2007-12-21, 09:17 | Link #181 | ||||||||
"I'll cut them off..."
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Washington
Age: 38
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I stand corrected. Using any tailed form causes damage then.
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2007-12-21, 10:39 | Link #182 | |||||
Time-diver
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Location is all relative.
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-Those twins aren't bound to the same lifeline like the Kyuubi and Naruto are. If one of those twins dies the other can still live on. They would need to share the same soul, not the mind, before they are in the same boat as our objects of discussion.
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2007-12-21, 11:54 | Link #183 | ||||||
"I'll cut them off..."
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Washington
Age: 38
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2007-12-21, 12:11 | Link #184 |
An Intellectual Idiot
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Internet, ranging from the World of Warcraft------Deviantart----and much more!..My mostly WoW
Age: 31
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They don't share the same soul. The Kyuubi's soul is trapped within Naruto...that's just it. I find it kind of weird that the Kyuubi still has his Chakra though...this states that the power is with in everyone's souls does it not? Also, I think people would treat Naruto like he's a god if they knew he could easily relase the Kyuubi just by cutting a little seal with in his mind...xD
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2007-12-21, 13:21 | Link #185 | ||
The Ironman
Join Date: Sep 2006
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I don't know if it's the case that there's absolutely no way a bijuu can be removed without killing the jinchuuriki or if that Akatsuki's method of removing the beasts is fatal. Could be that the situation is like a tumor. Some tumors can't be removed because they are in a place in the body were removing it would prove fatal. However, this isn't because the tumor is crucial to the body's survival, in fact, it is the opposite. So I don't think the jinchuuriki dependence on the bijuu is really proven. Quote:
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2007-12-21, 13:25 | Link #186 | |
An Intellectual Idiot
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Internet, ranging from the World of Warcraft------Deviantart----and much more!..My mostly WoW
Age: 31
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2007-12-21, 15:53 | Link #187 | |
Time-diver
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Location is all relative.
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-Points 1-2. Yes I am sure there are thousands upon thousands of ninja who are practitioners of Tensei no jutsu that all the villagers are flourishing with them. There are so many that they are willing to sacrifice their lives for someone they never got a chance to know properly at the drop of a hat. You seem to be under the impression that we will always be granted with some new throw-away character that can use the Tensi no jutsu. I am sorry to say but that card has already been played once in the story and that was more than enough. Doing it more than once will make Naruto DBZ's retarded little brother. "Oh my best friend is dead. *Sigh* may as well gather up the balls and make that revival wish again". So either you want Naruto to keep his life with the Kyuubi or you want him to die a slow and painful death and then laugh at his misfortune saying "That's what you get for being what you are". And before you go and say to me or yourself "But if he's revived then its all well and good" let me remind you that it is not. If that were to happen then he's better off staying dead since the power he had worked so hard to achieve will be gone and his enemies certainly will not wait for him to get stronger again. They'll kill him the moment he revives. -Point 3. Naruto and the Kyuubi make up one particular entity. They are 2 parts that make a whole. That makes sense to me why not you? -Point 4. I thought we were arguing points and facts rather rather than theories but whatever you say. In any case that dialogue seems contradictory to me if he used both "our" and "my" in the same scene. Then again the Kyuubi's mind is prideful so I suppose it believes it still has ownership over the power that was transfered to Naruto. -Point 5. If that is the case then why does that seal even exist if it doesn't block the chakra away fully? The Kyuubi is an intelligent mind I'm sure he could figure out that he can force his influence through and strike at any given moment. Naruto could be taking a stroll to the marketplace and then BOOM Kyuubi gets out. But that hasn't happened yet now has it? Now the question stands as to why? -Point 6. Soul, life it's really something that solidifies the significance between Naruto and the Kyuubi. The entity that they form will die should the Kyuubi ever get extracted and vice versa. Orochimaru stated long ago back in the Forest of Death "For the last 12 years they've been merging", but you already knew this right? This shoul automatically tell you that the 2 share this existance. *Anyways this is it for me. You've been a good sport and I'll give you rep points for that.* -BTW Sabaku Kyu I don't know if you remember but Chiyo stated that all jinchuuriki that have their bijuu removed die. After all she was the one that extracted the Shukaku from 2 different hosts prior to sealing it in Gaara and they both died. I wouldn`t doubt it if all the other methods that involve this process end up fatal.
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2007-12-21, 22:16 | Link #188 | ||||||||
"I'll cut them off..."
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Washington
Age: 38
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And about Naruto dying a slow and painful death. Isn't that what you were saying was happening to him, seeing as you thought of the Kyuubi as a Parasite that would eventually kill his host? So then it shouldn't really matter. Plus, if he were to lose "all the power he achieved" after the Kyuubi is extracted, then wouldn't that mean it wasn't his power in the first place? Kyuubi isn't a power he has achieved, it's a power he learned how to call forth. Quote:
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And I think not only the Kyuubi, but even Naruto himself thinks of the Kyuubi's power is not his own. Quote:
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2007-12-22, 02:54 | Link #190 |
Diamond Dust Survivor
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New York
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In reply to Mistacloudestrife,
Not going to go into a long debate, since the subject is beaten to death and we each have our own interpretation. However just to address a few things..... 1. To continue along with the analogy used earlier with the colored water in a glass... I see the whole naruto/Kyubi situation as this: We have Naruto (water) and Kyubi (red dye) and then Naruto's body (glass cup). At birth water and red dye mixed to form the glass cup we see today. Now say Akatsuki got their hands on Naruto. They extract Kyubi and Naruto dies. How do we explain Naruto dying since physically there's nothing wrong with his body? I theorize they are probably attacking the soul. What's one way to separate water from contaminations? Evaporate it. So we will have a Glass (Naruto's Body) + red dye (Kyubi) left in Naruto's body. Akatsuki takes care of the red dye by pulling it into their dragon summon. Now we have an empty container. How was Gaara brought back to life? Again nothing was wrong physically with his body. I theorize that Chiyo used her life force to convert that evaporated water back into 'water' so that it may return to its glass. 2. Regardless of the arguements, the original statement that started this all was that you felt Naruto is cheap for using Kyubi's chakra. So this really is just a matter of opinion on what each of us considers cheap. Would you call all the home owners cheap for collecting rent from those who occupy their property? In this case Naruto's ability to use Kyubi's chakra as a result of his occupation of Naruto's being. Also Naruto has finally learned the consequences of going kyubified since his last use that resulted in Sakura's injuries. He hasn't sprouted tails since. You can only blame him if he was aware and continued to use it. However this was the first time he was informed of his power actually hurting those around him. I wonder why Jiraya never told him about the four tail transformation. 3. The reason why Naruto doesn't just go Kyubified at any moment's notice is because his chakra hold's back the Kyubi's chakra. I believe this was mentioned by Jiriaya on a few occasions. Also explains why during the training arc Yamato was needed to keep naruto in check as he was constantly draining is own natural chakra to a low enough level that Kyubi's chakra overwhelmed and leaked out at a faster pace. Its also a fact that Kyubi's chakra constantly mixes with Naruto's chakra regardless of Naruto's will. |
2007-12-22, 03:44 | Link #191 | |||
"I'll cut them off..."
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Washington
Age: 38
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I think the parasite theory works better in this situation. The Kyuubi was sealed in Naruto, where he had to survive by becoming a sort of parasite by using Naruto's body, although he didn't have control of it for a long time until a long time later in the anime. And by now the parasite has affixed itself somewhat to Naruto. I think you could think of it as if you were to place your body against another persons body for a long enough time(I mean over a decade) the flesh would begin to bond, in some form. Like this but in a more spiritual sense. If the Kyuubi were to just be torn away from Naruto, the wound inflicted by suddenly tearing them apart would be fatal. Chiyo on the other hand somehow is able to fix this problem... The thing I don't understand is she is a medical ninja. I don't think she would be able to heal any sort of spiritual injury. I think perhaps the wound by tearing the two apart might actually be physical. Having an enormous amount of chakra being ripped from your insides and sucked out through your mouth, eyes, and pores would probably cause some sort of physical damage.(Not to mention the Akatsuki try to do this as fast as they can and even then it takes a very long time) If this damage is the cause for death, I don't know. It could be both spiritual and physical damage as well. Quote:
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2007-12-23, 18:02 | Link #193 |
"I'll cut them off..."
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Washington
Age: 38
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Naruto only summon Gamma-Bunta after utilizing the Kyuubi chakra? So for now, Naruto can't summon Gamma-Bunta without the Kyuubi, therefore, he can't beat everyone using only his own chakra for summoning and kage bunshin. Not to mention that Kishimoto has made kage bunshin out to be a weak jutsu despite it being a secret technique. How many people have made that poofing sound while fighting Naruto's clones? Countless. And people like Neji and Kimimaro have owned armies worth of Kage Bunshins pretty easily.
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2007-12-23, 18:52 | Link #194 |
Senior Member
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the reason that naruto couldn't summon with his chakra is cause he sucked at controlling it. i think you have to put specific amounts for different frogs. he uses the kyuubu chakra--maximum and summons boss. i know that naruto adn the kyuubi aren't one but i just couldn't agree, that it was cheap. cause naruto is a jinchuuriki, and a jinchuuriki's skill depends on how well he can controll his bijuu powers(that is right i said his, its in his body thus belongs to him, and he has the right to use it.) the more power naruto draws the harder it is to control himself. so its not cheap untill the kyuubi takes over. when it is they kyuubi fighting for naruto(1st time he turned 1 tail, and 4-tails) it is obviously not his power. but untill then its him controlling the kyuubi powers and i think its fair. cause as we saw against oro, just cause he has powerfull chakra doesn't mean he knows how to use it to its full potential.(god forbid it was anyone else with the kyuubi, it would have been really cheap )
about another coming out for every new bad guy, that is just a shonen thing, there will always be another power up for the new bad guys.
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2007-12-23, 19:07 | Link #195 |
epic hero
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: In a place in the mountins of Europe, a place where legends still spring in the world of modern man.
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There is one thing that has been bothering me. Naruto's powers when used with the Kyuubi seams to increase a great deal even by tailed beast standards. What I mean is that the manga and anime said something about the Kyuubi able to create tsunamies, crumble mountins easily, yet Naruto seams to be able to do that while using less then half of the Kyuubi's full power.
Also in the manga and anime when Naruto travels in his mind. Kyuubi said "Let's show them our power". What's with the word "our"? Doesn't he mean his(Kyuubi) power? And I know it could have been to fool Naruto into using it, but still.... The reason I think that Naruto's power is much greater then a the Kyuubi in his big size, is because the chakra itself is compressed making it harder and power powerfull. But there could be a number of resons, this is just one... |
2007-12-23, 22:57 | Link #196 | |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: London (UK)
Age: 43
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Naruto is just a neglected character who gets dumbed down at every possible opportunity. Prime example is if you compare him and Sakura versus Kakashi and then him and Sai versus Tenzou. He's kept weak for absolutely no reason. I mean where is his ability to summon the frogs of his choosing? In fact i covered this in another post, let me quote Spoiler for from How will Jiraiya and his students's fates shape the events to come?:
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2007-12-24, 00:17 | Link #197 |
Time-diver
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Location is all relative.
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-Lets see now: will Naruto be stronger than the Hokage? Nope, not in a million years (no wait that's too soon so make that a billion). With Kishimoto's massive tendency to downplay Naruto in every single way imaginable the chances of Naruto becoming stronger than the Hokage are about the same as me being attractive to beautiful single women. What will most likely happen is that Naruto will get captured, have his demon extracted, die as a result and then everyone moves on like nothing happened.
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2007-12-24, 00:23 | Link #198 | |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: London (UK)
Age: 43
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in regards to the whole cheating thing; bloodline vs kyuubi. think of it like this if two twins are born, one boy, one girl. the boy has a sex change and the girl grows up beautiful. they both end up married with great looking husbands. does it really matter how they got there? |
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2007-12-24, 00:23 | Link #199 | |
Ultimate Coordinator
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: San Francisco
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2007-12-24, 00:36 | Link #200 | |
Sensei
Join Date: Nov 2007
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