2009-08-02, 18:39 | Link #3042 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
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However, I disagree with you and the "17 persons and therefore it has to be one of those" theory.
After all, it could be that at least one of those 17 persons has also been dead before like Kinzo which would leave room for one more person like the Kanon=Shannon theories. Acutally, for various reasons I am not to fond of those theories but I at least can't deny that it would be possible. As said: I can accept that the murders were done by humans. Actually, I expect that BUT I can't except that no magic exists at all. It would be just too "stupid". Somehow, I think that the loops are being done by a witch. However, for a total different purpose then we currently think and I don't think that witch is the culprit - as said I think the culprit is a human. |
2009-08-02, 18:40 | Link #3043 | |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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Could a helicopter make it through that storm, I wonder? >_> |
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2009-08-02, 18:40 | Link #3044 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
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-My will to find a miracle that allows me to escape a tragic fate exists -I call this will Bernkastel -Bernkastel exists I think there could be explanations for everything in Umineko like this. |
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2009-08-02, 18:41 | Link #3045 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Warwick, RI
Age: 40
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I don't ignore the magic scenes just because I don't think they are real -- that's like saying you ignore dream sequences because they don't really happen. Just like with dream sequences, even if you believe the magic deaths in Umineko are fake, it doesn't mean you should ignore them. In fact, you should pay all the more attention to them, because more than likely, there are hints to the real events hidden in there; and secondly, the magic scenes in Umineko almost always tell you very important things about the characters -- the biggest and best example being Eva-Beatrice in EP 3.
edit: Anyway, as I tried to explain earlier, just because you are anti-Fantasy doesn't necessarily mean you don't think magic exists. It means, technically, that you think the murders weren't committed with magic. Personally, I don't think Beatrice is a witch, or at least not in the way she presents herself. I do think Bernkastel and Lambdadelta exist as some kind of entity, but "witch" is perhaps a label they give themselves when they associate with the world of Umineko. |
2009-08-02, 18:46 | Link #3047 | ||
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Join Date: Jun 2008
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2009-08-02, 18:48 | Link #3048 | |||
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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The 'associative logic' kind of stops there. Quote:
Belief equals power. Belief equals reality. A strong enough belief can shape the world. Quote:
Still, if Suit Beatrice isn't one of the 17 then she has to be getting onto the island somehow AFTER someone dies. |
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2009-08-02, 18:50 | Link #3049 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
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I edited my previous statement a bit. It isn't more unlikely but at least not more likely. Therefore I also removed the first sentence completely
However, it depends on the helicopter. There are some that are more resistent to wind too. However, that is 1986 we are talking about and keeping that in mind, I don't think there existed one that could have made it through the storm. However, a plane might be able to get through. The problem would just be where to land. Quote:
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2009-08-02, 18:54 | Link #3050 | ||
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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It's only set so far back so that no one has the Internet or cellphones, which are far too useful for solving mysteries. Quote:
That would utterly kill it... |
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2009-08-02, 18:56 | Link #3051 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Well: I doubt on an island like Rokkenjima you would have working cell phones (especially in Japan they don't use GSM but more something like DECT and nowadays UMTS). Maybe internet but even that I doubt. At least it wouldn't work when the phones aren't working.
So that can't be the reason. They wouldn't be able to use those things anyway. As said that is not my theory and I don't like it/agree with it for various reasons but I don't to bring up that discussion again. We won't reach a point there anyway. |
2009-08-02, 18:59 | Link #3052 | |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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Modern technology kills classic mysteries. (News at 11.) That's really the only reason Ryukishi sets his stories so far back. |
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2009-08-02, 19:01 | Link #3053 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Nope. NOT with that storm. Actually, satellites are the most unlikely thing to work as those require a line of sight. If the storm is strong enough, no satellite will ever work
And even if: How many have a satellite telephone because most times you only receive from satellites but not transmit. Of course, in that case it would be likely as that family has quite some money. The real problem would be possibilities regarding the murder cases. There would be way more possibilities to do it, e.g. Ep1 Eva could have been killed by a small robot which can shoot stakes and was controlled over a remote. |
2009-08-02, 19:02 | Link #3054 |
Intellectual Thug
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: In the hood, Pa, United States
Age: 38
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Beatrice probably knew she couldn't win going into this. So, in the end she will technically win by meeting what ever goal she had in the first place, which would have to do with 6 years ago. Now, all we need to do is firgure that out.
Maybe, Jessica or Shannon was close to Battler and fealt he abandoned them? |
2009-08-02, 19:07 | Link #3056 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
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I added a few lines to my previous post as to why I think, he probably uses such years and a small explanation why satellites won't work and also some other points.
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Also if it was one of them, why would they kill everyone? I mean I would understand killing Battler or his family or something like this but EVERYONE? Of course, I think it is likely that his cousins missed him. After all they welcomed him "back" nicely but killing everyone AFTER he came back? |
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2009-08-02, 19:11 | Link #3057 |
Intellectual Thug
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: In the hood, Pa, United States
Age: 38
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Yes, that happens to be the pitfall in my theories. Though I can only see it as Battler doing something that hurt someone greatly. Choosing Shannon cause she seems to be able to remember small details of the past and Jessica because it seems they was close with all the battler getting beat-up on.
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2009-08-02, 19:14 | Link #3058 | ||
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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2009-08-02, 19:14 | Link #3059 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
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@USHIROMIYABRAWLER:
However, I agree that Battler and Jessica seem to have a "deeper relationship" (under " because I think it will be misinterpreted otherwise but I just can't remember a better English word currently) than the rest of the cousins. They seem to know each other "more". lol: Actually, that is even Anti-Fantasy as a time loop doesn't have to occur by magic |
2009-08-02, 19:19 | Link #3060 | |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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Unless you want to rely on loltimemachines. Which I would describe as magic for the purposes of this story due to the whole "sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" thing. |
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