Toradora! - Episode 18 Discussion / Poll

[qwerty_]

Originally Posted by Justin Kim

Ok, I just finished the episode. Now I have become super confused on which characters to support throughout this episode.

'
I just don't support characters. I'm just watching my ''ants in a glass box'' - and that's cool.

[Zanien]

Hi everyone, just joined your fine community.

Loved this episode, next episode is the big one. Minorin has to show up to the party, shes just gotta! Ami has become the series most likable character too, shes so down to earth, shes never really worried about herself but keeps giving advice to all the others, but ends up getting nothing back, I feel kinda sorry for her.

[Fran~]

Originally Posted by Waven

Which may change, this is just a teenager crush based on simple incidents, not a full-fledged love based on a built-up relationship, i guess you can see where i'm getting at.

Yes... i see your point...
My point is exactly that, i'll support the girl who Ryuuji loves, it could be Minori today, Ami tomorrow, etc... But it doen't mean that i hate the others girls, i really like them, even Yuri-chan is lovable.

[qwerty_]

Originally Posted by Zanien

Hi everyone, just joined your fine community.

Loved this episode, next episode is the big one. Minorin has to show up to the party, shes just gotta! Ami has become the series most likable character too, shes so down to earth, shes never really worried about herself but keeps giving advice to all the others, but ends up getting nothing back, I feel kinda sorry for her.

I should been watching a different anime.

Ami is just a EQ-clever normal girl who wants to make friends and like/love some blue-haired dude - and, in her own way, try to get him.

[Zanien]

Originally Posted by qwerty_

I should been watching a different anime.

Ami is just a EQ-clever normal girl who wants to make friends and like/love some blue-haired dude - and, in her own way, try to get him.

Yeah, but place her beside Minorin who is a crazy nutball and Taiga who flips out at the drop of the hat and she seems positively grounded . With Minorin being all emo and Taiga suddenly having a strange personality shift she seems the only one who's taking things in stride.

[qwerty_]

Originally Posted by Zanien

Yeah, but place her beside Minorin who is a crazy nutball and Taiga who flips out at the drop of the hat and she seems positively grounded . With Minorin being all emo and Taiga suddenly having a strange personality shift she seems the only one who's taking things in stride.

Taiga's development isn't THAT shift-y.

And Ami herself changed - compare ep. 18 Ami w/ ep. 5 Ami [who was a jerk].

[wistfulloner]

Originally Posted by Justin Kim

Ok, I just finished the episode. Now I have become super confused on which characters to support throughout this episode.

I would prefer if no sides are taken. Siding with a certain character tends to warp your opinion to that character's viewpoint and become biased. It's really best to watch the show as a neutral observer if you want to appreciate all the feelings the characters have.

Back on topic, Ami is seriously pitiful. Her "taking things in stride" just makes things worse for herself, since she's asking why she's helping others but not herself. I sometimes find myself feeling bad for her when she tries to give mature advice but ends up curling into a ball and feeling sorry for herself.

[Maciste]

I don't really "hate" anyone in Toradora, but I do dislike the character Ami.
She's so precocious and lectures everyone else, instead of minding her own business. What I'm saying is, she can lecture others, but not about a matter she is unstable with herself. She did improve/develop, but she's still not true to herself/her true self. For example: Instead of whispering: "...and maybe you'll give me another chance..." (which implies that she's interested in Ryuuji), she could say it once again and join the "battle". But she does the same thing, she accuses the others for.
She got the good looks, no doubt, but her attitude/character is what I dislike. Apparently, I'm among a really small minority. Just my opinion.

I like Minorin better without all the hyperactivity and overdrawn acting. I found it more annoying than actually funny. Yes, she's crushed down, but that gives us a better comprehension of the real Minorin.

Episode 18:
The broken crystal-star and the following situation with Ryuuji and Minorin was very well executed and left me in awe. To me, it was such a strong scene, like the one, in one of the previous eps, where Ryuuji scolded Taiga about her father and realized he was just projecting his feelings on her. Those are the moments when I realize, why I'm actually watching and loving this show: The mature handling of delicate situations without becoming cliché. Well done, Toradora!

Edit:

Originally Posted by wistfulloner

Back on topic, Ami is seriously pitiful. Her "taking things in stride" just makes things worse for herself, since she's asking why she's helping others but not herself. I sometimes find myself feeling bad for her when she tries to give mature advice but ends up curling into a ball and feeling sorry for herself.

I share the same point (besides the "feeling bad for her"-part).

[Jeshua]

I feel sorry for Ami, really... Her friends left her alone with Ryuji on a dark room and everything and the only thing that he has going trhu his mind is:

"What about Taiga?"

Pitiful.

Was it just my imagination or that Gal Girl... I mean, that nice blonde girl tried to ask if Ryuji didn't want to go with Ami to the party, after being told by the other girl that Ami really has a crush on our Dora? (all of this happened off-screen, of course. X)
(this is the only reason that I see for her to interrupt Taiga and Ryuji's conversation - I don't think that she would ask him to tie her up with the geekglassesdude - she doesn't need that...)

Anyway. Excellent episode... I don't give it a 10 score coz' the animation seemed to be a little cr*ppy but oh well - can't expect Ghibli Quality on every anime that I see.

Minorin's attitude doesn't make any sense anymore. EMO. Her moment together with Ryuji was cool, indeed... Very touching and, again, each of then was talking about different things, even if the talk seemed to be about the same subject... Even with that, I don't see clearly whatehell is going inside her head!... emo emo emo... die.

[Tyabann]

Everything will make sense eventually.

[Fran~]

Wait a second... with all due respect, but being emo is waaaay too different to Minori's situation.

The poor girl is in a pinch, one very common, she thinks that feel "something" for Ryuuji could ends in madness, that's all, her weird behaivour is explain by that, she avoids any contact with Ryuuji because she thinks that could solve everything, but in the end it just makes the things worst.

Besides, with a girl like Taiga between that is even worst, because Taiga is not an ordinary girl, she and Ryuuji are really close each other as a friend or whatever, but they are close and Minori is just too afraid to even think in Taiga's reaction if she open her heart to Ryuuji.

That's all... not emo, just a girl who thinks that is really complicated to love the"best friend of her best friend" without hurt somebody in the process.

[DragoZERO]

Once that window broke I knew what happened and what will happen.

Things are getting good and I'm getting impatient waiting week after week.

[Kylaran]

Originally Posted by Maciste

I don't really "hate" anyone in Toradora, but I do dislike the character Ami.
She's so precocious and lectures everyone else, instead of minding her own business. What I'm saying is, she can lecture others, but not about a matter she is unstable with herself. She did improve/develop, but she's still not true to herself/her true self. For example: Instead of whispering: "...and maybe you'll give me another chance..." (which implies that she's interested in Ryuuji), she could say it once again and join the "battle". But she does the same thing, she accuses the others for.
She got the good looks, no doubt, but her attitude/character is what I dislike. Apparently, I'm among a really small minority. Just my opinion.

I'd just like to point out that the subs for ToraDora are somewhat skewed in perspective, and a bit too interpretive (at least for my tastes). I've bolded the areas that I think change the conversation a bit.

[7:33]

幼稚なままごと、もうやめた方がいいよ。

I think you should stop playing this childish game of house.

きっと最初から間違ってたよ。

You've been making mistakes all along.

You've been mistaken since the beginning.

大怪我する前に、目を覚ましたら？

Why don't you wake up before you get hurt even more?

Why don't you just wake up before you're seriously hurt?

全部チャラにして、一から始めればいいじゃん。

You should forget everything and just start over.

それで。。。

Then...

あたしのことも、一から入れてよ。

you could also give me another chance.

you could include me from the start too.

Although I do think "you could also give me another chance" fits the mood of the scene, and, while I do think that it's one of the motives Ami has for disliking the relationship between Ryuuji, Minori, and Taiga, I think that the translation shows Ami off to be more direct than she actually is. When looking at the Japanese, I think it shows a bit more emotion. Jealousy, love, loneliness, friendship, belonging. I see all those hinted at in this line.

I personally don't think that Ami is only frustrated at times because she's unable to obtain Ryuuji. Being close to others is difficult for her, and I think that she's grown attached to the people at the school. But she didn't join into their group until after things had already been set in motion, which is one of the reasons why she finds it so difficult to break into the relationship that was already there. But now that things between Ryuuji and Minori are changing, she sees a possibility for serious pain for them.

When Ami's friends commented that she could obtain everything, I actually felt that there's a sense of loneliness about her that we often associate, perhaps mistake, with maturity. Besides the fact that she teases Ryuuji, but at times seems very serious about him, she's not actually a part of their group.

At least, from the way I look at it, she's able to comment on things from a bit of an outsider's view. That's one of the major reasons she's able to talk to Ryuuji so easily, and act so mature sometimes. I think the subtle weakness behind Ami in this scene is that fact that things would've been so different had she been able to be part of their group since the beginning. Be it allowing her to contend for Ryuuji's heart, or be it simply finding herself involved in their relationships more, she'd be in a position different from where she is now.

So, in response, Maciste, I don't think she CAN join the battle. She's tried, but she can't. This entire time, she's been involved, but I don't think we've seen the same emotional pain and involvement from her compared to other characters. And I don't think she's the strong enough type to hide all her emotions, either. She's simply doing what she can, and giving advice how she sees it. Of course, her advice shows a bit of her own desires.

I'm not a big fan of Ami, mostly because I've only viewed her as someone slightly separate from the four (Ryuuji, Taiga, Minori, and Kitamura). But I do think she's critical to how this story progresses. I also think she's a bit more multi-dimensional than some people are giving her credit for.

[doso]

Originally Posted by Maciste

I don't really "hate" anyone in Toradora, but I do dislike the character Ami.
She's so precocious and lectures everyone else, instead of minding her own business. What I'm saying is, she can lecture others, but not about a matter she is unstable with herself. She did improve/develop, but she's still not true to herself/her true self. For example: Instead of whispering: "...and maybe you'll give me another chance..." (which implies that she's interested in Ryuuji), she could say it once again and join the "battle". But she does the same thing, she accuses the others for.
She got the good looks, no doubt, but her attitude/character is what I dislike. Apparently, I'm among a really small minority. Just my opinion.

for me, Ami knows which girl Takasu really likes. That's why she says "wake up already", to see if he acknowledges his love for Taiga. But at the same time, knowing he is confused (maybe he doesn't know that he is), she's hoping he will fall for her. To complicate things, she also knows that Minori likes him, and Taiga Yuusaku (or that Taiga is confused just like Takasu). Asking for another chance was her weak moment.
So, she IS true to herself. She actually wants to join the "battle", but she knows it's pointless.
___

As for Minori, it's too strange... Maybe now she thinks Takasu is in love with Taiga
edit: when Takasu is helping her to repair the star there's another reaction from Minori. When he says "it's for my own sake", Kushieda probably thought "it's for her, not for me".
But, when Takasu tells her that he wants to go to the festival with her, she reacts with her hands, which could be translated "don't you love Taiga?" or better "does he love me, not Taiga?"
Or she's being like Ami. Denying her love because she knows both Taiga and Takasu are confused.

A lot of empathy action and the power of misunderstandings.

[Guardian Enzo]

Damn, Ami is perceptive - she just has everyone nailed right to the core. She really is like an adult in a sea of children - except she's really a little girl herself, emotionally.

Is it just me? I keep waiting for that glasses boy to invite Shinji Ikari to go camping in the mountains above Tokyo III...

[Guardian Enzo]

Well, that was officially my first 10 for a Toradora ep. "Beautiful, isn't it? It can be fixed, even if it's broken." Wow. That's a powerful line, on so many levels.

[DragoZERO]

I want to see some Ami x Ryuji stuff going on. She is just wallowing and just mumbles about him giving her a second chance. If you ask me.. she never got a first chance so she should just pick herself up and give me the damn ending I want, lol.

[Fran~]

Amin knows that Ryuuji is crazy about Minori since almost the begining (at the beach)... and knows how much Ryuuji cares Taiga. Ryuuji is playing Daddy with Taiga and Taiga is ok with that because she doesnt have a dad.

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

If you ask me.. she never got a first chance so she should just pick herself up and give me the damn ending I want, lol.

Maybe she never got a first chance, but she left a bad first impression to Ryuuji... even worst, what happen at Ryuuji's house caused troubles with him and Taiga... that's why she asked that second chance.

[Justin Kim]

I feel sorry for Ami hahaha - I think she knows herself, that her ambitions are childish no matter how adult-like she portrays herself. Ryuuji, is just plain deaf or something, although he can realize the faults and feelings of each character in the anime sometimes. (Ryuuji needs to be a bit more attentive to Ami) -_-

[Waven]

Unfortunately she's another classic example of a character that is pretty much destined to be left aside in the end, no matter how unique and likable she may be.