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View Poll Results: Madoka Magica - Episode 07 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 58 | 41.13% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 47 | 33.33% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 23 | 16.31% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 9 | 6.38% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 3 | 2.13% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 0 | 0% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 0 | 0% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 1 | 0.71% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 141. You may not vote on this poll |
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2011-02-17, 19:43 | Link #81 | |||
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So you are presuming that this is the method, but we don't have proof of that. And still, in order to inflict that pain, he has to touch the soul gem while it is out like that. That doesn't sound like a particularly easy way to enforce something. It would be incredibly easy for a girl to protect her gem from Kyube touching it. Quote:
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2011-02-17, 19:50 | Link #82 |
Tenshi's Defense Squadron
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Fighting against those who oppress the system
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“Attachment leads to jealousy. The shadow of greed, that is”
““Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”” ~Yoda
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2011-02-17, 19:55 | Link #83 |
The Chaotic Dreamer
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: In a cruel yet beautiful world
Age: 32
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I can NOT wait to see this subbed. I scanned through the raw because I couldn't help myself, and boy does this look juicy. My predictions (which I kept to myself) were pretty spot on. The only thing that blew me away this episode was Hitomi being thrown into the mix; all this time I was thinking of her as a toss-away/semi-comedy relief character, but now it turns out that she actually plays a part in Sayaka's inevitable psychological breakdown. Nice.
Kyoko's actions were also something I wasn't expecting, although I kept the possibility in mind. Unless she's just pretending or something/waiting for the right moment to backstab. I loved psycho Sayaka. <3 Oh, and QB has probably made me madder this episode than in any other. Leave. Sayaka. Alone.
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2011-02-17, 20:02 | Link #84 |
my sides are in orbit
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Haha. Just thinking about the reaction of QB defenders amuse me. It will make my day. This episode also gives insight about the extent of Mami's mental broken-ness.
Spoiler for eps7:
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Last edited by scr; 2011-02-17 at 20:29. |
2011-02-17, 20:04 | Link #85 | ||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: California
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Also taking away a wish that you regret making doesn't seem to be a real mechanism for controlling MGs. As Mami, Homura, and Kyoko proved that all their wishes became something they ended up regretting. So I'm inclined to believe that the tools QB has at his disposal are more .... absolute in power. Quote:
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2011-02-17, 20:16 | Link #86 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
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Not Homura. She said she has not regrets about her wish, even if she had to give up everything, even herself, for the sake of that wish. Since her main concern from the beginning has been to prevent Madoka from makeing a contract, it's pretty clear her wish has something to do with that.
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2011-02-17, 20:23 | Link #87 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2010
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I could totally see Kyoko and Sayaka regret, because they got none of what that actually wanted (Kyoko wanting a good family + happy father, Sayaka wanting Kamijiou); but it seemed to me like Mami just wanted to live, and...well...she did live longer than what she would otherwise be... |
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2011-02-17, 20:42 | Link #90 |
Senior Member
Author
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Kaijo - In fairness, I see where a lot of specific details favor your position. You're right that Madoka isn't terribly helpful right now.
However, I have this feeling that Urobuchi may be painting with broad strokes in the proverbial background, while allowing specific details to camouflage what's really going on. The genius to such an approach is that you get light foreshadowing that looks very good when the viewer looks over the series a second time, but also that you may end up surprising a lot of your viewers with a good plot twist for the initial viewing. So let's put aside the trees of specific details for a second, and just focus on the forest of broad strokes. Two girls are each asked to become a magical girl. Both get to see a magical girl in action (and both the pros and cons which that entails) before making a choice. One girl decides to become a magical girl, with a wish for a friend in mind and a desire to fight witches and familiars to protect people. The other girl decides to not become a magical girl, as caution rules the day for her, with the magical girl role seeming too dangerous to her for its own good. The girl that decides to become a magical girl slowly, but surely, spirals downward into an abyss because of it. First, it makes her more willing to engage in lethal combat with another person. Secondly, it's making her go downright psychotic, based on what we've read in this episode thread so far. As a person, Sayaka seems to be changing for the worst. The girl that chose the cautious path tries to talk her magical girl friend into favoring a peaceful course of action over a violent one. She advises talking things out. And interestingly, it now seems that such a diplomatic course of action may have worked, as Kyoko makes a truce in this episode. The girl that chose the cautious path also is the one suffering less, of the two girls. All of Madoka's current problems are due to Sayaka choosing to be a magical girl. As a person, Madoka has remained fairly constant, her beliefs and convictions left unchanged. Now, it's clear that Madoka's decisions and words are shaped a lot by idealism. She doesn't want to risk her life fighting witches, but she does like the idea of helping people that are endangered by them (which is why she says "Sayaka is doing the right thing"). She refuses to give up on Sayaka, even after Homura repeatedly tells her to. She doesn't want Sayaka to engage in lethal combat, even with someone seemingly as psychotic as Kyoko is. It's abundantly clear that Madoka doesn't want to get her hands dirty, but she also doesn't want herself or anybody else to get hurt. Long story short, Madoka is desperately searching for a very idealistic solution. Madoka hasn't found it yet, but that doesn't mean that she won't. If she does find it, then it could be seen as Madoka being rewarded for sticking to her convictions and values through a long, bitter storm. Now, I'm not saying that this is what I necessarily want, but I do see it as a striking possibility. Two girls, two different choices, and two different outcomes, with the more idealistic girl suffering less out of those outcomes. I think that might say a lot.
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2011-02-17, 21:01 | Link #91 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
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Then again, you do make it clear that you won't like it as much if the show ends like this lol.
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2011-02-17, 21:03 | Link #92 | |
Just some guy
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Antonio, TX
Age: 62
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2011-02-17, 21:10 | Link #94 | |||||||
Banned
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Sayaka is learning that life isn't fair, essentially. Quote:
Hindsight is 20/20; I wouldn't fall into that trap if I were you. It's like a serial killer pointing a gun at your family, and you can shoot him to save your family, but someone else says, "There has to be another way!" And then a piano falls from the sky and lands on him, and then you proudly proclaim, "See? There was another way!" Another kink in your idealism theory: Madoka wanted Homura to look out for Sayaka. In short, she wants someone else to do the dirty work that she herself doesn't want to do. That the kind of idealism you want winning through? It's not that Madoka wants to do things peacefully, it's that she's afraid to get her hands dirty, and wants someone else to. It may be an understandable fear, but it mars that perfect idealism that would somehow elevate her above Sayaka. Orphans are drowning. Madoka and Sayaka are standing on the shore. Madoka is afraid to go in, but Sayaka jumps in and saves some, then gets swept away by the current. And yet, somehow Madoka was the better, more idealistic person? "Everything will just work out if I hope and believe. I don't want to take that step, but I'm sure someone else will so I don't have to!" Quote:
Sayaka even points out to Madoka, that if she had made the choice earlier, perhaps Mami would still be alive. She doesn't want to have that regret again. She doesn't want to be in a position where someone close to her dies, because she could have had the power to stop it, and didn't. It's an idealistic notion that you can prevent tragedy if you just have enough power, which Sayaka is learning doesn't quite work. Even if you have power, bad things can still happen. Quote:
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But you can't base your life on the hope that somehow everything will work out. You yourself have pointed out that this series is more realistic. In reality, things don't just turn out fine because you have an idealistic hope. So what you come out saying, is that Mami and Sayaka just weren't quite idealistic enough. They were only 60% and 90% idealistic, so they deserved to die and suffer mentally. Regardless of what you think of their idealism, it was idealism, and in an idealistic series, that would be enough to see them through their trials. Quote:
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And you can't paint Madoka's idealism as good, either, because her choice to not be an MG, means that more humans will suffer thanks to witches. It means Sayaka will suffer because she can't stand up to Kyoko and Homura alone. That the kind of idealism you're going for? "Hey, I abandon my friends and everyone else to save myself, thus my idealism is the right one." Actually, that's fairly close to Kyoko's cynicism, hmm... So actually, if Madoka perseveres with her current "idealism" then it wouldn't have been such an idealistic story after all. |
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2011-02-17, 21:31 | Link #95 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
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The most impressionables are the easiest to led astray. The self-righteous will not stand to reason. To that end Sayaka will not yet directly do something wrong, but she definately will cause damage either by hesitation or as an unexpected consequence - someone will be seriously hurt/die next episode. Then Sayaka goes bonkers :P
What Homura described as an ideal magic girl is not about being the best magic girl for the system, but rather the best(sane) magic girl for what's left of the original person. Even then, it is assumed the magic girl to know as little about the nature of their transformation as possible. I view it a case of the more they know, the more overwhelming despair they will feel. I almost feel KB is doing a service by not telling them the truth, though one may argue KB then shouldn't get magic girls to contracts so readily but that's probably KB's job description. As the series progressed first we see the idealistic magic girl, represented by Mami and her beliefs, then the free-will type in Kyoko - both are somewhat at peace with their situation. Sayaka is a case where she made the contract in haste, then found out too much about the system for her own good. The knowledge itself can be viewed as a barrier to become a magic girl and with what Madoka knows now, the situation that warrants a contract will be really dire. |
2011-02-17, 21:56 | Link #97 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kyrgyzstan, Bishkek
Age: 40
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Now that QB was creepy. It almost feels like he lets his mask slip a bit and underneath is outright evilness
On the other hand Homura does not label him as such. Ambivalence. Probably she just doesn't know. Probably. Or may be someone wanted us to think he is evil. May be. Ambivalence. Whatewer the case, I want to kill both of them. Certainty.
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2011-02-17, 21:59 | Link #98 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
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Homura about Kyubey and his miracles: "Truly, miracles can not even be purchased with one's life. Yet, he's selling them."
So it means he's getting extra payment for those "miracles" somehow. Perhaps the grief seeds he eats is such a payment. In any case, Kyubey looks more and more like the devil (or at least Mephisto) with every new episode.
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2011-02-17, 22:12 | Link #99 |
Banned
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Oh, we already knew he was getting something out of it. He said at the beginning that it was equivalent exchange, and that the girls would be getting paid. Although true they never really asked him what he was getting out of it, but then again, they haven't really been smart enough to really think and ask any questions in advance.
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2011-02-17, 22:14 | Link #100 | |
Senior Member
Author
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My instinctive reaction to a magical girl is that it's awesome to have super powers, and it's even better to be able to use those super powers for a good cause. Magical girls are basically Superman in the shape of a moe girl fighting for Truth, Justice, and the Japanese Way. What's not to like? So to internalize the idea that in this show being a magical girl is a reflection of a wrong choice that will only make matters way worse, and is one of the bleakest existences possible, is a very tough pill to swallow for someone like myself. But it's hard to ignore the very negative events that have been caused by Sayaka's choice to become a magical girl. Sure, Madoka is suffering too, but it's only because her friend chose to be a magical girl. So, the fact remains that Sayaka's choice is, on the whole, making things a whole lot worse. For her, and her friend. Madoka doesn't take the magical girl offer because it's an imperfect one, that involves gruesome combat. She wants a better solution than that. That feeds right into pacifistic idealism. In some shows, I'd find a character like Madoka annoying. But in this one, maybe she's right. It certainly seems to be pointing that way so far, imo.
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