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Originally Posted by LevelSeven
first BIB: au contraire, until now it is strangely like that, kuroko and touma are prime exampels  |
No. In their cases, it is outright stated that Mikoto reduces the intensity of her current so that they won't be badly hurt. It's not exactly safe, but not deadly either. You noted this yourself.
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second BIB: it should happen like that, but if someone with normal human endurance manages to get up shortly after being hit several times (despite mikoto holding back unconsciously) and this without aftereffects i wouldnt set it past a saint to survive it too (yeah, they are as 'fragile' as humans but after they use their powers they obviously get a endurance boost because a human bod wouldnt survive mach 1 movement...)
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That's why it would take 100 or even 1000 bolts to beat Brunhild. I acknowledge that the damage each attack inflicts is low, but since unlike with the High Priest the damage is not 0, I affirm that enough attacks would defeat a Saint.
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third BIB: a good way to turn back a seemingly doomed situation on the other hand, forcing someone to work at someones limits can easily cause this too, brun forces mikoto to fight on this concentration-lvl for 10 minutes or more would only become harming for her... (the LN never showed a sign of it but the same is for bruns aftereffects against the lightning :/ )
in short: it could cause such things, but it didnt give us the smallest signs that it would happen :/
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Actually, a protracted battle would be far harder on Brunhild than on Mikoto. Here's yet another quote from OT4:
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Originally Posted by OT4
The continuous movements that were beyond an ordinary human body’s capabilities caused Kanzaki’s body temperature to rise abnormally, her blood flow was pulsating crazily, she was severely lacking oxygen, and her muscles and bones were creaking. That pain went beyond the fever; it could be said to be worse than taking poison.
But Kanzaki didn’t stop.
With such savage and suicidal intent, she continued to hack at the water wings one by one, not letting up.
Kanzaki Kaori was holding off the angel’s attacks, getting closer to death.
Every move she took, she could clearly feel her body being eroded. Every time she swung the Shichiten Shichitou, the overwork would rip her joints and twitch her blood vessels. The organs that were unable to get enough oxygen were prompting Kanzaki’s brain in pain.
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As you pointed out, a normal body wouldn't be able to handle supersonic movements. A Saint's spells also increase their physical endurance so that they can function even at those crazy speeds, but that is not a perfect solution.
In a very real sense, the greatest danger to a Saint in battle usually doesn't come from their enemies, but from their selves. Even if it is no more than a millionth of the power of Christ, that's still way more than a human body can handle. Even using it normally kills them bit by bit every second. Losing control even for a hundredth of a second would kill them instantly.
Leaving aside a double Saint like Acqua (and possibly Silvia, since apparently she gets extra power from being a Royal Maid), for a normal Saint, any use of their power that drags on for more than a few minutes becomes agonizing. That's why Kaori usually uses cars and other normal means of transportation for long distance travel. Their supersonic movements aren't just meant to overwhelm the opponent, but also to cut the time they need to spend fighting to the bare minimum. Most enemies won't even last a minute, so in 99.99% of cases, it isn't a problem.
Fighting Mikoto is clearly not as taxing as fighting Misha, but even so, letting the battle drag on for longer than needed would have been pure idiocy on Brunhild's part. In a battle of attrition, Brunhild would wear down faster than Mikoto. Add the fact that Mikoto was also inflicting a little damage, no matter how small, and you have a recipie for disaster.
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i doubt that she understaminates her enemys but birdways even while holding back was able to get victory if mikotos railgun hadnt involved itself...
plus, brun had the upper hand over the whle fight, on the other hand mikoto was mostly on the defense, the latter even needed to use her most powerful move :/ at least for me it doesnt sound like someone who would go all out if it wasnt necessary :/
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Battles are fickle things. Even if you spend 99% of the battle clearly on top, you can still lose at the very last second due to unexpected factors. Just look at Knight Leader vs Acqua, or Acqua himself vs Kaori, the Amakusa and Touma. Heck, Brunhild experienced this herself when she fought Kaori with the 70% Gungnir.
After losing one battle she thought she would win hands down, do you really believe she would risk making the same mistake again? Even Accelerator, who is brain damaged, learned not to underestimate level 0s after his defeat.
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BIB: i dont agree completly, she is serious in what she does but she doesnt do it without thinking, in NT10 the inner monologues showed that she was thinking about a possibility that othinus would have lost her power forever,
on the other hand if her performance would be unaffected othinus would be dead since they met with her (the best and most simple route)...
she can be cruel if she wants to, (kaori SS) but she wasnt, not even in NT10 (exspecially since there was no personal grudge between her and her opponents)...
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Actually:
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Originally Posted by NT10
Brunhild Eiktobel narrowed her clever eyes.
She stabbed her large sword into the snow and dryly observed. As she watched, a wooden bench was smashed to pieces and an eyepatch-wearing girl lay in the center of the rubble.
She had not held back.
In fact, she had been more cautious than necessary.
(She’s showing surprisingly little resistance.)
That was her honest opinion.
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The text outright says she did not hold back. In other words, as I said, her performance did not drop. There are two reasons Othinus didn't die:
1) Brunhild was weary of Othinus' power, not aware that she had lost most of it. She might have attacked with less ferocity because of this.
2) Othinus is a Magic God, not a human. Even on the very brink of death from the Fairy Spell, we saw she still had the power to fire the Crossbow once, which could destroy the Earth several times over. She could take punishment a lot better than Touma.
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of course, but not always is 100% needed :/
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But you can't know in advance when 100% is needed and when it is not, so why risk it? Again, Brunhild should know this because she learned it the hard way.
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wouldnt both work?
killing and holding her back both stop her from getting into birdway vs touma (and with that into the fight with Frau as price)...
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It's more efficient to commit to one strategy or the other. Either kill, or hold back and stall. Doing things half-way just makes it less likely to achieve either goal. So to answer your question, no, both wouldn't work.
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why going all out against someone who isnt even a inevitable enemy? NT10 showed that she doesnt like killing, at least she doesnt kill without reason, and she also thinks about the pros and cons, othinus was a wild card and she could become dangerous for the boy so she thought that killing her was the better choice,
mikoto on the other hand was someone fighting for touma and actually didnt even have a real role in the whole mess... killing her wouldnt help anyone...
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What Brunhild dislikes isn't the act of killing per se. Just read the lines that come directly after your quote:
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Originally Posted by NT10
She herself was a magician whose power increased and decreased between extremes on a set cycle, much like the waxing and waning of the moon. A cruel magic cabal had once taken advantage of that and destroyed those around her.
She was doing the same here.
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What she disliked was that she was acting no different from the cabal that tormented her. Killing itself is fine, but killing an opponent in a moment of weakness when they can't use their power is distasteful.
Mikoto was fully able to use her power and had no handicaps hindering her, so Brunhild wouldn't find the idea of killing her displeasing in the slightest. You asked me why Brunhild should kill someone who isn't necessarily an enemy. Let me flip that question around for you. Why should Brunhild go through so much trouble to spare someone who isn't even an ally?
Brunhild isn't Kaori. She isn't a kindly soul who honestly wishes for the salvation of every person on the planet. She cares for the wellbeing of one person and one alone, and she was perfectly willing to complete Gungnir and devastate the world to protect him. Everyone else can go to hell for all she cares. If Mikoto, her sisters, her family and friends all died in a fire, Brunhild wouldn't shed a single tear.
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BIB: who said that she needed them? from the beginning she had the upper hand, i cant remember a part where she was in serious danger, using spells to kill someone who wasnt even involved with the real stuff and only played a side role while exposing potential weaknesses doesnt make sense does it?  (exspecially for someone who can think about the matter calmly like brun showed in NT10)
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Your argument is flawed. You see, Brunhild already has a few, major, known and exploitable weaknesses: she's a Saint and a Valkyrie. Stigmata provide part of Christ's power, but they also provide weaknesses to the symbols of his death, which are exploited by spells like the Saint Destroyer. I assume Valkyries have similar weaknesses. Furthermore, her two powers conflict with each other, sometimes leaving her with no power at all.
Anyone trying to attack Brunhild by analyzing her would attack these weaknesses. She loses nothing by showing all her cards, because the enemy already knows what cards she has.
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she did ask her if she was a enemy:
on the other hand mikto initiated the fight after hearing thors "explanation" :/
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Again, nicely spotted. It doesn't change my argument much, though.
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you mean the graviton bomb?
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I was thinking more along the lines of the battle with Frenda, but there's more than that. The thing is, between TAMNI, Railgun and all the other spin-offs, Misaka has been attacked with all kinds of firearms and explosives, not to mention a wide range of futuristic weapons and supernatural powers. If she couldn't react to supersonic attacks, she would have died a million times over already.
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they are mostly human, other than calculation speed (which is really strange to be conscious) they are like other humans :/ (and of course their esper powers)
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By that logic, Saints are mostly human, other than their Stigmata. They certainly aren't monsters like Kakine or Magic Gods, who are only human in shape, but filled with entirely different substance.
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thanks... i still think that the "subconscious-calculation"-explanation makes far more sense :/
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Then how do you explain that they can chose how to do their calculations? Also, on a side note, I despise Mahouka.
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mikoto may be able to hold herself for some time but she was always on the defense, i doubt that she could keep up if the fight went on for a longer time...
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I'm not arguing that Mikoto is stronger than Brunhild, or that she would have won. I'm arguing that Brunhild used 100% of her power against Mikoto and, by extension, claim that Mikoto's power level isn't that much lower than a Saint's. Don't muddle the issue at hand.
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kaori did other stuff like more spells in OT4 but her overall performance only increased :/
BIB: you mean where they drop in specific parts like speed in favor for other things?
but kaori showed that she could even increase her overall stats via spells, and this plus her saint-powers :/
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Not really. She mostly used Yuisen to cut Misha's wings and only used her wires to slow the speed of the wings enough so she wouldn't be overwhelmed by them.
Besides, each magician has their own combat style. Kaori built her style around her sword and the seven wires attached to it and the balance of spells she uses is built so that she fights at her best in that way. Clearly Brunhild decided that her ideal fighting style is one where she doesn't need spells other than those in her body and blade.
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btw, the acqua vs knight leader was a fight on sonic-lvl, ven if bruns speed dropped by the half she would still have been hard to get for mikoto
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Hard, but still easier than before. Say Brunhild dropped her physical boosts by half. Then she'd be hit twice as often for twice the damage, ending up taking four times the wounds.
Plus, it's not just a matter of speed. Mikoto was affecting Brunhild's sword with magnetism, which cannot be dodged as it travels at the speed of light. If her strength dropped below Mikoto's magnetic field, she wouldn't be able to attack her with her main weapon at all.
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BIB: she still has runes, which got already mentioned, and, you only showed a exampel where someone was stated to be at his limits...
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None of the runes she was shown to be able to use were usable in her battle against Mikoto. I won't accept the idea that Brunhild has attack runes she hasn't shown yet without good reason. If we go down the path of accepting unproven speculation, eventually we'll reach the point where we can speculate that Saten can solo the rest of the TAMNI cast because her charm is actually the most powerful thing in existence, x1000000 stronger than Aiwass.
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BIB: fiammas arm isnt really a normal one :/
as for the other stuff: but they can heal things like injuries, and damage in inner organs are also no problem (OT1), maybe kamachi simply ignores it for the sake of a nerfed-acqua :/
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There is a difference between closing up a clean cut and restoring body-wide internal damage to the point where the body is the same as it was before. Even if Acqua can recover from most the damage, his insides are probably shaped differently from before, much like a broken bone is not exactly the same as before even after it sets.
Also, is there any proof that Fiamma's right arm was special? He was using it to control the Holy Right, but the power of the Holy Right itself resides within his body and manifests as that bird claw hand thing. In fact, isn't it because his actual right arm wasn't special enough that he needed Touma's?
2015-08-28, 01:05
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actually, repeated low-lvl exposure agaisnt lightning can still mess up your body in some "not-really-pretty" ways, but this is mostly played for laughs 
because we cant say she doesnt have AoE spells based on this "fight", 
but i know what you mean, still, it doesnt really make that much sense, there are surely many legends where lost body parts growed/returned back to the owner :/
