Tokyo's Youth Ordinance Bill

[karice67]

@Simon
June. 6 months. If the government could have revised the bill, then I reckon the industry could have at least SHOWN that it was doing something about the accusations that minors actually have easy access to works that are inappropriate for them (e.g. the example I mentioned before, Teacher's Pet). If somebody can point me to evidence that they did, I'd really like to see it (after reading a few articles and links I've already been given, I'll try looking at what the industry's reaction to and after the first bill was). But going by the cries of "freedom of expression" and whatnot that the West is trumpeting, it seems like the industry didn't even want to admit that there was anything that needed to be changed, which clearly isn't the case (I'm not sure about Dan Kanemitsu, but Danny Choo actually mentioned a few issues on AX Live #39).

====
As an aside, about other media (like books, movies etc). I'll need to look at any examples brought up, but audio visual media probably already covered under other laws, if I'm not mistaken. Also, can anyone point me to a novel that sees rape as something that leads to love, like Teacher's Pet does?
====

• The thing is, in these situations, either the industry self-regulates, or someone else forces them too.
• From what I understand, the law that has been passed asks for SELF-REGULATION from the industry.
• The way it has come about is like a slap to the face - the wording is far too flexible, and the government strong-armed it through. I have never denied that.
• However, from my knowledge of the industry and what's available to whom (and I'm fairly confident I understand it at least as well as the average otaku, if not better) I personally cannot deny that there are strong grounds for it. I'm not even talking about sexual content per se here, but rather about the values and themes that that content seems to support (see my previous posts about Teacher's Pet, which, btw, isn't even that explicit). Explicit material is already being regulated, it's the implicit support of illicit material that I am personally against.

I don't doubt that Governor Ishihara's targets extend beyond what I feel should be targeted. But the industry cannot do anything about this if it just keeps harping on "freedom of expression". If you want to argue that the government isn't doing things the right way, then you should accept that the industry hasn't either.

Neither is completely in the right, but at the same time, neither is completely wrong. If we can't accept that and try to work towards a compromise, then how can you expect the government to do so?

I'll say it again:

The law has been passed. Much as we'd like to criticise the Tokyo government for forcing the issue through without any input from the industry, I think that we too have to recognise that it came about because of legitimate issues. It's now up to the industry (and by extension, the fans) to show that it can respond in a responsible and reasonable manner.

For example, going back to the argument that this is obviously targeting just manga/anime/games - if the law is used unreasonably, perhaps the industry should try to find examples of easily available books/novels that exemplify the same themes that the restricted content does?

m(_ _ )m
tl:dr from me again too...

Originally Posted by Taufiq91

Uhum.....

(Youngish people in positions of power in the West)

Your argument is kinda invalid here.......

But you underestimate the power and respect that elders command in the Japanese culture.

[Triple_R]

Something I'm curious about pertaining to the political culture in Japan...

I know that we have all of the following in North America:

1. Many newspaper chains, with Op Ed pages dedicated to paid political commentators.

2. Many news stations, with a few specialized segments dedicated to paid political commentators. Viewer feedback is frequently heard on such shows.

3. Letters to the Editor being common in newspapers, and being a forum for serious political discussion and debate.

4. Talk Radio being very popular in many places, and frequently being a place for heated and strong political discussion.

5. Town Hall forums being common place, and frequently arenas of heated and strong political discussion.


Basically, there is a plethora of different avenues of political expression in North America. So, an issue can quickly take on a life of its own, if enough people express their discontent over it through enough venues.


How much of the above also exists in Japan? I'm just curious to know how Makoto and Mikuru Average goes about expressing their political views in Japan (or if they even tend to do so at all).


P.S. I'm not necessarily saying that North America is super-fantastic for having all of the above, just that it does have some pros to it, such as multifaceted means of expressing political discontent.

[aohige]

Originally Posted by flying ^

can you summarize what other people said in the video i posted above?

I'll look at it when I get home.

Edit: here you go
putting them in spoiler tags to save length

Spoiler:

The first part with anchorman is simply about the bill being passed, expression glorifying illegal sex will be regarded adult only, and will be moved to adult only sections in the retail stores, etc.
And the fact the creative field is opposing and criticizing the bill

Next, the news reporter lady reports that books stores such as these will enlargen the adult corner to comply, when the bill comes in effect
Bookstore store manager comments that the censorship will most likely affect the market, and the biggest is the fact the customers may feel uneasy about buying them.
(i.e. they don't want to be seen as buying porno)

Public opinions:
young lady: It's a freedom for both the artist and the reader, I don't think it needs to be regulated
young man: I've always felt it's wrong to have it visible to places where kids could enter alone

Manga artists and publisher protest that it violate freedom of expression, and ask the bill to be over turned
Chiba Testuya (veteran manga artist, known for masterpieces such as Ashita no Joe):
The biggest problem is that young men who wants to get into manga and animation field are feeling very intimidated by this bill
(meaning, they may be hesitent from drawing or expressing their artistic creation)

Kodansha Executive Yasumasa Shimizu: Exactly who decides what's excessive or unreaonably unhealty??

Governor Ishihara: If you ask anyone if they would allow kids to read this stuff, the answer would be no.
We're doing this so they won't see them. I don't understand why anyone would oppose this bill.

News caster:
The bill is slated to pass today, and will be in effect starting July of next year

Originally Posted by Zetsubo

you see the phrase devils advocate ?

Yes you did, and failed.
Not much good a devil advocate is when the facts are wrong, thus have no convincing power.

you see the phrases i was told ?

Since when is "that's what she said" a valid excuse when presenting the knowledge as yours?

you see the phrase i do not know ?
yoy see the phrase thinking out loud ?
I do not know how solid this point is ?

That's what Tweets are for man.
At the point you're replying to my post, you're not just talking to yourself, you are responding with your views.

Where do i try to educate you on japanese life ?

At the point where you told me what yur fantasy Japan is like?

Im asking questions to clear up hearsay and conjecture

Ok, understood. would you have liked i if I responded with series of just "No. No. and no."

[aohige]

Sorry for double post, but there's hours in between and this is unrelated to the argument in above post.

Another hilarious comment by our good ol' governor, fresh off the press.

12/17 Press Conference

Ishihara: There are such things as perverts in this world. They are miserable people with twisted DNA. Abonomal beings. There's no benefit from writing stories of kids being raped, there's nothing to gain but everything to lose.

.......... uh, what about those rape novels you wrote involving minors being repeatedly raped over and over?
Seriously, does this man have amnesia?

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by aohige

Sorry for double post, but there's hours in between and this is unrelated to the argument in above post.

Another hilarious comment by our good ol' governor, fresh off the press.

12/17 Press Conference


.......... uh, what about those rape novels you wrote involving minors being repeatedly raped over and over?
Seriously, does this man have amnesia?

Maybe he still thinks the "age of availability" (aka throwing her down and taking her) is anything from puberty on like in the Good Old Days in his mind? o.O

When politicians use words like "kids" or "children" ... pin them down, what ages are they really talking about. To most people, those words bring up images of PRE-puberty years rather than that grey arbitrary "adult? or not adult?" period between 13-21 depending on what province/state/prefecture you're standing in or what the issue is. So they're great scare words...

[kj1980]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

How much of the above also exists in Japan? I'm just curious to know how Makoto and Mikuru Average goes about expressing their political views in Japan (or if they even tend to do so at all).

We have all of them. Except, people who have all the power and money are the nearing/already in retirement baby-boomer generation who yearn for the good ol' days. Old people own huge cash savings, own stocks and bonds, they have influence in chonaikai (similar to neighborhood councils/townhall meetings), they hold the moolah to lobby and influence decisions to their benefit. Obviously, what politician is gonna do a disasterous move to piss off the constituents who have the most money and influence in votes? And since they outnumber in population to the younger generation, what the baby-boomer generation vote for becomes the course of political decisions in Japan.

We have a slang word used by Japanese youths called 老害 (rougai); old people who subject the younger generations to follow and maintain the status quo so that they can fill their pockets at the expense of youth's ideals.

But just like the old people who make up the majority of the Tea Party in the US, eventually they are gonna die off. Unfortunately though, we have one of the highest life expectancy rates in the world, so the baby boomer generations that are starting to retire now still have 20+ years of life left until they begin to die out.

Simply put in US terms: old people vote Republican, younger people tend to vote Democrat. Except in Japan, old people outnumber young people so political decisions become overwhelmingly conservative leaning to the benefit of old people's ideals.

[Akito Kinomoto]

Originally Posted by kj1980

Simply put in US terms: old people vote Republican, younger people tend to vote Democrat. Except in Japan, old people outnumber young people so political decisions become overwhelmingly conservative leaning to the benefit of old people's ideals.

I think it's about time we saw the capsules that trigger suspended animation fall into common use, because I'm not putting up with this for another 20 or so years. And would you care to inform us when Article 21 was added to the Japanese constitution? I mean, if this came about before the time of the baby boomer generation, their longing for conservative ideals is going to look hypocritical. Of course, I am aware of the fact that Rip Van Winkle thinks the world revolves around him, so how long until the younger generation takes that role and runs the show has strong political influence?

[bhl88]

last resort in case it fails to bend by March: buy all the anime and manga campaign (and save it all outside Tokyo)

[Gordy Lechance]

A few pages back someone said there's an even in March thats ALL going to be about personally attacking Ishihara:

So, besides Adobe Photoshop and After-Effects, what other softwares would I need to super impose that evil old buzzard's face onto the villain in THIS video, and how long would it take?

Thanks.

[Azumanga Davo]

To think an industry would die because of a change to the rules of what can be sold and to whom is like declaring the car industry would die because of pollution regulations. Naive thinking.

All that will happen is people will think "Hmmm, well, we can sell such and such instead" and change what they do. It's not exactly a mass exodus of the Jews from Egypt. Things will carry on as they always have, just with a few more restrictions in place.

[flying ^]

Originally Posted by Hey Missus

To think an industry would die because of a change to the rules of what can be sold and to whom is like declaring the car industry would die because of pollution regulations. Naive thinking.

but see there's negative externalities involved in auto industry and must be regulated (introducing new caps on particulates annually or bi-annually for example)

with manga/anime industry there's no such negative externalities (manga retailers are already self regulating and restricting what they can sell before this bill came about)

[Taufiq91]

Originally Posted by flying ^

with manga/anime industry there's no such negative externalities (manga retailers are already self regulating and restricting what they can sell before this bill came about)

But i think those are the manga publishers who are more popular with their universal-themed content rather than the mature and high school content.

From what i've known of ratings, the more universal/fsamily-themed their content, the more they are willing to censor.

Oh, since this issue is an issue of freedom of expression, please visit the Japanese Civil Liberties Union:

http://jclu.org/
http://jclu.org/index_e.shtml

They are just like the ACLU, only that it's based in Japan. I've done work with them as an Amnesty International member and they're really good at what they do, especially regarding Zainichis and Ainus. They've also been raising issues on this bill since March.

If you really want to help, try and contact the JCLU. They would be willing to raise this bill's issue more.

You can call them at these numbers:
(+81) 3-3437-6989
(+81) 3-3437-5466

[SinsI]

Originally Posted by Zetsubo

It seems to me that its the "drawings" that Ishihara-san is after.

Drawings are more comfortable to "minors" and easily accessible to them.

I was told that whilst photos will "gross out most kids" manga art "would not" and is easily digested by them.

I was told that he may perceive anime/manga as a threat simply because of the MEDIUM of the story and not the story itself.

Novels are hurdle, movies are hurdle, but... Anime/Manga have a big "child friendly sticker" on them...

I am not sure how true this is.

Or maybe he has seen Akumetsu and the thought of someone rebelling against corrupt politicians horrifies him...

[KaneDragon]

Originally Posted by Taufiq91

Okay i have to repost this again since no one is paying attention:

There's been one post since your last post. No need to duplicate it already.

[Azumanga Davo]

Originally Posted by flying ^

but see there's negative externalities involved in auto industry and must be regulated (introducing new caps on particulates annually or bi-annually for example)

with manga/anime industry there's no such negative externalities (manga retailers are already self regulating and restricting what they can sell before this bill came about)

But my point is this. Regardless of whether you make books or cars, if you have a change in the legislation that only affects a part of a business of what can and can't be made, then it's not the end of the world. You just adhere to the rules.

[kj1980]

Originally Posted by Akito_Kinomoto

And would you care to inform us when Article 21 was added to the Japanese constitution?

Do you really think any of your constitutional rights in the US are always protected 100% of the time? One part says this, others say stuff that contradicts that, and that's the hypocrisy of the government and those in charge anywhere in the world.

Originally Posted by Akito_Kinomoto

so how long until the younger generation takes that role and runs the show has strong political influence?

[sarcasm] About the time after which America realizes that it wasn't such a good idea to vote for a yokel from Alaska to the Presidency; twice wwwww

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by kj1980

Do you really think any of your constitutional rights in the US are always protected 100% of the time? One part says this, others say stuff that contradicts that, and that's the hypocrisy of the government and those in charge anywhere in the world.



[sarcasm] About the time after which America realizes that it wasn't such a good idea to vote for a yokel from Alaska to the Presidency; twice wwwww

Aye, the "stupid" knows no boundaries... and the sociopaths and egomaniacs can always direct the herd.

[Cloudy]

I hope somebody from Wikileaks would reveal some dirty little secret of this old guy and his associates.

And have the momentum swing in favour of the anime fans and industry.

[Taufiq91]

Originally Posted by Cloudy

I hope somebody from Wikileaks would reveal some dirty little secret of this old guy and his associates.

And have the momentum swing in favour of the anime fans and industry.

According to Wikileaks in 2009, Japan's participation in ACTA would require a passing of a "Regulation of medium content bill".

So yeah, this bill is an ACTA bill.

[kk2extreme]

So it is a ESRB for anime and manga , I smell hot coffee coming