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MeisterBabylon · 2012-09-19, 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

It's just sad... That after three games, Shepard is told that he wasted his time. Everything he worked for is for naught, because it is canon that he can't beat the Reapers at all.

A weird message to send, isn't it? It would be like reaching the final castle as Mario, only to have him fall on his knees against Bowser, and Princess Peach was lost forever.

Oh yeah, come to think of it, even Sisko had a better deal when it came to the endgame.

willx · 2012-09-19, 09:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

It's just sad... That after three games, Shepard is told that he wasted his time. Everything he worked for is for naught, because it is canon that he can't beat the Reapers at all.

A weird message to send, isn't it? It would be like reaching the final castle as Mario, only to have him fall on his knees against Bowser, and Princess Peach was lost forever.

I'm actually more concerned about how cavalier the writers were about destroying all the mass relays.. When they kept saying over and over again that it was now integral to civilization as they knew it.

Everyone on the Citadel, remote fuel stations and on mining planets/asteroids are going to starve to death and the galaxy will revert back to the dark ages..

james0246 · 2012-09-19, 09:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Makes sense since even in Refuse and you lose the war the next Generation wins no matter what by accepting the Reapers proposal.

Wait, is this canon? I thought the next generation won because they were better informed and had the technology needed to fight and defeat the Reapers, not because they simply accepted the Catalyst's proposal?

Quote:

Originally Posted by willx

I'm actually more concerned about how cavalier the writers were about destroying all the mass relays.. When they kept saying over and over again that it was now integral to civilization as they knew it.

The mass relays are a crutch that hinders the growth and development of all life (whether organic or synthetic) in the galaxy. Besides retconning the explosion, I have no problem with the loss of life over the loss of the mass relays.

Destined_Fate · 2012-09-19, 10:09

No, Liara left a little AI/VI thing for them which told the next generation not to make their mistake since Refuse killed everyone.

james0246 · 2012-09-19, 10:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

No, Liara left a little AI/VI thing for them which told the next generation not to make their mistake since Refuse killed everyone.

I didn't get that at all. I saw the message left by Liara (which was sent out before all the crap with the Catalyst was known), as info on the Reapers, their weaknesses, and how and why they fight (as well as potentially the designs for the "The Crucible", though without the Prothean VI there would be no way of knowing that the Citadel is the Catalyst so there would be no way of using the Crucible). I never once thought that the new beacon simply led to the next generations surrender.

willx · 2012-09-19, 10:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by james0246

I didn't get that at all. I saw the message left by Liara (which was sent out before all the crap with the Catalyst was known), as info on the Reapers, their weaknesses, and how and why they fight (as well as potentially the designs for the "The Crucible", though without the Prothean VI there would be no way of knowing that the Citadel is the Catalyst so there would be no way of using the Crucible). I never once thought that the new beacon simply led to the next generations surrender.

Wasn't it stated that the "memory capsule" she left to the next generation thoroughly prepared them and then they actually beat the reapers conventionally?

james0246 · 2012-09-19, 10:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by willx

Wasn't it stated that the "memory capsule" she left to the next generation thoroughly prepared them and then they actually beat the reapers conventionally?

That's what I thought happened, but Destined_Fate words have confused me

...

RWBladewing · 2012-09-19, 10:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by james0246

That's what I thought happened, but Destined_Fate words have confused me

...

This was what many people thought was implied in the ending itself but a Bioware employee posted on twitter that the next generation did in fact use the Crucible anyway.

https://twitter.com/GambleMike/statu...70232138301440

Vallen Chaos Valiant · 2012-09-19, 10:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by james0246

Wait, is this canon? I thought the next generation won because they were better informed and had the technology needed to fight and defeat the Reapers, not because they simply accepted the Catalyst's proposal?

The Mass Effect team said that "If you choose the Refuse ending, then everyone dies, and the next generation of resistance will simply pick one of the three choices."

In short, no matter what, the Reaper wins.

james0246 · 2012-09-19, 10:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by RWBladewing

This was what many people thought was implied in the ending itself but a Bioware employee posted on twitter that the next generation did in fact use the Crucible anyway.

https://twitter.com/GambleMike/statu...70232138301440

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

The Mass Effect team said that "If you choose the Refuse ending, then everyone dies, and the next generation of resistance will simply pick one of the three choices."

In short, no matter what, the Reaper wins.

Well...that sucks.

Skane · 2012-09-19, 10:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by james0246

Well...that sucks.

I am imagining Liara's ghost making a rage-face now.

FlareKnight · 2012-09-19, 12:08

I still can't believe how badly they messed up that ending. Can't believe it seemed like a good idea to make Shepard's journey seem pointless. In the end all you can do is what the Reapers allow you to do. Sad that until that DLC you couldn't even say "let the chips fall where they may."

Don't think it was all about getting a happy ending, though I don't think it would have hurt to have a way to get there

. Though still think one of the more disappointing points was seeing how little your recruitment mattered. Would have been nice to see all the forces coming into play

In terms of whatever is next for Mass Effect I'd assume a more prevalent multiplayer mode. They've probably seen the money flowing in from the DLC or weapons packs and considering this is EA they should want to milk the series for as much money as possible.

Flying Dagger · 2012-09-19, 15:05

I dislike the plot (and end) of ME3 because it fails to really capture me. Silly politicians still trying to go about their old grudges when a much greater threat looms over the horizon.

If it is obvious that the galaxy combined would have trouble stopping the reapers, then I can't help but to punch some faces when the game forces me to pick between factions (if not playing as an imported character).

Throughout the game there were a lot of hints towards the idea of "reapers are just a part of a greater cycle". I suspect this would be played out in future extensions of the series?

Reapers are not invincible. Their major weakness imo, would be their slow replenishment rate. I had hoped (before release) that the destruction of the harbinger's vessel would shine new lights onto how to defeat reapers.

Key Board · 2012-09-19, 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

The Mass Effect team said that "If you choose the Refuse ending, then everyone dies, and the next generation of resistance will simply pick one of the three choices."

In short, no matter what, the Reaper wins.

Reapers want synthesis

I'm pretty sure they don't want the other 2 options

Vallen Chaos Valiant · 2012-09-19, 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Key Board

Reapers want synthesis

I'm pretty sure they don't want the other 2 options

Destroy kills all Geth. Not desirable but at least they died achieving what they were created for. Mission Accomplished.

Control gave them Shepard. You know, the person who's corpse they tried to get, who they wanted to revive and incorporate into a Reaper.

Each has different results, but aid the Reapers in one way or another.

Key Board · 2012-09-19, 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Destroy kills all Geth. Not desirable but at least they died achieving what they were created for. Mission Accomplished.

Control gave them Shepard. You know, the person who's corpse they tried to get, who they wanted to revive and incorporate into a Reaper.

Each has different results, but aid the Reapers in one way or another.

I know you don't like the endings, but I must say it seems as if you are projecting too much in your interpretations of the endings.

Destroying the geth was never their objective. Their goal is to preserve the remains of a harvested species in Reaper form.

If they are destroyed they have failed their primary objective, and they can not continue the cycle. So in their predetermined conclusion, the next cycle will fall to synthetics without their guidance. Thus, choosing Destroy is organics choosing suicide in their minds. Which I don't think is their intention.

Or are you trying to say they are playing the villain like Zero in Code Geass? In other words, they are becoming something so atrocious as to set an example and warning for future generations about the dangers of synthetics? Hmm.. that does put the Reapers in a heroic light.. twisted.. but interesting.

Control has them Shepard as their leader, and everything suggest that Shepard is in control for now. If you're going to say that Shepard is going to reach the same conclusion as them after several aeons then well.. that's tragic, but I think that also makes an interesting story.

Destined_Fate · 2012-09-19, 21:05

Destroy is the only choice they would hate but they decide to give Shepard that option anyway because they're either really dumb, they have faith Shepard will use their logic, or something isn't right. Synthesis is perfect and their end goal while Control is okay since Shepard "Does" die and lives on through a Shepard AI Reaper whose ending shows that he/she is going to do whatever it takes to uphold its order. Which will obviously lead to war against organics rebelling against Dictator Shepard who is forced to wipe them out.

Keroko · 2012-09-20, 00:26

I actually hope that the next Mass Effect game will be less about some ancient galactic enemy, and more about chasing down the problems of the current galaxy. Smaller scale plots, so to speak, and expand more on what's already there.

Three games with Garrus, and we never visited Palaven. We visited Thessia and Sur'Kesh, but never got to explore it. I'd like more of the space-cop we tended to do in-between the whole reaper thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

The Mass Effect team said that "If you choose the Refuse ending, then everyone dies, and the next generation of resistance will simply pick one of the three choices."

In short, no matter what, the Reaper wins.

Got a source on that one?

Vallen Chaos Valiant · 2012-09-20, 00:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keroko

Got a source on that one?

The twitter from one post above mine.
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...postcount=3470

I got my info elsewhere, but that post is evidence enough.

Drake · 2012-09-20, 14:52

It only implies they used the crucible it doesn't say how they used the though, we already know the crucibles design changed from cycle to cycle so who's to say they didn't finally perfect it to kill the reapers?

2012-09-19, 12:08	Link #3472
FlareKnight User of the "Fast Draw" Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Canada	I still can't believe how badly they messed up that ending. Can't believe it seemed like a good idea to make Shepard's journey seem pointless. In the end all you can do is what the Reapers allow you to do. Sad that until that DLC you couldn't even say "let the chips fall where they may." Don't think it was all about getting a happy ending, though I don't think it would have hurt to have a way to get there . Though still think one of the more disappointing points was seeing how little your recruitment mattered. Would have been nice to see all the forces coming into play In terms of whatever is next for Mass Effect I'd assume a more prevalent multiplayer mode. They've probably seen the money flowing in from the DLC or weapons packs and considering this is EA they should want to milk the series for as much money as possible. __________________ Anime-Evo

2012-09-20, 14:52	Link #3480
Drake dn ʎɐʍ sıɥʇ Graphic Designer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Northern Ireland	It only implies they used the crucible it doesn't say how they used the though, we already know the crucibles design changed from cycle to cycle so who's to say they didn't finally perfect it to kill the reapers? __________________

2012-09-19, 10:09	Link #3464
Destined_Fate Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: "Sacrifice one to appease the few."	No, Liara left a little AI/VI thing for them which told the next generation not to make their mistake since Refuse killed everyone.

2012-09-19, 15:05	Link #3473
Flying Dagger 大巧不工 Join Date: Dec 2003	I dislike the plot (and end) of ME3 because it fails to really capture me. Silly politicians still trying to go about their old grudges when a much greater threat looms over the horizon. If it is obvious that the galaxy combined would have trouble stopping the reapers, then I can't help but to punch some faces when the game forces me to pick between factions (if not playing as an imported character). Throughout the game there were a lot of hints towards the idea of "reapers are just a part of a greater cycle". I suspect this would be played out in future extensions of the series? Reapers are not invincible. Their major weakness imo, would be their slow replenishment rate. I had hoped (before release) that the destruction of the harbinger's vessel would shine new lights onto how to defeat reapers.

2012-09-19, 21:05	Link #3477
Destined_Fate Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: "Sacrifice one to appease the few."	Destroy is the only choice they would hate but they decide to give Shepard that option anyway because they're either really dumb, they have faith Shepard will use their logic, or something isn't right. Synthesis is perfect and their end goal while Control is okay since Shepard "Does" die and lives on through a Shepard AI Reaper whose ending shows that he/she is going to do whatever it takes to uphold its order. Which will obviously lead to war against organics rebelling against Dictator Shepard who is forced to wipe them out.