Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei Manga Discussion (Licensed)

[fujin of shadows]

By the way, chapter 2 to 6 of Reminiscence has been translated....

[Mentar]

...and Miyuki is criminally cute in them.

In a way I'm sad that Reminiscence is not going to make it into the anime. Because it could potentially redeem the crime that Madhouse pulled with Miyuki in the anime.

[bakato]

Originally Posted by Mentar

...and Miyuki is criminally cute in them.

In a way I'm sad that Reminiscence is not going to make it into the anime. Because it could potentially redeem the crime that Madhouse pulled with Miyuki in the anime.

What'd they do? I don't see anything wrong with their portrayal of Miyuki.

[fujin of shadows]

Originally Posted by bakato

What'd they do? I don't see anything wrong with their portrayal of Miyuki.

The problem with Miyuki's portrayal in the Anime is her lack in depth.......The reason Miyuki is popular character for the Manga and Light Novel readers is that they could see Miyuki's complexity as the female lead....The anime failed to show the complexity of Miyuki's character......

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by bakato

What'd they do? I don't see anything wrong with their portrayal of Miyuki.

They've been omitting all critical "Miyuki's inner dialogue" scenes. These scenes show that Miyuki knows much more than she lets on, and they also indicate why Miyuki is acting the way she is - without them, she turns into a caricature of her own self - a pretty airbrained doll that only has her brother on her mind and nothing else.

Sorry, the anime is completely crude and primitive in this aspect, overemphasizing all the wrong things (those which were already overemphasized in the novel to begin with, compounding the problem). Horrible.

[kusabireika]

Originally Posted by Mentar

They've been omitting all critical "Miyuki's inner dialogue" scenes. These scenes show that Miyuki knows much more than she lets on, and they also indicate why Miyuki is acting the way she is - without them, she turns into a caricature of her own self - a pretty airbrained doll that only has her brother on her mind and nothing else.

Sorry, the anime is completely crude and primitive in this aspect, overemphasizing all the wrong things (those which were already overemphasized in the novel to begin with, compounding the problem). Horrible.

Same though sigh well better I enjoy it >_> I think they hate Azusa

[Tiberium Wolf]

I have just read Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei - Yokohama Souranhen. Nooooooooooo... WTF with the artist... it's all wrong. IT'S HORRIBLE THE ART!!!

For making each arc you go and ask other artist. From the quality of this one I guess it was pretty cheap.

[Altrelo]

The art was horrible, some of the character do not look like themselves.

[caminhas]

damn masaki

Spoiler for DAT body:

[Awrya]

Originally Posted by caminhas

damn masaki

Spoiler for DAT body:

Only shows Stop Stealing Brandwidth.
But here's the picture:

Images

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Masaki on steroids?

Seriously, why did they choose this artist?

[novalysis]

Just read the Reminiscence arc manga adaptation up to Chapter 8. I think that the serious trust issues Miyuki had about Tatsuya in the Reminiscence arc still exist under all those profuse Onii-Samas and Bro-con teasing. And Volume 13 and 14 (especially in Chapter 1 of volume 14, when Miyuki wonders how much control she really has over Tatsuya) simply demonstrates that the trust issue still exist on several levels, and manifest themselves in slightly different ways.

Another interesting thought about the Reminiscence arc - I think that Miyuki's relation with Tatsuya is just another one of those deliberate artificial emotional manipulations that Miyuki inflicts on herself. Miyuki wears many masks, and the monologues come closest to who Miyuki is under all those mask, many of which she forces herself to "sincerely" believe.

The way I see it, after Reminiscence, Miyuki saw Tatsuya not as a disposable shield, but a very, very dangerous flaming sword technically in her hands, but with a will of his own. For the sake of controlling that sword, Miyuki convinces her ownself to take on the earnest mask of the "devoted sister", and forces herself to believe in the truth of that mask, as Honami trained Miyuki to do.

Setting this with Volume 14, I suspect Miyuki still doesn't fully realize that Tatsuya will sub-ordinate himself to Miyuki unconditionally, even without the play of siblinghood taken to warped extreme; that Miyuki thinks is the best way she can keep Tatsuya's loyalties, after a childhood of inadvertently treating Tatsuya as disposable wallpaper. Miyuki attributed her ability to rein Tatsuya back to her tears - I don't think she quite realized that it was the phrasing of her preference, into a near command (Onii-Sama's only concern is me... etc) that brought Tatsuya to heel. Not Miyuki's performance of the crying imouto.

From Tatsuya's perspective, I suspect that Tatsuya does not want freedom from Miyuki, and does not believe that the world would accept Tatsuya being free, because of what Tatsuya could potentially do with that said freedom. However, with his ties to FLT, the Military, to Miyuki and the Yotsubas, he's constructed things such that he has room for maneuver, and has limited what his erstwise masters can order him to do by putting himself under multiple masters, the one person with the sole over-riding veto over his other masters being none other than Miyuki herself.


I suspect Miyuki has two contradictory desires - to treat Tatsuya as an equal, yet control that dangerous sword which she holds the safeties on.

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by novalysis

Just read the Reminiscence arc manga adaptation up to Chapter 8. I think that the serious trust issues Miyuki had about Tatsuya in the Reminiscence arc still exist under all those profuse Onii-Samas and Bro-con teasing. And Volume 13 and 14 (especially in Chapter 1 of volume 14, when Miyuki wonders how much control she really has over Tatsuya) simply demonstrates that the trust issue still exist on several levels, and manifest themselves in slightly different ways.

You are aware that in the Reminiscence manga adaption up to chapter 8, Miyuki is still at "ani" and not "onii-sama", right? She is still struggling against the "Tatsuya is merely a tool for your protection" conditioning at this time. She is frustrated that she doesn't really understand him, but since she has a naturally kind disposition, she feels that how she is taught to treat him is _wrong_. But at the point in time in chapter 8, there is no real _trust_ between them yet.

At the end of LN8 and onward, the relationship between Miyuki and Tatsuya is incomparably different. By then, Miyuki's trust in Tatsuya's abilities and determination to protect her is near-absolute. I also feel that your description of Miyuki's worries at the begin of LN14 as "control" is a bit off. Miyuki doesn't seek to "control" Tatsuya. She seeks to protect him when he acts against his interests.

Another interesting thought about the Reminiscence arc - I think that Miyuki's relation with Tatsuya is just another one of those deliberate artificial emotional manipulations that Miyuki inflicts on herself. Miyuki wears many masks, and the monologues come closest to who Miyuki is under all those mask, many of which she forces herself to "sincerely" believe.

The problematic relation with Tatsuya in early Reminiscence was not something she inflicted on herself, it was the conditioning she was given by outside sources (Miya and the rest of the Yotsuba). She struggled with it and eventually fully discarded it at the end of LN8. The only "emotional Manipulation" which she still harbors about him is "he's my brother by blood, I'm not romantically interested in him".

The way I see it, after Reminiscence, Miyuki saw Tatsuya not as a disposable shield, but a very, very dangerous flaming sword technically in her hands, but with a will of his own. For the sake of controlling that sword, Miyuki convinces her ownself to take on the earnest mask of the "devoted sister", and forces herself to believe in the truth of that mask, as Honami trained Miyuki to do.

And this is where I have to flatly disagree. Miyuki never saw Tatsuya as "dangerous" after LN8, she saw him as someone to be admired. Someone who should rather be in the place she is in, but who is shunned by the Yotsuba for disgusting reasons. She felt that should be the one following her onii-sama, not vice versa! She vowed to herself multiple times that she would be on her onii-sama's side unconditionally even against the Yotsuba, should this come to pass. And keep in mind: She vowed to become the key to _FREE_ Tatsuya. This is the exact opposite of what you describe, namely keeping something dangerous under control.

Setting this with Volume 14, I suspect Miyuki still doesn't fully realize that Tatsuya will sub-ordinate himself to Miyuki unconditionally, even without the play of siblinghood taken to warped extreme; that Miyuki thinks is the best way she can keep Tatsuya's loyalties, after a childhood of inadvertently treating Tatsuya as disposable wallpaper. Miyuki attributed her ability to rein Tatsuya back to her tears - I don't think she quite realized that it was the phrasing of her preference, into a near command (Onii-Sama's only concern is me... etc) that brought Tatsuya to heel. Not Miyuki's performance of the crying imouto.

Like I wrote above: For Miyuki, their order of "rank" should be reversed: Tatsuya as leading, and Miyuki to follow him. This is why even though she is fully aware that she could theoretically "order" him to do her bidding, she does NOT. This is also why she generally follows his decisions even if she happens to be unhappy with them.

This is no matter of worry "will he follow my orders if I give them", she simply feels that she has no standing to give orders to him in the first place. And the only one she actually vetoed Tatsuya in LN13 was not out of worry for her own safety, but for HIS. She merely reminded him that protecting her was his sole task not to make sure that nothing bad happened to _herself_, but to stop Tatsuya from jumping into a dangerous confrontation unnecessarily, while he was strained and overworked. It was for _his_ sake.

To sum up how I see it: Miyuki sees Tatsuya not as her equal, but as someone she looks up to. She does not fear him or try to "control" him, she only occasionally tries to influence him when she feels that he is about to do something foolish and dangerous. Instead, she tries to _free_ him from his chains.

[bietchie11]

Originally Posted by Mentar

You are aware that in the Reminiscence manga adaption up to chapter 8, Miyuki is still at "ani" and not "onii-sama", right? She is still struggling against the "Tatsuya is merely a tool for your protection" conditioning at this time. She is frustrated that she doesn't really understand him, but since she has a naturally kind disposition, she feels that how she is taught to treat him is _wrong_. But at the point in time in chapter 8, there is no real _trust_ between them yet.

At the end of LN8 and onward, the relationship between Miyuki and Tatsuya is incomparably different. By then, Miyuki's trust in Tatsuya's abilities and determination to protect her is near-absolute. I also feel that your description of Miyuki's worries at the begin of LN14 as "control" is a bit off. Miyuki doesn't seek to "control" Tatsuya. She seeks to protect him when he acts against his interests.



The problematic relation with Tatsuya in early Reminiscence was not something she inflicted on herself, it was the conditioning she was given by outside sources (Miya and the rest of the Yotsuba). She struggled with it and eventually fully discarded it at the end of LN8. The only "emotional Manipulation" which she still harbors about him is "he's my brother by blood, I'm not romantically interested in him".



And this is where I have to flatly disagree. Miyuki never saw Tatsuya as "dangerous" after LN8, she saw him as someone to be admired. Someone who should rather be in the place she is in, but who is shunned by the Yotsuba for disgusting reasons. She felt that should be the one following her onii-sama, not vice versa! She vowed to herself multiple times that she would be on her onii-sama's side unconditionally even against the Yotsuba, should this come to pass. And keep in mind: She vowed to become the key to _FREE_ Tatsuya. This is the exact opposite of what you describe, namely keeping something dangerous under control.



Like I wrote above: For Miyuki, their order of "rank" should be reversed: Tatsuya as leading, and Miyuki to follow him. This is why even though she is fully aware that she could theoretically "order" him to do her bidding, she does NOT. This is also why she generally follows his decisions even if she happens to be unhappy with them.

This is no matter of worry "will he follow my orders if I give them", she simply feels that she has no standing to give orders to him in the first place. And the only one she actually vetoed Tatsuya in LN13 was not out of worry for her own safety, but for HIS. She merely reminded him that protecting her was his sole task not to make sure that nothing bad happened to _herself_, but to stop Tatsuya from jumping into a dangerous confrontation unnecessarily, while he was strained and overworked. It was for _his_ sake.

To sum up how I see it: Miyuki sees Tatsuya not as her equal, but as someone she looks up to. She does not fear him or try to "control" him, she only occasionally tries to influence him when she feels that he is about to do something foolish and dangerous. Instead, she tries to _free_ him from his chains.

Well said, mentar.

[Armando99]

Very well done Mentar. Couldn't have argued most of those points any better myself. Well done and in good taste.

[yellowsnake]

She looks pretty happy here.

[bietchie11]

Originally Posted by yellowsnake

She looks pretty happy here.

Eh??!!
My ruthless queen can't be this adorable!!

[Echizen777]

Is it the scene where Tatsuya saved her? It means the arc is almost over then.

[IceHism]

I've been reading the reminiscence manga and i like the wide variety of expressions Honami and Miyuki have. Those two are so lively. Gave me all the feels that i got from reading vol 8 as well.

[fujin of shadows]

Originally Posted by yellowsnake

She looks pretty happy here.

SHE IS SO ADORABLE IN THAT PIC....

Spoiler for pic:

If I ever see Tatsuya having that face...I'll run and go underground, praying and hoping that He won't go after me



Death won't claim you!!!!!!!!



Hands of my sister, you fucking Death!!!!!!!!!!



The things you and I will do in the future won't G-rated



Didn't I tell you I would protect you...



Mine! All Mine!!!!!!!!!!



I could feel Onii-sama's...

[LKK]

The Yen Press novel tweet also included an announcement regarding the manga license in the comments as well. [Source]