, similar to when I wanted to overthink Noe's brother and hope he was something different and a little more unique. For all we know maybe the mom is just a bitch, after all, her and Shin fight all the time about the art stuff too.

Well the thing about her being a bitch is pretty well established imo
But even if she does fight with shin all the time, considering that he is her son, I say that it is only natural. But she is also showing us how much she dislikes hiromi as well, who so far has done nothing wrong imo - she is sohwing her polite and greatful side all the time yet why should she get badly treated? I'm pretty sure that the act of taking her into the household is a one sided thing - by the father. Here I am guessing that perhaps hiromi is actually the daughter of the father's ex? That would make more sense as to why the mother dislikes hiromi as well as add a twist - saying that shin has a thing for his half sister

[Falkor]

Originally Posted by cloudninja

I doubt that Hiromi actually likes Noe's brother. She was pretending that she wanted to be Noe's friend so that she could find out more about what's going on between Noe and Shinichiro without having to ask him about it and possibly so that she could disrupt their relationship.

Hiromi rarely spoke to Shinichiro at school previously but she approached him to let him know that there were unpleasant rumors about Noe. Why would she badmouth Noe if she wanted to get to Noe's brother? Hiromi probably did'nt like seeing Noe with Shinichiro.

Noe knew that Hiromi did'nt really want to be her friend and that in fact Hiromi disliked Noe. Hiromi admitted to Shinichiro that Noe saw right through her. The only reason for Hiromi not liking Noe would be that she was jealous. If she did'nt care about Noe's relationship with Shinichiro and really did want to get to Noe's brother she would'nt dislike Noe, she would at least feel neutral or even positive towards Noe.

As for Hiromi being repressed emotionally I can understand how she could be that way. Her father is dead, there is no mention of her mother so I assume she died previously and there are no relatives who are close enough or care enough to take her in. She has had to live with Shinichiro's family where his mother seems to be borderline abusive in her attitude and treatment of Hiromi. There's probably a lot more going on but it's not like she's messed up for no reason like some of you are thinking with all the dislike shown towards her by some posters on this forum.

I don’t really see people disliking Hiromi at all, but people liking the other two heroines a little bit more.

I don’t quite understand this part. How does Noe know that Hiromi didn’t want to be her friend or that in fact Hiromi hated her? As I explained in one of my posts, jealousy is probably not her only motivation (how would you explain for example building the grave for Raigomaru; everybody seems to forget about that little detail).

As far as that rumor goes, Hiromi didn’t mention first the fact that Noe ‘assaults’ on passerby students, but if he knew her or heard the rumors about her. Shinichiro then answers with a rumor, that she e-mails people underground (this is showing Hiromi that Shinichiro doesn’t know her that much at all), and after that, she mentions the ‘bad’ rumor. As far as her intentions goes, I still believe they are within the scope of befriending her. If I remember correctly, this scene occurs right after ‘meeting’ with Noe and just before asking Shinichiro for help. I see the conversation as a way to test how much did Shinichiro know about her before ‘officially’ asking his help, and she says the bad rumor just to ‘get back’ at him for being so ‘useless’…

[mandarb916]

Originally Posted by Falkor

As I explained in one of my posts, jealousy is probably not her only motivation (how would you explain for example building the grave for Raigomaru; everybody seems to forget about that little detail).

Noe, the caretaker, regardless of whether or not it was appropriate, made the initial grave as being the chicken coup. Hiromi moving that around because Hiromi thought her own idea was better, even though she wasn't the caretaker, is borderline harassment and rather screwed up, all things considered.

[Kaiji]

Hmmm So I feel like ya'll are missing something...I think it's in the 3rd episode after the flashback where Shinichiro leaps out in front of Hiromi (when they were children) and they walk back holding hands, Hiromi's voice "narrates" something to the effect of "I buried those feelings when I moved into this house"...

I think this CLEARLY establishes that Hiromi has pent up feelings for Shinichiro from their childhood...and as recently as 1 year ago (when she moved in) she had to address those feelings for him.

Now on to #4...when Shin came in carrying Noe Hiromi was clearly taking aback. But then when #4 went for that jump shot she was clearly mesmerized by him...so who knows how "real" or "fake" her comment was about her feelings towards #4...

[bbduece]

Originally Posted by Zanshun

Hiromi just might have interest in #4 though, it might not be as random as everyone suggests and it could definitely complicate things. Otherwise alot of the focus of last episode and most of this episode is actually lost. Think about Aiko's advice, Shinichiro automatically thought that he was the one Hiromi liked because hes the only male close to Noe but now #4's relation to Noe is brought to light. They showed Hiromi's involvement in basketball last episode in order to draw the basketball connection, since she also helps out with the boy's basketball team its safe to assume that from previous basketall contests she knew of #4's name and therefore relation to Noe. Truth or plot device Shinichiro is gonna focus next episode that just as Aiko said maybe Hiromi was actually trying to be Noe's friend in order to get closer to #4. She mentioned that she sealed away her feelings and so she might legitimately be trying to move on.

Just wanted to point out that the #4 thing might not be quite as random and that there was some sort of connection and focus towards it beforehand. Having said all that I still want Shinichro x Hiromi because of the past connection and it would be more exciting to see Hiromi slowly "unseal" herself in regards to Shinichiro but I wouldn't be suprised if Shinichiro spent a few episodes dating Noe and Hiromi during that time spent some time with #4.

If you are interested in someone you dont refer to them by thier number, you state thier name proudly.

[Kaiji]

Originally Posted by bbduece

If you are interested in someone you dont refer to them by thier number, you state thier name proudly.

That's a good point...but you would if you didn't know their name...

Hiromi doesn't know that #4 is Noe's brother...

[Falkor]

Originally Posted by mandarb916

Noe, the caretaker, regardless of whether or not it was appropriate, made the initial grave as being the chicken coup. Hiromi moving that around because Hiromi thought her own idea was better, even though she wasn't the caretaker, is borderline harassment and rather screwed up, all things considered.

As far as I’m concerned, there are no hints of whether Hiromi thought her idea was better or not (only that it was not adequate to have that kind of grave while a chicken was still inside). She even mentions her hesitation for not asking Noe’s permission. I personally find it as a gesture of compassion and sympathy, not as a mean to coerce ideas upon others (if I’m reading your post correctly).

[Manji Midou]

Originally Posted by Falkor

As far as I’m concerned, there are no hints of whether Hiromi thought her idea was better or not (only that it was not adequate to have that kind of grave while a chicken was still inside). She even mentions her hesitation for not asking Noe’s permission. I personally find it as a gesture of compassion and sympathy, not as a mean to coerce ideas upon others (if I’m reading your post correctly).

from what I gather from the first 3 episodes is that Hiromi is a cynical liar, she only said to her friend that she felt some hesitation towards her action as to not end up looking bad. Noe picked this up right away, she knew Hiromi removed the grave just to spite her...Hiromi might look like a nice quiet girl...but in reality she probably isn't. Although it won't happen it be nice ifshe did hook up with #4 and the love triangle would be around Ai, Shin and Noe.

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by Manji Midou

from what I gather from the first 3 episodes is that Hiromi is a cynical liar, she only said to her friend that she felt some hesitation towards her action as to not end up looking bad. Noe picked this up right away, she knew Hiromi removed the grave just to spite her...Hiromi might look like a nice quiet girl...but in reality she probably isn't. Although it won't happen it be nice ifshe did hook up with #4 and the love triangle would be around Ai, Shin and Noe.

*claps* Exactally why I don't like her thus far.
She seems like a nice girl but I see the ugly side to her. Her acts can be taken from one extreme to another. I just can't see goodness in her yet other than being a doormat but last back stabbing at the same time.

[bbduece]

Originally Posted by Kaiji

That's a good point...but you would if you didn't know their name...

Hiromi doesn't know that #4 is Noe's brother...

I got the impression that hiromi heard noe calling out onii-chan towards #4. So that should work in favor of all her actions from before. And since she is recording stuff for the game, i would imagaine hiromi having access to all the player's names. And even though she wont remember all the names, if she really liked that person wouldnt she atleast remember his name? If you really like someone you would find out everything about them. And claiming you like someone and then telling people about it without 1st retrieving the name sounds very suspicious. And the way she said it, made it sound like she liked noe's brother for a while now and all this time she should have atleast scouted out the name.

What you said is still possible but i find it highly unlikely.

[Kaoru Chujo]

It hurts me to hear people refer to Hiromi as a "cynical liar" or a "compulsive liar." I think that is a completely wrong interpretation of what's going on.

I see Hiromi as a noble victim who has had to give up the one she loves in order to live in his family's house. His mother clearly doesn't like her. Perhaps she told her "hands off Shinichirou" when she came to live there. Or perhaps something else is going on that we don't know about yet. Maybe she is his half-sister.

In any case, I see her telling untruths in order to maintain the harmony of the household. Even in English we have the term "white lie." In East Asian culture, lying in order to preserve social harmony is definitely considered a good thing. That does not mean that the untruths will always work out well, but at least they are not some moral failing.

As for knowing or not knowing Noe's brother's name, I think she knows it. She wrote it on the scoresheet, after all. But her friend doesn't know it, so it was better to refer to him by his uniform number. She may or may not actually like him, but her liking him would be a good explanation for why she wanted to know Noe...even though she didn't really like her.

[Southern Cross]

Wow, I didn't expect true tears to take such a direction. I like it, though - especially since they've been taking an excellent approach to it all, and it's only been three episodes so far.

I'm not sure whether to feel sympathy for or loathe Hiromi, since her state of mind might be due to her past. I can't imagine how bad it'd be to lose your parents and move in with an adult who doesn't treat you very well. That all probably had an extreme, negative influence on her to make her as twisted as she has been thus far.

That aside, I like the depth they've managed to put in the characters so early on, and I look forward to watching more episodes of this in the future.

[UPR]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

As for knowing or not knowing Noe's brother's name, I think she knows it. She wrote it on the scoresheet, after all. But her friend doesn't know it, so it was better to refer to him by his uniform number. She may or may not actually like him, but her liking him would be a good explanation for why she wanted to know Noe...even though she didn't really like her.

Well if she knew it why didn't she say it? Even if the friend does not know it, this is the person you supposedly like anyone would proudly say the name of that person. Besides what kind of plot or strory would their be if Hiromi whent after Noe's brother. I know there are other elements to this, but the romance is front and center and certainly the reason im watching.

[cloudninja]

Originally Posted by Falkor

I don’t quite understand this part. How does Noe know that Hiromi didn’t want to be her friend or that in fact Hiromi hated her? As I explained in one of my posts, jealousy is probably not her only motivation (how would you explain for example building the grave for Raigomaru; everybody seems to forget about that little detail).

The show does'nt explain how Noe knows that Hiromi dislikes her but Noe is probably perceptive in seeing Hiromi as a "competitor" for Shinichiro. Hiromi does nothing to refute Noe's statement about Hiromi disliking her and not truthfully wanting to be Noe's friend. In fact Hiromi acknowledges in amazement to Shinichiro that Noe saw through her. In this matter at least it seems Noe is highly perceptive whereas Shinichiro is incredibly dense.

As for Raigomaru's grave, what Noe did was considered quirky/eccentric by everyone who saw it including Hiromi when she saw it. There are multiple ways of looking at it. Hiromi maybe just imposed her sense of normality by giving Raigomaru a normal grave. She also could have done it to "get points" so that she could be accepted as Noe's "friend" which would mean she can be very calculating. Or it could have been a test to see how Noe would react and judge her on the reaction. Maybe she thought Noe would freak out. Anyways, too many ways to read the implications of what happened about Raigomaru's grave.

[Falkor]

Originally Posted by Manji Midou

from what I gather from the first 3 episodes is that Hiromi is a cynical liar, she only said to her friend that she felt some hesitation towards her action as to not end up looking bad. Noe picked this up right away, she knew Hiromi removed the grave just to spite her...Hiromi might look like a nice quiet girl...but in reality she probably isn't. Although it won't happen it be nice ifshe did hook up with #4 and the love triangle would be around Ai, Shin and Noe.

The point of my first post was using the grave to indicate that jealousy might not be her only motivation… oh well…

I’m aware she is a liar (not a cynical one), but I don’t believe everything she says is completely false. I’m more inclined to believe that she wanted to empathize with her, but whether she wanted to save face or not, I have the impression that Noe didn’t ‘mind’ Hiromi’s ‘gesture’ or in any case spite her since she only asks if she was the one who built the grave (notice here that she doesn’t reproach her for doing so).

Originally Posted by cloudninja

The show does'nt explain how Noe knows that Hiromi dislikes her but Noe is probably perceptive in seeing Hiromi as a "competitor" for Shinichiro. Hiromi does nothing to refute Noe's statement about Hiromi disliking her and not truthfully wanting to be Noe's friend. In fact Hiromi acknowledges to Shinichiro that Noe saw through her.

As for Raigomaru's grave, what Noe did was considered quirky/eccentric by everyone who saw it including Hiromi when she saw it. There are multiple ways of looking at it. Hiromi maybe just imposed her sense of normality by giving Raigomaru a normal grave. She also could have done it to "get points" so that she could be accepted as Noe's "friend" which would mean she can be very calculating. Or it could have been a test to see how Noe would react and judge her on the reaction. Maybe she thought Noe would freak out. Anyways, too many ways to read the implications of what happened about Raigomaru's grave.

I have the impression that nobody—including the characters in the anime—knows what’s going on inside of Hiromi’s head. I addition to this, I have come to discover that Hiromi is an insecure girl and she doesn’t really know what her ‘real’ motives are for befriending Noe. When Noe tells her that she didn’t like her at all or wanted to become her friend in the first place, she just accepts it because she is facing a situation where everything is turning against her while she is not the type who has the will to pursue the matter any further. I find her ‘acknowledgement’ (Noe didn’t completely see through her) to be a lie given that she cannot become her friend and it’s actually the best way to clear things up with Shinichiro.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by cloudninja

As for Raigomaru's grave, what Noe did was considered quirky/eccentric by everyone who saw it including Hiromi when she saw it. There are multiple ways of looking at it. Hiromi maybe just imposed her sense of normality by giving Raigomaru a normal grave. She also could have done it to "get points" so that she could be accepted as Noe's "friend" which would mean she can be very calculating. Or it could have been a test to see how Noe would react and judge her on the reaction. Maybe she thought Noe would freak out. Anyways, too many ways to read the implications of what happened about Raigomaru's grave.

Yes, my interpretation of the grave scene was that Hiromi thought she would be nice to Noe by giving Raigomaru a proper burial/grave. She saw that it was obviously important to Noe, and a proper grave is a sign of respect for the deceased. In other words, she was breaking the ice by saying, essentially, "what's important to you is important to me too". Of course, as we went on to see, this was just her being somewhat of an opportunist, as she really didn't care about Noe to begin with. She just saw the grave, needed a way to break the ice with Noe, and put two and two together. She's manipulative and extremely dishonest with herself and others, but I didn't see it as being particularly messed up/twisted beyond that. But of course, that's just one interpretation...

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

As for knowing or not knowing Noe's brother's name, I think she knows it. She wrote it on the scoresheet, after all. But her friend doesn't know it, so it was better to refer to him by his uniform number. She may or may not actually like him, but her liking him would be a good explanation for why she wanted to know Noe...even though she didn't really like her.

Funny you put it like that, 'cause when you first see the scene, you suggest that she is just saying number four out of random to so that they can drop the subject, but then you have her wanting to be Noe's friend. I'm pretty sure this is what Shin will have playing through his mind next episode.

[Kaoru Chujo]

"Manipulative," "twisted," "cynical," "liar." (Shakes head.) I just don't see Hiromi that way at all. At all.

"Complicated," "sad," "victimized," "noble." Those are more the adjectives that make sense to me.

But as relentlessflame says, everyone gets to make their own interpretation. We'll know better as this fascinating story evolves.

[Vulcannis]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

It hurts me to hear people refer to Hiromi as a "cynical liar" or a "compulsive liar." I think that is a completely wrong interpretation of what's going on.

I see Hiromi as a noble victim who has had to give up the one she loves in order to live in his family's house. His mother clearly doesn't like her. Perhaps she told her "hands off Shinichirou" when she came to live there. Or perhaps something else is going on that we don't know about yet. Maybe she is his half-sister.

I agree (well, not the half-sister part.) Hiromi has obviously liked Shin since before her father died, but doesn't want to cause any problems for her foster family, which, you know, declaring your love for your foster brother might cause. Add in that Shin's mother treats her like crap and obviously doesn't accept her, and you should be able to understand her resolve not to rock the boat there. Her declaration of love for #4 was obviously just a cover--her friend is perceptive enough to pick up on her real feelings, and she's desperate to keep that from getting out. Having Shin overhear that is pretty standard teen angst fair, but True Tears pulled it off well at least. I'm honestly baffled how anyone can see her as some kind of "compulsive liar" or think that she was somehow telling the truth. This was nothing but a white lie for misdirection, and perhaps a bit of pain/stress relief (not having to continuously deny her real feelings to her best friend, at least for a little while.)

I'm of the opinion that her befriending attempt (including the grave building) of Noe was out of jealousy, but I doubt she had anything sinister in mind. She probably hadn't even thought out what the point of it was--she just panicked.

I think Aiko was projecting when she "explained" Hiromi's actions to Shin, and that her explanation is exactly what she in turn is doing. She probably sees what a bad position she's in already... I look forward to how that will blow up.

I have to chime in in support of the Bokura ga Ita comparisons, but more in feel than specific parallels. One thing I'm loving about True Tears is just how real all the relationships feel. There seems to be substance to all of them, none seem to be just there to fill in the blanks, and I hope that pays off nicely. I also like the flow of the storytelling, there's no huge ups or downs, just steady progress, yet they manage excellent emotional cliff hangers each episode.

[mandarb916]

Originally Posted by Falkor

As far as I’m concerned, there are no hints of whether Hiromi thought her idea was better or not (only that it was not adequate to have that kind of grave while a chicken was still inside). She even mentions her hesitation for not asking Noe’s permission. I personally find it as a gesture of compassion and sympathy, not as a mean to coerce ideas upon others (if I’m reading your post correctly).

I don't see how rearranging a grave, without asking prior to acting, can even be considered close to compassionate or sympathetic. How would you like it if someone came into your home, saw the ashes of your relative on an altar, and that someone decided that it was better to move the ashes into your backyard with a tombstone instead and did so without asking you? Yes, Noe is a little...wacky, but that doesn't give Hiromi the right to impose "normal" views on to Noe.