Please enlighten, what was so awful about the last SO episode?

[zalas]

Originally Posted by candy

i say if you dont like the sub(especially S-0 since they're some what of speed subbers) learn japanese and get the raws. whats the point of complaining about free treat? take the gift that the S-0 are offering or just leave it be.

People have got to stop using that argument when talking about fansubs. If some speedsub crap group came along, and offered 'free subs,' it's still going to affect the other subbers, even if it's in a small way. It might even be something that the other groups don't notice. (Say perhaps rushing 5 minutes here and there) It's not like fansub groups don't affect each other and are totally isolated, in which case I would agree with such an argument.

[NaturalCause]

such a pitty bakasan was so much better at it. and nothing was wrong till shitty s-o came along, now i have to wait ages to get good subs. to think, if they didn;t come along and sub naruto, everything would have been fine...

[ichido reichan]

Originally Posted by NaturalCause

such a pitty bakasan was so much better at it. and nothing was wrong till shitty s-o came along, now i have to wait ages to get good subs. to think, if they didn;t come along and sub naruto, everything would have been fine...

why dont you come here and show me how you do it better? I bet you cant have any idea how this process is done, a little bit more and you gonna start screaming "gimme back my money"

But wait, you get it for free... and you complain?

Dumb narutard, spoiled brat, know your place.

[Gold_Rogers]

Originally Posted by zalas

People have got to stop using that argument when talking about fansubs. If some speedsub crap group came along, and offered 'free subs,' it's still going to affect the other subbers, even if it's in a small way. It might even be something that the other groups don't notice. (Say perhaps rushing 5 minutes here and there) It's not like fansub groups don't affect each other and are totally isolated, in which case I would agree with such an argument.

It's a free country (at least where I live). There's nothing wrong about complaining about free stuff, but there's also nothing wrong with wanting to speedsub something, or downloading from whichever group you choose (even if it's crap). Just because fansubbers affect each other as a community doesn't mean their actions should be policed or held accountable for the leechers' behavior. I can see this kind of argument working in East Asia where the sense of the collective is overwhelming within society, but in the western world it just doesn't hold.

[candy]

Originally Posted by zalas

People have got to stop using that argument when talking about fansubs. If some speedsub crap group came along, and offered 'free subs,' it's still going to affect the other subbers, even if it's in a small way. It might even be something that the other groups don't notice. (Say perhaps rushing 5 minutes here and there) It's not like fansub groups don't affect each other and are totally isolated, in which case I would agree with such an argument.

sure it a fansub group can impact a small portion of the fansubbing and leeching community yet i dont get where you are coming from. so what if they impact each other? what does that have to do with the fact that it IS a free treat? all i'm saying is that S-0 is a new group, they're learning, they provide subtitles that can be understood and they are improving. also, they take our constructive, i repeat, constructive criticizm and are willing to accept their mistakes with a whole lot of positive attitude.

if this was some group made up of negative egotistic jerks then i would have no problem with people bashing. but as far as i see it, S-0 is very positive and they're trying their best. if you're not willing to accept that then you're just ignorant.

[snoopy]

Speed subbers don't try their best. Let's say there's a little bar with 'fast' on the left and 'quality' on the right. There is one arrow on the bar and a dial under it to controle the arrow. Speed subbers move their arrow all the way to the left, basically saying "we will be the first to release and get the leechers who don't care about quality". If that's 'trying your best' then you suck. But I've never seen the S-O or whatever fansubs and I don't plan to watch them (I don't plan to watch subs from any group that only works on Naruto... come on, be original or something or anything or whatever), that's just my take on speed subbing in general.

To address the ever-present 'don't bitch about free shit' thing. Would you bitch if someone subbed something you really wanted to see COMPLETELY wrong? Let's say they tried their best, but they've only studied Japanese for 5 months and got EVERYTHING wrong and claimed that it was correct. Would you defend them? Would you say "HEY! They did their best and I like their translation!"? Or would you be like "Bitches, now I have to download it again because of your crap release!"? Personally, I wouldn't have downloaded it in the first place, but if I went into some kind of alcohol induced stuper and found it in my downloads directory, I'd be pretty pissed. And I can only imagine how pissed I'd be if I was one of those sad unfortunate souls that have download limits on their broadband connections. Besides, a know-nothing leech coming in here saying 'you can't do any better, don't bitch' is worth less than nothing to me or anyone else.

[zalas]

Originally Posted by candy

sure it a fansub group can impact a small portion of the fansubbing and leeching community yet i dont get where you are coming from. so what if they impact each other? what does that have to do with the fact that it IS a free treat? all i'm saying is that S-0 is a new group, they're learning, they provide subtitles that can be understood and they are improving. also, they take our constructive, i repeat, constructive criticizm and are willing to accept their mistakes with a whole lot of positive attitude.

My argument was directed at crappy speedsub groups in general, and not against S-O. The thing is... I don't want these 'free treats' from crap groups if they're going to ruin the quality of the fansubs I'm watching from reputable groups.

Originally Posted by Gold_Rogers

It's a free country (at least where I live). There's nothing wrong about complaining about free stuff, but there's also nothing wrong with wanting to speedsub something, or downloading from whichever group you choose (even if it's crap). Just because fansubbers affect each other as a community doesn't mean their actions should be policed or held accountable for the leechers' behavior. I can see this kind of argument working in East Asia where the sense of the collective is overwhelming within society, but in the western world it just doesn't hold.

It isn't policing unless you're actually forcing the speedsubbers to stop fansubbing thru direct means. That doesn't mean I can't complain as much as I want. If I feel that my complaints will help even just a fraction of the groups, then I'll keep complaining. Otherwise, I'm just condoning these actions...

[CompShrink]

Originally Posted by zalas

It isn't policing unless you're actually forcing the speedsubbers to stop fansubbing thru direct means. That doesn't mean I can't complain as much as I want. If I feel that my complaints will help even just a fraction of the groups, then I'll keep complaining. Otherwise, I'm just condoning these actions...

So your sayign flaming is a good way to shut down groups you don't like? God, aren't you suggesting a happy internet...


I am personally really conflicted over how ok it is to complain. I mean, I'm obviously bias being a fansubber (no, not part of S-O), but I remember it wasn't all that long ago I was just a fan. Yes it's free, but if it completely sucks, is entirely inacurate... well... I have seen very few that were actually less than say 85% accurate, but I have seen a few. Those made me want to claw my eyes out. One case, the subtitles were even at the top, all of them, and there was nothing all that important on the bottom...

Then again, as I said, I know from experience, fansubing takes a lot of time and energy. And you know what, even the fastest speedsub, with only say 65% accuracy, takes a lot of time and effort. It really hurts when people bash you for something you spend alot of time and effort on. Even if you know they're just idiots that have nothing better to do than flame, it really is discouraging.

So, to complain or not to complain? I think complaining is prettymuch pointless, unless they are like the group I mentioned with horrible accuracy, even worse grammar, and subtitles at the top. If they have any shred of quality, point out a few of the things you think need the most improvement. And thank them for it, no matter what, even the people that did a horrible job love the show, or why would they do it?

Snoppy, you are really close minded. I think people like you piss me off more than the flamers. You won't even look at something new. New=Bad to you, and we can't convince you otherwise. No fansubber is perfect, and you never know if the new group might actually be better.


Ok, one last point. There are two varieties of so called "speed subbers," imho. One, they try to get it out as fast as possible, regardless of quality, as long as it is english and finished, they want to release first. Then there are the unbelievably dedicated groups. They will put almost everything they have going on in their lives on hold for a few hours for the fansub.

The truth is, from what I've seen and the people I've talked to, each member in a group with a reasonable amount of members will only spend a couple of hours to maybe 8 hours max on a release, unless something goes seriously wrong. This goes for the high quality & established groups as well as the speed subbers. Certain things can also be done at the same time, such as timing & translating at the same time, and editing & the first pass(es) of divx/xvid at the same time. If you can get everyone to work together efficiently, and make sure when something is done, there isn't a delay for the next member to pick it up, the process doesn't have to take that long.

The thing is, we all have lives. Speed subbing is a either putting your lives on hold, skimpping on quality, or a combination. A good speedsubber will put their lives on hodl to fit the group's schedule, and skimp on quality as little as possible. The quality is not entirely dependent on speed, but also the decication, the willingness to give up your life, and actual skill.

Ok, not sure if that even had a point... oh, wait, yeah, faster does not always mean lower quality. That group I complained about at the top of my post, only released 1 episode every 2 weeks.

[candy]

Originally Posted by snoopy

To address the ever-present 'don't bitch about free shit' thing. Would you bitch if someone subbed something you really wanted to see COMPLETELY wrong? Let's say they tried their best, but they've only studied Japanese for 5 months and got EVERYTHING wrong and claimed that it was correct. Would you defend them? Would you say "HEY! They did their best and I like their translation!"? Or would you be like "Bitches, now I have to download it again because of your crap release!"? Personally, I wouldn't have downloaded it in the first place, but if I went into some kind of alcohol induced stuper and found it in my downloads directory, I'd be pretty pissed. And I can only imagine how pissed I'd be if I was one of those sad unfortunate souls that have download limits on their broadband connections. Besides, a know-nothing leech coming in here saying 'you can't do any better, don't bitch' is worth less than nothing to me or anyone else.

i wouldnt blame anyone else but myself. seriously, no body is holding a gun to your head, REALLY. fansubbers release the subs, the link goes on the new release list, you can either ignore it or download it. and please dont tell me that S-0 or another fansub group MADE you download and watch their fan subs.

CompShrink i completely agree with you. i just wish all the anime-fans could think like you do =/

[zalas]

Originally Posted by CompShrink

So your sayign flaming is a good way to shut down groups you don't like? God, aren't you suggesting a happy internet...

When I say complain, I meant complaining with details in mind. I wouldn't just bash a group if their quality isn't that good. I'd point out what was wrong with it. There's no point in complaining if you can't describe actually what's wrong so that they can work on making it better.

[Secca]

I've been gone for several days, and reading up the thread. That was some really angry boy there.

Lol. fear the Naruto fanboys. ^^

Now I'm just wondering why he download it in the first place? And then start comparing it with Anbu-Aone version? It's a speedsub, duh. What is he complaining about? ^^

[CompShrink]

Originally Posted by Secca

I've been gone for several days, and reading up the thread. That was some really angry boy there.

Lol. fear the Naruto fanboys. ^^

Now I'm just wondering why he download it in the first place? And then start comparing it with Anbu-Aone version? It's a speedsub, duh. What is he complaining about? ^^

Why shouldn't it be compared? They do it fast, but since you said you read this thread, you should know they are also trying to put out the best possible release...

[SirCanealot]

Originally Posted by snoopy

but if I went into some kind of alcohol induced stuper and found it in my downloads directory, I'd be pretty pissed.

I completely agree. Sometimes it's not even your fault. I remember years back when I was watching the old Hell Sing fansubs, and one of the episodes my friend gave me was an AJ episode. I was pissed. If I was a pirate, I'd have gone and blew up his house right there and then.

i'm a total nut for maison ikkoku. i've read the manga and watched the series years ago. i recently wanted to watch that classic anime again yet i couldnt find it any where. i found a group that had torrents for it, tenchi-domain. the video quality is good yet every single episode has many many missing translated subs. of course i'm dissapointed but hey, i'm the one who is desperate so i seriously do not have the right to complain.

That series is LICENCED. Perhaps you should try a website like DVDPacific.com for your "fix"...

But I agree. Complaining sucks. You shouldn't complain. You should "critique". Like me. I rarely complain, always critique. Oh well...

[Secca]

Originally Posted by CompShrink

Why shouldn't it be compared? They do it fast, but since you said you read this thread, you should know they are also trying to put out the best possible release...

I have no problem if they comparing notes on the translations. I have problem when they comparing a speedsub group and a qualitysub group translation. Specially when it turn into flaming a fansub group over something like this.

Quality sub is not as easy as it look, they need to realize it takes time to research those words, even just when finding the word in the manga. And then it takes more time wording it to make it sounds right and the getting the QC to get those minor details. All those extra thing they do for a quality translation what make it so worth it in the long run.

Speedsub on the other hand is to be expected when they make small mistakes because they will concentrate on tackling the harder translations than worrying over minor details, and getting that episode finished within the deadline. That deadline is key.

I think it's just different priority when you are translating for quality and translating for speedsub. And you just cannot use the comparison of their translations as a reason to flame them.

[yen1703]

Am just going to list what happened.

1. Shin Otaku's 81 had translation mistakes. I'm talking about mistakes in overall meaning, not just grammar or spelling mistakes. They graciously made that episode offline until 81 - version 2 was ready. This is the episode that is referred to by the title of this thread.

2. Shin Otaku released 82 - I haven't seen it but as far as I can tell there were no translation errors like in their 81. No one in this board has pointed out a pertinent translation mistake. There were comments on grammar, titling, etc. but no completely off translation mistakes.

3. On Bakasan --- Bakasan has stopped fansubbing Naruto. In his last ep. (81), he commented on how inaccurate Shin Otaku's 81 was. There was a row between both groups concerning on who copied whose translation scripts. Bakasan believes that Shin Otaku has just been using his translation scripts. Shin Otaku denies this & Bakasan hasn't been able give concrete evidence to prove his supposition.

It was just the timing. According to rumors, Bakasan intentionally delayed releasing ep. 81 to see if Shin Otaku would also be delayed. You see, Bakasan releases about a day or 2 earlier than Shin Otaku. If Shin Otaku also delayed in releasing ep. 81, that (might) mean that Shin Otaku had been depending on Bakasan's scripts.

On ep. 81 --- Shin Otaku released before Bakasan, and unfortunately for them, they had translation errors which couldn't be ignored. I think because of this, Bakasan really then believed that Shin Otaku had just been using his scripts. That the reason why their ep. 81 release was so flawed was because they had to translate on their own.

=======================
Added CombiHenge's correction
=======================

Good summary... though, have to make a correction:

Bakasan's 81 was released before Shin Otaku's 81 (v1). He was playing the waiting game, hence he displayed that he had it ready on his website, but wouldn't let anyone download it...
=======================

On Shin Otaku's side --- they said that they had a new translator who misheard some of the dialogue. I've seen Shin Otaku's 81 & some of their mistakes were difficult to take.

However, on Shin Otaku's Ep. 82 --- no one has been able to post a really bad translation error. To me, grammar differences, spelling, punctuation, fonts, timing, etc. are not that important to be concerned about when it's a speedsub. You just have to watch out that the dialogue is more or less accurately translated.

As to the reason why Bakasan stopped fansubbing... well, as I have mentioned before - there are more reasons not to fansub than to fansub. Fansubbing is very hard work. I'm sorry Bakasan has stopped fansubbing but I also have to say kudos to Shin Otaku.

[CombiHenge]

Good summary... though, have to make a correction:

Bakasan's 81 was released before Shin Otaku's 81 (v1). He was playing the waiting game, hence he displayed that he had it ready on his website, but wouldn't let anyone download it...

Yep, the topic was S-O's 81, but they've improved with 82 for sure. I'm sure 83 will be pretty impressive. But saying that, not getting expectations up, no one gets it perfectly right... A-A had a minor mistake or two in their 82 sub - a missing 'my' when Kisame faces Kakashi. And then you had the people who had not updated their codecs(!)... these were probably the same people who complained about not being able to watch Bakasan's encodes.

Anyway, we shouldn't really be making comparisons or rating the fan groups... it's all a matter of choice.

I can live with minor mistakes with any group, i'm just glad there's people out there subbing Naruto for us fans!

[yen1703]

Thank you, CombiHenge.

I added your correction to my post to make it as accurate as possible. Definitely do not want more misunderstandings.

I forgot that Bakasan did announce his release of 81 first. I only now recall that at that time - no one could find the torrent file.

I only remember that it was Shin Otaku's 81 that was (really) available for download first. ^^ That's also the reason why I downloaded their 81. It was my first ep. by Shin Otaku.

(sigh) My memory is going.

Quick Recap.

---- It was S-O's 81 that had translation problems. They say they will be coming out with a version 2. In the meantime, their ep 81 is unavailable for download. Their 82 as far as I know is okay translation-wise. Good for them.

---- As for Bakasan, I can see why he would have been upset with S-O's 81. A lot of people were. However, it isn't fair to blame S-O for his decision. Only Bakasan knows why he stopped.

[Griffin]

I have to say Episode 83 was pretty good by SO. There was one oddity I think someone else mentioned around 15:03 when all the people are in the room talking. What the hell Naruto is said. All in all really good. just that wierd spot.

[Uska]

Originally Posted by ichido reichan

why dont you come here and show me how you do it better? I bet you cant have any idea how this process is done, a little bit more and you gonna start screaming "gimme back my money"

But wait, you get it for free... and you complain?

Dumb narutard, spoiled brat, know your place.

No actually he won't show you cause he can't do any better. And if he did, he'd suck, and hard. His comments do make me laugh, it's so stupid how a person can say that you suck without doing shit for himself. Go suck a lemon naturalcause, come back when you release the next Naruto, then we can talk about who sucks and who doesn't.

And SO, don't get discouraged. Do what you do as long as you can. The fansubbing world can be satisfying, you can be very satisfied you gave fans an alternative and that you worked on a series you love(not to mention have fun while doing it ^^). Don't pay attention to dumbasses, there's plenty of em around.

[candy]

Originally Posted by SirCanealot

That series is LICENCED. Perhaps you should try a website like DVDPacific.com for your "fix"...

But I agree. Complaining sucks. You shouldn't complain. You should "critique". Like me. I rarely complain, always critique. Oh well...

you must be kidding. i've only seen the korean release on a VHS years back so i had no idea. thank you for pointing that out. now i can go buy the actual, viewable dvds with subs thta didnt leave anything out and leave no regrets =)

i'll edit my previous post.