Clannad ~After Story~ - Episode 16 Discussion / Poll

[Proto]

The thing is that we don't know what Nagisa or Tomoya's religious upbringing is like (if they have any at all).

They are Japanese. That is, a perfect mixture of theism and atheism. (Generally speaking. Yes, this is a disclaimer) they pray to everyone without believing in anything, so there.

[War_Lord]

Her disease never proved ultimately fatal. Until now.

Then what was all the worrying and warning signs from the doctors about? The disease itself made her body relatively weak. Its a no brainer that giving childbirth would be extremely fatal in that regard.

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

And please, please, stop using the term "retard". It's VERY offensive.

She was a retard and I'll say it as many times as necessary.

As I said earlier, religion and cultural beliefs can also play a big part in this matter. The thing is that we don't know what Nagisa or Tomoya's religious upbringing is like (if they have any at all). I mention this because to some religions "abortion" is never an option. It is not even considered. There are other things that culture and religion could influence heavily in their situation, but we can't really know because we don't know those sorts of details (to my knowledge at least).

Fair enough, but that goes back to my pride assumption.

[Ithekro]

She was a retard and I'll say it as many times as necessary.

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

[C.A.]

Originally Posted by War_Lord

Then what was all the worrying and warning signs from the doctors about? The disease itself made her body relatively weak. Its a no brainer that giving childbirth would be extremely fatal in that regard.

She was a retard and I'll say it as many times as necessary.

Fair enough, but that goes back to my pride assumption.

Do you know that you sound really retarded? Oh wait, you don't, that's why you keep going on.

You're a retard and I'll say it as many times as necessary.

I'm sure you're anaffected by my remarks, because the word 'retarded' don't seem to be that offensive.

And you're convincing none of us here with any of your assumptions and arguments.

[Proto]

Fair enough, but that goes back to my pride assumption.

o_o Did you slept through your sociology and History of human culture classes during high school? Heck, antrophology, psychology, almost any science dealing with human or animal behavior will tell you that the protection of one's offspring by the mother is so deeply ingrained in our self that it requires an 'overhuman' effort to go against it. It has nothing to do with pride.

[War_Lord]

o_o Did you slept through your sociology and History of human culture classes during high school? Heck, antrophology, psychology, almost any science dealing with human or animal behavior will tell you that the protection of one's offspring by the mother is so deeply ingrained in our self that it requires an 'overhuman' effort to go against it. It has nothing to do with pride.

Oh god, not that instincts bull crap. Whatever, I'll consider that a possibility even though I doubt it. Its more likely to be the case with the lower food chains, not humans whom have rationality.

Originally Posted by Ithekro

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

I know what you're getting at. Out of courtesy for all the people who can't help their mental conditions, I apologize for comparing you to the likes of Nagisa.

Do you know that you sound really retarded? Oh wait, you don't, that's why you keep going on.

You're a retard and I'll say it as many times as necessary.

I'm sure you're anaffected by my remarks, because the word 'retarded' don't seem to be that offensive.

And you're convincing none of us here with any of your assumptions and arguments.

You haven't convinced me of anything. Thanks for insulting me for insulting an anime character.

[Ithekro]

So. Many. Uses.

[C.A.]

Originally Posted by War_Lord

I know what you're getting at. Out of courtesy for all the people who can't help their mental conditions, I apologize for comparing you to the likes of Nagisa.

You haven't convinced me of anything. Thanks for insulting me for insulting an anime character.

Oh no I didn't insult you because you insulted anyone. I insulted you because you really are retarded.

And glad to know that you actually know that I'm not convincing, like you don't convince anyone of us here.

[panzerfan]

War_Lord has every right to use the word retarded as see fit, although there are times when the already limited freedom of speech has to give way to something more intrinsic as say self-preservation, or maybe to escape accusation of bigotry.

By the way, please refrain from targeting individuals here. Discussion of the story is fair game and play within that boundary is the civil thing to do.

[War_Lord]

Originally Posted by C.A.

Oh no I didn't insult you because you insulted anyone. I insulted you because you really are retarded.

And glad to know that you actually know that I'm not convincing, like you don't convince anyone of us here.

I'm not trying to convince, I'm merely defending my opinion that Nagisa is...er was a reckless moron.

[C.A.]

Originally Posted by War_Lord

I'm not trying to convince, I'm merely defending my opinion that Nagisa is...er was a reckless moron.

You can't defend your opinion if no one is going to agree with you.

And throwing out insults won't help at all as you may just have realised.

[Gundampilotspaz]

This isn't an issue anymore if it was the right or wrong thing decision to have the baby. Accidents happen, and the child was born at the absolute worst possible time. (thank you KEY) Nagisa was going to have the baby under any circumstances and the Doctors were pretty sure that if she was in a hospital they'd be able to take care of any problems that might happen.

I'm sure that what she has isn't a common disease like HIV or a type of cancer, since that would have been diagnosed by now and treated. They don't know what was wrong with her. But she has been treated by doctors since she was a small child and they probably know enough about her condition to make an assessment if the birth would do her harm. They did. They told her the risks and told her she cannot have a home birth... it might kill her... and they were right. She is NOT to blame. Tomoya, Nagisa, and Nagisa's parents all did everything they could to make sure the baby was born safely. Then they got screwed over by fate.

[War_Lord]

Originally Posted by C.A.

You can't defend your opinion if no one is going to agree with you.

Sure I can, I'm doing it now.

[panzerfan]

On a further word to War_Lord and others, it should not be surprising that criticizing the dead or those that can no longer defend their position in terms of personal integrity is much scorned, whether if the dead is fictionalized or a 'former' existence.

Maybe this has something to do with how that nobody would want to see themselves being questioned without any mean of mounting a rebuttal (being gone kind of does that to you). Whatever it is, if there's no direct conflict of self-interests, at least put yourself in the shoes of those you accuse before you word your comments.

In another word, chill out and stop drinking cool-aid.

[War_Lord]

Originally Posted by panzerfan

On a further word to War_Lord and others, it should not be surprising that criticizing the dead or those that can no longer defend their position in terms of personal integrity is much scorned, whether if the dead is fictionalized or a 'former' existence.

Maybe this has something to do with how that nobody would want to see themselves being questioned without any mean of mounting a rebuttal (being gone kind of does that to you). Whatever it is, if there's no direct conflict of self-interests, at least put yourself in the shoes of those you accuse before you word your comments.

I'm visioning myself in her shoes and getting an abortion lol....

[Sheba]

Can't you guys keep a bit of respect for the dead even fictional, please? For fck sake, it is not even a Darwin Award worthy kind of death, it's the kind of shit that happens once in a while in any corner of the world; as much I am a supporter of abortion, I still think that IF the mother want the kid, we must let her!

On a metafiction note, it suck for Nagisa to roll a fumble on her Stamina roll, and to be in a scenario written by Key.

[Gundampilotspaz]

Originally Posted by War_Lord

I'm visioning myself in her shoes and getting an abortion lol....

Even if the doctors told you that there would be no trouble if you had the baby in a hospital? That seems a bit irrational.

[War_Lord]

Originally Posted by Gundampilotspaz

Even if the doctors told you that there would be no trouble if you had the baby in a hospital? That seems a bit irrational.

Irrational my ass. If my body is weak to the point where I'd miss my senior year of highschool two times in a row, then I'm sure as hell not even gonna try to have a baby.

I'd settle for adoption thanks...

[Sheba]

Dude, she WANTED to have her baby! What's so hard to accept about it?

[Starra]

Because obviously, you know what it feels like being pregnant.