Anime Saimoe Tournament 2013 (Japan)

[Subayai]

I find it a little bit disappointing that Azusa only raised about the same amount of votes as Toki. Even if Saki's strength is gone now, there should still be a significant amount of neutral voters who maybe wouldn't support a former winner like Toki but would still support a non-faction newcomer like Azusa. It's getting harder and harder to believe that a strong opponent who will challenge the MadoMagis will ever show up.

In any case and whatever the results are, all my wishes are with Miho today. To be honest, I don't think she can beat a Madoka-powered Ayase but, if someone had told me after the main draw that Miho would be in the block final of the group of death, I wouldn't have believe it. Even if she loses here, at least I know that she is going to get another chance and hopefully will not draw Madoka again.

Originally Posted by Gohan78

Yeah, the rule that "we don't reveal the multivotes if the outcome of the match isn't reversed" is ridiculous. People will inevitably think that the mods are helping the MadoMagi girls. I am a Madoka fan but I want a clean victory.

Yeah, there were many complaints against the admins because of this. Apparently, the admins were concerned that releasing the multivote codes would help the multivoters devise a counter-measure. If you ask me, it's not a very good reason but that's what they argued. At some point it seemed like they were about to concede to reveal the results with multivotes removed but without releasing the codes. But they haven't done this today so I guess they didn't go for it after all.

---------------------------------------

Originally Posted by ion475

Ayase v. Miborin today, with Madoka faction fully behind Lovely My Angel. Personally, on one side I want Ayase to win but on the other, I'm getting bored at the fact that if Ayase win, Madoka is likely to come back, and as much as I'm trying to not hate MadoMagi, it does get boring...

I can only hope a good part of the japanese voters will feel the same as you. I mean, if Ayase's greatest fan thinks this... maybe, just maybe, a miracle could happen.

[Ithekro]

Could Mami become the first repeat champion?

[Ichuki]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Could Mami become the first repeat champion?

Hopefully not much as like I like Mami, I'm not keen on the idea of repeat champions. I feel like the repcharge system might make Madoka the champion if Puella Magis wins again.

Originally Posted by Subayai

I find it a little bit disappointing that Azusa only raised about the same amount of votes as Toki. Even if Saki's strength is gone now, there should still be a significant amount of neutral voters who maybe wouldn't support a former winner like Toki but would still support a non-faction newcomer like Azusa. It's getting harder and harder to believe that a strong opponent who will challenge the MadoMagis will ever show up.

I'm starting to feel like that too, I even wonder if they repeat a championship win they get backlashed severely like Saki this year in AST 2014. Overdomination in Saimoe makes me wish the admins put the series who is threatening to overdominate in the same block or arrange blocks via strength instead of repcharging.

Prediction- Ayase and Tomoka
Picks- Miborin and Tomoka

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Gohan78

Yeah, the rule that "we don't reveal the multivotes if the outcome of the match isn't reversed" is ridiculous. People will inevitably think that the mods are helping the MadoMagi girls. I am a Madoka fan but I want a clean victory.

I don't necessarily think that the MadoMagi girls are getting helped directly, but I do think that Saki is getting screwed, which makes things easier for the MadoMagi girls.

Like yourself, I don't like it.

I think that Mami would have won cleanly even if Saki wasn't getting screwed, but Mami vs. Toki would then have been closer, and hence would be more exciting and seem more legit.

The 2011 dominating faction vs. The 2012 dominating faction, with it being close between them, could be a good narrative, imo. But with the 2012 faction dropping like a rock, it's just pure domination. Three years in a row of that for J-SaiMoe isn't good.

Like yourself, I am a Madoka fan, but I hope that somebody can rise up enough to at least come across as a good challenge to the MadoMagi girls. I hope that someone out of Ayase, Kuroneko, GuP, Tomoka, Yoshino, and Watashi can rise up to provide a good challenge. I also hope that Sayaka defeats Eru, but I hope that it's not another curbstomp.

[kerori25]

tl;dr Hi guys, I'm just randomly coming to this site to do a long conclusive rant complaining about this year, which started out interesting and ended faster than ever before in Japanese Saimoe history. Please excuse my randomness I guess, but people would be mad if i release so much info on my usual forum but I still want to let some frustration out.


After following saimoe for 5 years I guess now its finally time to stop for me. Gone were the days when you had absolutely no idea who will win until the grand finals was over. 3 years of single-faction dominance is bad enough, but personally I found this year particularly unacceptable even though I have been backing madoka.

In 2011 madoka dominance was justified because it's not us manipulating stuff, but opponents being too weak. At least the "unwanted" Chinese voters (Mikoto/Kanade on the surface, squid girl/kuroneko/madoka more hidden and mixed with large amounts of Jap votes) kept things interesting until top 8. In 2012 Saki dominance was again justified, because it's not their fault that their biggest opponent Rie chose to ally instead of putting on a fight. It was a less exciting year compared to 2011 but at least akari was a big hopeful, things remained interesting until she fell, which was at least B group finals.


Now this year everything started good and peaceful, with most Japanese and the Chinese voters (mostly bystanders now) hoping to see some of each (madoka, saki, kyoani, and strong individuals from groups EFG) in top 8. Even the yearly ritual of everybody else anti-ing hinagiku stayed the same, which i think hayate fans like myself got used to long ago. All's nice until the fateful day of 9/20, when the madoka faction's multi-voters were so greedy that they wanted to let mami dominate while keeping both homura and madoka AND clear the way for kyouko by anti-ing shinka, needless to say they bite off way more than they could chew. Yet later they decide to release their anger and go on a massacre to completely kill the fun for everyone else before round 3 was even over.

3 days immediately after 9/20 madoka multi-voters went all in to anti ako, even the big multi-voters in the saki faction did not see this coming, let alone casual fans. Suddenly 10/06's deadlock was solved and saki lost A and B to madoka weeks before the group finals even happened, anyone hoping for the matsumi sisters to win after ako fell is just wishful thinking. Then even group D, which was filled with saki characters, was given up after eating 200+ of anti from madoka alone. This was just a show of madoka dominance when they fully knew it was not even necessary, similar to the whole we-beat-your-fake-votes-with-real-votes thing in 2011. All the saki faction wanted now was to just let nodoka, their leader for 4 years, to go on. But no, she doesn't even get to meet watashi on the other side, because the admins decided to step in again and kill her real votes with the new suspicion policy [for the uninformed, I say again because it's generally agreed that vote-changing has only happened twice in the entire history of japanese saimoe, one of which was the alleged fake-to-real vote change between saki vs k-on (the other was the alleged nothing-to-real incident in senjougahara vs mafuyu). At least they tried to keep quite about it last time, not anymore]. That killed saki once and for all, as if they haven't already fell apart when ako was gone.

Kyoani this year did not even have a faction (at least not in japan and china, I have no idea about international groups), it's more like just random fans of each of the anime. That did not stop madoka's firm anti of shinka, most lost hope against madoka thereafter, as can be seen from the low vote turnouts for rikka the next day, and how everyone who survives just sucks up to madoka now and does not even dare to fight back.

Anti votes and multi-voters are of course nothing new and has been in every sort of popular saimoe that every existed, let alone the 2ch one that started it all. But what's especially sad about this year is the girls getting treated like trash and easily discarded afterwards. Look no further than the significant drop in votes of saki-killer miho, and kyoani-killer azusa, and the inevitable day when madoka revives from ayase's body and ro-kyu-bu fading into irrelevance. Meanwhile other characters in previous Jap-saimoes who only won because of anti-votes had always had a powerful fanbase to begin with, and successfuly fought on despite being abandoned. From the oldest tales of Rena (the blade that shed the blood of its master), to the miracles achieved by the apparently unpopular Louise, to the clannad faction in 2008, to the most recent stories like the chained battles in block A&B of 2011, with both Jap and CN mass-anti parties got a taste of their own medicine and both ultimately lost to characters they previously used to do evil.

[Tainaka]

Been watching and reading from the sidelines as usual. But I did want to chime in and say a few things.

One is that I actually do like the idea of a repeat champ. Regardless of who it is, that is a Saimoe feat. It's never been done in this tourney and honestly that just means the girl who achieves it, regardless of who it is, is all the more legit. It's just like any other tournament-- a two-time or three-time winner CAN happen-- they didn't become a previous champ for no reason. I know you all would like to see something different happen, but we can't forget that yeah, there's champs out there and because of that they are beast. There needs to be someone that can overthrow the champ everytime unless that champ retires. See, another way I see it is, that person will have all that champion-age under their belt and then when the time comes that they finally fall to someone, now that's what will make things exciting (who the hell will be able to accomplish that? Someone will and to find out who will be entertaining for me anyway) If Mami wins again, I believe she will be coming back next year because of the movie, maybe? Then we could see who will hold their own against a two-time champ.

Another thing: It's Saimoe and anything can happen, regardless of all the fake votes and removal of suspicious code, I can understand they are trying to keep the tournament within their bounds and rules.. having done it in the middle of the tourney was a bit of a downer because of the removal of high votes (which was exciting) and the girls that had already played their turn and succumbed to the votes within the previous rules, however I can understand they are trying to make it a legit tourney by their standards. More and more people want to vote, but they started it the way they wanted and had the idea that it would be a Japanese 2ch game. It was their choice who's votes they wanted to allow in the beginning and although we think its fun and awesome and we want to partake, that's not what they wanted apparently.

So basically how I see it: Whatever happens, happens. Whoever is strong, is strong. I'm not going to point fingers and I'm not going to accuse admins of favoring something because that in itself ruins the fun. I'm just going to watch like I have been and in my mind I will believe there's no foul-play going on behind the scenes. If there were, and we somehow found out that kind of info, then that's when I would feel down and say oh well but it was fun while it lasted, regardless. Thing is, we don't know though, so really I just feel we should all keep the idea in our minds that nothing stupid is going on behind the scenes and everything is just Saimoe. Just my opinions and everyone's entitled to their own, but we all started off enjoying it, so we might as well continue to until who knows.

[Zeroryoko1974]

Going wuth Ayase and kana hana basketball loli

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Tainaka

Been watching and reading from the sidelines as usual. But I did want to chime in and say a few things.

One is that I actually do like the idea of a repeat champ. Regardless of who it is, that is a Saimoe feat. It's never been done in this tourney and honestly that just means the girl who achieves it, regardless of who it is, is all the more legit. It's just like any other tournament-- a two-time or three-time winner CAN happen-- they didn't become a previous champ for no reason. I know you all would like to see something different happen, but we can't forget that yeah, there's champs out there and because of that they are beast.

Just so you know, I would consider Mami repeating as J-SaiMoe Champion to be one of my five most preferred possible results. I wasn't fond of the idea earlier on in the tournament, but I am warming up to it.

While I do like the idea of "spreading the love around" and different girls getting to be in the championship spotlight, there are a few reasons why I'd be fine with a Mami repeat:

1. I feel like she doesn't get much respect for her considerable J-SaiMoe accomplishments to date. If she was to repeat as champion, that would probably change.

2. I think it would be nice to have a repeat moe competition champion at some point (this applies to ISML as well). It's nice, I think, to see new heights reached and new records/precedents set from time-to-time.

3. I like Mami a lot. She's a very moe and classy character that I think would make a good star in the world of moe.


Those points being made, my personal favorite is still Sayaka. But after Sayaka, there's a handful of girls that are all around the same spot for me, and Mami is in that mix.

[OverFunk]

Well now it's a good time to return here, where I got started with all.

I followed since 2006 and after joking about Kagami and Azucat killing Saimoe, we get to the actual moment a fanbase managed to kill Saimoe for real, not without the help of the admins of course.

frustra and I left the yearly thread in 2011 because it had lost all entertainment and didn't want to see that only a few people decided how the whole thing went. But we still wanted to believe it was a temporary thing and just moved base to a place more fun. This year was just too much though.

I never thought I would be done with this, but this is what the new admin team wanted apparently. Kill it from inside.

Thanks for all the good moments and the bad moments.

[Coldlight]

Originally Posted by OverFunk

frustra and I left the yearly thread in 2011 because it had lost all entertainment and didn't want to see that only a few people decided how the whole thing went. But we still wanted to believe it was a temporary thing and just moved base to a place more fun. This year was just too much though.

It's good to see a statement coming directly from one of the absent AST veterans I mentioned in a post not too long ago.

Your statement pretty much confirms my inner thoughts about why you, frustra and many of the other regulars of this tournament stopped coming back - the general sharp decline of the tournament due to boneheaded decisions by the organizers. Seishi mentioned something similar to me about his retirement from the AST scene months before Saimoe 2012 started: it was a mess. And it really has been for a few years now... just from looking at the low vote totals and the recent scandals rocking the tournament one can see how far it has fallen from its glory days.

I never thought I would be done with this, but this is what the new admin team wanted apparently. Kill it from inside.

Thanks for all the good moments and the bad moments.

While it's good to see your familiar name in this thread again, it's also sad to know that this is also where it ends for you. I still remember how you and Wanderer put me in my place after my careless insinuations when I was still a rookie in these threads.

Thanks for the memories, good sir.

[iamadooddood]

Originally Posted by Gohan78

Yeah, the rule that "we don't reveal the multivotes if the outcome of the match isn't reversed" is ridiculous. People will inevitably think that the mods are helping the MadoMagi girls. I am a Madoka fan but I want a clean victory.

If this is Saki's true level of strenght, I have to suspect that they were helped by multivotes in most of the Round 1-2 matches.

And I'm saying, this could not have been Saki's true level of strength, unless you're also saying that this is the true level of strength for other non-MadoMagi factions too, which I don't think is the case.

The fact that Azusa got less than 40% of the votes she got in round 3 alone (and slightly less than in round 2) already raises suspicious eyebrows.

Originally Posted by Subayai

I find it a little bit disappointing that Azusa only raised about the same amount of votes as Toki. Even if Saki's strength is gone now, there should still be a significant amount of neutral voters who maybe wouldn't support a former winner like Toki but would still support a non-faction newcomer like Azusa. It's getting harder and harder to believe that a strong opponent who will challenge the MadoMagis will ever show up.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I don't necessarily think that the MadoMagi girls are getting helped directly, but I do think that Saki is getting screwed, which makes things easier for the MadoMagi girls.

I've been thinking of the possibility that most a lot of non-MadoMagi voters are boycotting AST, which would explain the fall in votes for girls that are not just from Saki. As shown, MadoMagi is clearly the only faction benefiting from the new rule.

@kerori25: Yeah, I figured pretty much.

Though I also think that regarding the suspicious codes, they've been removing it even before they officially announced it. At the very least, Shinka and Rikka have been affected by it.

@Tainaka: If you like how they did everything until now, then I can't stop you.

It's just that even a LOT of people on 2ch are complaining about it, and so I don't think it'll last long on 2ch if that was the case.


To those who don't mind Mami winning again: I've decided to take a neutral stance, but honestly? Her second win will be marred by the effects of this new rule. In fact, this'd apply to any winner of this Saimoe.


EDIT: Still no help... ugh. I give up. I've decided to calculate why Kyubey is BSing on contracting magical girls reducing entropy.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by iamadooddood

To those who don't mind Mami winning again: I've decided to take a neutral stance, but honestly? Her second win will be marred by the effects of this new rule. In fact, this'd apply to any winner of this Saimoe.

Her being a previous champion might give it a little more legitimacy. But certainly, if the non-Madoka girls keep failing to show up, and if a Madoka girl wins it all, then yeah, it's going to look very suspicious and take some of the shine away from winning.


I see three possibilities here:

1) The admins are dealing with actual cheating (perhaps strictly on the part of Saki), but their handling of the PR side has been poor, raising suspicions and vote boycotts.

2) The admins are intentionally screwing over Saki, and they don't care who wins as long as it's nobody from Saki. However, this is having the side-effect of helping Madoka, and likely creating vote boycotts for non-Madoka girls.

3) The admins are intentionally helping Madoka by screwing over non-Madoka girls in general (i.e. not just Saki). They want a Madoka girl to win.


Are non-Madoka girls suddenly doing more poorly because their voters are boycotting the tournament, or is it because a good chunk of their legit votes are being thrown out unjustly? Of course, even if it is the latter, it could soon turn into the former.

Sadly, I don't know if there's any way to know for certain.

[iamadooddood]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Her being a previous champion might give it a little more legitimacy. But certainly, if the non-Madoka girls keep failing to show up, and if a Madoka girl wins it all, then yeah, it's going to look very suspicious and take some of the shine away from winning.


I see three possibilities here:

1) The admins are dealing with actual cheating (perhaps strictly on the part of Saki), but their handling of the PR side has been poor, raising suspicions and vote boycotts regardless.

2) The admins are intentionally screwing over Saki, and they don't care who wins as long as it's nobody from Saki. However, this is having the side-effect of helping Madoka, and likely creating vote boycotts for non-Madoka girls.

3) The admins are intentionally helping Madoka by screwing over non-Madoka girls in general (i.e. not just Saki). They want a Madoka girl to win, and they will act like heel Vince McMahon to make it happen.


Are non-Madoka girls suddenly doing more poorly because their voters are boycotting the tournament, or is it because a good chunk of their legit votes are being thrown out unjustly? Of course, even if it is the latter, it could soon turn into the former.

Sadly, I don't know if there's any way to know for certain.

Actual cheating that went unnoticed for one entire tournament last year? Really? Even if that was the case, then Chuu2's strength wouldn't have been compromised just like that. In fact, there could be cheating on MadoMagi's part too, and we wouldn't be any the wiser.

I'm more inclined towards 2), but that's just me. All we have is circumstantial evidence to work with.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by iamadooddood

I'm more inclined towards 2), but that's just me. All we have is circumstantial evidence to work with.

I'm leaning towards 2) myself, because it makes the most sense to me. I could understand the J-SaiMoe admins being pissed at what Saki did to the tournament last year, and not wanting them to win again this year. Perhaps Yuu came too close to Mami for the admins' comfort (especially since Toki should be stronger than Yuu), and they decided they weren't going to risk Saki winning again, and so the rule change against Saki would now be put in starting half-way through Round 3.

Also, if the admins were hardcore about Madoka winning it all, then I don't think the blocks would have shaken out to force Madoka and Homura into a 2nd round match against each other and Ayase.


If this is correct, then there's a sad irony here. In punishing Saki for their level of domination hurting J-SaiMoe 2012, they're only serving to hurt J-SaiMoe 2013.

[Tainaka]

Originally Posted by iamadooddood

@Tainaka: If you like how they did everything until now, then I can't stop you.

It's just that even a LOT of people on 2ch are complaining about it, and so I don't think it'll last long on 2ch if that was the case.
.

Well it's not really until now that I dislike something. I've disliked tons of voting shenanigans and downfalls and what not through the years, however what I was saying is that I didn't want to simply give up or abandon the tourney like many others over a suspicion that hasn't even been proven yet.
Sure things may seem iffy and there are a lot of unanswered questions this year, but that's not going to stop me from sitting back and watching the results and keeping my hopes up for my favorites.

I know the people over at 2ch complain, but so do all of us, and that's something either they're gunna work out with the organizers/admins or they'll just abandon. Whatever happens is what happens. If this tourney does die out then all I can really say is it's been fun.


I mean who knows, the tournament might take a 180 degree turn next year and set up a whole new system to filter out the quirks (even though that's what they've supposedly been trying to do). But some of this stuff (the complaining and what not) might finally push the admins to decide on a change. Point is we won't know til the time comes and I guess I'm just saying I'll be sittin around to see what the future brings.

[Hachiko]

Originally Posted by OverFunk

Well now it's a good time to return here, where I got started with all.

I followed since 2006 and after joking about Kagami and Azucat killing Saimoe, we get to the actual moment a fanbase managed to kill Saimoe for real, not without the help of the admins of course.

frustra and I left the yearly thread in 2011 because it had lost all entertainment and didn't want to see that only a few people decided how the whole thing went. But we still wanted to believe it was a temporary thing and just moved base to a place more fun. This year was just too much though.

I never thought I would be done with this, but this is what the new admin team wanted apparently. Kill it from inside.

Thanks for all the good moments and the bad moments.

I bet you that you'll come out of the woodwork not before long, but in the meantime, nice knowing you.

[AP24]

Thanks to the "we don't reveal the multivotes if the outcome of the match isn't reversed|" rule, the statistics of this year's tournament are pretty much ruined.

For yesterday's matches, it looks like Mami and Kyouko would still win by quite large margins even if the multivotes were removed. So I guess the 2011 champion is a lot better than the 2012 champion.

Looks like the Madoka Magica faction is the strongest this year. Which means the Madoka Magica voters will be voting for Ayase so that Madoka can go to the Losers Block. If Madoka and Sayaka make to the Final 16 then this is 2011 all over again which 4 Madoka Magica girls except Homura are in the final stage of the tournament. Poor Homura.

Azuki Azusa lost but Kaori Ishihara supporters will vote for Ryuuka in today's matches. Though it's most likely Mokkan will win against Ryuuka. It would be sad to see Kaori Ishihara characters lost two days in a row.

[Team Rocket Elite]

Matches: Ef Gf

Yoshino had a solid win over Shizuno last rounds but it's hard to say what that means anymore. Kobato had an easy with over Sakurako but Sakuroko isn't that strong. I have faith in Kobato's ability so I'll choose her. Yoshino could win, though. Kuroneko vs Akari is a tough match. Akari should probably be the favourite here but I think I'll pick Kuroneko to win here. Fortunately the loser here just goes to repechage.

Votes:
Hasegawa Kobato
Kuroneko (Gokou Ruri)

Predictions:
Hasegawa Kobato
Kuroneko (Gokou Ruri)

[spirits having flown]

The mystery of Saimoe still confounds me. What influences fans to vote for their respective characters? So far, I can think of the following:

- the strength of the series as a whole
- the characters and their development
- the charm through their character design
- the seiyuu voicing these characters

Of course, not everything is on the sunny side of things; factors that could more or less affect the performance of a character would be:

- a seiyuu getting married or is in a relationship
- staff getting involved with screwing other seiyuu (think Kokoro Connect)
- an anime that has already run the course of its lifespan

Having said that, how long do you think the characters in the popular franchises have left in their tank for the future Saimoe tournaments? Better yet, how long do we get to keep our interests if the mods keep changing the rules over time and not open this tourney to outsiders?

[Subayai]

Well, the code generator went down again on the last minutes of voting. It could be another DoS attack. I notice on the tracker that Miho had gained a little ground on Ayase during the last hour of the match. I wonder if someone noticed this and, expecting the tendency to continue, crashed the code generator to prevent the late voters from getting their code. It's just speculation but it makes me wonder.