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Old 2008-01-28, 04:07   Link #18981
AdmiralTigerclaw
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I actually noted that Hayate's attack was not a mere 'explosion'.

An explosion is actually a very simple effect. It is rapid expansion of a gas cloud and its debris. If anything, Hayate's Hraesvelgr attack is MORE complicated than mere explosions. The 'blast' as I call it looks more like insane storm turbulance. (Her specialty is crazy weather phenomina is it not?) If that is the case, the straight up, raw ENERGY she's unleashing in the attack is an order of magnitude larger than just a mere 'WHUMP!' of a concussion wave. After all, it's not making the air just expand forcefully, It's making it churn like the inside of a blender.

If that's what she can do at less than optimal power S rank, her full power SS rank + is insane in a straight up "let's plain blast everything!" mode. That's why I compare her to a Los Angeles. (I think I meant an Ohio though. AKA a "Boomer" with twenty-six trident SLBMs with MIRV warheads. Don't quote me, directly, I'm winding down tonight from a combo of cleaning and researching at the same time.)

And thanks for pointing out that spot at 9 formations. I missed it skipping around as it's only about 30 secs. Reviewing it, she's breathing heavily for a few seconds but seems to visually recover before the end of the sequence. She's obviously "just gettin' warmed up."

Anywho, noting the polar map. That's probably just an overview with the submap being the theater map. After all, their command center's like nearly every holywood reprisentation of NORAD. A little later when Dieci fires her I.S. Heavy Barrel at the chopper, they have their dynamic submap zoomed in on the city itself. (Showing the road networks and such.) My main concern was tracking Hayate's shots over the Theater map.

But enough about that, as you said, let's get this power armor under way. (I don't know why you guys call it mini-gundam. Or is every man shaped object with armor plating automatically a gundam around here?)

As far as effect and power go, my main concern as that deep down under the difference between magical and real, is one underlying universal constant. Raw Energy.

Conventional firearms and magic may have different ways of doing their job, but it remains the same job. To Deliver and impart an amount of energy sufficient to cause the integrity of a target to fail.

My use of firearms and modern weapons is my way of familiarizing what levels of energy are being applied. Another thing to remember, is that when it comes to combat, modern arms are pretty much the most efficient means of absolutely destroying things.

A shotgun blast imparts the same force as a swung baseball bat. The difference in lethality is the way the force is imparted. A baseball bat can still kill you by smashing your skull, but a shotgun blast shreds your internals.
The energy delivered remains equal, but it's method changes the damage.

In the same field context, I understand that magic delivers energy to targets in various forms. The main advantage of magic though, is that it has 'exotic' properties over conventional properties. Magic attacks can be made 'safe' in mid flight, can be controlled with thought, and can blink out if it is so requested. A bullet is small piece of metal flying at mach two in a ballisic arc to slam into a target and deliver the force of its shot to a small area in a very short time. It cannot be called back, its direction changed, or made 'safe' once released. If it is fired, you better know what you fired out.

When conventional attack meets magic, THEN things get interesting. A 9 year old girl generates a magical defense that allows her to be smashed from several stories up into concrete with enough force to generate a shockwave, but recieves no REAL injury from that impact. There's no existing armor on EARTH that can provide that protection, and the SCI-FI shields that might be able to do that are generations away at best. Even worse, since slamming into the target is pretty much how ALL modern weapons work, we end up with a slight problem of it just being ANNOYING unless you rapidly escalate into the overkill range.
The exotic properties of magic win out in defense methods since they can cheat physics in this manner. However, for offense, conventional weapons are just nastier and efficient.
A good hybrid of magical attack that mimics the conventional firearms method is absolutely a must when one is designing for combat. When it comes down to imparting energy to a target, nothing beats just brute forcing it into a small space as fast as possible.
So the logical method would be that if you want to rapidly defeat both a tech savvy and potential threat magics, you need a weapon that has the efficiency of force of a firearm, but the cheats of magic.
So what you do is you take X amount of energy, slap a magic field around it, and hurl it downrange as fast as you can. Since the magical energy is more compatable against the exotic magical defenses, you stand a better chance of delivering your package of attack energy directly to the actual target.

And since magical combat is geared towards exotic attacks and melee weapons, a high speed round delivering the energy of a full power of a magical sword swing from a hundred meters away is not a normally expected method of combat, especially when there's no fancy light shows, incantations, power-up periods, or other manners exotic effects... just straight up, to the point Energy from Point A to Point B attack. If you miss, fire again. It's more efficient to repeat an attack than to take the first attack and turn it around... as THAT wastes mental effort, magical energy, and conventional energy bleed.

In this manner, most of the Battery's attack mechanisms are actually using LESS magical energy than attacks of equal power using conventional magic attack methods. And making attack more efficient would be where I would place the goal of Battery. Allowing lower rank mages the abillity to utilize the power to attack equal to higher ranges, not JUST by boosting them, but by improving the efficiency of their combat abilities by shaving off the frills and getting highly utilitarian.

As it stands, the prototype is all that's available. And as THAT stands, it's still under testing and review and from the perspective of when I plan to set this up, (I've been getting something in my head and I'm about ready to start writing it.) it'll be years, maybe even a decade before a propperly scaled mass production version for conventional 'Ground Pounding' mages could be ready.
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Old 2008-01-28, 04:08   Link #18982
LoweGear
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Originally Posted by Liingo View Post
Belkarangers? Should that not be the *cough* BAKARANGERS
But the Bakarangers already exist

(Poor Makie )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
"Confessy JUMP!"


"Confessy SPIN!"


ZETTAI MUTEKI INAZUMA...


KIIIIIIICKKHAAA!!!



*angry Allison Ford in Leshral Mode >>>> USB, LoweGear and Liingo for forgetting she existed*

Lingo's right; we do need Katsura around too... Not to mention that I'll be kinda retconning Allie as a character if she were to moderate them...

But I'm sure Mommy Braummuhl will give her stamp of approval. (See my OC list if you want to know why. )
[Bardiche] Recovery [/Bardiche]

Well, I didn't even know they were HnG characters until FlameS told me

And at any rate, they're not gonn have much in the way of HnG refs... except as gags. Perhap's Allie's gonna have a strange... affinity towards them (despite them being WAY older than she is )

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmiralTigerclaw View Post
Anyway, as far as spell ranges... I think we're underestimating Hayate's power level. I'm reviewing Episode 11 of strikers at this very moment and:

Spoiler for Technical Review of the GODS:



Many catgirls were ruthlessly slaughtered in the making of this post.

*looks at the hill made of bludgeoned catgirls*


Such horror... such inhumanity...

And such a detailed and exhaustive look into Hayate's power levels

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
  • I'm busy running some MAJOR overhauls in Aurion's profile as by doing some MAJOR de-HAXXing. (HAXXbusters cheer)
  • I'm planning on scrapping some more outragous ideas as well as making a more believable back-story for the Perfect Void (Universally fatal threat? Not any more.XD) in order to make it more feasible to the general public.
  • Also running ideas on how to bring about the Aurion vs. Hayate mock battle.
  • Planning out some MORE OC's.
  • Trying to inject an attempt at EPIC in one scene.
  • Conceptualizing the *beeeeeeeeeeep* in one scenario.
  • Revamping the spell list.
  • Doing even more powering down for some elements.
  • Inserting some scenes of the Perfect Void Incident in backflashes.
  • Scrapping the excessive referencing in my new OC's.
  • Contemplating on how to referecne Saga and the OFM in GenerationS.
  • Thinking of how to first insert Tk's OC's.
  • Thinking of proper tactics to use.
  • Thinking of how to 'believably' HAXX Luozorl further.
  • Thinking of Whether to add more ideas for Tyrfing.
  • Thinking of adding some familiars.
  • Thinking of adding some more OC's from others if possible.
  • Conceptualizing the final battle in a blievable light.
  • Making Hayate's performance believeable.
  • Changing the name and the concepts of the Bookmark System.
  • Offering some nostalgia for the Tome of the night Sky.
  • Thinking of a Tesla+Agito unison.
  • Thinking of a Hayate+Agito Unison...


In short, I want my story as canonically feasible as I can. And Yep, it's fun! Though I'm having particular trouble with portraying Hayate in combat due to excessive shafting.
That's quite the exhaustive list there, that's a lot of things to do for Generations

Though I'm very interested in your *beeeeeeeeeeeep* scenario you're conceptualizing there

*runs*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R
LOWE!!! DO SOMETHING ABOUT YOUR PHOTOBUCKET ACCOUNT!!!
It sometimes goes overboard, it sometimes doesn't Should be fine now though

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R




Boukenger reference this time?!

NICE!!!

Though it made me think... Since Aurion's trigger phrase was taken from Satoru Akashi/Boukenred...

Aurion: *snaps fingers* Attack!
Belkarangers: Roger!!! *charges*






*runs like frickin hell*


Aurion should have his own Boukenger henshin In fact, he should be the Belkaranger's secret leader

*runs*
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Old 2008-01-28, 04:22   Link #18983
Sheba
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Originally Posted by FieryAeon View Post

Re-watching lots of anime to get ideas. I swear this has to be the worse writer's lazy spree+writer's block I've ever had.
I know how you feel. I have been working on a bishoujo (1) fighting game IAQ (2) since 2005 and I have moved it to wiki format like ten months ago because I was tired of the txt format that has been done a lot of time already.
All of my IAQ characters' profiles are done but so far I have done only five actual movelists (as in how their moves works). Because I don't want all of my characters to suffer the Melty Blood (different movelists but nearly everyone play the same) or KoF 98 (Command throws for nearly the whole cast!) syndrome.


(1) Using female (and very few males) characters that were used for NPCs in pen&paper role playing games like Mutant Chronicles/Doomtroopers, Vampire the Masquerade, Kult, Hunter: The Reckoning but done away from their roots in an alternative earth of my own.
Among the cast, there are a miko as the heroine and her twin brother who has both demonic blood (originally, they were dhampyrs), a demon-hunter squad hired by the Vatican that has a womanizing spanish slacker, a gunslinging nun, a blind swordgirl and a psychic Italian hottie. Outside the squad, there were also a war veteran, a carefree hawai girl who has water powers, the pretty big-breasted foreign (brazilian and vietnamese half-breed) girl who can manipulate fire, the biker banchou who is albino, hard lez and can manipulate air, etc...

(2) IAQ = fictional faq for a fictional game

Last edited by Sheba; 2008-01-28 at 05:23.
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Old 2008-01-28, 07:18   Link #18984
dkellis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
I'd like to ask now (everyone who won't mind), how would you expect her to hold out in relatively close range? The initial idea is that she has a year under her wing for some training on mid to melee-range self-defense. How should she hold out against someone like say... Vita? As it is now, I'm imaging a large possibility of cries of, "She's supposed to do better!" or "She's not supposed to be THIS good!" or both. So I would like a general opinion. Her spellcasting is better now, BTW. But still way slower than most.
I've noticed that for all we try to bust our own haxxes, Hayate is simply unbalanced.

We know that she can easily toss out huge mega-destructive blasts, well dwarfing Nanoha's own, and it doesn't seem to tax her as much as it does Nanoha. Strangely enough, we haven't seen her do anything other than these mega-blasts (or close-equivalent power spells), which makes me wonder if she can use anything smaller. For example, we know that Nanoha can fire off Starlight Breakers (well, she could, at the least), but she can also call up a small magical thingie which she uses to train her control by knocking a can around, without vapourizing said can. I'm not sure if Hayate can do the same, or if she's stuck with Big Booms only.

I also seem to recall that in A's, Rein the first had an incredibly tough barrier which took most of Nanoha's power to break through; I'm assuming that Hayate inherited that ability, so I'm assuming that she can sit there and soak attacks for as long as she likes.

So, where does that leave us? If Hayate is up against a melee combatant, she's likely to not care much about the attacks coming her way, but her response might be delayed while she goes through the whole Darkness-beyond-twilight routine. Once she finishes, though, I'm thinking that she can just fire it off at zero range and trust in her own defenses to protect her from the AoE.

I'm not sure if Hayate can perform as well when there are fragile objectives in the area. In episode 2 of StrikerS, she had to wait until the block was evacuated before she did her ice spell. I'm assuming that unless she's managed to learn a stupendous amount of control, she's likely to be useless in close-quarters hostage situations.

In other words, if she wants to engage in mid to close range combat, it had better be in an open area without anything to get in her way. Otherwise, she may have to rely on whatever a regular person could learn in that year of training about self-defence, plus her own inherently impenetrable barrier.

Or I could be completely mistaken about everything.

-

A thought I had:

Here's Hayate, super-powerful mage of a near-extinct magical legacy, S-ranked (or was it SS?), able to toss off heavy bombardment spells with abandon.

And the TSAB assigns her to what amounts to a desk job, after slapping several levels of limiters on her.

Chrono had a rank of AAA+ as of A's. Lindy had a rank of who knows what (I think I heard mention that she was also stupendously powerful). Both are also assigned to non-frontline roles as of StrikerS (and in Lindy's case, as of the first season).

Compare to the Wolkenritter, who wander around as an actual combat-active unit. I'm not sure what mage ranks they have, but it's likely pretty high. I'm not sure whether Fate also goes around righting wrongs, and Acous's talents seem to be based more appropriately on espionage than direct confrontations.

I'm beginning to believe that the TSAB also has its own hawks-and-doves political divide, even outside of Regius's schemes. If you're trying to make your characters more powerful in a combat sense, I'm thinking that you're going to have to acknowledge in the story that there'll be a lot of political backlash.
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Old 2008-01-28, 07:34   Link #18985
Saint X
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
Good...


You should take into consideration Aurion and Almaria's old Pschic Link. Because one thing to remember is 'No link' = 'fake'. This makes sense, I must admit. If you're going thruough with this, provide the Psychic link, if only a phantom one. And of course, I want the reappearance to be AlternateS-exclusive. :-/
No more Almaria until the "Memory of the Planet" Arc... which will be a very hard challenge- given the rules of Reappearance in that space...

- History Shared
- Any Relations, blood or otherwise
- Any Links, esp. Mental / Psychic
- Requires a Celestial or a source of "Divine Energy" Nearby.
- Many more still in definition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
WANT!!!

Though I have one move for Hayate in GenerationS that goes along those lines. (Not melee, of course.)
Well she is the next Cardinal, after Carim taking up the long lost Velkan Papacy... well i have a lot of things planned *cough*velkan*cough*valkyries*cough*with*cough*Ker oko*cough*which is*cough*currently in*cough*the shelf*cough*due*cough*to*cough*resource*cough*conc erns*cough*

=====

well i have a lot doing, since I'm moving/downgrading my base of operations from the massive Outer Cadian Facility to a Quaint, Cozy and Peaceful Neo-Venezian Workshop in Calle Fantasia.

And such this profile will be the last item produced from the Outer Cadian Facility.

Spoiler for Orbit/Ring/Circle 3:


Questions will be entertained...

Saint X is now starting his movement to Neo-Venezia... ETA: Unknown...
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Old 2008-01-28, 07:41   Link #18986
Kha
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Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
But the Bakarangers already exist

(Poor Makie )
Wang Liu Mei: Ah sou, sou...

Linda: So what?

Wang: Classified information.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
[Bardiche] Recovery [/Bardiche]

Well, I didn't even know they were HnG characters until FlameS told me

And at any rate, they're not gonn have much in the way of HnG refs... except as gags. Perhap's Allie's gonna have a strange... affinity towards them (despite them being WAY older than she is )
Neither did I, until Lingo made me realize I was staring at Nagi. Hence the delayed Kick of Justice.

Anyway, if they were the Bakarangers, I suppose the missing 4th Baka is Ma--*static*--, deshou?

That doesn't explain the missing 5th Baka though...

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
*looks at the hill made of bludgeoned catgirls*

Such horror... such inhumanity...
As Gimmy once put it: "What a perfect waste of the nekoroid female population."

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
Though I'm very interested in your *beeeeeeeeeeeep* scenario you're conceptualizing there

*runs*
Yeah especially after all the trailers and "trial runs" and "sneak peaks".

*runs too*

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post


Aurion should have his own Boukenger henshin In fact, he should be the Belkaranger's secret leader

*runs*
This is a GREAT IDEA! XD

In the next episode of Rebuilt of StrikerS...

"BakaRed, ORE SANJOU!"


*runs from Aaron and anti-OC-assassination activists while keeping an eye out for Mai*
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Old 2008-01-28, 07:42   Link #18987
Sheba
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@ Saint X

I can see someone have played Soul Linker class in Ragnarok Online :3
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Old 2008-01-28, 07:51   Link #18988
LoweGear
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint X View Post
well i have a lot doing, since I'm moving/downgrading my base of operations from the massive Outer Cadian Facility to a Quaint, Cozy and Peaceful Neo-Venezian Workshop in Calle Fantasia.

And such this profile will be the last item produced from the Outer Cadian Facility.

Spoiler for Orbit/Ring/Circle 3:


Questions will be entertained...

Saint X is now starting his movement to Neo-Venezia... ETA: Unknown...
Eeerh... so you're moving out of OC for good?!

Or you just gonna take your inspiration from somewhere else?

Anyways... "Kotona Elegance quality" sticks to me for some reason

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
Wang Liu Mei: Ah sou, sou...

Linda: So what?

Wang: Classified information.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha
Neither did I, until Lingo made me realize I was staring at Nagi. Hence the delayed Kick of Justice.

Anyway, if they were the Bakarangers, I suppose the missing 4th Baka is Ma--*static*--, deshou?

That doesn't explain the missing 5th Baka though...


Belkarangers are a whole different league to the Bakarangers though... no offense to their Sun Vulcanly awesomeness

And missing 5th Baka?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha
As Gimmy once put it: "What a perfect waste of the nekoroid female population."
Yes, what a waste

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha
Yeah especially after all the trailers and "trial runs" and "sneak peaks".

*runs too*
Yes... and of course, "previews"

*runs*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha
This is a GREAT IDEA! XD

In the next episode of Rebuilt of StrikerS...

"BakaRed, ORE SANJOU!"


*runs from Aaron and anti-OC-assassination activists while keeping an eye out for Mai*
"...

Deactivating External Camouflage layer.

Commencing Intervention."


*Mai >>>>> Kha*

Creator-san: Since when did she become a fan of 00?
Mai: ...

Gundam ni...

Creator-san:
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Old 2008-01-28, 08:04   Link #18989
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
Eeerh... so you're moving out of OC for good?!

Or you just gonna take your inspiration from somewhere else?

Anyways... "Kotona Elegance quality" sticks to me for some reason

NO, not moving out of the OC... I'm simply Moving/Downgrading My base to a NV Workshop- seen a couple of Undines during my chat with the workshop owner, who was moving to a bigger house next door- mostly Pairs and Singles... a Prima or two at the most- though the feeling of water soaking into my feet while chatting in a cafe is one thing i need to be used to...

Doing less grand items like the last one and more doing it in small doses... but still with the same materials... but at a slower pace.

And i'm currently engaged in a special deal... that might make your cry in joy.

All ARIA fans... please msg me your mailing address.

===

Rei mii is Kawaii...

But Kotona is Hawt...

*runs*
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Old 2008-01-28, 08:21   Link #18990
Wild Goose
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkellis View Post
Here's Hayate, super-powerful mage of a near-extinct magical legacy, S-ranked (or was it SS?), able to toss off heavy bombardment spells with abandon.

And the TSAB assigns her to what amounts to a desk job, after slapping several levels of limiters on her.

Chrono had a rank of AAA+ as of A's. Lindy had a rank of who knows what (I think I heard mention that she was also stupendously powerful). Both are also assigned to non-frontline roles as of StrikerS (and in Lindy's case, as of the first season).

Compare to the Wolkenritter, who wander around as an actual combat-active unit. I'm not sure what mage ranks they have, but it's likely pretty high. I'm not sure whether Fate also goes around righting wrongs, and Acous's talents seem to be based more appropriately on espionage than direct confrontations.

I'm beginning to believe that the TSAB also has its own hawks-and-doves political divide, even outside of Regius's schemes. If you're trying to make your characters more powerful in a combat sense, I'm thinking that you're going to have to acknowledge in the story that there'll be a lot of political backlash.
Tired and in a rush, so I'll Backlog Breaker later, and adress this first.

If we look at Lindy and Chrono's roles in A's and StrikerS, Lindy as a ship captain, Chrono as a fleet commander, then regardless of their experience or power they wouldn't be mixing it up in frontline combat. To make an example, on a US Navy aircaft carrier, the carrier's Captain is a qualified pilot (all carrier Captains are former pilots). However, in the event of an attack, regardless that he may be the most experienced pilot onboard, he is to stay on his ship, on the bridge, and keep out of the dogfights. Why?

Because he's not being paid to get in on the front lines. He's being paid to be a carrier pilot.

Likewise, Lindy's deployment into Precia's stronghold in MSLN is actually fairly out of charecter for most standard operating procedures - the captain is not supposed to leave her ship. When she became her captain, her rank and salary was given to her with the express orders that she stay onboard the ship and run it, not get up close and mix it up.

(Admittedly, the TSAB may not really follow this as an ironclad rule, being more gendarmie-like rather than a military.)

On the other hand, there's Genya Nakajima leading from the front... but again, Genya doesn't have any magic powers at all - while Hayate, Chrono and Lindy are pretty damned powerful.

So yes, it is quite possible that there will be political backlash.

(A subplot of Divergent Strikers is Erick's resistance to being promoted and his attempts to remain an eternal Colonel, considering how he's ranked as S. Likewise Ivanovich's official status as B, despite being AA, so as to avoid promotions and being chained to a desk.)

But yes, it does seem quite likely that there's a viewpoint in the TSAB that wants to keep the high-powered mages behind desks where an eye can be kept on them.

On the other hand, if you want to keep on mixing it up, then you shouldn't be asking for promotions anyway...
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Old 2008-01-28, 08:51   Link #18991
Chaos2Frozen
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Just in case dkellis is still interested to know...

Hayate is SS ranked.

Lindy is S ranked in the first season, and it's likely that it would remain so.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

One other thing...

I can understand why Lindy left her ship. Being the only S ranked onboard, she might just be the only one who is available to counter Precia's dimensional spell.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Now for my unnecessary opinion...

I think it's stupid for 7Arc/TSAB to assign powerful YOUNG mages to high ranking leadership roles that takes them out of the field.

Hayate and Chrono are such examples. Considering they were complaining about a lack of manpower, wouldn't it be more productive to have these healthy soldiers who are in their prime, fighting in the frontlines?

Maybe after a few years (If they lived that long) when they have calcium deposits in their joints then it would be time for them to leave the field.

(Then again, Hayate does have the excuse of a glass-cannon...)
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Old 2008-01-28, 09:50   Link #18992
Sheba
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Hayate's case is mostly like a random civilian level.0 NPC leveled up to a D&D level 20 wizard, and 7arc just did not know what to do with her, story-wise.
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Old 2008-01-28, 10:27   Link #18993
SpaceBrotha
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmiralTigerclaw View Post
Spoiler for Data:
I added the data itself for ease of reference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmiralTigerclaw View Post
Spoiler for wall of text:
Right, from the top it looks reasonable...
...but does go a bit awry at the hybrid part.

First off, i remembered that we already do have snipers, and magical guns in strikers (vice and tia come in mind)... so your idea is already there, partially atleast.

here's a bit of quote from the text above:
Quote:
Spoiler for about hybrid magic:
in the above text, you practically say that hybrid magic is instead magic mimicing the workings of conventional weaponry... you just say that you'll strip away all the pesky charge ups, incantations and sigils that seem to be mandatory for anything requiring substantial amounts of magical energy, and just hurl it downrange as fast as possible since that way it would be convenient... do you see a problem here?
...i know that sounds rude, but i can't get it out any better, sorry about that.

Quote:
Spoiler for about battery itself:
I'd like to point out here that your idea is that battery is more efficient because it doesn't bother with all the exotic elements, and merely focuses on direct line (or fairly direct line) firing of extremely condensed magical bullets with maximum efficiency.

Yet battery has: Bloodhound Breaker: - Max Homing and chasing range of Five thousand meters, for some wasted mental effort, magical energy, and conventional energy bleed... your words, not mine.
And a bloody mirv for good measure of unefficient damage delivery, as artillery hardly is the most efficient way of delivering damage, several singular shots with extreme accuracy would be far better suited for efficiency...

Which is directly in violation of this concept, correct?


Now, looking over the entire data again, i can accept just about everything right up to the cerberus df, though that is just fine other than there's still a ban on all truly conventional weaponry, but i think that's just a case of forgetting a word or two from the description.

Bloodhound breaker i already explained, though i should add that explosives (or anything emulating them) of any kind are contradictionary if your objective is to make something that doesn't waste any energy at all if possible.

Spectre barrage is still manageable, though i can't remember wether 40mm bofors rounds are meant as AP or HE rounds. As you'd want AP as much as possible here to accomplish your concept.

and meteor shower i already explained, as i did the problem with anything explosive when going for energy efficiency.

So, either a review of your concepts, or your prototype is in order...
...passing the ball back to you admiral
__________________
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"The truth of the matter is that you always know the right thing to do. The hard part is doing it." Norman Schwarzkopf
"Whoever stands by a just cause cannot possibly be called a terrorist." Yassar Arafat
Sayings and quotes hold wisdom in them. Either the wisdom is found in the correctness of the quote, or in the lesson learned from the error.
Hard part is figuring out who's making the errors...
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Old 2008-01-28, 10:37   Link #18994
Erio
Hiromi
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The Girl who Lost her Tears
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
At the moment I can only wonder why a sniper RH is a huge spoiler...
I was just saying that mentioning the VA gave it up.

Quote:
I don't know... Do we want to widely deviate from the original? I thought what I was doing was just filling in the gaps in Keroko's profiles in the different stages of her life. After all, I think I haven't deviated from what Keroko-kun has written.
Hm, I dont think I understand what you're thinking here... I got confused when you mentioned 2 different Kha scenarios, one for Kerokanon and another for "canon"... Maybe for the second you meant a canon timeline where Keroko does not exist?

Quote:


Kha wears the new Vex suit as an additional layer over the base form of his summoned Knight Armor during the Battle of Cradle. The suit boosts all of his attributes evenly, but as such is just a "Jack of All Trades but Master of None" kinda setting. Hence, against Clotho, that is not enough, so we'll definitely have Cast Off into Jaegerform, the speed armor.

Cheesy Announcer: But with Fate a little "tied up", even THAT is not enough. Can the Cleric rise above this dire challenge? Can he conquer his own demons and emerge victorious?

All this and more, on the next, The Cleric Forever!

*cues cheesy 1960s Batman theme*

Kha will have quite the challenge...how can the Cleric concentrate with Fate tied up like that...?

*runs*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post


If you want to rip, make sure you explain every detail, such that a purely Nanohaverse fan can understand you.

For example: I notice SRW get referenced a lot here. The advantage of that is that their attacks have videos to back them up with, and quoting those videos in your character profiles helps people who think SRW stands for Something Really Weird will have a better grasp of the character.

Another example is how LoweGear builds his OCs. They are really really descriptive, such that you have a mental picture forming in your head without having to be a big fan of Jigoku Shoujo and the Gainax works that feature in his efforts.

Most of all, none of them require you to know the story of origin that the character was based from. People yell at me "COPYPASTAAAAA!!!" all the time , but I hope that every time that happened, be it during a short exchange between characters, the conflicts they face, or ever a wider premise as a whole, I stayed true to my above words.

No matter how unoriginal, no matter how mind-blowing, I want to bring you in and share with you my vision, the scene I play in my twisted mind. And to do that, I must make sure I's as descriptive as I can.

Something like that I believe.


Nice speech there

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagerou View Post
Spoiler for New Barrier Jacket Armor System:


Good stuff.... and damn, this BJ is dang hawt...

*runs*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
  • I'm busy running some MAJOR overhauls in Aurion's profile as by doing some MAJOR de-HAXXing. (HAXXbusters cheer)
  • I'm planning on scrapping some more outragous ideas as well as making a more believable back-story for the Perfect Void (Universally fatal threat? Not any more.XD) in order to make it more feasible to the general public.
  • Also running ideas on how to bring about the Aurion vs. Hayate mock battle.
  • Planning out some MORE OC's.
  • Trying to inject an attempt at EPIC in one scene.
  • Conceptualizing the *beeeeeeeeeeep* in one scenario.
  • Revamping the spell list.
  • Doing even more powering down for some elements.
  • Inserting some scenes of the Perfect Void Incident in backflashes.
  • Scrapping the excessive referencing in my new OC's.
  • Contemplating on how to referecne Saga and the OFM in GenerationS.
  • Thinking of how to first insert Tk's OC's.
  • Thinking of proper tactics to use.
  • Thinking of how to 'believably' HAXX Luozorl further.
  • Thinking of Whether to add more ideas for Tyrfing.
  • Thinking of adding some familiars.
  • Thinking of adding some more OC's from others if possible.
  • Conceptualizing the final battle in a blievable light.
  • Making Hayate's performance believeable.
  • Changing the name and the concepts of the Bookmark System.
  • Offering some nostalgia for the Tome of the night Sky.
  • Thinking of a Tesla+Agito unison.
  • Thinking of a Hayate+Agito Unison...


In short, I want my story as canonically feasible as I can. And Yep, it's fun! Though I'm having particular trouble with portraying Hayate in combat due to excessive shafting.

I'd like to ask now (everyone who won't mind), how would you expect her to hold out in relatively close range? The initial idea is that she has a year under her wing for some training on mid to melee-range self-defense. How should she hold out against someone like say... Vita? As it is now, I'm imaging a large possibility of cries of, "She's supposed to do better!" or "She's not supposed to be THIS good!" or both. So I would like a general opinion. Her spellcasting is better now, BTW. But still way slower than most.

But I'm doing the others this a bit later, after enjoying MOAR Persona 3(Am bout to fight the monthly Third Boss in July) and doing even more important schoolwork. As well as moving into another condo unit.


Nice list, but Persona 3 will not let you get any of that done.

BTW, Yukari, Mitsuru, or Fuuka?

(I would guess you prefer Fuuka...)
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Old 2008-01-28, 10:39   Link #18995
Estavali
物語は、もう、おしまい……?
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the Horizon
Age: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
Hayate's case is mostly like a random civilian level.0 NPC leveled up to a D&D level 20 wizard, and 7arc just did not know what to do with her, story-wise.
Assuming this is true, one way to do it would be to nerf, or rather, reset Hayate after Rein I returned to the Force. In RO terms, it would be like making your neat 2nd classer with that shiny aura rebirth as a High Novice, seemingly starting all over again. For example, one can reduce her initial power levels to at most AA right after the YnS incident, making her weaker than Nanoha, Fate, Chrono and maybe even Yuuno.

Sacrilegious as this might seems, it would give Hayate more development space imho. I can add other "normal" people (Strikers, to quote Fate, rather than Aces) in without worrying whether Hayate is too haxx for the battlefield. And it is certainly much preferably than making her a glass-cannon, or try to nerf her in an unnatural way to make space for the others, only to end up with her horribly shafted for one of the supposedly illustrious Aces (which was what happened in StrikerS).

Nerf early or shaft late? I'll take the former, thank you .

Btw...

Kagerou, that design for the G3C... something from Hellgate London, no?
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Old 2008-01-28, 10:45   Link #18996
Sheba
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Location: Iwakawa base and Chaldea
Age: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Estavali View Post
Assuming this is true, one way to do it would be to nerf, or rather, reset Hayate after Rein I returned to the Force. In RO terms, it would be like making your neat 2nd classer with that shiny aura rebirth as a High Novice, seemingly starting all over again.
I love it when someone put it in terms I can understand.

*RO player here*
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Old 2008-01-28, 11:08   Link #18997
dkellis
illusion control
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Now for my unnecessary opinion...

I think it's stupid for 7Arc/TSAB to assign powerful YOUNG mages to high ranking leadership roles that takes them out of the field.

Hayate and Chrono are such examples. Considering they were complaining about a lack of manpower, wouldn't it be more productive to have these healthy soldiers who are in their prime, fighting in the frontlines?

Maybe after a few years (If they lived that long) when they have calcium deposits in their joints then it would be time for them to leave the field.

(Then again, Hayate does have the excuse of a glass-cannon...)
The question I would ask is: what field, and what frontlines? (This is not a rhetorical question; I'm genuinely curious.)

I'm not sure what sort of personnel TSAB is short-handed in. As far as we know, there isn't any actual war happening in the canon. Regius mentioned in his flashback with Zest that the Ground Forces are lacking the personnel to deal with the high-powered criminals who create disturbances "on the ground", so to speak. I'm thinking that in those cases, you send the equivalent of Special Forces in, rather than the heavy artillery. The skillsets are very different.

Basically, I'm not sure that the TSAB really needs to have a huge army (and navy) already Out There, as opposed to being on standby or whatnot. I mean, we've got Erio and Caro out who knows where with environmental conservation, which is not the most obvious place to post someone with a spear Device, even if he requested it. Subaru is in Search-And-Rescue, and I have no idea what Teana is doing as Fate's aide.

And yet the navy exists, and we have a huge number of military mages, and the Arthra was fitted with the Arc en Ciel of the city-destroying destructive power. I have no idea if they're all mostly on patrol and standby, or if they're actually out there in force doing something. (In force, mind.)

I'm beginning to believe that the TSAB's method of recruiting and rapidly promoting high-ranking mages is their way of being able to keep an eye on said mages, rather than let them get bored and create some mischief.
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Old 2008-01-28, 11:09   Link #18998
Wild Goose
Truth Martyr
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Doing Anzu's paperwork.
Age: 32
Okay, it's finally done! Who. Now I can sleep.

Spoiler for Master Chief John-117, Skills & Abilities:


Man, rewriting, researching and checking out stuff was a bitch. I've tried to strike a balance, toning down the MJOLNIR Mk VI armor while still keeping it badass and canon to the books (yes, yes, yes, I understand I'm playing in the Nanoverse, this is an attempt to translate Master Chief into the Nanoverse and make it fit, not like a certain god and certain copypasta XD)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Estavali View Post
Kagerou, that design for the G3C... something from Hellgate London, no?
Actually, no. It's a stylised Ghost suit from Starcraft, for use by the psychic Ghost commandos. (And no, in canon Starcraft, the female version doesn't have heels. In this version, however...)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
I think it's stupid for 7Arc/TSAB to assign powerful YOUNG mages to high ranking leadership roles that takes them out of the field.

Hayate and Chrono are such examples. Considering they were complaining about a lack of manpower, wouldn't it be more productive to have these healthy soldiers who are in their prime, fighting in the frontlines?

Maybe after a few years (If they lived that long) when they have calcium deposits in their joints then it would be time for them to leave the field.

(Then again, Hayate does have the excuse of a glass-cannon...)
I dunno. The TSAB seems to be following the idea that you commission mages fast and quickly if they're hi-powered; IIRC, almost all A-ranked mages are put through OCS, and Chrono was already a high-ranking Enforcer at 9. Also, remember what I posted above: Lindy was a ship captain, Chrono is a fleet commander - when you're at that level of rank, you are not paid or given your rank to go and slog it out on the frontlines, you're supposed to COMMAND.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkellis View Post
I'm not sure what sort of personnel TSAB is short-handed in. As far as we know, there isn't any actual war happening in the canon. Regius mentioned in his flashback with Zest that the Ground Forces are lacking the personnel to deal with the high-powered criminals who create disturbances "on the ground", so to speak. I'm thinking that in those cases, you send the equivalent of Special Forces in, rather than the heavy artillery. The skillsets are very different.
Not to mention the mindsets - a policing mindset isn't quite what you need when dealing with issues that Special Forces get involved in. That's pretty much how the Order of Freelance Mages got started; as Special Forces...although their bent was more to being the hunters of the TSAB, assasinating corrupt officials.

Quote:
Basically, I'm not sure that the TSAB really needs to have a huge army (and navy) already Out There, as opposed to being on standby or whatnot. I mean, we've got Erio and Caro out who knows where with environmental conservation, which is not the most obvious place to post someone with a spear Device, even if he requested it. Subaru is in Search-And-Rescue, and I have no idea what Teana is doing as Fate's aide.
Erio in environmental protection with Caro is admittedly weird. On the other hand, perhaps Admin felt they owed it to him to give him somewhere to relax and cool off. As Fate's aide, I'm guessing Teana will be getting practical hands-on knowledge of the workings of the Enforcers, which will be a help when she officially joins them (IIRC, she's been shooting for Enforcer for a long time now).
And yet the navy exists, and we have a huge number of military mages, and the Arthra was fitted with the Arc en Ciel of the city-destroying destructive power. I have no idea if they're all mostly on patrol and standby, or if they're actually out there in force doing something. (In force, mind.)

Quote:
I'm beginning to believe that the TSAB's method of recruiting and rapidly promoting high-ranking mages is their way of being able to keep an eye on said mages, rather than let them get bored and create some mischief.
To be honest, it does seem that way. Which is again why Ivanovich supressed his actual mage rank of AA+; he didn't want to be demoted and placed somewhere where the brass could keep an eye on him (in terms of influence, Sergeant Major > junior-level officer). It strikes me that the TSAB arent really making good and full use of their talents... on the other hand, the same thing has always happened to the new ideas in any organisation. Just witness how the US Air Force was dead-set against Special Operations at first.
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I believe in miracles.


Last edited by Wild Goose; 2008-01-28 at 18:13.
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Old 2008-01-28, 11:14   Link #18999
Kha
~ I Do ~
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: In the XV-8A Spartan "00"
Age: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post


Belkarangers are a whole different league to the Bakarangers though... no offense to their Sun Vulcanly awesomeness

And missing 5th Baka?
I get it.

You mean there wasn't 5? Either my memory is failing me, or some of my own crack overwrote some piece of canon info...

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
"...

Deactivating External Camouflage layer.

Commencing Intervention."


*Mai >>>>> Kha*

Creator-san: Since when did she become a fan of 00?
Mai: ...

Gundam ni...

Creator-san:
The crack builds...

Spoiler for WTF is this?:
Reading this and watching Epi 16 sorta reacted violently...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erio View Post
Hm, I dont think I understand what you're thinking here... I got confused when you mentioned 2 different Kha scenarios, one for Kerokanon and another for "canon"... Maybe for the second you meant a canon timeline where Keroko does not exist?
I thought of 3 timelines:

1. Original timeline that had Kha dodging Ion Canon like mad, and Keroko being Nanoha's closest cousin instead of sister. In this timeline, Tesla might not exist.

2. Keroko's vision of the timeline, with events mirroring canon except for insertions.

3. My take on 2, factoring what Keroko's more prominent existence as Nanoha's sister would've changed in the entire timeline. I've tried my best to remain true to Keroko's summaries, but where there are gaps, I have fun. As such, 3 can be exactly like 2, but due to all the additional stuff I added to make the deal sweeter and more feasible, 3 would resemble nothing like 1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erio View Post
Kha will have quite the challenge...how can the Cleric concentrate with Fate tied up like that...?

*runs*
It's a big motivation.

*runs*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erio View Post


Nice speech there
But Ling-tan said I still didn't get it. Wi...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Estavali View Post
Assuming this is true, one way to do it would be to nerf, or rather, reset Hayate after Rein I returned to the Force. In RO terms, it would be like making your neat 2nd classer with that shiny aura rebirth as a High Novice, seemingly starting all over again. For example, I intend to reduce her initial power levels to at most AA right after the YnS incident, making her weaker than Nanoha, Fate, Chrono and maybe even Yuuno.

Sacrilegious as this might seems, it would give Hayate more development space imho. I can add other "normal" people (Strikers, to quote Fate, rather than Aces) in without worrying whether Hayate is too haxx for the battlefield. And it is certainly much preferably than making her a glass-cannon, or try to nerf her in an unnatural way to make space for the others, only to end up with her horribly shafted for one of the supposedly illustrious Aces (which was what happened in StrikerS).

Nerf early or shaft late? I'll take the former, thank you .
I'm working with Hayate being too dangerous to anyone around her when she's completely unlimited, having so much power with so little control, and not to mention liking to go all out. Remember how she seemed to dance when her bell got removed a little?
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Old 2008-01-28, 12:42   Link #19000
AdmiralTigerclaw
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Subspace, Texas
Age: 34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceBrotha View Post


I'd like to point out here that your idea is that battery is more efficient because it doesn't bother with all the exotic elements, and merely focuses on direct line (or fairly direct line) firing of extremely condensed magical bullets with maximum efficiency.

Yet battery has: Bloodhound Breaker: - Max Homing and chasing range of Five thousand meters, for some wasted mental effort, magical energy, and conventional energy bleed... your words, not mine.
And a bloody mirv for good measure of unefficient damage delivery, as artillery hardly is the most efficient way of delivering damage, several singular shots with extreme accuracy would be far better suited for efficiency...

Which is directly in violation of this concept, correct?

Yes they are, but neccissary exceptions to the rule. You of course note that these are two attacks, both of which have drawbacks, out of a predominately LOS based energy hurler.

In the Case of the Bloodhound Breaker (Which pretty much sniffs out the target like Bloodhound, thus it's name.) You're talking about an Air to Air missile. In an extended air battle, volume of fire and accuracy are major issues against high speed targets moving in all three dimensions. If you can't really use the conventional packages kill power because you just keep missing, you have a serious tactical defficiency.
This doesn't change the primary mission power of the device, it augments with the neccissary fallback you'd need to cover certain situatiosn.
In the case of Bloodhound Breaker, there is a charge time, and a lock time. It has rudimentary five kilometer homing, but it's all the homing of a sidewinder missile. (Since it's a fast moving homing attack with only moderate guidance.) The actual fired shot is a condensed high energy package, and it just explodes. If you miss, might as well aim and launch a followup shot.

The Meteor Shower attack is pretty much the heavy fire support general purpose blanket effect attack. It serves its purpose as the backbone high energy attack for taking on things like large groups, spaced groups, or hitting a wide area with considerable destructive force. Not as good at killing 'tanks' as a HELLFIRE II missile, but decent at damaging and/or knocking out 'APCs' Especially when you have loads of them to shoot at. It's nice if you could sit and pick them off all day, but we're not talking about target dummies. We're talking about intelligent opponents who REALLY don't want to stand around and have their heads blown off. Sometimes all you can do in the occaisional case is saturate the area and hope for a hit. That's the niche the attack covers. Otherwise you gotta phone up Hayate and ask for a Hraesvelgr.

And given the... availability of mages with high power wide area combat magic, there is a tendancy to lack what you need. It's not like we have S class mages lined up on a storage rack just waiting to fly off and nuke something.

Quote:
Now, looking over the entire data again, i can accept just about everything right up to the cerberus df, though that is just fine other than there's still a ban on all truly conventional weaponry, but i think that's just a case of forgetting a word or two from the description.
Since none of the attacks are throwing mass rounds downrange (though if you want to get technical and argue the legality of a condensed ion packet on the grounds of a mass weapon, good luck), it's perfectly legal.

There's also another issue that just because mass weapons are banned, doesn't mean the administration that banned them can't issue a permit for their use to its forces. Vita has her Swallow Flier to hurl at people after all. If Vita's using of Graff Isen to play Croquett with bowling ball sized chunks of iron with your skull as the target doesn't qualify as a mass weapon, I don't know what does, unless they are thinking more along the lines of the destructive potential of actual, nuclear weapons. (If Fate's little briefing early on was any indicator, the TSAB are deathly afraid of the power of Nukes. If the term 'push a button, destroy a city' means anything.)

Quote:
Bloodhound breaker i already explained, though i should add that explosives (or anything emulating them) of any kind are contradictionary if your objective is to make something that doesn't waste any energy at all if possible.
Actually, it's more of a conserve MAGICAL energy and utilize more direct energy delivery, than just plain being energy efficient. After all, you can hurl a packet of magic downrange at the cost of that magical energy, or you can use a fraction of that to collect ambient energy from your environment and throw that downrange with the same effect. And an ambient environment is absolutely energy RICH.

Since a linker core's concerned only with magical energy, a good function for economizing is not to use brute magical force by itself, but use it to channel non-magical force. More efficient in magical energy use, and less stressfull on those cores. Especially since it's the linker core that concerns most of the firepower of a given mage.

Quote:
Spectre barrage is still manageable, though i can't remember wether 40mm bofors rounds are meant as AP or HE rounds. As you'd want AP as much as possible here to accomplish your concept.
Actually, BOFORS rounds can be AP, HE, or HEAP if you so desire. Even timed fuse Frag or SABOT if you're feeling nasty. The gun doesn't restrict the type of ammo, just how big you can make it. What you use depends on your mission. Spectre Barrage pretty much just goes for straight up HEAP.

Quote:
and meteor shower i already explained, as i did the problem with anything explosive when going for energy efficiency.

So, either a review of your concepts, or your prototype is in order...
...passing the ball back to you admiral
Reviewed and checked, adendum is that it's not energy efficiency, it's MAGICAL energy efficiency.

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