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NyxOne · 2008-12-12, 18:58

Brillo, more useless characters, then.

Thewanderer · 2008-12-12, 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by NyxOne

As far as I recall, the only drama with the Espada was with Nel being an ex, Ulq being no. 4, and possily Nnoi being Nel's 'sealer'.

And...I'd pass on seeing all the nameless royal guard fighting against Arrancar, thanks.

Kaien.

Also, the former squad12 Capt is in the royal guard, right?

NyxOne · 2008-12-12, 19:21

Oh, right. That.

100 odd years ago, yes. Things might have changed.

Salamandra · 2008-12-12, 20:55

Also the announcement that she went to the royal guard was very close to Urahara telling Hiyori that whenever a captain retires or something, they actually get put in prison. Maybe she didn't get put in the royal guard at all... maybe the royal guard doesn't really exist. The king's key is merely a metaphor! Aizen has been fooled all along.

Or something.

Phenomenal · 2008-12-12, 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by viperx116

It needs to be quality content. If Bleach keeps going like this, it should just be cancelled and give room for something better.

Bwhahwhahwhahwha

Yeah, Shonen Jump is gonna cancel one of it's heavy weights, something that's bringing in the ca$h money.

Yama showing alone owns your souls.

NyxOne · 2008-12-12, 20:59

We already knew that Yamajii was powerful. And if this was all that him waiting around like a senile geezer amounted to, him facing a randomly batshit-insane Allon, then...he sucks. Hard.

And, hey, One Piece and Naruto can always fill the gap.

lequory · 2008-12-12, 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tempest35

And yet people continue to read it...

And three pages isn't enough to kill Albion - if he did, people would be crying about it just like they did when Captain Fox bankai'ed Po.

When one kills a cockroach, one doesn't use their full power - hell it's a cockroach. You can tell a kid to kill a cockroach and depending on how old the kid is, either they'll do it, or they'll run away. To show the kid who's boss, you decide to take on the evil roach yourself - do you have to? Not really. Can the lil kid do it - sure, but they don't know that and it will take too long to convince them otherwise. Even after one hits it hard enough, chances are, it's still twitching and trying to move around, right? Now whether you keep on hitting it until it stops moving or just let it to die in its own time - that's up to you.
Talking to the cockroach is also optional as well.

PS: I only said this to illustrate a point for Yama-jii.

'
Great analogy. I have now changed my mind on saying that Yama was a waste of time to step in. I hope everyone else will stop griping about his appearance. LMAO I know they won't but it sounds good saying it.

On another not are we saying that the royal guard are worthless????? We have no clue who they are, except for one of them, and we have no clue of to the extent of their power levels or zanpakuto's. We know nothing so how can they be nothing?

Black-Cat-Sama · 2008-12-12, 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

Actually, Tousen was the first one to agree to release his bankai. Komamura refused to use it...until he saw Kenpachi lay the smackdown on Tousen that is.

Yeah, the result is fairly predictable. But lequory has a point that at least Ulq vs. Ichigo will be a milestone fight. Ulq is an enemy that has had good build up. A good part of the reason the recent battles have been mediocre is because the enemies are killed off as soon as they are introduced. Decent designs, but with no story or personality, the enemies seem (and mostly are) disposable. Nobody's interested in seeing what happens to them.

Good battles need the reader to feel some emotion towards the protagonists and the antagonists. The shinigami have been well developed for the most part, but the arrancar (except for some of the Espada) just aren't very interesting.

'Tis sig-worthy.

I was trying to point out the fact that tousen fucked around and paid for it, so Koma was ready to go straight into action w/o playing around....

Yes Ichigo vs. Ulq. is a well set up decent enough fight but still, the fatc that Ulquiorra has been built up as such a great character.. will make the fight a disappointment to me. It isn't like BYakuya,, who I personally wanted to lose the fight so it was all good in SS...so yeah. and Arrancar (FRACCION included) are supposed to be bad-ass and well developed... Kubo just insists on showing the other charaters are strong by using them as scapegoats etc for his fights

NyxOne · 2008-12-12, 21:26

It isn't implied that they're worthless, leguory, it's implied that they're, really, a what-the-hell-to-do-with-them factor. For all we know, they could suffer the fate of several of the Fraccion.

Slayerx · 2008-12-12, 22:17

The one thing that kinda urks me about the ichigo vs Ulq fight is not that we get the predicable ichigo power up of friendship to plot kai Ulq... but that their doesn't seem to be a point to it...

i mean, we are all talking about plot development, but the thing is, Ichigo vs Ulq wouldn't have much plot development; aside from ichigo pushing himself one more step up, which is still below Aizen and the top 3 espada (he'll need to either be pushed yet another step up or go for more training)

Aizen says he has no use for Orihime, this gives Ulq no reason to keep her alive but it also gives him no reason to kill her... he says that the only reason he holds on to orihime is so he can kill ichigo who he sees as a threat to las noches... the thing is though, Ichigo no longer has a reason to be a threat to HM either. He didn't come to fight a war, he came there to get orihime, once he gets her he goes home... in a sense, it sounds like ulq and ichigo are really just fighting for the sake of fighting and nothing more; logically ulq should just be able to hand over orihime and let them leave as las noches will no longer be in any danger

before there was a point... Aizen had plans for Orihime and thus was gonna keep her; she NEEDED to be rescued... but now, she's not really in danger as she is not of any use to Aizen... friends not really in danger, no reason to really fight

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tempest35

And three pages isn't enough to kill Albion - if he did, people would be crying about it just like they did when Captain Fox bankai'ed Po.

When one kills a cockroach, one doesn't use their full power - hell it's a cockroach.

no they don't, but what they also don't do is let it walk over them to point out how helpless it is and then trying to lecture it on how foolish and childish a creature is... they just squish it one good stomp and don't give it a second thought

when a person see's a bug, they regard it as a bug, they don't take time to ponder how foolish it is

Quote:

Originally Posted by NyxOne

It isn't implied that they're worthless, leguory, it's implied that they're, really, a what-the-hell-to-do-with-them factor. For all we know, they could suffer the fate of several of the Fraccion.

Or they could be the second coming of the gotei 13, replacing them as the badasses representing SS to fight against Aizen's new forces... making a number of the captains look like VC's in comparison... at this point, they could fall anywhere on the badass and cannon fodder spectrum... though it sounds like they are more likely to be badass if they truly are all former captains

NyxOne · 2008-12-12, 22:20

Half or more than half the Vaizards were former captains. The most we've seen out of any of them presently is Shinji kicking around Grimmjow. People who were former captains haven't really been impressive so far.

Crusader · 2008-12-12, 22:51

I kind of had the feeling that these royal gaurds would be a stronger Gotei 13, will start out as enemies then become allies maybe. Also how often do these factions keep in touch with each other?

Kayin · 2008-12-13, 00:28

The better plot twist would be to have Orihime save Ichigo using some new power (maybe one using ALL her flowers at once?). This power would also have the potential to get the King's Key, which Aizen has been waiting for. Orihime's name (meaning princess) and her god-like powers are going to serve a major role in the outcome of this battle - there's just too many hints and signs for Aizen to only use her as a lure to get some Captains stuck in HM. Aizen commenting on her powers being godly is a clue in itself. And that fact that her name means princess...I mean...you can't get any more obvious. Good writers care about the little details or subtle secrets and implant them throughout the plot so you can go back and say, "oh, so THAT'S what that meant!".

If not, then Tite Kubo is putting in a lot of symbolism and foreshadowing that are completely meaningless. But when it's this obvious, I don't even think a bad writer could do that.

Hav0kkx · 2008-12-13, 11:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kayin

The better plot twist would be to have Orihime save Ichigo using some new power (maybe one using ALL her flowers at once?). This power would also have the potential to get the King's Key, which Aizen has been waiting for. Orihime's name (meaning princess) and her god-like powers are going to serve a major role in the outcome of this battle - there's just too many hints and signs for Aizen to only use her as a lure to get some Captains stuck in HM. Aizen commenting on her powers being godly is a clue in itself. And that fact that her name means princess...I mean...you can't get any more obvious. Good writers care about the little details or subtle secrets and implant them throughout the plot so you can go back and say, "oh, so THAT'S what that meant!".

Just because her name means princess doesn't mean her character's plot has to be revolved around it. Ichigo's name means Strawberry. Hell if that's relevant.

I would like to see Orihime destroy the Hougyouku. That would make me love her up-until-that-moment-pointless character.

lequory · 2008-12-13, 11:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by NyxOne

Half or more than half the Vaizards were former captains. The most we've seen out of any of them presently is Shinji kicking around Grimmjow. People who were former captains haven't really been impressive so far.

Are you saying that Shinji was unimpressive in his fight with Grimmy. Please do elaborate?

NyxOne · 2008-12-13, 11:36

I never said that Shinji wasn't impressive...I said the others were unimpressive. We've quite literally seen absolutely nothing out of the rest of the Vaizard except a few little traits- Hachi can do binding spells (top-tier, admittedly) without incantations and make barriers, and he also apparently has what Orihime has though less powerful, Kensei...well, his zanpakuto wasn't all that much, and we also learned that Hiyori also had a mask...and that was moments before she nearly got killed. As for the rest, we've seen nothing out of 'em.

lequory · 2008-12-13, 11:44

ok its one thing to see someone's fighting skills and call them unimpressive but to not see them fight and call them unimpressive just doesn't add up. Im' trying to get to the root of the whole "Their Unimpressive To Me" concept that you're saying. We've yet to see anything from them. How on gods green earth are they unimpressive?

NyxOne · 2008-12-13, 11:48

Well, you know, the Pendulum arc and the affair with Hichigo could have shown off more of their skills. Shinji and Hachi, okay, they're decent, but...well, Kensei had his zanpakuto, all we saw of Lisa was her being scarred, Hiyori nearly got herself killed, and Love, Rose and Mashiro have essentially done nothing.

I do admit, though, that 'unimpressed' was the wrong word for me to use to describe my feelings about them. I'd rather say 'ambivalent' or 'doubtful'.

Tempest35 · 2008-12-13, 11:53

Hnn, judging by his earlier statements, I think 'unimpressive' also means that they haven't DONE anything 'impressive' as well...

And Orihime touching the Hougyoku would be a BAD thing...Not exactly sure how or why yet, but that's a gut feeling.

cheese no koma · 2008-12-13, 15:35

the problem here is kubo building up the plot so fast that it makes soul society arc looked like a slowpoke. If he can do what he did with SS arc, for example maybe have several "ingredients" Aizen will need to create the royal key scatter around different place, then maybe have Aizen send out different espada squad to retrieve them, leading to minor skirmishes, we will probably have an extra arc by then, but at least its better than having an anti-climatic orgasm. This way the history of each of the espada can be better explored.

The way it is going right now, its just gonna be fights after fights being crammed, Kubo needs to review SS arc, and learn how to build up events SYSTEMATICALLY again.

2008-12-12, 20:55	Link #84
Salamandra Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007	Also the announcement that she went to the royal guard was very close to Urahara telling Hiyori that whenever a captain retires or something, they actually get put in prison. Maybe she didn't get put in the royal guard at all... maybe the royal guard doesn't really exist. The king's key is merely a metaphor! Aizen has been fooled all along. Or something. __________________

2008-12-12, 22:51	Link #92
Crusader Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: North Texas	I kind of had the feeling that these royal gaurds would be a stronger Gotei 13, will start out as enemies then become allies maybe. Also how often do these factions keep in touch with each other? __________________ The times may change, but human nature never will.

2008-12-13, 00:28	Link #93
Kayin s c a r l e t Graphic Designer Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: South FL Age: 42	The better plot twist would be to have Orihime save Ichigo using some new power (maybe one using ALL her flowers at once?). This power would also have the potential to get the King's Key, which Aizen has been waiting for. Orihime's name (meaning princess) and her god-like powers are going to serve a major role in the outcome of this battle - there's just too many hints and signs for Aizen to only use her as a lure to get some Captains stuck in HM. Aizen commenting on her powers being godly is a clue in itself. And that fact that her name means princess...I mean...you can't get any more obvious. Good writers care about the little details or subtle secrets and implant them throughout the plot so you can go back and say, "oh, so THAT'S what that meant!". If not, then Tite Kubo is putting in a lot of symbolism and foreshadowing that are completely meaningless. But when it's this obvious, I don't even think a bad writer could do that. __________________

2008-12-13, 11:53	Link #99
Tempest35 Awe of She Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Orlando	Hnn, judging by his earlier statements, I think 'unimpressive' also means that they haven't DONE anything 'impressive' as well... And Orihime touching the Hougyoku would be a BAD thing...Not exactly sure how or why yet, but that's a gut feeling. __________________ "Focus entirely on me, you ordinary soldier."

2008-12-12, 18:58	Link #81
NyxOne Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008	Brillo, more useless characters, then.

2008-12-12, 19:21	Link #83
NyxOne Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008	Oh, right. That. 100 odd years ago, yes. Things might have changed.

2008-12-12, 20:59	Link #86
NyxOne Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008	We already knew that Yamajii was powerful. And if this was all that him waiting around like a senile geezer amounted to, him facing a randomly batshit-insane Allon, then...he sucks. Hard. And, hey, One Piece and Naruto can always fill the gap.

2008-12-12, 21:26	Link #89
NyxOne Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008	It isn't implied that they're worthless, leguory, it's implied that they're, really, a what-the-hell-to-do-with-them factor. For all we know, they could suffer the fate of several of the Fraccion.

2008-12-12, 22:20	Link #91
NyxOne Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008	Half or more than half the Vaizards were former captains. The most we've seen out of any of them presently is Shinji kicking around Grimmjow. People who were former captains haven't really been impressive so far.

2008-12-13, 11:36	Link #96
NyxOne Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008	I never said that Shinji wasn't impressive...I said the others were unimpressive. We've quite literally seen absolutely nothing out of the rest of the Vaizard except a few little traits- Hachi can do binding spells (top-tier, admittedly) without incantations and make barriers, and he also apparently has what Orihime has though less powerful, Kensei...well, his zanpakuto wasn't all that much, and we also learned that Hiyori also had a mask...and that was moments before she nearly got killed. As for the rest, we've seen nothing out of 'em.

2008-12-13, 11:44	Link #97
lequory People hate good theories Join Date: Sep 2007	ok its one thing to see someone's fighting skills and call them unimpressive but to not see them fight and call them unimpressive just doesn't add up. Im' trying to get to the root of the whole "Their Unimpressive To Me" concept that you're saying. We've yet to see anything from them. How on gods green earth are they unimpressive?

2008-12-13, 11:48	Link #98
NyxOne Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008	Well, you know, the Pendulum arc and the affair with Hichigo could have shown off more of their skills. Shinji and Hachi, okay, they're decent, but...well, Kensei had his zanpakuto, all we saw of Lisa was her being scarred, Hiyori nearly got herself killed, and Love, Rose and Mashiro have essentially done nothing. I do admit, though, that 'unimpressed' was the wrong word for me to use to describe my feelings about them. I'd rather say 'ambivalent' or 'doubtful'.

2008-12-13, 15:35	Link #100
cheese no koma kita kita oyaji Join Date: Jan 2006	the problem here is kubo building up the plot so fast that it makes soul society arc looked like a slowpoke. If he can do what he did with SS arc, for example maybe have several "ingredients" Aizen will need to create the royal key scatter around different place, then maybe have Aizen send out different espada squad to retrieve them, leading to minor skirmishes, we will probably have an extra arc by then, but at least its better than having an anti-climatic orgasm. This way the history of each of the espada can be better explored. The way it is going right now, its just gonna be fights after fights being crammed, Kubo needs to review SS arc, and learn how to build up events SYSTEMATICALLY again.