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deltara · 2007-01-16, 13:06

Ace is beaten down by Blackbeard as Blacbeard swallows any type of atatck (for know).

We get to know that Ace and Luffy amount to 700 million berry

Hairydolphin · 2007-01-16, 14:36

Did Ace get completely beaten or is he just hurt?

CrumCon · 2007-01-16, 15:49

Ace got his ass whiped.

Freeter · 2007-01-16, 16:14

So if Luffy does take on Blackbeard, what kind of loophole will Oda create to grant him the victory? Indigestable rubber?

Sazelyt · 2007-01-16, 17:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freeter

So if Luffy does take on Blackbeard, what kind of loophole will Oda create to grant him the victory? Indigestable rubber?

If Blackbeard has indeed beat Ace, as the supposedly correct spoiler pictures tell us, then Blackbeard will not need to fight against Luffy to get approved by the World Government. I think, despite all the success Luffy has achieved, Ace might still be considered as a more important player than Luffy, at least for now.

Ace in that spoiler picture looks similar to unconscious/dead CP9 members. So, if it is correct, Ace lost in just one chapter, Blackbeard has really achieved a level that deserves serious consideration for what he really desires.

Lord Raiden · 2007-01-16, 19:04

What spoiler picture? And another thing. I have a feeling that while Luffy has indeed grown a lot, he's going to have to do at least 2-3 more arcs against some really seriously wicked badguys to even consider getting to a level that'll beat Blackbeard.

Biswa · 2007-01-16, 20:44

How are you guys sure that Luffy didn't surpass Ace in the last few arcs? I would think that Luffy stands somewhat of a chance against Blackbeard... but not enough to beat him. He probably still needs more training, of course. But I dont think it'll take THAT long... i wish >_<. This is me being hopeful, not realistic.

brandfireX · 2007-01-16, 22:23

logias are just naturaly more powerful so i think that ace could eat luffy and if the spoiles are right luffy cant even touch BB he will just eat away his limbs and lufy would get eaten so he needs to get stronger

chitgoks · 2007-01-17, 06:11

black beard may still go after luffy because currently it's luffy who is making headlines and bb feels the quickest way to go up with his plan is to beat luffy.

wonder when we'll see a light logia user he he he. that would make him a stalemate with bb just like ace and smoker

Slayerx · 2007-01-17, 15:11

Rather interesting, Blackbeard's power of darkness is very much related to that of a blackhole, the power of gravitational pull... in that sence a light devil fruit may not actually counter it in that a blackhole can suck up light aswell.

Quote:

So if Luffy does take on Blackbeard, what kind of loophole will Oda create to grant him the victory? Indigestable rubber?

not at all really... if i understand the script translation correctly, blackbeard's powers don't allow him to dodge attacks like other logias, he takes any damage that's thrown at him... in other words, luffy's punches will still have an effect on blackbeard, thus blackbeard can be knocked out... However, since blackbeard can nullify devil fruits, luffy's rubber body can not bounce back blackbeards attacks, and thus luffy will take damage from blackbeard as if he didn't have a rubber body. However, much of the power from luffy's attacks comes from his ability to stretch, and thus while held by blackbeard he would not be able to put up as much of a fight... As it would seem, blackbeard's powers don't make him as seemingly unbeatable as other logias, yet at the same time gives him a serious advantage all other devil fruits. the question on my mind is, how well does the fruit aid him in a fight against non-devil fruits

Intersting thing i can fore see about blackbeard vs luffy at this point though... i can see some serious damage luffy could take from the use of his gear attacks... as we learned in enies lobby, Luffy's rubber body is what allows him to use the gears and that if he didn't have a rubber body, the stress that he puts himself under would normally kill him... my point... If luffy was in gear 2 or 3 and then got his powers nullified by blackbeard, that could cause some SERIOUS internal damage, if not kill him... though this is just specualtion and i'm not really sure if that would be the case

ajay29 · 2007-01-17, 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slayerx

Rather interesting, Blackbeard's power of darkness is very much related to that of a blackhole, the power of gravitational pull... in that sence a light devil fruit may not actually counter it in that a blackhole can suck up light aswell.

not at all really... if i understand the script translation correctly, blackbeard's powers don't allow him to dodge attacks like other logias, he takes any damage that's thrown at him... in other words, luffy's punches will still have an effect on blackbeard, thus blackbeard can be knocked out... However, since blackbeard can nullify devil fruits, luffy's rubber body can not bounce back blackbeards attacks, and thus luffy will take damage from blackbeard as if he didn't have a rubber body. However, much of the power from luffy's attacks comes from his ability to stretch, and thus while held by blackbeard he would not be able to put up as much of a fight... As it would seem, blackbeard's powers don't make him as seemingly unbeatable as other logias, yet at the same time gives him a serious advantage all other devil fruits. the question on my mind is, how well does the fruit aid him in a fight against non-devil fruits

Intersting thing i can fore see about blackbeard vs luffy at this point though... i can see some serious damage luffy could take from the use of his gear attacks... as we learned in enies lobby, Luffy's rubber body is what allows him to use the gears and that if he didn't have a rubber body, the stress that he puts himself under would normally kill him... my point... If luffy was in gear 2 or 3 and then got his powers nullified by blackbeard, that could cause some SERIOUS internal damage, if not kill him... though this is just specualtion and i'm not really sure if that would be the case

really good point!
So, if BB's attacks nullify the effects of a devil fruit, what happens if Luffy stretches his arm to hit BB and the rubber effect is cancelled? Would Luffy end up with a 20 foot long "normal" arm coz his rubberism is gone?

Tha'd be frikkin' hilarious

Slayerx · 2007-01-17, 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajay29

really good point!
So, if BB's attacks nullify the effects of a devil fruit, what happens if Luffy stretches his arm to hit BB and the rubber effect is cancelled? Would Luffy end up with a 20 foot long "normal" arm coz his rubberism is gone?

Tha'd be frikkin' hilarious

well, Actually in that particular case, i think luffy would just immediatly snap back to normal the moment he hit blackbeard...
The reason i have concern for gear 2 and 3 is becuase there is stuff going on within luffy's body that is not really part of his devil fruit.

Gear 2 for instance, we have luffy's blood running through out his body at an extremly fast rate... In theory, if luffy were to loose his devil fruit powers while in gear 2 it could cause serious damage to him... blackbeard's powers would make luffy loose his rubber power, but wouldn't nessasarily stop Luffy's blood from moving at it's alarming rate... So Luffy's blood would still be moving very fast in his now normal body... and as we know, the kind of internal pressure can kill a normal human... Rubber is how luffy gets into gear 2, rubber is how luffy survives gear 2, but rubber has nothing to do with how luffy stays in gear two...

In the case of gear 3, the same can pretty much be said... Blackbeard's nullifying powers would turn luffy into a normal human, but it wouldn't remove the air that's currently inflating his bones... Luffy isn't just stretching his bones like he stretches his arms to perform attacks, he's actually putting something (air) inside of them, and that something has nothing to do with his rubber body... Though in this case, it could be that the moment his powers are nullified his body may still get back to normal and just force out all the air and thus there isn't much to be concerned about... however, the same can not be said about the fast moving blood while in gear2, so my concern there still stands somewhat...

ofcourse this is all in theory, and i'm not sure how Oda will play it all out... oda may just say that gear 2 is immedietly turned off without giving much explanation as to how the blood stopped moving so fast

-Breakthrough- · 2007-01-17, 19:14

Man, rather sad to see Ace get pwned, but I have to admit, BlackBeard's Pretty Strong.

DrFuko · 2007-01-17, 19:25

Actually, just to make it a point... Blackbeard's power is just not darkness. Its GRAVITY. Oh man, that has got to be the coolest power ever. Hell, he's even got an atack called Black Hole. Talk about such an awesome equalizer.

Oh, and from the looks of it, something even greater is about to happen too, as a result of this fight. I seriously can't imagine what this is gonna be.

/goes back to rambling about how much I wanted Gravity as a Devil Fruit.
//If Oda knows anything about M theory, he might even try to throw in something about screwing up multiple dimensions.
///Light is the other fruit I want to see.
////Woman is the other devil fruit. It would be fun to see some Ranma 1/2 meets Piscis Aphrodite kinda story.

Lord Raiden · 2007-01-17, 20:45

Ya know, I think that the best one to fight blackbeard would actually be Franky. He's neither DF user, nor human, technically speaking. For him to loose an arm would simply mean he's gotta replace a few parts. Just stop somewhere, talk to a blacksmith, and bingo, new apendage. Or he could even make them himself like he had before.

chitgoks · 2007-01-18, 02:35

i was about to comment about a recent post i made until i read your posts.

if bb's power is indeed gravity then that's something else. i thought it was only darkness because ace's fire is considered light and light and darkness are considered a stalemate. but if gravity's involved then it may suck up the light, true.. but still im pretty sure there's still something that light can counter and oda just didnt consider it , this to make bb a strong character.

marvelB · 2007-01-18, 11:34

Man... kickass chapter. Blackbeard's powers are awesome. The fact that he can disable DF powers by touching the user makes him like a human seastone... whoa. And I like how he can still be physically hurt by normal attacks, unlike other Logias (it really DOES make him unique!). But the most interesting thing of all is that line in the last panel about that fight triggering some great event that's about to happen. My guess is that it can only mean one thing: Whitebeard is FREAKIN' PISSED.

However, I think that the next chapter is going to focus back on Luffy and co., so I don't expect to see the outcome of this battle anytime soon....

Tommy · 2007-01-18, 17:27

Thing with blackbeard is he had to be insanely strong before he got his DF ability so even if he did fight someone like franky without using his ability he would still just own the shit out of him.
And whatever Aces' fate may be whether he died or not Luffy is gonna go crazy, along with White Beard of course.

marvelB · 2007-01-18, 23:05

Yeah, Blackbeard is definitely a tough one. Heck, it only took TWO punches from him to give Ace trouble. Plus, the fact that he was able to take all of Ace's attacks yet still be able to fight so well shows that he ain't no amateur, either. And not to mention the fact that he scarred Shanks years BEFORE he ate the fruit was proof already of his strength.....

And speaking of Shanks, this chapter made me notice how both him and Ace look oddly similar to each other... are they related, perhaps?

Hairydolphin · 2007-01-19, 00:04

I'm a little confused about BB's ability still. If he can't block the attacks, and is taking them head on, does that mean he plans on taking a giant sun like fireball from Ace head on? I assumed that he would be able to make darkness in an instant and suck in any type of attack from a logia but he didn't seem to do that against Ace's other attacks.

2007-01-16, 13:06	Link #1
deltara Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2006	[Manga] Chapter 441 Discussion Ace is beaten down by Blackbeard as Blacbeard swallows any type of atatck (for know). We get to know that Ace and Luffy amount to 700 million berry

2007-01-16, 16:14	Link #4
Freeter beyond Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: in the club	So if Luffy does take on Blackbeard, what kind of loophole will Oda create to grant him the victory? Indigestable rubber? __________________

2007-01-16, 14:36	Link #2
Hairydolphin Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004	Did Ace get completely beaten or is he just hurt?

2007-01-16, 15:49	Link #3
CrumCon Member Join Date: Sep 2006	Ace got his ass whiped.

2007-01-16, 19:04	Link #6
Lord Raiden Uber Coffee for da win! Join Date: May 2003 Location: Middle of insanity	What spoiler picture? And another thing. I have a feeling that while Luffy has indeed grown a lot, he's going to have to do at least 2-3 more arcs against some really seriously wicked badguys to even consider getting to a level that'll beat Blackbeard.

2007-01-16, 20:44	Link #7
Biswa Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004	How are you guys sure that Luffy didn't surpass Ace in the last few arcs? I would think that Luffy stands somewhat of a chance against Blackbeard... but not enough to beat him. He probably still needs more training, of course. But I dont think it'll take THAT long... i wish >_<. This is me being hopeful, not realistic.

2007-01-16, 22:23	Link #8
brandfireX Jedi Trainer of ONE PIECE Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: within Age: 33	logias are just naturaly more powerful so i think that ace could eat luffy and if the spoiles are right luffy cant even touch BB he will just eat away his limbs and lufy would get eaten so he needs to get stronger

2007-01-17, 06:11	Link #9
chitgoks Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006	black beard may still go after luffy because currently it's luffy who is making headlines and bb feels the quickest way to go up with his plan is to beat luffy. wonder when we'll see a light logia user he he he. that would make him a stalemate with bb just like ace and smoker

2007-01-17, 19:14	Link #13
-Breakthrough- ... Join Date: Aug 2006	Man, rather sad to see Ace get pwned, but I have to admit, BlackBeard's Pretty Strong.

2007-01-17, 19:25	Link #14
DrFuko Member Join Date: Mar 2006	Actually, just to make it a point... Blackbeard's power is just not darkness. Its GRAVITY. Oh man, that has got to be the coolest power ever. Hell, he's even got an atack called Black Hole. Talk about such an awesome equalizer. Oh, and from the looks of it, something even greater is about to happen too, as a result of this fight. I seriously can't imagine what this is gonna be. /goes back to rambling about how much I wanted Gravity as a Devil Fruit. //If Oda knows anything about M theory, he might even try to throw in something about screwing up multiple dimensions. ///Light is the other fruit I want to see. ////Woman is the other devil fruit. It would be fun to see some Ranma 1/2 meets Piscis Aphrodite kinda story.

2007-01-17, 20:45	Link #15
Lord Raiden Uber Coffee for da win! Join Date: May 2003 Location: Middle of insanity	Ya know, I think that the best one to fight blackbeard would actually be Franky. He's neither DF user, nor human, technically speaking. For him to loose an arm would simply mean he's gotta replace a few parts. Just stop somewhere, talk to a blacksmith, and bingo, new apendage. Or he could even make them himself like he had before.

2007-01-18, 02:35	Link #16
chitgoks Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006	i was about to comment about a recent post i made until i read your posts. if bb's power is indeed gravity then that's something else. i thought it was only darkness because ace's fire is considered light and light and darkness are considered a stalemate. but if gravity's involved then it may suck up the light, true.. but still im pretty sure there's still something that light can counter and oda just didnt consider it , this to make bb a strong character.

2007-01-18, 11:34	Link #17
marvelB Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005	Man... kickass chapter. Blackbeard's powers are awesome. The fact that he can disable DF powers by touching the user makes him like a human seastone... whoa. And I like how he can still be physically hurt by normal attacks, unlike other Logias (it really DOES make him unique!). But the most interesting thing of all is that line in the last panel about that fight triggering some great event that's about to happen. My guess is that it can only mean one thing: Whitebeard is FREAKIN' PISSED. However, I think that the next chapter is going to focus back on Luffy and co., so I don't expect to see the outcome of this battle anytime soon....

2007-01-18, 17:27	Link #18
Tommy Mr. Prince Join Date: May 2003 Location: Scottsdale, Arizona Age: 41	Thing with blackbeard is he had to be insanely strong before he got his DF ability so even if he did fight someone like franky without using his ability he would still just own the shit out of him. And whatever Aces' fate may be whether he died or not Luffy is gonna go crazy, along with White Beard of course.

2007-01-18, 23:05	Link #19
marvelB Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005	Yeah, Blackbeard is definitely a tough one. Heck, it only took TWO punches from him to give Ace trouble. Plus, the fact that he was able to take all of Ace's attacks yet still be able to fight so well shows that he ain't no amateur, either. And not to mention the fact that he scarred Shanks years BEFORE he ate the fruit was proof already of his strength..... And speaking of Shanks, this chapter made me notice how both him and Ace look oddly similar to each other... are they related, perhaps?

2007-01-19, 00:04	Link #20
Hairydolphin Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004	I'm a little confused about BB's ability still. If he can't block the attacks, and is taking them head on, does that mean he plans on taking a giant sun like fireball from Ace head on? I assumed that he would be able to make darkness in an instant and suck in any type of attack from a logia but he didn't seem to do that against Ace's other attacks.