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Aquaman OS · 2013-06-21, 11:16

In Durandal's mind Kira wouldn't be able to do anything at all with Lacus gone. Even if he swore vengence and to follow Durandal to the ends of the earth to kill him his one man crusade wouldn't get very far in a Murasame by himself.

Same with Athrun. He was totally obvious that the attack ever happened until he met Kira that one day, which would not have happened had AA not interfered in that battle, which also wouldn't have happened if Kira didn't have his super MS and battleship still in storage.

And even if Athrun did turn on him, Durandal had a plan for that. It was called Shinn Asuka, who eliminated both Kira and Athrun when they turned on Durandal and required a Lacus Faction save to keep them alive and rearm them, which would not happen if Lacus was dead.

So really Durandal thinks he had everything covered. The only thing that really ruined his plans was Clyne Faction having all their stuff hidden and ready for use and Lacus moblizing an army against him.

Of course if Lacus died for real Kira would have taken Freedom and unleashed a swath of vengence against Zaft, and probably wouldn't have been quite so nice about it. But Durandal doesn't think he still has Freedom so it wasn't something he considered.

quagmire · 2013-06-21, 11:26

Durandel had to figure that Kira still had resources even if Freedom was destroyed. The Archangel and Eternal disappeared. He had to figure he still had those ships. We don't know when exactly Terminal jacked the SF, IJ, and the DOMs( at least their data since the info on where they originated is disputed).

He may have thought he had his bases covered, but I would have killed Kira too knowing they were together or settling for one if they were separated.

Rising Dragon · 2013-06-21, 11:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by quagmire

I thought that was a 00 trait......

No. Shiho, like Miguel and Heine, is a celebrity guest star voice actor. She's done lines in games and drama tracks, but refused to do lines for the anime proper... and as such her character is still alive, unlike the two T.M. Revolution lads.

Tak · 2013-06-21, 11:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

Of course if Lacus died for real Kira would have taken Freedom and unleashed a swath of vengence against Zaft, and probably wouldn't have been quite so nice about it. But Durandal doesn't think he still has Freedom so it wasn't something he considered.

Possible alternative route!

We've seen Kira go berserk before, and it often ended in a bloody mess. The battousai of Gundam didn't start off playing nice. Imagine if Lacus died before the first intervention event... hmmm

I wonder if FATkuda is a closeted Kenshin fan, there are many parallels...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

No. Shiho, like Miguel and Heine, is a celebrity guest star voice actor. She's done lines in games and drama tracks, but refused to do lines for the anime proper... and as such her character is still alive, unlike the two T.M. Revolution lads.

Then there is Vivian Hsu's character. Poor Aisha. But there you have it. A celebrity voicing said character will only bring said character ultimate demise. Good thing Shiho had been replaced by a veteran VA (Makiko Omoto) as opposed to an actual celebrity (Nami Tamaki). Nonetheless, I am in no mood to jinx her current, living status.

- Tak

quagmire · 2013-06-21, 11:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

No. Shiho, like Miguel and Heine, is a celebrity guest star voice actor. She's done lines in games and drama tracks, but refused to do lines for the anime proper... and as such her character is still alive, unlike the two T.M. Revolution lads.

Ah....

00 had a nasty habit of people dying when they started to talk more..... Howard started to talk more, boom dead soon after. Daryl started to talk more..... Boom dead soon after. Lichty getting more involved, dead soon after.

Tak · 2013-06-21, 11:46

But our worries may be unwarranted, since its improbable that she die now, judging by this:

Spoiler for The ending picture:

- Tak

monster · 2013-06-21, 11:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaito-kid

I agree, The original shot made more sense. It's not like he is seeing anything new here.

I don't think Kira has ever seen anybody killing themselves, let alone multiple people.

Anyway, I think both reactions are fine. They're both temporary reactions as the Birdy scene afterward showed.

S.Freedom · 2013-06-21, 12:47

@Taki Yeah and that's the only time she's seen in Destiny. And a special edition no less. Meaning they couldn't bother to show her in the anime proper. Which is my main complaint. We know she's with Yzak and Dearka. But she's never actually shown doing anything in series. Hell I'd have settled for a reaction shot of her when Yzak decided to help the Eternal at the end.

Tak · 2013-06-21, 12:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by S.Freedom

@Taki Yeah and that's the only time she's seen in Destiny. And a special edition no less. Meaning they couldn't bother to show her in the anime proper. Which is my main complaint. We know she's with Yzak and Dearka. But she's never actually shown doing anything in series. Hell I'd have settled for a reaction shot of her when Yzak decided to help the Eternal at the end.

Well, the main concern we had in regards to the original was if she had any lines... any lines at all, she would have found herself listed on FATkuda's Death-Note.

But, given my previous screenshot, she is clearly alive & kicking by the end of Destiny (and there are MSV stories to go with it, too). So lets see what the Remaster edition would do for us

Maybe we might get lucky.

- Tak

S.Freedom · 2013-06-21, 13:15

Yeah I know, it's just annoying that we know she exists but didn't see her do anything. Not even a side comment from Yzak or Dearka about how she's doing or how she's torn EA forces to shreds.

monster · 2013-06-21, 13:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by S.Freedom

Yeah I know, it's just annoying that we know she exists but didn't see her do anything. Not even a side comment from Yzak or Dearka about how she's doing or how she's torn EA forces to shreds.

Yzak and Dearka barely have speaking lines of their own. It would be pointless to use whatever they have on an unused character.

kaito-kid · 2013-06-21, 14:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by quagmire

I shouldn't have implied that Durandel knew about Freedom's restoration. I meant did he expect Kira just to accept that she was assassinated and not get involved in some form or fashion? What about Athrun? I know he dismissed the idea when they met up in episode 24 that Durandel was involved and it was the terrorists, but if the attempt was successful, he would have pushed Durandel more.....

Didn't seem to be a good plan.

When you have so much controle and so much power, a little bit of arrogance is acceptable, don't you think?

He knew a lot of things about Kira even before the start of Destiny, but He never met Kira in person, so he wouldn't know anything about his character.

Quote:

Originally Posted by monster

I don't think Kira has ever seen anybody killing themselves, let alone multiple people.

Anyway, I think both reactions are fine. They're both temporary reactions as the Birdy scene afterward showed.

Well I meant death in general.
But I guess, maybe he didn't expect the ASH's to self destruct.

Aquaman OS · 2013-06-21, 15:07

Durandal was very arrogant. Once Freedom was gone and Athrun seemed dead he basically assumed he'd won. All he had to do was take out an idiot commanded Orb and the world was as good as his, even if the real Lacus wanted to object she'd have no help. Her ace pilots were dead and her main ally nation would have been a conquered territory.

Kira and Athrun popping up with new Gundam's and saving Orb took him totally by a loop, even moreso when the real Lacus popped up just in time to interrupt Meer's slandering of Orb.

Skye629 · 2013-06-21, 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tak

I wonder if FATkuda is a closeted Kenshin fan, there are many parallels...
- Tak

Wouldn't be surprised, Kenshin is really popular

BTW guys, what platform is the SRW games for? If can play those I may be willing to give em a shot due to the improved characters

Aquaman OS · 2013-06-21, 19:55

That depends exactly which one you're looking for. The one that every one claims "fixed" the series is SRW Z, which is for PS2 (and region locked so you need a Japanese PS2) which goes through the entire story and makes more sense of it, and gives you an alternate route ending where Shinn decides not to support Durandal. It's also the longest and most detailed of the story arcs and has almost every unit including Saviour and Chaos and Abyss as enemy units. However a few characters are missing, or demoted to extremely minor NPCs because the game is voiced, and Cagalli's VA was still on the outs, and Heine's was too expensive, and Dearka's wasn't important enough to bring in for a handful of lines so they aren't really in it. Also if you like Kira you're kind of out of luck as it's a Shinn focused game.

It also has the Angel Down stage involve both halves of the cast fighting each other.

SRW K is for DS and region free so if you have any DS you can play it. But the game pretty much rushes through Destiny before the game is half over. You play 3 stages basically, Berlin Angel Down and finale. You play as Kira's side until after the finale, at which point Shinn and Luna join and overall the story is mostly ignored. But it has Cagalli, Heine, Dearka, Andy and Hilda as PC's which Z did not.
It also has Stargazer, but that plot is resolved in a single stage.

SRW L is also for DS and does the Destiny story, with the difference that Kira's side doesn't antagonise Shinn's so the friction between the casts is removed entirely. Instead Kira's side mostly hides out and Shinn's side gets the focus. Shinn again turns on Durandal and this time it happens by default. Like with K nearly all the characters are in. But because it uses K's sprites all the units that weren't in K aren't in L which means Athrun has no Saviour and has to use a spare Zaku till he gets IJ and Chaos and Abyss aren't in, so Sting is always in a Destroy and Auel never appears. The removal of the friction between casts kind of kills the tension of the story, and as it is alot of the plot is still skipped so it's not quite on the level of Z1.

Z2 for PSP (region free) and UX for 3ds (Not region free) also have Destiny, but the plot's finished before the game starts which means you only get Kira Athrun Shinn and Luna and they have no real plot.

aeriolewinters · 2013-06-21, 20:17

@Tak: I wouldn't be surprised if someone who claims to be Fllay's brother wants Kira's head if you're right of Fukuda treating Kira like space Kenshin.

kaito-kid · 2013-06-21, 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by aeriolewinters

@Tak: I wouldn't be surprised if someone who claims to be Fllay's brother wants Kira's head if you're right of Fukuda treating Kira like space Kenshin.

lol..
That actually might have worked as a subplot. Flay's super rich brother from Blue Cosmos going after Kira and co.. It's would have been better then nothing.

aeriolewinters · 2013-06-21, 20:43

Quote:

lol..
That actually might have worked as a subplot. Flay's super rich brother from Blue Cosmos going after Kira and co.. It's would have been better then nothing.

well if it's a 1:1 Jinchuu arc copy, then the fans aren't ready for Kira blankly staring at nothing for minutes on end. (seriously, Kenshin looked like he was petrified when he thought Kaoru was dead, and Enishi Killed her.)

Obelisk ze Tormentor · 2013-06-21, 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaito-kid

lol..
That actually might have worked as a subplot. Flay's super rich brother from Blue Cosmos going after Kira and co.. It's would have been better then nothing.

Then we’ll have a Spiderman Gundam, Army-boy Gundam, Okama Gundam and Puppet-master Gundam which are part of the newly created “Jinchu Gundam series” as the Bro’s henchmen

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aeriolewinters

well if it's a 1:1 Jinchuu arc copy, then the fans aren't ready for Kira blankly staring at nothing for minutes on end. (seriously, Kenshin looked like he was petrified when he thought Kaoru was dead, and Enishi Killed her.)

It doesn’t have to be 1:1. They could just kidnapped Lacus so that makes Kira determined instead of being EMO. Or, go with the 1:1 way and "kill" Lacus but make Kira realized that the Bro faked Lacus's death a lot sooner

.

Tak · 2013-06-21, 21:29

You know guys, I've always thought the opposite would occur. If Fllay had a brother, he wouldn't swear revenge on Kira, instead, it'd go something like this:

Fllay's bro: Kira, I am Fllay's brother, I am sure you remember me!

Kira: I... what happened to your sister was...

Fllay's bro: Say no more! You have done humanity a great favor!

Kira: NYUH!?

Fllay's bro: You have no idea how difficult it was to live with that psycho bitch!

Kira: Don't remind me...

- Tak

2013-06-21, 11:46	Link #7806
Tak Catholic = Cat addiction? Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: MURICA!!	But our worries may be unwarranted, since its improbable that she die now, judging by this: Spoiler for The ending picture: - Tak __________________ BLESSED IS OUR GOD, THE LORD OF MIRACLES, FOR HE HAS SUPPLIED AN ENTIRE BATTALION WITH JUST FIVE ROUNDS OF AMMO AND TWO GRENADES!! Remember, the toes you step on today may be connected to the @ss you have to kiss tomorrow. Last edited by Tak; 2013-06-21 at 12:32.

2013-06-21, 20:17	Link #7816
aeriolewinters Photomancy Experiments Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Balanga City, Bataan, Philippines	@Tak: I wouldn't be surprised if someone who claims to be Fllay's brother wants Kira's head if you're right of Fukuda treating Kira like space Kenshin. __________________

2013-06-21, 21:29	Link #7820
Tak Catholic = Cat addiction? Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: MURICA!!	You know guys, I've always thought the opposite would occur. If Fllay had a brother, he wouldn't swear revenge on Kira, instead, it'd go something like this: Fllay's bro: Kira, I am Fllay's brother, I am sure you remember me! Kira: I... what happened to your sister was... Fllay's bro: Say no more! You have done humanity a great favor! Kira: NYUH!? Fllay's bro: You have no idea how difficult it was to live with that psycho bitch! Kira: Don't remind me... - Tak __________________ BLESSED IS OUR GOD, THE LORD OF MIRACLES, FOR HE HAS SUPPLIED AN ENTIRE BATTALION WITH JUST FIVE ROUNDS OF AMMO AND TWO GRENADES!! Remember, the toes you step on today may be connected to the @ss you have to kiss tomorrow.

2013-06-21, 11:16	Link #7801
Aquaman OS Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008	In Durandal's mind Kira wouldn't be able to do anything at all with Lacus gone. Even if he swore vengence and to follow Durandal to the ends of the earth to kill him his one man crusade wouldn't get very far in a Murasame by himself. Same with Athrun. He was totally obvious that the attack ever happened until he met Kira that one day, which would not have happened had AA not interfered in that battle, which also wouldn't have happened if Kira didn't have his super MS and battleship still in storage. And even if Athrun did turn on him, Durandal had a plan for that. It was called Shinn Asuka, who eliminated both Kira and Athrun when they turned on Durandal and required a Lacus Faction save to keep them alive and rearm them, which would not happen if Lacus was dead. So really Durandal thinks he had everything covered. The only thing that really ruined his plans was Clyne Faction having all their stuff hidden and ready for use and Lacus moblizing an army against him. Of course if Lacus died for real Kira would have taken Freedom and unleashed a swath of vengence against Zaft, and probably wouldn't have been quite so nice about it. But Durandal doesn't think he still has Freedom so it wasn't something he considered.

2013-06-21, 11:26	Link #7802
quagmire Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010	Durandel had to figure that Kira still had resources even if Freedom was destroyed. The Archangel and Eternal disappeared. He had to figure he still had those ships. We don't know when exactly Terminal jacked the SF, IJ, and the DOMs( at least their data since the info on where they originated is disputed). He may have thought he had his bases covered, but I would have killed Kira too knowing they were together or settling for one if they were separated.

2013-06-21, 12:47	Link #7808
S.Freedom Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: On the edge of insanity Age: 44	@Taki Yeah and that's the only time she's seen in Destiny. And a special edition no less. Meaning they couldn't bother to show her in the anime proper. Which is my main complaint. We know she's with Yzak and Dearka. But she's never actually shown doing anything in series. Hell I'd have settled for a reaction shot of her when Yzak decided to help the Eternal at the end.

2013-06-21, 13:15	Link #7810
S.Freedom Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: On the edge of insanity Age: 44	Yeah I know, it's just annoying that we know she exists but didn't see her do anything. Not even a side comment from Yzak or Dearka about how she's doing or how she's torn EA forces to shreds.

2013-06-21, 15:07	Link #7813
Aquaman OS Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008	Durandal was very arrogant. Once Freedom was gone and Athrun seemed dead he basically assumed he'd won. All he had to do was take out an idiot commanded Orb and the world was as good as his, even if the real Lacus wanted to object she'd have no help. Her ace pilots were dead and her main ally nation would have been a conquered territory. Kira and Athrun popping up with new Gundam's and saving Orb took him totally by a loop, even moreso when the real Lacus popped up just in time to interrupt Meer's slandering of Orb.

2013-06-21, 19:55	Link #7815
Aquaman OS Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008	That depends exactly which one you're looking for. The one that every one claims "fixed" the series is SRW Z, which is for PS2 (and region locked so you need a Japanese PS2) which goes through the entire story and makes more sense of it, and gives you an alternate route ending where Shinn decides not to support Durandal. It's also the longest and most detailed of the story arcs and has almost every unit including Saviour and Chaos and Abyss as enemy units. However a few characters are missing, or demoted to extremely minor NPCs because the game is voiced, and Cagalli's VA was still on the outs, and Heine's was too expensive, and Dearka's wasn't important enough to bring in for a handful of lines so they aren't really in it. Also if you like Kira you're kind of out of luck as it's a Shinn focused game. It also has the Angel Down stage involve both halves of the cast fighting each other. SRW K is for DS and region free so if you have any DS you can play it. But the game pretty much rushes through Destiny before the game is half over. You play 3 stages basically, Berlin Angel Down and finale. You play as Kira's side until after the finale, at which point Shinn and Luna join and overall the story is mostly ignored. But it has Cagalli, Heine, Dearka, Andy and Hilda as PC's which Z did not. It also has Stargazer, but that plot is resolved in a single stage. SRW L is also for DS and does the Destiny story, with the difference that Kira's side doesn't antagonise Shinn's so the friction between the casts is removed entirely. Instead Kira's side mostly hides out and Shinn's side gets the focus. Shinn again turns on Durandal and this time it happens by default. Like with K nearly all the characters are in. But because it uses K's sprites all the units that weren't in K aren't in L which means Athrun has no Saviour and has to use a spare Zaku till he gets IJ and Chaos and Abyss aren't in, so Sting is always in a Destroy and Auel never appears. The removal of the friction between casts kind of kills the tension of the story, and as it is alot of the plot is still skipped so it's not quite on the level of Z1. Z2 for PSP (region free) and UX for 3ds (Not region free) also have Destiny, but the plot's finished before the game starts which means you only get Kira Athrun Shinn and Luna and they have no real plot.