[MANGA] what went wrong in bleach?

[secretzfan]

Originally Posted by SweetPrincess

I know that kiddie Thats why I said what would be the piont of Aizen doing itself (Aizens an it) XD
{Edit}
A piont I was trying to get threw was would you start a rebellion if you knew the person was stronger?
Yes if they knew Aizen was going to betray them they would just walk out not start a fight becuz they would know the outcome they die and thats all there is to it (Or maybe they don't care) But Aizen can always use his Kyōka Suigetsu to control them.... He did that to the second espada (I am positive)
he also only neeed Grim and ully to test Echigo's strength not the whole espada herd....
Oh and when did he betray them? Aizen killed halibel becuz she was usless but thats after the rest died
He was using them, but I never knew he was planning to betray them and yes there is a difference between being used and being betrayed

Yea but some don't care if they were to find out Aizen was just using them some would walk out, but those like Barrragn, Tia, Nnoritra and Grimmjow would rebel. You already saw what tia did. she tried to rebel against too. They don't care if Aizen's stronger. It is those like Starrk, Zommari, Syzael. Aeroniro, Yammy who would just leave. maybe ulquirra but I am not sure about him he'd be in shock maybe. as for Kyoka Sugitsu that would proably stop there rebellion, but it wouldn't cahnge the fact that they were planning too.
And again it is not about test ichigo's strength. Aizen said in his speech that all hsi fight up till now were part of his plan to make Ichigo stronger

[EnchantingPrincess]

Originally Posted by secretzfan

Yea but some don't care if they were to find out Aizen was just using them some would walk out, but those like Barrragn, Tia, Nnoritra and Grimmjow would rebel. You already saw what tia did. she tried to rebel against too. They don't care if Aizen's stronger. It is those like Starrk, Zommari, Syzael. Aeroniro, Yammy who would just leave. maybe ulquirra but I am not sure about him he'd be in shock maybe. as for Kyoka Sugitsu that would proably stop there rebellion, but it wouldn't cahnge the fact that they were planning too.
And again it is not about test ichigo's strength. Aizen said in his speech that all hsi fight up till now were part of his plan to make Ichigo stronger

*Sigh*
I really don't want to keep on with this but remember Grimmy begged for forgiveness hehe On his knees too! So Aizen would just make the dog listen to his master again!!! Hehe (just a joke don't take it serious, which you may have been this whole time...XD) What I was trying to say is Aizen wins no matter what, except maybe with Echigo XD
Also Espada #3 wasn't "rebelling" he attacked her first so she attacked him naturally, What would you do? Let him attack you? There's a difference see?
Look kiddie I am not trying to be mean but you told me he was testing Echigo's strength now its to improve his power sorry if I sound cruel....
You never answered my Q, where was the betrayal, when was he planning to betray them? He was using them but I don't remember any betrayal.... theres a difference between being used and being betrayed
Please answer my Q this time

[secretzfan]

Originally Posted by SweetPrincess

*Sigh*
I really don't want to keep on with this but remember Grimmy begged for forgiveness hehe On his knees too! So Aizen would just make the dog listen to his master again!!! Hehe (just a joke don't take it serious, which you may have been this whole time...XD) What I was trying to say is Aizen wins no matter what, except maybe with Echigo XD
Also Espada #3 wasn't "rebelling" he attacked her first so she attacked him naturally, What would you do? Let him attack you? There's a difference see?
Look kiddie I am not trying to be mean but you told me he was testing Echigo's strength now its to improve his power sorry if I sound cruel....
You never answered my Q, where was the betrayal, when was he planning to betray them? He was using them but I don't remember any betrayal.... theres a difference between being used and being betrayed
Please answer my Q this time

Well I didn't see the difference till you had to started it. The difference between used and betrayed. Any way I mostly making an prediction to what I believe and based it on what Tia did by attacking Aizen and all the other Espada like Barragan. It was a prediction of what might happen if the Espada found out the truth.
As for the testing Ichigo part being changed to pushing Ichigo um why do you belive Aizen created the Espada in the first place?

[JustRob]

Honestly, do you think the Espada didn't know Aizen was using them? They knew, but Aizen's power was out of the world so there was little they could do. Even Barragan, king of Hollows was no match for him. Grimmjow showed some attitude and was forced on his knees merely by his reiatsu. Luppi questioned Aizen, prompting Aizen to make Orihime heal Grimmjow, knowing that Grimmjow would kill Luppi.

Halibel is the only one who looked really surprised that Aizen cut her down. Stark made a comment about nobody saying anything about Barragan's death, but he didn't seem at all surprised.

Barragan desired Aizen's death more then anyone, but could not even raise a finger against him.

Ulquiorra is probably one of the most loyal ones, I don't know why. We never learn any backstory about Ulquiorra or about his motives so this one is pretty much in the dark.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by JustRob

Ulquiorra is probably one of the most loyal ones, I don't know why. We never learn any backstory about Ulquiorra or about his motives so this one is pretty much in the dark.

It's not loyalty, it's rationality. Ulquiorra knew that disobeying Aizen would get him killed so he obeyed. Totally in line, but we still don't know why he was so rational and unemotional.

[EnchantingPrincess]

Originally Posted by secretzfan

Well I didn't see the difference till you had to started it. The difference between used and betrayed. Any way I mostly making an prediction to what I believe and based it on what Tia did by attacking Aizen and all the other Espada like Barragan. It was a prediction of what might happen if the Espada found out the truth.
As for the testing Ichigo part being changed to pushing Ichigo um why do you belive Aizen created the Espada in the first place?

Uh..... yeah but that really doesn't explain when he was "Planning" (Or how) to betray them like you said. There was no "plan" , he used them, he left them to thier fate with the battle between the captains/vizards, he killed halilbel because she was completley useless to him, thats it.... So there is no "plan"for betrayal

Originally Posted by JustRob

Honestly, do you think the Espada didn't know Aizen was using them? They knew, but Aizen's power was out of the world so there was little they could do. Even Barragan, king of Hollows was no match for him. Grimmjow showed some attitude and was forced on his knees merely by his reiatsu. Luppi questioned Aizen, prompting Aizen to make Orihime heal Grimmjow, knowing that Grimmjow would kill Luppi.

Halibel is the only one who looked really surprised that Aizen cut her down. Stark made a comment about nobody saying anything about Barragan's death, but he didn't seem at all surprised.

Barragan desired Aizen's death more then anyone, but could not even raise a finger against him.

Ulquiorra is probably one of the most loyal ones, I don't know why. We never learn any backstory about Ulquiorra or about his motives so this one is pretty much in the dark.

That was similar to what I was trying to say, they wouldn't defy him because there was little they could do.... Except I think you made it much clearer then me...

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Haak

It's not loyalty, it's rationality. Ulquiorra knew that disobeying Aizen would get him killed so he obeyed. Totally in line, but we still don't know why he was so rational and unemotional.

For most of the Espada it was probably a mixture of gratitude, respect and fear. Iceringer mentioned that hollows follow Aizen because they perceive him as absolutely fearless, so Aizen probably does get large amount of genuine respect , but he also keeps followers in check with his power.

We know Stark was grateful because Aizen provided him with the companionship he desired. Ulq and Halibel's reasons are unclear, but they were both very loyal and respectful. Neither seemed like they were easily intimidated. No doubt they realized how strong Aizen is, but I don't see them serving someone they didn't respect. Noitora mentioned he felt indebted to Aizen for giving him the opportunity to become stronger and I think GJ's attitude is similar although his bloodlust sometimes puts him at odds with Aizen. Zommari saw Aizen as a savior for hollows. Syzael probably admired Aizen's logical mind and was probably offered all kinds of interesting shinigami research. Aaronerio mentioned some kind of "pain" which Aizen promised to relieve as he was dying.

And Yammi...well, Yammi probably joined so he could smash up things.

Barragan seems to be the only Espada who served simply because he didn't believe that he could match Aizen, which is odd considering how powerful he is. It's definitely possible he was a coward at heart.

Originally Posted by SweetPrincess

Uh..... yeah but that really doesn't explain when he was "Planning" (Or how) to betray them like you said. There was no "plan" , he used them, he left them to thier fate with the battle between the captains/vizards, he killed halilbel because she was completley useless to him, thats it.... So there is no "plan"for betrayal

I think so too. Aizen wasn't really planning on betraying them but since he doesn't rely anyone (as he mentions himself) he was fully prepared that all of them might fail. Though he did seem to count on GJ and Ulq losing so that Ichigo would continue getting stronger. In any case, he considered all the Espada expendable from the beginning.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

Barragan seems to be the only Espada who served simply because he didn't believe that he could match Aizen, which is odd considering how powerful he is. It's definitely possible he was a coward at heart.

Maybe he was the top dog for so long he forgot what it was like for someone else to be stronger than him. So when it finally happened, he pissed his pants.

Well, all this is Wild Mass Guessing for another underdeveloped plot point.

[JustRob]

I think the same is basically happening to Aizen now. He's been invincible for so long, nobody could top him, or even get near him. People were intimidated by his mere presence. And now Ichigo shows up and turns out to be stronger (maybe?) then him. It's natural that they would feel fear. Perhaps cowardice.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Haak

Maybe he was the top dog for so long he forgot what it was like for someone else to be stronger than him. So when it finally happened, he pissed his pants.

Well, all this is Wild Mass Guessing for another underdeveloped plot point.

Yeah, mostly speculation.

Originally Posted by JustRob

I think the same is basically happening to Aizen now. He's been invincible for so long, nobody could top him, or even get near him. People were intimidated by his mere presence. And now Ichigo shows up and turns out to be stronger (maybe?) then him. It's natural that they would feel fear. Perhaps cowardice.

I think Aizen's situation is a little different...he's never thought himself completely invincible. He's acknowledged Yamamoto as being more than a match for him powerwise and he also believed that Gin was capable of killing him. It's just that he was prepared for all that and planned for it. Ichigo's power-up being this much greater than his own evolution is something he never prepared for or even thought possible.

But yeah, at this point Aizen not (at least for the moment) being crazy prepared is a welcome sight.

[secretzfan]

Originally Posted by SweetPrincess

Uh..... yeah but that really doesn't explain when he was "Planning" (Or how) to betray them like you said. There was no "plan" , he used them, he left them to thier fate with the battle between the captains/vizards, he killed halilbel because she was completley useless to him, thats it.... So there is no "plan"for betrayal

Actually isn't both betrayel and being used because towards the Espada it is a betrayal. The Espda feel betrayed betrayed by Aizen because they trusted him, but in Aizen's eyes he was just tools he was using. And what Tia did was kinda a rebel. Listen when a person attacks and you know he is stronger you wouldn't attack back you'd just accept it if there stronger, but if there not then it just be a attack back. And that only depend if you want to fight which you'd wouldn't if you knew that person was stronger, but she did to spike her own rebellion same for Barragan and Grimmjow

[dragonmeister]

Originally Posted by JustRob

Halibel is the only one who looked really surprised that Aizen cut her down. Stark made a comment about nobody saying anything about Barragan's death, but he didn't seem at all surprised.

Ahh, a good example of "the betrayal you see is one thing, what is truly dreadful is the betrayal you can't" (classic Aizen quote there)

[Tomoya Okazaki]

i think it bakura i mean like their almost copying vamp knight

[EnchantingPrincess]

Originally Posted by secretzfan

Actually isn't both betrayel and being used because towards the Espada it is a betrayal. The Espda feel betrayed betrayed by Aizen because they trusted him, but in Aizen's eyes he was just tools he was using. And what Tia did was kinda a rebel. Listen when a person attacks and you know he is stronger you wouldn't attack back you'd just accept it if there stronger, but if there not then it just be a attack back. And that only depend if you want to fight which you'd wouldn't if you knew that person was stronger, but she did to spike her own rebellion same for Barragan and Grimmjow

I don't think you are getting my point. There was no "plan" for betrayal. There is a difference between being used and betrayed. Hinamori is an example of betrayal, she admired, idolized and trusted Aizen, he tried to kill her,
When you use some one you are trying to get to some one else, some where, or some thing
thats why used is called used and betray is called betray, just like there is a difference between dumb and stooopid
Also, there is no such thing as kinda rebel, you either rebel or you don't simple,
Also Halibel, was attacked first, so she attacked back, almost like self defense. Besides I am not even talking about "espada rebellion" I am talking about this supposedly "Plan" of betrayal Aizen made.....

[secretzfan]

Originally Posted by SweetPrincess

I don't think you are getting my point. There was no "plan" for betrayal. There is a difference between being used and betrayed. Hinamori is an example of betrayal, she admired, idolized and trusted Aizen, he tried to kill her,
When you use some one you are trying to get to some one else, some where, or some thing
thats why used is called used and betray is called betray, just like there is a difference between dumb and stooopid
Also, there is no such thing as kinda rebel, you either rebel or you don't simple,
Also Halibel, was attacked first, so she attacked back, almost like self defense. Besides I am not even talking about "espada rebellion" I am talking about this supposedly "Plan" of betrayal Aizen made.....

But the Espada cherished Aizen like Zommari and Syzael if they found out Aizen was just using them they would see it as betrayal.

As for the rebellion it was with Tia was attacked first of course so how was it self defense if she was already attacked. After one attack she got angry at Aizen for what he did and so got back up to attack him. Is that not a form of rebellion. I mean she already knew Aizen was stronger than she was yet after finding out Aizen used her she got angry and attacked proving some Espada would rebel if they found out Aizen was just using them.

[Stormwhite]

Or maybe she attacked in an effort to get some last minute revenge, knowing that she would die, hm?

[secretzfan]

That could be

[Cygnus]

There was a few things that they did very, very wrong. The problem, honestly, is that it could have gone very, very right.

See, the main issue is that Aizen simply stopped caring about his stated goal. He was too smart, in essence; he didn't have a doomsday clock ticking down that could be stopped, he didn't have anything he really needed to protect other than his own life. He had no weaknesses for the good guys to exploit, so it just turned into a straight up slugfest, which NEVER WORKS with a big bad(with some MINOR exceptions).

Even after the massive fights and whatnot, however, it still could have been made up for...if it were implied that they were all a result of Aizen's illusions. But they missed that que and just kept rolling to an unsatisfying finale.

Here's how I think it should have gone.


Have the whole fighting in Karakura Town thing happen like it did, with evolutions and all...except when Gin and Aizen get to the real Karakura, and Gin puts his hand on Aizen's blade, have Aizen revert back to his normal form. He was just putting up an illusion the entire time. Immediately, Gin kills or at least defeats Aizen, taking the Hogyouku, and begins to make the King's Key...Immediately starting a sort of Countdown for the Heroes to race against.

Of course, they almost win, maybe beating Gin, but they lose in the end because the King's Key gets formed, and begins to unlock the King's Palace, With a nice cliffhanger as Yamamoto shows up in time to give a nice Big NO!

Then the king emerges...and Gin walks up to him and says something along the lines of "Finally you're free, my master." The Spirit King is actually evil! THEN the epic ultimate fight begins, and most likely ends with a combo of Chad's Power, Byakuya's power, Rukia's power, and Ichigo's Final Getsuga Tenshou...which is final, meaning that it will kill him when he uses it. All his life force will be exhausted.

In the very end, even that's not enough to get him an open shot, and finally Gin sees that what he's doing is only going to hurt Rangiku, who is the only thing he really cares about, and he helps too, going bankai on his ass, letting the Getsuga Tenshou through. The spirint king blows up, but it levels the (now empty) city. Only ruins are left, with Ichigo sitting looking over the remains of his hometown.

Just before he dies, Orihime shows up, and his dying causes a sort of reverse hollow transformation in her; she goes all goddess on his ass. Her hair grows to her legs, her eyes glow, her fairies grow to full human size, the whole nine yards. Using power(which has always been said to be godlike), she repairs all of Karakura town, Breaks down the King's Key, revives every person in Karakura, EXCEPT for Ichigo. She thinks she's failed to bring him back and she goes back down to normal, and finally tells him that she loves him and kisses him...

And then he comes back to life, realizing that all this time the twisting that he felt within himself was emotions for Orihime that he couldn't explain. Finally realizing the truth of their feelings, they stand and kiss eachother again, not seeing every member of the Soul Society that helped them standing far below and cheering or standing in approval, or complaining that now that they've saved everyone they cant be used for science experiments anymore.

Renji and Rukia both watch silently, but inside their heads, thoughts are raging. Rukia is thinking about how lucky Orihime is to finally realize who it is she loves, and then turns towards Renji, "Renji-"

At exactly the same time, Renji is thinking of how he has to be as brave as Ichigo or he cant call himself a man. Turning towards Rukia, he starts, "Rukia-"

They stare at eachother for a long moment, and then rukia smiles and pulls him away, saying that they need to have a nice long talk.

The Series finishes as Ichigo and Orihime finish their kiss and look up at their world, a world that's now free of the threat of Aizen and the Soul King.

Credits.

[Aqua Knight]

I think you'd better put this on fanfiction dot net.

[Cygnus]

Lol, I'm working on it, but i had all these ideas BEFORE the current arc happened. Sadly no 'i was right!' moment here.