[Game] Umineko - Spoilers, Theories, Interpretations

[jjblue1]

Technically considering the Meta doesn't really exist but it's probably part of someone's fantasy is possible that the characters are built up with certain knowleges while missing certain others.

MetaBattler is created with the knowledge Ushiromiya Battler had in 1986, a time in which it's assumed he had no idea his mother wasn't Asumu.

However whoever created the Meta (let's assume is Tohya) also know Battler is Kyrie's son and that Sakutarou isn't handmade.
This person might have decided that MetaBeatrice might have been aware of the truth behind Battler's birth because... let's say Rudolf bribed the hospital doctor by using Kinzo's money and name and therefore it was possible Beatrice was informed by Genji as Ange speculated... or maybe Rudolf tattled the truth out to Krauss or Kinzo when he went to talk with them about how Asumu died and Battler left him and was overheard.

In short he deemed possible for Beatrice to know this truth. However Beatrice... (and her human vessel) lives secluded on Rokkenjima and she was feed false informations from Maria so, who created MetaBeatrice assumed Beatrice couldn't know this truth about Sakutarou.

Since MetaBeatrice and MetaBattler aren't RealBattler and RealBeatrice the knowledge of both can be speculated by who created them... or it can match the real knowledge they had in 1986 which is of course less powerfull than the knowledge of truth Ange has in 1998.

Originally Posted by Captain Bluebeard

I looked up the scene in question. Here is what Jessica specifically says:

Other than the 'once she started talking about you' part, I'd say nothing in the scene conclusively points towards George. If that wasn't mentioned, it might not be much of a stretch to say Jessica only assumes that she was talking about George, but we see that his name did come up in the discussion.

Yes, that's what I had speculated also from the translation but I wanted to know if the original Japanese test also supported this interpretation or pinned George with more certainity.

[Captain Bluebeard]

Originally Posted by jjblue1

Technically considering the Meta doesn't really exist but it's probably part of someone's fantasy is possible that the characters are built up with certain knowleges while missing certain others.

The thing is, the actual Yasu seems to know the truth about Battler's birth. It is hinted in EP1 which is written by her that Rudolf is hiding something from Kyrie and wants to confess, and EP8 indirectly confirms it was this.

And there's a chapter in ep8 manga that explains how Beatrice got to know about the baby swap (via furniture = Genji)
It's chapter 7 of ep8

That really seems to be way too convenient. Do the Ushiromiyas just go ahead and tell Genji everything? Okay, in Kinzo's case, Genji is his close friend and he needed his assistance to carry the entire Kuwadorian scheme out, but why is Battler's birth something that Genji would need to know? Interestingly enough, the person Rosa tells all about the Kuwadorian Beatrice that very same night is again Genji... really, Genji is some handy furniture.

If Genji ever decided to tell everything he knows about the family to the press, or even better, blackmail them to keep his mouth shut, he could make a pretty decent living....

Originally Posted by theacefrehley

I dont have the game now, but, yes, Beatrice cant say the whole phrase, and stops midway.

Yeah, you're right, turns out she does choke. But does that annule the rest of the phrase she managed to say or not? It really is unclear.

[Renall]

Originally Posted by Captain Bluebeard

That really seems to be way too convenient. Do the Ushiromiyas just go ahead and tell Genji everything? Okay, in Kinzo's case, Genji is his close friend and he needed his assistance to carry the entire Kuwadorian scheme out, but why is Battler's birth something that Genji would need to know? Interestingly enough, the person Rosa tells all about the Kuwadorian Beatrice that very same night is again Genji... really, Genji is some handy furniture.

It's almost like... Genji is some kind of... plot device, a convenient way to explain how information that would otherwise be unknown to any but the person experiencing something is available to the characters that will convey it to the reader!

But I suppose "Genji got in on the baby swap shenanigans" is easier to swallow than "Yasu just coincidentally happened to be digging into information on the parents and somehow discovered evidence of the baby swap" or something. Then again, if it's in ep4 I suppose Yasu didn't really have to know it at all; somebody at the hospital could've told a TV program about it after the incident for money or whatever. It doesn't seem like something that would've been especially relevant to the weekend to anyone but Rudolf, who was about to tell Kyrie and Battler anyway. And if Battler were told, it would allow Tohya to (potentially) know it.

[theacefrehley]

Originally Posted by Captain Bluebeard

Yeah, you're right, turns out she does choke. But does that annule the rest of the phrase she managed to say or not? It really is unclear.

Made by Rosa for her daughter's birthday, and in the entire world, the one

Of course it annules. It's one incomplete phrase.
Even if not, it's a loose phrase that can mean anything. That something was made by Rosa, and is unique in the world. Not necessarily Sakutaro.

Unless she is faking the choking, but that would only make things contradict with ep8

And Battler would be Asumu's son
The original goes (if my memory does not fail): ore wa (I) asumu kara (from asumu) umare- (was bo-) *choke*

[theacefrehley]

Originally Posted by Renall

But I suppose "Genji got in on the baby swap shenanigans" is easier to swallow than "Yasu just coincidentally happened to be digging into information on the parents and somehow discovered evidence of the baby swap" or something. Then again, if it's in ep4 I suppose Yasu didn't really have to know it at all; somebody at the hospital could've told a TV program about it after the incident for money or whatever. It doesn't seem like something that would've been especially relevant to the weekend to anyone but Rudolf, who was about to tell Kyrie and Battler anyway. And if Battler were told, it would allow Tohya to (potentially) know it.

In that same manga chapter I mentioned, Ange says that this baby swap is known in the future world. People investigated the lives of the relatives and the doctor confessed the swap.

[Captain Bluebeard]

Originally Posted by Renall

It's almost like... Genji is some kind of... plot device, a convenient way to explain how information that would otherwise be unknown to any but the person experiencing something is available to the characters that will convey it to the reader!

That really is a crying shame. Genji is so close to the core of the mystery and pretty much everything else that happens in the island yet he always keeps silent. And it's a pity because a guy like that could make for a great and interesting character.... supposing he actually does have one and isn't actually a talking wardrobe.

Originally Posted by theacefrehley

In that same manga chapter I mentioned, Ange says that this baby swap is known in the future world. People investigated the lives of the relatives and the doctor confessed the swap.

Oh yeah, I seem to recall that manga chapter, I actually did read it. But it doesn't really explain why Genji would know, which is a part which really needed to be expanded. We also don't know what impact that had on Yasu, because it must have been important. She must have really flipped out to learn that Battler's six year absence could have been avoided, and probably give birth to many negative feelings against Rudolf.

On that note, I really like the tender way Rudolf seems to think of Asumu in the manga (that's actually the first time we're given any insight on their relationsip btw). Kyrie's description of her actually gives the impression of a very sneaky and annoying woman but well, how partial could Kyrie be? For example, Battler's brief description of her in EP4 makes her seem quite nice. I'd really like to see how she would behave in one of the past family conferences and how she'd fit in... and actually who she was at all. She's kinda important, especially because she cultivates the main character's personality and affects his behavior so much, but she's never actually given credit for it.

Also, her depiction in the manga looks an awful lot like Beatrice.... which I'm not sure what is supposed to say about Battler.

[theacefrehley]

My guess is that Rudolf was not old enough at the time, or at least didn't have money of his own to be throwing around, so he had to rely on Kinzo's help (which automatically means Genji will know everything). If Kinzo was already going too mad at the time, then I guess Genji would 'kind of' assume Kinzo's place and deal with the problem himself, to protect the family name, or something.

[Captain Bluebeard]

I personally like to think that Rudolf told Kinzo over beer or something:
"Hahahaha, that's my boy!!! Seriously, I just had an incest daughter/son with my bastard child which I hid in a mansion on this very island and stuff, but swapping babies, ahahaha, that takes the cake!!!"
"You had a what?"
"Nothing..."

And that's how the secret leaked....

[jjblue1]

Originally Posted by Captain Bluebeard

The thing is, the actual Yasu seems to know the truth about Battler's birth. It is hinted in EP1 which is written by her that Rudolf is hiding something from Kyrie and wants to confess, and EP8 indirectly confirms it was this.

It can be. As I said it was possible for Yasu to know the truth so all the more she might have known it.

Originally Posted by Captain Bluebeard

That really seems to be way too convenient. Do the Ushiromiyas just go ahead and tell Genji everything? Okay, in Kinzo's case, Genji is his close friend and he needed his assistance to carry the entire Kuwadorian scheme out, but why is Battler's birth something that Genji would need to know? Interestingly enough, the person Rosa tells all about the Kuwadorian Beatrice that very same night is again Genji... really, Genji is some handy furniture.

If Genji ever decided to tell everything he knows about the family to the press, or even better, blackmail them to keep his mouth shut, he could make a pretty decent living....

Well, Genji is deeply trusted. Even Rosa believed he would help her when she told him Beatrice died instead than just tattling it out to Kinzo.

I don't think Genji would need to know it but it can be that:
- Rudolf told Kinzo or Krauss or both the truth when he married Kyrie and one of them ended up tattling it out to Genji in a 'oh Rudolf always gets himself in troubles but I would have never thought he would go so far as to swap his children' fashion.
- Actually, like Rosa, Rudolf needed a confidant and picked up Genji because who's better at listening you than a furniture?

It can be Genji was subconsciously considered by the siblings much more of a father figure than Kinzo himself so when they had a trouble they were used to go to Genji and he would solve it or, at least, listen to them.
At the same time though, they thought of him as inferior because he's a servant so they never quite managed a loving bond but at least they trusted him blindly enough to tell him their secrets.

Though it's also possible that it was Yasu who eavesdropped a converstaion between the adults when she heard Battler's name and ended up discovering the truth on Battler's birth. But I tend to go to what the manga said. Genji ended up on knowing and Beatrice/Yasu might have asked him for more information about Battler and he might have ended up telling her.

Interesting enough I'd like to know Genji's position in Yasu's love affairs. I mean, the ones she's crushing after are her cousins, but also her nephews/niece.
While Japan has no problems accepting love between cousins love between aunt/uncle and nephew/niece is considered incest in the same way as father/daughter and we know although Genji didn't comment he didn't approve.

It'll be interesting if actually Battler wrote Shannon a letter or even more than one JUST AFTER he left the family (and not years later like he did for his cousins) and Genji had the letter be hidden/destroyed in hope this will keep Shannon and Battler apart... only to find out George would pursue her.
LOL, maybe he was the one suggesting Eva to marry off George to another girl so that Kinzo will find him a better heir or something in hope to keep George as well away from Shannon... and when this didn't work he decided to tattle out the full truth about her body and what her father did to her.

I mean... she didn't really need to know she was an incest baby and that the relation between her mother and her father might have been not consensual... it could have been enough to tell her that Kinzo wanted to apologize because he failed to protect Beatrice and legalize her position as his second wife or something.

Unless it was Kinzo who got into details she would have had no ways to find the truth out hadn't Genji, Kumasawa or Nanjo told her.
Same goes for the truth about how Kinzo got the gold. They could have handed her Ep 7 version instead than the brutal truth.

However Genji told her and caused her to end up feeling a strong disgust for Kinzo and his blood, maybe in hope to push her to act differently and stay away from the people that were related to her by blood. Not that it worked.

[Captain Bluebeard]

Originally Posted by jjblue1

It'll be interesting if actually Battler wrote Shannon a letter or even more than one JUST AFTER he left the family (and not years later like he did for his cousins) and Genji had the letter be hidden/destroyed in hope this will keep Shannon and Battler apart... only to find out George would pursue her.
LOL, maybe he was the one suggesting Eva to marry off George to another girl so that Kinzo will find him a better heir or something in hope to keep George as well away from Shannon... and when this didn't work he decided to tattle out the full truth about her body and what her father did to her.

That would be the most amazing character ever written!!!!

In all seriousness though, how much of this did Genji actually know? If my memory doesn't fail me, I don't recall anything in the narrative suggesting Genji knew about it, or if he did, he didn't actually have any say whatsoever. I mean, he was okay about Kinzo raping his daughter and he willingly helped out with a plan to murder the entire family and blow the island up without any protests, so I trust nephew incest would be something he'd take quite naturally.

Seriously though, evil-behind-the-scenes-mastermind Genji! I love this idea! Just imagine what new ways that would create to play with Ronove's part....

[GoldenLand]

In some ways, we can say that Genji's a completely boring walking plot device. In another way, we can say that he's a goldmine of untapped potential. He could be the best evil mastermind to walk the island.

Genji's probably really chill about things like baby swapping. Hell, he's probably relieved that none of Kinzo's children went in for imprisoning and molesting their children on an island. Kinzo gave his own kid with a mistress to be raised by Krauss and Natsuhi in circumstances where it would have been awkward if the truth was revealed. Rudolf gives his child with a mistress to his wife in circumstances where the truth would have been awkward. Only thing is that Asumu was never told about it...

I do wonder what time Grandmother Ushiromiya died at. She was alive at the time when Rosa ran into the forest and met Beatrice 2. Battler describes her as long dead, and my impression is that she was still alive at some point during Battler's childhood, but I can't be certain of that. In any case, it seems likely that she was still around at the time when Natsuhi was given the baby to raise. It's been stated that she had an inferiority complex in reaction to her belief that Kinzo was cheating on her, and the lines about "Anyway, ...there's a good chance that this love was mutual, unlike with Mother" would seem to imply that she did love Kinzo.

So it's rather an omission that we never got to see her reaction to Natsuhi being given a child to raise by Kinzo, unless she was away from home at the time. I suppose it would have complicated the story about Natsuhi and the baby if somebody else with issues about the adoption was present. There's no way she wouldn't have suspected that her own descendents were being bypassed by Kinzo, having the child of a mistress of Kinzo placed foremost in the rankings of the family. In fact, case closed, Grandmother Ushiromiya had the best motive for throwing baby Yasu off a cliff. It's just a question of how she did it.

[jjblue1]

Originally Posted by Captain Bluebeard

That would be the most amazing character ever written!!!!

In all seriousness though, how much of this did Genji actually know? If my memory doesn't fail me, I don't recall anything in the narrative suggesting Genji knew about it, or if he did, he didn't actually have any say whatsoever. I mean, he was okay about Kinzo raping his daughter and he willingly helped out with a plan to murder the entire family and blow the island up without any protests, so I trust nephew incest would be something he'd take quite naturally.

Seriously though, evil-behind-the-scenes-mastermind Genji! I love this idea! Just imagine what new ways that would create to play with Ronove's part....

Well, it's hinted in Ep 6 and in the Saint Valentine Tip that Yasu might have asked Genji (Ronove) and Kumasawa (Virgilia) help to prepare sweets that might have pleased Battler... and Kumasawa (Virgilia) is mostly her confidant so it might be she sort of confessed to them the truth.

Also, if George could notice the chemistry in Battler and Shannon I guess so could Kumasawa (who's prone to eavesdropping) and Genji and although they could have found it cute in the beginning they might have reconsidered when they realized the possible implications to it.

Also, Genji purposely wanted Shannon to be there for Kinzo. It's said she had to file some documents to drop her job she might have asked Genji info about what to do before she learnt Battler weren't to come back... and he might have figured out her intentions or prodded her about it and learnt about them.

So, in order to keep her there for Kinzo and to stop her from committing incest and well, finding herself in troubles when she would discover the truth about herself, he might have decided that if a letter from Battler were to arrive he would dispose of it. As Shannon generally doesn't receive mails it would stand out if she were to suddently receive a letter.

If Battler wrote her more than one letter and never received an answer he would have no reasons to write her 3 years after when he wrote to the cousins thinking she didn't reply previously because either she had left on her own or just doesn't want to talk to him. Ergo no letter for Shannon.



Well, Genji wasn't okay with Kinzo raping his daughter... he just didn't know how to say 'no' to Kinzo. Genji is more or less always supporting Kinzo even when Kinzo is doing messed up things.
It's clear Kinzo raised his children poorly but when he beats up Krauss in front of Eva and then feel sick and asks Genji what did he do wrong to have such horrible kids Genji tells him he's blameless. He also tells him, after he dies, he surely ahve been forgiven.

Genji is, toward Kinzo, the sort of mom that know his kid is messing up but... well, he's her kid and she doesn't have the heart to scold him.

I think Genji had much more potential but Umineko ended up dropping him somehow. Even Ep 7 doesn't really talk much about Genji. He's mostly always covering Kinzo's back. Honestly I'm not surprised there's who speculated Genji suffered of unrequired love for Kinzo... who instead was obsessed with Beatrice.
He seems happy when he can see Kinzo in Battler and Ronove even tried hitting on Battler.

Originally Posted by GoldenLand

Only thing is that Asumu was never told about it...

Honestly I've the feeling that Asumu figured out or was told about it but decided to continue with the pretense Battler was her child or try to. Rudolf claims she wasn't as forgiving as she looked and implied she could have a bad temper.
He also seems to feel guilty about her dead, which makes me wonder how exactly Asumu died as it seems a pretty sudden death since Kyrie was planning to kill her when... Asumu died on her own. If she was suffering of a terminal illness I guess Kyrie would have just patiently waited instead of buying a knife.

Originally Posted by GoldenLand

I do wonder what time Grandmother Ushiromiya died at. She was alive at the time when Rosa ran into the forest and met Beatrice 2. Battler describes her as long dead, and my impression is that she was still alive at some point during Battler's childhood, but I can't be certain of that. In any case, it seems likely that she was still around at the time when Natsuhi was given the baby to raise. It's been stated that she had an inferiority complex in reaction to her belief that Kinzo was cheating on her, and the lines about "Anyway, ...there's a good chance that this love was mutual, unlike with Mother" would seem to imply that she did love Kinzo.

So it's rather an omission that we never got to see her reaction to Natsuhi being given a child to raise by Kinzo, unless she was away from home at the time. I suppose it would have complicated the story about Natsuhi and the baby if somebody else with issues about the adoption was present. There's no way she wouldn't have suspected that her own descendents were being bypassed by Kinzo, having the child of a mistress of Kinzo placed foremost in the rankings of the family. In fact, case closed, Grandmother Ushiromiya had the best motive for throwing baby Yasu off a cliff. It's just a question of how she did it.

There are some characters Umineko completely neglected. Battler's mother. Kinzo's wife. Maria's father. George's fiancé (which seems marginal but he had an Omiai with her in 1984 if not earlier so they've been promised for 2 years or more). Nanjo's grandaughter.
Actually maybe it would be better to say there are part of the plot Umineko completely neglected. We've no idea how Battler spent those 6 years apart for the fact he was... busy. We're told nothing about his grandparents apart that they were furious with Rudolf. We know nothing of Yasu's school life (did she have real friends? was she a good student? did she went to high school or dropped out?). Prior to the manga we weren't told much about the 6 years she spent waiting for Battler and we were told even less of her 2 last years.
And then we've caracters like Amakusa or Ikuko whose background is pretty weak.
Maybe instead than keeping on adding characters Umineko would have done well to flesh out the ones it already had.

[haguruma]

Originally Posted by jjblue1

There are some characters Umineko completely neglected. Battler's mother. Kinzo's wife. Maria's father. George's fiancé (which seems marginal but he had an Omiai with her in 1984 if not earlier so they've been promised for 2 years or more). Nanjo's grandaughter.

While I agree that Umineko had a way too big cast to properly develop even it's central characters (especially those that joined later) and there was a ton of time spent on only vaguely important fantasy-characters...

But I'd say the problem is, that the whole story is told and "meta-"written from a very personal perspective and is to reflect the author's opinion on events within and sorrounding Rokkenjima in the past as much as the future (in-universe). Neither Battler nor Yasu actually knew much of Kinzo's wife, they probably never met Maria's father apart from 2 or 3 times when he was begging for money, Nanjo pretty much keeps his private life apart from the Rokkenjima events...Asumu is pretty much the only character from the past that could have received more development.

And just to add because there seems to be a misunderstanding: Yes, George had an Omiai...he probably had a lot of Omiais if Eva was that insistent on making him marry...but that does not mean that he was promised or anything. An Omiai is more or less informal and more like a strange mixture between a "date set-up" and an interview.

[jjblue1]

Originally Posted by haguruma

While I agree that Umineko had a way too big cast to properly develop even it's central characters (especially those that joined later) and there was a ton of time spent on only vaguely important fantasy-characters...

But I'd say the problem is, that the whole story is told and "meta-"written from a very personal perspective and is to reflect the author's opinion on events within and sorrounding Rokkenjima in the past as much as the future (in-universe). Neither Battler nor Yasu actually knew much of Kinzo's wife, they probably never met Maria's father apart from 2 or 3 times when he was begging for money, Nanjo pretty much keeps his private life apart from the Rokkenjima events...Asumu is pretty much the only character from the past that could have received more development.

That's true too but still I wish we could have given a look to those characters... and expecially to the ones related to Battler since he's a pretty important character.

Originally Posted by haguruma

And just to add because there seems to be a misunderstanding: Yes, George had an Omiai...he probably had a lot of Omiais if Eva was that insistent on making him marry...but that does not mean that he was promised or anything. An Omiai is more or less informal and more like a strange mixture between a "date set-up" and an interview.

Well, Ep 6 mentioned only an Omiai and then several dates with the girl of the Omiai, Ayumi. And while I get George didn't feel tied to her from the way Eva describes things it seems that George's family and Ayumi's family consider their children as already bound together which reminded me of how in the past parents were used to promise their children and marry them off without their consent. So I sort of assumed they were unofficially considered engaged by their parents.



On an interesting side note I'm re-reading Ep 1 and in it Eva says:

The culprit, ......no, culprits in the plural, would have more than enough weapons in their arsenal if that were the case. You see it, don't you? They had to assault the four in the dining hall and kill them, drag a total of six bodies all the way to the storehouse beyond the rose garden, and scribble that disgusting makeup on their faces. ......There's no way that a single culprit could carry all of this out on their own, right?

It's interesting how she refers to what had been done to the faces as 'makeup'.
I've been wondering if the setting from Ep 1 is actually very, very close to Ep 5 and she didn't believe Rudolf and Co were really dead but only playing dead and that Krauss had been replaced by a fake body and was being held captive.

In fact most of the reasoning she does with Battler seems to drop out of nowhere with her unable to explain why she thought so, as if she merely wanted to have Battler ponder on this and that.

Eva also seems very busy in trying to pin the blame on Natsuhi and seems to act as if she were suspecting Kinzo is death and we know the manga confirmed it was Yasu who told the adults Kinzo was death so... can it be that she's taking part to all this with the same mindsetting of Ep 5? Just believing this is all a plan to have Natsuhi confess?

[jjblue1]

The spoilers for EP 7 manga new chapter are out and show the solutions to Ep 1 of Umineko.
They confirm Shannon wasn't in the storehouse, that the chain lock of Eva and Hideyoshi room wasn't actually closed, that Kinzo was already dead, that Kanon faked being hurt and that Beatrice, before killing Genji, Nanjo and Kumasawa, entered using the door like any normal person. The text probably adds some more details but I can't really read it.

Who's interested can find them here.

Oh, there's also a colour pic of Will that's really cool!

We're also told that Will's black sword is sort of on his back (well he retrieves it from there but the sword appears magically) while Clair's sword is her book.

There's also more talking about Yasu, who's shown using guns and whose form is the one of a faceless long blonde haired girl.

[GoldenLand]

Thanks for the info, JJ!

It's good to have the solutions for ep 1 confirmed, but at the same time it's a little sad (nostalgic-sad?). Lots of people had already worked out what the solutions must be. Even Ryukishi with his reluctance to tell all is giving us the solutions now. Well, it was inevitable.

It looks as if Yasu's hair is down to mid-back level. So, not as long as Beatrice's, but quite a bit longer than Shannon's and Kanon's. I wonder what the situation really was with Yasu's hair, then? The Beato-hair was shown to be a wig, if things are being consistent. So there's no real point in having mid-back level hair, and Yasu's real hair won't have been blonde anyway. Presumably her normal hair is her Shannon hair and her Kanon hair is either a marvel of quick-change hair styling or another wig. Could be that the blonde mid-back level hair was just a stylistic thing to separate Yasu from Beato/Kanon/Shannon, maybe making her look more like Lion. It does look the most like Lion's hair style.

[battle22]

he spoilers for EP 7 manga new chapter are out and show the solutions to Ep 1 of Umineko.
They confirm Shannon wasn't in the storehouse, that the chain lock of Eva and Hideyoshi room wasn't actually closed, that Kinzo was already dead, that Kanon faked being hurt and that Beatrice, before killing Genji, Nanjo and Kumasawa, entered using the door like any normal person. The text probably adds some more details but I can't really read it.

But Manga isn't canon, remember ? (sarcasm)

[haguruma]

The same as always, me translating the few panels that we get...though at least I can get my hands on the magazine that EP7 runs in...so hopefully more to come during this week and more on EP8 when I'm back in Japan at the start of May.

Spoiler for EP7 EP1 solution manga:

1
Illusion to illusion
Eva and Hideyoshi were bribed by the culprit
The husk that cannot join the earth returns to illusion
The sixth corpse is a lie
2
Illusion to illusion
The servants were agreeing on a story in secret
The chain of illusion can only lock in illusions
The chain had not been set from the start
3
The illusionary man went to the place where he belonged
Kinzo is already dead before the game even starts
4
The last moment of the boy pierced through the chest by a stake
Illusion to illusion
The one who did the autopsy, Nanjo, is an accomplicee
The witch and stakes of illusion
can only pierce through illusion
Kanon's death was self-written and self-enacted
4
The singing girl with her eyes closed is an illusion
Maria's account is only her following the words of the culprit
The illusion of a locked room
The culprit carried a key
5
She sadly came to understand
that it was all actually limited.
That is why she
sought out to discover endlesness
within this limited destiny
And to find the endless
she abandoned her own destiny to god.
But that did not mean that she abandoned her own destiny altogether.
Because
she held on to this roulette of destiny
with an iron will.
6
If noone was to solve the riddle of the epitaph
then she would not let anyone escape.
An absolute
destiny.
That is how the island was locked off
along with her.
The island was sealed in by this iron will from October 4th to 5th 1986.
And whatever destiny might be chosen in that narrow timeframe, on this island
...she would abandon and devote herself to it.

At least now the EP7 manga is also going into a little bit more fine-tuning, as did the EP8 manga from the very beginning.

Considering how they both portray Yasu's true form as quite different, I suppose Ryukishi advised to keep the form of the EP7 culprit in check with the narrative...as to not directly reveal it in a "THIS IS SHKANNON" kind of way. Even in EP8 they are still making it clear that, while they use the Shannon hairstyle (but Beato dress), "that person", Shannon, Kanon, and Beato are quite distinct entities in their own rights. So far no name was ever given...even Erika speaks of Kanon and "X", "that person", "the true culprit".

And I am trying to push myself (with my very...veeeeeryyyyy limited travel-laptop) through translating a bit more of EP8 for people interested in it. It really brings some more neat points to light if you really concentrate on the text...like this here:

Spoiler for EP8 manga chapter16:

I don't remember if and how the game framed that particular scene, but I do like how much the manga also uses visual storytelling to impart elements of the story. Like how it becomes clear that, while the content of the diary is the truth, it is also something that Eva clearly is not happy about and likely painted by her emotions of that day.

[jjblue1]

Originally Posted by GoldenLand

Thanks for the info, JJ!

It's good to have the solutions for ep 1 confirmed, but at the same time it's a little sad (nostalgic-sad?). Lots of people had already worked out what the solutions must be. Even Ryukishi with his reluctance to tell all is giving us the solutions now. Well, it was inevitable.

Well, considering how many wanted to check their answers I'm not going to complain. Personally I'm happy the manga is giving answers. At this point I think who hadn't come up with a solution might have lost interest or not have the ability of coming up with one and a part of those who found the solutions did it by also using extra tips like Ryukishi's interview.

So I see no harm in finally seeing confirmed what I though... as well as finally giving an answer to who couldn't find one.
LOL, I've some solutions I'm not confident myself so I'll be happy to have an official answer.

Originally Posted by GoldenLand

It looks as if Yasu's hair is down to mid-back level. So, not as long as Beatrice's, but quite a bit longer than Shannon's and Kanon's. I wonder what the situation really was with Yasu's hair, then? The Beato-hair was shown to be a wig, if things are being consistent. So there's no real point in having mid-back level hair, and Yasu's real hair won't have been blonde anyway. Presumably her normal hair is her Shannon hair and her Kanon hair is either a marvel of quick-change hair styling or another wig. Could be that the blonde mid-back level hair was just a stylistic thing to separate Yasu from Beato/Kanon/Shannon, maybe making her look more like Lion. It does look the most like Lion's hair style.

My guess is that Yasu is represented like that because that's how Yasu sees herself. Skipping the hair colour (which in Umineko is a messy because... blue hair? Really?) it's possible that Yasu originally had long hair and ended up cutting them later on... maybe when she decided that a part of her would be Shannon and another Beatrice.

In her mind though her true self is the one with long yet not as long as Beatrice hair, while her own version with short hair is "Shannon"... although Shannon is also the look she shows to the world so technically her 'real' self has short hair.

Originally Posted by haguruma

The same as always, me translating the few panels that we get...though at least I can get my hands on the magazine that EP7 runs in...so hopefully more to come during this week and more on EP8 when I'm back in Japan at the start of May.

Spoiler for EP7 EP1 solution manga:

1
Illusion to illusion
Eva and Hideyoshi were bribed by the culprit
The husk that cannot join the earth returns to illusion
The sixth corpse is a lie
2
Illusion to illusion
The servants were agreeing on a story in secret
The chain of illusion can only lock in illusions
The chain had not been set from the start
3
The illusionary man went to the place where he belonged
Kinzo is already dead before the game even starts
4
The last moment of the boy pierced through the chest by a stake
Illusion to illusion
The one who did the autopsy, Nanjo, is an accomplicee
The witch and stakes of illusion
can only pierce through illusion
Kanon's death was self-written and self-enacted
4
The singing girl with her eyes closed is an illusion
Maria's account is only her following the words of the culprit
The illusion of a locked room
The culprit carried a key
5
She sadly came to understand
that it was all actually limited.
That is why she
sought out to discover endlesness
within this limited destiny
And to find the endless
she abandoned her own destiny to god.
But that did not mean that she abandoned her own destiny altogether.
Because
she held on to this roulette of destiny
with an iron will.
6
If noone was to solve the riddle of the epitaph
then she would not let anyone escape.
An absolute
destiny.
That is how the island was locked off
along with her.
The island was sealed in by this iron will from October 4th to 5th 1986.
And whatever destiny might be chosen in that narrow timeframe, on this island
...she would abandon and devote herself to it.

Thank you so much for the translations!

Originally Posted by haguruma

At least now the EP7 manga is also going into a little bit more fine-tuning, as did the EP8 manga from the very beginning.

Yes, finally Ep 7 is giving us something to work with.

Originally Posted by haguruma

And I am trying to push myself (with my very...veeeeeryyyyy limited travel-laptop) through translating a bit more of EP8 for people interested in it. It really brings some more neat points to light if you really concentrate on the text...like this here:

Spoiler for EP8 manga chapter16:

I don't remember if and how the game framed that particular scene, but I do like how much the manga also uses visual storytelling to impart elements of the story. Like how it becomes clear that, while the content of the diary is the truth, it is also something that Eva clearly is not happy about and likely painted by her emotions of that day.

Thank you so much for this translation also. Yes, Ep 8 is doing a rather wonderful job at this. They're all very expressive. They're rather awesome. Really, I love how Natsumi Kei improved her style. Ep 8 has became really emotionally involving just by watching at the pictures.

[Captain Bluebeard]

Originally Posted by GoldenLand

It's good to have the solutions for ep 1 confirmed, but at the same time it's a little sad (nostalgic-sad?). Lots of people had already worked out what the solutions must be. Even Ryukishi with his reluctance to tell all is giving us the solutions now. Well, it was inevitable.

I also feel like that actually, but I think it is something that really had to happen. It's not fair to expect people to invest so much thought in a work and then not give them a conclusive answer. Sure, EP7 does confirm the correct answers if you've worked out as much, but it doesn't explicitly explain the tricks and let you confirm your theory for certain.

Though Ryukishi's reluctance is sort of justificed because, yeah, the people who didn't think and just waited around for the answer to show up will also be rewarded which will be unfair to those who did think... but I think not letting them check if their thinking did bear fruit in the end is crueler.

Originally Posted by haguruma

I don't remember if and how the game framed that particular scene, but I do like how much the manga also uses visual storytelling to impart elements of the story. Like how it becomes clear that, while the content of the diary is the truth, it is also something that Eva clearly is not happy about and likely painted by her emotions of that day.

Wow, thanks a lot for this!

As far as I recall, the dialogues are exactly the same in the Visual Novel, but the illustrations do highlight the characters' emotional state (troll loli-Ange!!!!!). I really love how Battler's expression is 'oh no!' and Eva brings her hands to her mouth as soon as she realizes what is happening.

Originally Posted by jjblue1

because... blue hair? Really?)

You..... should.... not have said that!!!!!!!

Actually, Bernkastel's hair color isn't really that outrageous because she's a meta 100% fictional character. I say, for an "anime", Umineko's hair choices seem to be surprisingly realistic.