Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2

[Mr Hat and Clogs]

I think I heard about this on the steam forums, or something similar... something to do with button spamming, dunno if that's it though or how its actually done. Even if it is cheating, it is fairly hilarious... homing knife of doom.

[USB500]

Regarding the plothole, I wish IW will fix it in MW3, because the story in MW2, while interesting, leaves a lot to be desired. While we're at it, is it me or is IW always making the special forces campaign (SAS, especially) more interesting than regular army campaign (Rangers/Marine) in the past two MW installments? That saying, I'd really like to see a Spetsnaz campaign in MW3.

Spoiler:

oh god, now i want to submit my idea for MW3 already

Originally Posted by Tiberium Wolf

I found this video yesterday... is this true?

Oh, wow. If that manoeuvre is legal, I'm sure everybody will be knife-spamming by now

[SaintessHeart]

Now they have included the NZ SAS (Rook is one, see his emblem in the mission which you have to sneak your way out of a gunfight), they could have been more decent to include the Snow Wolves (China), SSG (Pakistan), GSG-9 (Germany), etc.

Or can we play as the Spetznaz for once?

[yeahitschris]

is it just me, or is spec-ops laggy (ps3, i am playing with my friend from cali, i am from NE) and boy does the spec-op thing suck so bad. can't even play with friend. been waiting 5 mins. lame "12 sec error"

[gummybear]

is the knife throw always a 1 hit kill?

[rainnydaiis]

That has to be one of the best knife throws I've ever seen. But its really hard to believe that its legit. I mean it did show the last 4 seconds of how it went down but its really hard to believe that it really did hit.

[Bonta Kun]

Originally Posted by gummybear

is the knife throw always a 1 hit kill?

should be considering you only get the one knife to throw, so far I've only killed the one guy with the throwing knife.

But damn thats one lucky ass throw if i ever saw one, props to the guy

I love lucky shots and throws, they always amuse me greatly

[TigerII]

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

Now they have included the NZ SAS (Rook is one, see his emblem in the mission which you have to sneak your way out of a gunfight), they could have been more decent to include the Snow Wolves (China), SSG (Pakistan), GSG-9 (Germany), etc.

Or can we play as the Spetznaz for once?

Do you mean total or with the Task Force? The war is going to be between the USA and Russia. Why would Pakistan get involved? China might get involved if it felt it could take some of Siberia for itself. Also, technically Rook wasn't Australian SAS. He was former Australian SAS, like Soap, Price, and Ghost were former SAS. They all retired from their former services to join Task Force 141.

That being said, I hope more nations do get involved. However, right after the airport, remember what Ghost and Soap were talking about? With the world thinking the US did it, no one would do anything while the Russians club every American they can. Maybe that explains why no other nations warned the US about the attack. Technically even the UK wasn't helping. The SAS guys were not SAS anymore. No one likes the US as it is, add the fact that publicly America sponsored terrorist who killed hundreds of Russians, and you have an apathetic world. I do wish more nations would get involved. I would like to see NATO armies.

[ShatteredSkys]

Originally Posted by Tiberium Wolf

I found this video yesterday... is this true?

omg a Red dot on a Glock,it would Look so ridiculous with an acog scope on it . the kill was hilarious. Thats some Major skill !

[Firefly00]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

Though how in the world do the Russians amass such a massive airforce without anyone noticing?

A major part of concealing the assembly of such a force would be deception. Consider the operations that had been laid on back in WW2 to keep the Germans in the dark as to the details of Operation Overlord.

I mean sure they disabled the Americans' survelliance but how seriously?

If you're referring to the arrival of the various formations in US airspace being a total surprise, one possible factor is the subversion of various systems so that they operate normally in all respects... except that certain things are not shown to the operators. Dale Brown's 'Shadow Command' has good examples of this in action.
Whoever tries to novelize this story has their work cut out for them, I think. This is why a writer should have on hand someone who tries to poke holes in their scenarios... In IW's defense, there probably is more going on behind the scenes that wouldn't fit in the briefings' purview.
As for the rest of the world believing the incident to be an act authourized by the United States... there has to be some reason folks aren't considering the possibilities of red herrings (as noted) and/or - given the ultranationalists' track record - actual false-flag ops (much like the Reichstag Fire is believed to have been).

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Firefly00

A major part of concealing the assembly of such a force would be deception. Consider the operations that had been laid on back in WW2 to keep the Germans in the dark as to the details of Operation Overlord.

This is different though.

They are invading the eastern coasts which means they'd have to send a massive aerial force through Norway, Europe, England, Iceland and Greenland.

With the invasion of Pearl Harbour the Japanese were able to hide their fleet in the northern sea which is nothing but sea. And even then they weren't sending a land invasion either. With Operation Overlord the Allies could use England which wasn't really far away from the France and the Germans knew they were coming, just not when. With the Atlantic there are several countries in the way. I just don't see how you could pull it off without even any civilian craft not noticing.

I dunno, maybe I'm not a military buff to know this but I find it hard to swallow. I mean if they invaded the western coasts or Alaska then I could find that plausible.

[Firefly00]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

This is different though.

They are invading the eastern coasts which means they'd have to send a massive aerial force through Norway, Europe, England, Iceland and Greenland.

-elaboration redacted-

Unless they use an over-the-pole approach... but even then, there'd be other folks noticing, like the Canadians. We are nonetheless in agreement that this really strains one's ability to suspend disbelief.

[MidnightViper88]

Originally Posted by Firefly00

MakubeX2 and TigerII make a good point: having the Russians jump to conclusions like that strains the readers' ability to suspend disbelief. Surely it would have occured to folks that the 'clues' left behind might be a bit too convenient...

Ever hear of the term "propaganda"? The Soviets used it to a liberal extent to spread public misinformation and make self-justifications for their own offensive actions throughout the Cold War...Seeing as how the Russian Ultranationalists' ulterior motive is to return Russia to it's "glory days" of the USSR, and how in the timeline of Modern Warfare 2 they've taken control of the Russian government, I don't see what "suspension of disbelief" there is...It's totally believable if you look at any real-life totalitarian or communist regime, as they have complete control of the politics and media within the country, manipulating their influence on people and creating a truth out of a lie...Are not the Ultranationalists, with the control of the Russian government and with Makarov as their leader, doing just that?

It's not necessarily the audience's belief in the lie, but the in-game characters' belief in the "truth", and what exactly is trustworthy in a story line driven by distrust and betrayal?

Originally Posted by TigerII

Also, technically Rook wasn't Australian SAS. He was former Australian SAS, like Soap, Price, and Ghost were former SAS. They all retired from their former services to join Task Force 141.

Task Force 141, like it's real-life counterparts of current Task Force 6-26/145/121, is a joint multinational group between the participating nations' special operations groups charged with executing a specific objective...In Modern Warfare 2's case, it's made up of various members from the 22nd SAS, Royal Marines SBS, 1st SFOD-D, SEALs, 75th Rangers, JTF2, USMC, and SASR, created to counter the international threat of Makarov, the Russian Ultranationalists, and their associates...

However, the real life Task Force units are temporary special forces striking forces, often morphing into new TFs as the operations see fit, or disbanding after the success of the larger general mission is achieved...They are composed of operators from multiple SOGs, but the task force in it of itself is only an ad-hoc SOG, not permanent to any effect...Soap and Price are still active (Short of what happens to them after their new war criminal allegations) SAS operatives operating within the Task Force group...

Operators from various groups like 1st SFOD-D, SEAL Team Six, and SAS return to their respective individual SOGs after their involvement with a current TF is complete or disbanded, yet are still individually representative of where they came from...Just like a Navy corpsman attached to a Marine Corps unit is still Navy and not Marine, or various SOGs involved in a joint USSOCOM operation still operate as their specific branches under a larger coordinated effort...

...in short, there is no "former" with a Task Force, only being a former TF member...

[Claies]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

This is different though.

They are invading the eastern coasts which means they'd have to send a massive aerial force through Norway, Europe, England, Iceland and Greenland.

With the invasion of Pearl Harbour the Japanese were able to hide their fleet in the northern sea which is nothing but sea. And even then they weren't sending a land invasion either. With Operation Overlord the Allies could use England which wasn't really far away from the France and the Germans knew they were coming, just not when. With the Atlantic there are several countries in the way. I just don't see how you could pull it off without even any civilian craft not noticing.

I dunno, maybe I'm not a military buff to know this but I find it hard to swallow. I mean if they invaded the western coasts or Alaska then I could find that plausible.

The only way I could rationalize this is that Russia has more allies in Europe than the US do in that setting. I remember that in one cutscene, one of the TF141 members remarked that America has no more friends left in the world, which means to me that former allies of the US are either neutral to the affair or complicit in allowing the invasion force through without notifying the US. Additionally, either Russia or Shepard or both could have extensively tampered with American detection systems. We really don't know how much of a hand Shepard had in the plot.

Russia could also have threatened anyone in Europe along the way of an invasion if they don't comply, though it's less likely since actually carrying out the threat and opening more fronts does Russia no favors.

It really steps on the line between barely plausible and complete bullshit, but it's not total bullshit.

[2H-Dragon]

Originally Posted by gummybear

is the knife throw always a 1 hit kill?

Yup, but you sacrifice your frag grenade slot though, which is a lot better imo.

Originally Posted by Bonta Kun

should be considering you only get the one knife to throw, so far I've only killed the one guy with the throwing knife.

You can pick up the knife though, after you've thrown it.
Yeah I never got a real knife kill next to sneaking up to somebody from behind.

Btw the coop campaign was kinda weak imo. It's kinda like gears horde mode, but you're limited to 2 players, which kinda makes it lack luster. I just got bored with it really quick, I'd rather have the singleplayer campaign coop.

[TigerII]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

This is different though.

They are invading the eastern coasts which means they'd have to send a massive aerial force through Norway, Europe, England, Iceland and Greenland.

With the invasion of Pearl Harbour the Japanese were able to hide their fleet in the northern sea which is nothing but sea. And even then they weren't sending a land invasion either. With Operation Overlord the Allies could use England which wasn't really far away from the France and the Germans knew they were coming, just not when. With the Atlantic there are several countries in the way. I just don't see how you could pull it off without even any civilian craft not noticing.

I dunno, maybe I'm not a military buff to know this but I find it hard to swallow. I mean if they invaded the western coasts or Alaska then I could find that plausible.

I think the excuse for that one is that the European nations LET the Russians attack. As stated, the world thought the US had perpetuated the attack on the airport, so add to the fact no one really liked the US beforehand, now the US is attacking civilians in opposing nations cities, and the world may just 'ignore' the incoming Russians.

Plus, I never saw anything but paratrooper/helicopter troop soldiers. Are we sure it was a complete invasion attempt, or just a strike back? Remember, the Russian's goal was to kill 1000 Americans for every Russian killed. We never saw regular infantry or MBTs, just paratroopers and BRTs which can be para dropped in. Maybe it was a suicide mission, and no fleet ever sailed past.

If the world has decided not to help the Americans, than if the US does invade Russia they really only have two options. Invade Siberia from Alaska and the East coast, push all the way through Siberia and over the Urals, or invade from the Arctic Circle through Murmansk and Archangel.

MidnightViper88, my post was about if the US has no allies. If in the next game we see Britain, Canada, Australia, etc. remain neutral, then having their special forces members attacking Russia could drag them into the war. Besides, TF 141 is destroyed and the surviving members are fugitives. Unless the Americans are openly supported by the nation, if any more from such nations special forces joins with the Americans, they will have to resign from their unit.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by TigerII

I think the excuse for that one is that the European nations LET the Russians attack. As stated, the world thought the US had perpetuated the attack on the airport, so add to the fact no one really liked the US beforehand, now the US is attacking civilians in opposing nations cities, and the world may just 'ignore' the incoming Russians.

Still too farfetched I think for something like that to happen.

Plus, I never saw anything but paratrooper/helicopter troop soldiers. Are we sure it was a complete invasion attempt, or just a strike back? Remember, the Russian's goal was to kill 1000 Americans for every Russian killed. We never saw regular infantry or MBTs, just paratroopers and BRTs which can be para dropped in. Maybe it was a suicide mission, and no fleet ever sailed past.

Aside from what you said

They deployed

Predator Drones
Heavy assault helicopters
SAM sites
Anti-Artillery cannons
Fast movers (attack aircraft)

It was more of a quick strike force to gain a stronghold in the states. Given the fact that they were deploying SAM and AA batteries (is that even possible for that distance?) they were obviously there to stay and were digging in.

Plus I don't recall the Russians deploying carrier fleets either, though I maybe wrong.

hmmmm, will there be a novel coming out?

[Tiberium Wolf]

I think the story is pretty simple. Wanna know the rest? Buy MW3!

[MidnightViper88]

Originally Posted by TigerII

MidnightViper88, my post was about if the US has no allies. If in the next game we see Britain, Canada, Australia, etc. remain neutral, then having their special forces members attacking Russia could drag them into the war. Besides, TF 141 is destroyed and the surviving members are fugitives. Unless the Americans are openly supported by the nation, if any more from such nations special forces joins with the Americans, they will have to resign from their unit.

One line I inserted in the middle somewhere reading along the specific lines of "Short of what happens to them after their new war criminal allegations" takes care of all that...

Besides, I was more talking about real-life context instead of in-game, excluding any in-game variables...So yeah, we're apparently talking about different things then...

[TigerII]

Midnight, that is the thing. As much as many would like to believe, Call of Duty isn't all that realistic. Some of the most obvious are the Russians themselves. None of the weapons they used besides the PDF, RPD, and Ak-47 are Russian. It seems that IW is still stuck on the old Soviets. The Russians of today have much more modern weaponry. They still use the Ak-47 for urban warfare(The 7.62mm punches through doors and walls better, but even then they are using the AKM). Then all the other weapons are Israeli, Belgian, and German, which outside of Special Forces, the Russian military doesn't use.

Soldier, I would like to point out that all of those vehicles can be para-dropped from the heaviest Ilyushin transports. The F/A aircraft would have been apart of and attack, suicidal or not. The only thing that had me perplexed was the Mi-28s. Where the hell did they come from? I just have a hard time believing that a nation of 170 million thinks they can honestly invade and hold a nation of 300 million when their technology is close. If Russia's technology was far ahead of the Americans, I could believe it, but not when their tech is that close.


Also, it seems that the 'No Russian' mission was too controversial in Russia. Modern Warfare 2 was recalled from Russia until a version that takes out the 'No Russian' mission replaces it.

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/104/1045434p1.html