AnimeSuki Forums

Awakened · 2008-10-26, 11:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by revan5

I know they have two right now (Tabitha & Galatea), so who's the third that they currently have? Cynthia?

I would have to say, yes, Clare is what the Organization wants, but she isn't exactly going to come willingly. So if you were the Organization, how would you capture somebody of Clare's level? The only way is either with their number one claymore or with an entire army of "special warriors" through armed force means.

The only alternative is they capture Raki and tell her what to do through threats to him. In other words, her love/affection for Raki will be used as her controlling agent.

Anybody else have any theories on how they would attempt to capture the fabulous 4 assuming they find out about partial-awakening?

I was just thinking about that.

If Clare and Co. tries to rescue Renee, there is a chance that Clare might partially awaken. If that happens she will be vulnerable (depleted yoki). All the Org need to do is send in Alicia and Beth to swop her up.

If that happens, there will have to be a rescue Clare arc. Cynthia will use her dog tracking skills to track Alicia and Beth, Uma will run back to Ramona to get help. Galatea will drop her nun outfit and put Clarice and Miata in charge of Ramona defense. Miria's army will get their first chance to show what they can do.

Awakened · 2008-10-26, 11:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by KillerYomaFromSpace

aaah, I just had a horrible vision... Fully awakened Clare soul linked with the 4 of them

I think you should get your eyes checked. Your visions are too imaginative.

->

--

hell88 · 2008-10-26, 11:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awakened

Galatea will drop her nun outfit

Can't wait to see that happen.

Sordes Pilosus · 2008-10-26, 12:50

Faction War Summery:

This post is a Summery Based around each Faction currently on the Island and is based on information available up to Chapter 84. Some speculation based on Manga Direction and Likly events is however also included but will be noted and easy to spot. This summery will also use two Distinct stats to mark a Factions Strenght, that is Military Power and War Potensial. Military Power bases itself around how much general strenght a faction has, basicly how much firepower and strenght it has available. War Potensial however determins the potensial to a faction, basicly what options of strategy and methods available to them to fullfill a mission or task. Along with these two a smal summery of Strenghts and Weakness's to a faction will be listed, in some cases there will be alot of missing info like the situation around Isley as he has not been shown after the timeskip, but will instead base itself on his strenghts and the situation known to involve him. The Grades used in Military Power and War Potensial is ranked from F to S, a * behind a stat indicates a note that goes along with the stat and the stat needs to be read with the content of the note in mind.

Listed Factions:
- The Org.
- Riful
- Isley
- Ghosts
- Dragonkin
- Other's

The List above outlines the factions presently involved in the situation on the Island, most will be well aware off all the groups except "Other" that containts Chips that currently cant be placed in a Faction yet but holds posibility to change ballance of power. The questions regarding Irene being alive, Racilla, Pricilla etc belongs under this Other's group. Its just outlined here for the sake of easy understanding since Other's is the last group and some might react to for instance Pricilla not being listed under Isley or Racilla under Riful as of yet. However without further deley here is the first summery:

The Org.
Military Power: S
War Potensial: C

Strenghts: The Organisation's is the faction with the highest degree of Military Power, with a large number of Claymore's, the Ability to create more alongside it being aligned to one of the Main two sides on the Mainland offer's its the broadest and largest amount of Military Power. They also have Alicia completed which makes them able to hold of either Riful or Isley in a 1 vs 1 Situation and the extra Claymore's holds the option of countering this ballance in the Org's Favor.

Weakness: The Organisation however is also the factino with the lowest degree of War Potensial, this is because they have a very broad area they need to protect and Alicia can not be deployed everywhere at a short notice, and in a War with several factions Alica can not be moved offensivly at any time either making the Org take a very deffensive standpoint, normal Claymore's is also generaly weaker then Awakened and no match against Abyssals making the Org the most vulnerable to be "slowly grinded or picked off little by little" in a war. Alicia also has a fatal weakness in her reliance on Beth making any interuption very risky making Alica a risky card if not properly used. Training new Claymore's of a High level also takes quite alot of time, so replacing "strong claymore's" takes time making the Org the most vulnerable out of any faction as a result.

Riful:
Military Power: A
War Potensial: B

Strenghts: Riful has a strong allied in Duph, and together they are capable of doing combat against multiple foes at the same time due to their awakened forms. Riful is also a very active player which is the main reason for her high war potensial. She currently posses's Raciella's remains but the result of that is stil unclear but can drasticly tip things in her Favor making her the strongest Faction if things turns out well.

Weakness: Riful while having a strong allie in Duph she also has her main weakness in him. She is emotionaly attached to a very stupid awakened, this is possible to place Riful in a difficult spot if facing foes on more fronts where herself is forced to fight the strongest oposition. Riful is also overly abisious making her more likly to make mistakes and she has been seen starting to lose her calm that made her very strong in the first part of the manga. Her faction however is also very smal, her need for allies is great but the availability seams limited and she hasent been shown having more forces available making it a Two vs alot situation, making her the most vulnerable to sneak attacks or combat on multiple fronts.

Isley:
Military Power: A*
War Potensial : B*
(Notes: Isley has been seen to be a commander, meaning he is the type to activly gather forces, his hold on Pricilla is also currently unknown drasticly making him a bit unstabil in terms of potensial or posibilities.)

Strenghts: A good commander with a tactical mindframe, seams to be using Pricilla in the first part for his own gains. He is calm and very patient making him unlikly to make foolish moves or risks. The liklyhood of a new while smaler army to support him is also a large posibility with Isley, however fully placing him in the grid is hard before more information about him now after timeskip is revealed.

Weakness: Pricilla, he might be just a General to her and have no ambision of his own. This means he is very vulnerable to Pricillas whims and this might be his downfall. He also is the most passive of all factions, after his advance pretimeskip he seams to have settled down without any large desires to do anything for a while yet. But as about him after timeskip is nonexistant to date accurate information is hard.

Ghosts:
Military Power: B
War Potensial: S

Strenghts: The Ghosts is the group with by far the largest war potensial, likly more then twice as large as any other faction. The reason behind this is their Mobility, unlikle other factions they are free to move around pretty much as they please allowing for covert operations on a grand scale, taking even a Abyssal head in their unaware moment or their strong allies is far from unlikly. They also posess a information advantage regarding other factions. While being able to "spy" on others without being detected they can stage attacks and perform tactics other factions have no chance off.

Weakness: The hard part of the chosts is that their "just Claymore's" and none is currently strong enough even in a group to take down a Abyssal Class oponent, meaning while they are strong in the Sneaky department and hard to take out, they have a very hard time actualy taking out the big foes stil. They are also very vulnerable to losses or injury compared to other factions. Awakeneds Regernate well, Org can replace their Claymore's but replacing members of the Ghosts is much harder, not many will belive the "thruth" about the mainland easily either or wait to listen to the story. Also they have the weakest mentality by wanting to protect as many as possible with their limited resources.

Dragonkin:
Military Power: D
War Potensial: A

Strenghts: Sabotage, the liklyhood of Infiltration within the ranks of the Org and perhaps even the Ghosts is available to them. They also hold the most favorable cards for their own wishes of the whole Island going up in flames as a result of the Org's unsucessfull results. Their basicly the main player and the ones pulling strings as it suits them with the least amount of threat directed against themselves. But since Sabotage can drasticly change ballance of war for either faction (Claymore's defecting) or (Awakens) or simular can cause large changes in power ballances around making their war potensial quite high.

Weakness: Direct Military Power, the ability to direct action is limited. While they likly have perhaps 2 or 3 Claymore's and some other operates their forces are extremly limited and their actual military power aswell. Without sucessfull manipulation of events its little that will go in their favor making them not very much in control of events as they would have liked.

Other's:
Military Power: S*
War Potensial: A
(Notes: With two Abyssal class posibilities up for the taking the warpower could be considered double S, but since this faction aint united as one force but a collective of forces around like random Awakends around etc its not a collective force.)

Strenghts: A few Awakened supporting Riful, or Racillia awakening would change things alot for her, the Ghosts rescuing Racillia and Renee would even bring alot in their favor again. Or what actions Pricilla with Raki will take from now on can change the tide of ballance regardless where they end up. Making the Other's likly a deciding factor in how events will play out.

Weakness: Pricilla havent eaten in ages, and she has always been unstabil making her a strange and difficult card. Racillia can go so many ways if she even will awake is unknown. And as mentioned this is not a collective force, since its not unified alot of it save the big elements in this group will be picked off without doing much good. But its potensial for other groups is quite strong, but its no real faction of its own.

______________________________________

I Hope this post have been interesting to read and usefull for some. Even hope it will help spark some discussions regarding factions or their situation and function as a base for sutch discussions. Anyway hope youve enjoyed reading this post.

- Sordes

Awakened · 2008-10-26, 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sordes Pilosus

Faction War Summery:

I Hope this post have been interesting to read and usefull for some. Even hope it will help spark some discussions regarding factions or their situation and function as a base for sutch discussions. Anyway hope youve enjoyed reading this post.

- Sordes

I enjoyed it.

Edit: Yagi has given the ghost a priest (healer). They might not beable to come back from the dead, but this will alow them to take a lot of punishment.

Gangsta Spanksta · 2008-10-26, 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awakened

I enjoyed it.

Edit: Yagi has given the ghost a priest (healer). They might not beable to come back from the dead, but this will alow them to take a lot of punishment.

Ah priest being healers thats an RPG concept, but well this is a Manga. That's kind of like saying Monks have martial arts abilities just because they appear in the story.

So far, the priests have put on bandages the wrong way.

That is unless you are talking about the 'priest' being a claymore with healing abilities. :d

Awakened · 2008-10-26, 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gangsta Spanksta

Ah priest being healers thats an RPG concept, but well this is a Manga. That's kind of like saying Monks have martial arts abilities just because they appear in the story.

So far, the priests have put on bandages the wrong way.

That is unless you are talking about the 'priest' being a claymore with healing abilities. :d

Am talking about Cynthia or Thabeta, I fogot with one of them can heal.

MisterJB · 2008-10-26, 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awakened

Am talking about Cynthia or Thabeta, I fogot with one of them can heal.

Cynthia

Tabhita is the "eye" of the Ghosts

revan5 · 2008-10-26, 22:30

One thing I've been wondering is just what the capabilities of an "Eye" is. Sure we know what Galatea & Tabitha's technical abilities are, but can you quantify them?

I say this because we keep listing the "Eyes" as these great advantages and yet we have no idea just what their sensing ranges are nor how big the island is. We know Galatea can pick up on Abyssal-class youki from a very great distance but we've never once had a map with a scale on it. I suppose Yagi does this to keep things fluid for the plot, but still, if we really want to evaluate the Ghosts fabled "Eyes", this would be a good thing to know.

Does anyone else think that perhaps for the Ghosts their "Eyes" will not be as useful as they could be? What I mean is the Ghosts seem to be destined to fight Abyssal Ones...how much could an "Eye" like Tabitha, Renee or Galatea really help (with exception of Alicia)?

Awakened · 2008-10-26, 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by revan5

One thing I've been wondering is just what the capabilities of an "Eye" is. Sure we know what Galatea & Tabitha's technical abilities are, but can you quantify them?

I say this because we keep listing the "Eyes" as these great advantages and yet we have no idea just what their sensing ranges are nor how big the island is. We know Galatea can pick up on Abyssal-class youki from a very great distance but we've never once had a map with a scale on it. I suppose Yagi does this to keep things fluid for the plot, but still, if we really want to evaluate the Ghosts fabled "Eyes", this would be a good thing to know.

Does anyone else think that perhaps for the Ghosts their "Eyes" will not be as useful as they could be? What I mean is the Ghosts seem to be destined to fight Abyssal Ones...how much could an "Eye" like Tabitha, Renee or Galatea really help (with exception of Alicia)?

The eyes have the potential to be the most powerfull Claymores. They can use their powers to overcome many disadvatages. One example, Clare #47 taking on Ophelia #3 I think.

Clare, premptive sencing
Galatea, manipulation
Cynthia, healing
Tabitha?
Renee, ?manipulation

Plus eyes can give you a stratigic advatage.

revan5 · 2008-10-27, 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sordes Pilosus

Faction War Summery:

This post is a Summery Based around each Faction currently on the Island and is based on information available up to Chapter 84. Some speculation based on Manga Direction and Likly events is however also included but will be noted and easy to spot. This summery will also use two Distinct stats to mark a Factions Strenght, that is Military Power and War Potensial. Military Power bases itself around how much general strenght a faction has, basicly how much firepower and strenght it has available. War Potensial however determins the potensial to a faction, basicly what options of strategy and methods available to them to fullfill a mission or task. Along with these two a smal summery of Strenghts and Weakness's to a faction will be listed, in some cases there will be alot of missing info like the situation around Isley as he has not been shown after the timeskip, but will instead base itself on his strenghts and the situation known to involve him. The Grades used in Military Power and War Potensial is ranked from F to S, a * behind a stat indicates a note that goes along with the stat and the stat needs to be read with the content of the note in mind.

Listed Factions:
- The Org.
- Riful
- Isley
- Ghosts
- Dragonkin
- Other's

The List above outlines the factions presently involved in the situation on the Island, most will be well aware off all the groups except "Other" that containts Chips that currently cant be placed in a Faction yet but holds posibility to change ballance of power. The questions regarding Irene being alive, Racilla, Pricilla etc belongs under this Other's group. Its just outlined here for the sake of easy understanding since Other's is the last group and some might react to for instance Pricilla not being listed under Isley or Racilla under Riful as of yet. However without further deley here is the first summery:

The Org.
Military Power: S
War Potensial: C

Strenghts: The Organisation's is the faction with the highest degree of Military Power, with a large number of Claymore's, the Ability to create more alongside it being aligned to one of the Main two sides on the Mainland offer's its the broadest and largest amount of Military Power. They also have Alicia completed which makes them able to hold of either Riful or Isley in a 1 vs 1 Situation and the extra Claymore's holds the option of countering this ballance in the Org's Favor.

Weakness: The Organisation however is also the factino with the lowest degree of War Potensial, this is because they have a very broad area they need to protect and Alicia can not be deployed everywhere at a short notice, and in a War with several factions Alica can not be moved offensivly at any time either making the Org take a very deffensive standpoint, normal Claymore's is also generaly weaker then Awakened and no match against Abyssals making the Org the most vulnerable to be "slowly grinded or picked off little by little" in a war. Alicia also has a fatal weakness in her reliance on Beth making any interuption very risky making Alica a risky card if not properly used. Training new Claymore's of a High level also takes quite alot of time, so replacing "strong claymore's" takes time making the Org the most vulnerable out of any faction as a result.

Riful:
Military Power: A
War Potensial: B

Strenghts: Riful has a strong allied in Duph, and together they are capable of doing combat against multiple foes at the same time due to their awakened forms. Riful is also a very active player which is the main reason for her high war potensial. She currently posses's Raciella's remains but the result of that is stil unclear but can drasticly tip things in her Favor making her the strongest Faction if things turns out well.

Weakness: Riful while having a strong allie in Duph she also has her main weakness in him. She is emotionaly attached to a very stupid awakened, this is possible to place Riful in a difficult spot if facing foes on more fronts where herself is forced to fight the strongest oposition. Riful is also overly abisious making her more likly to make mistakes and she has been seen starting to lose her calm that made her very strong in the first part of the manga. Her faction however is also very smal, her need for allies is great but the availability seams limited and she hasent been shown having more forces available making it a Two vs alot situation, making her the most vulnerable to sneak attacks or combat on multiple fronts.

Isley:
Military Power: A*
War Potensial : B*
(Notes: Isley has been seen to be a commander, meaning he is the type to activly gather forces, his hold on Pricilla is also currently unknown drasticly making him a bit unstabil in terms of potensial or posibilities.)

Strenghts: A good commander with a tactical mindframe, seams to be using Pricilla in the first part for his own gains. He is calm and very patient making him unlikly to make foolish moves or risks. The liklyhood of a new while smaler army to support him is also a large posibility with Isley, however fully placing him in the grid is hard before more information about him now after timeskip is revealed.

Weakness: Pricilla, he might be just a General to her and have no ambision of his own. This means he is very vulnerable to Pricillas whims and this might be his downfall. He also is the most passive of all factions, after his advance pretimeskip he seams to have settled down without any large desires to do anything for a while yet. But as about him after timeskip is nonexistant to date accurate information is hard.

Ghosts:
Military Power: B
War Potensial: S

Strenghts: The Ghosts is the group with by far the largest war potensial, likly more then twice as large as any other faction. The reason behind this is their Mobility, unlikle other factions they are free to move around pretty much as they please allowing for covert operations on a grand scale, taking even a Abyssal head in their unaware moment or their strong allies is far from unlikly. They also posess a information advantage regarding other factions. While being able to "spy" on others without being detected they can stage attacks and perform tactics other factions have no chance off.

Weakness: The hard part of the chosts is that their "just Claymore's" and none is currently strong enough even in a group to take down a Abyssal Class oponent, meaning while they are strong in the Sneaky department and hard to take out, they have a very hard time actualy taking out the big foes stil. They are also very vulnerable to losses or injury compared to other factions. Awakeneds Regernate well, Org can replace their Claymore's but replacing members of the Ghosts is much harder, not many will belive the "thruth" about the mainland easily either or wait to listen to the story. Also they have the weakest mentality by wanting to protect as many as possible with their limited resources.

Dragonkin:
Military Power: D
War Potensial: A

Strenghts: Sabotage, the liklyhood of Infiltration within the ranks of the Org and perhaps even the Ghosts is available to them. They also hold the most favorable cards for their own wishes of the whole Island going up in flames as a result of the Org's unsucessfull results. Their basicly the main player and the ones pulling strings as it suits them with the least amount of threat directed against themselves. But since Sabotage can drasticly change ballance of war for either faction (Claymore's defecting) or (Awakens) or simular can cause large changes in power ballances around making their war potensial quite high.

Weakness: Direct Military Power, the ability to direct action is limited. While they likly have perhaps 2 or 3 Claymore's and some other operates their forces are extremly limited and their actual military power aswell. Without sucessfull manipulation of events its little that will go in their favor making them not very much in control of events as they would have liked.

Other's:
Military Power: S*
War Potensial: A
(Notes: With two Abyssal class posibilities up for the taking the warpower could be considered double S, but since this faction aint united as one force but a collective of forces around like random Awakends around etc its not a collective force.)

Strenghts: A few Awakened supporting Riful, or Racillia awakening would change things alot for her, the Ghosts rescuing Racillia and Renee would even bring alot in their favor again. Or what actions Pricilla with Raki will take from now on can change the tide of ballance regardless where they end up. Making the Other's likly a deciding factor in how events will play out.

Weakness: Pricilla havent eaten in ages, and she has always been unstabil making her a strange and difficult card. Racillia can go so many ways if she even will awake is unknown. And as mentioned this is not a collective force, since its not unified alot of it save the big elements in this group will be picked off without doing much good. But its potensial for other groups is quite strong, but its no real faction of its own.

______________________________________

I Hope this post have been interesting to read and usefull for some. Even hope it will help spark some discussions regarding factions or their situation and function as a base for sutch discussions. Anyway hope youve enjoyed reading this post.

- Sordes

Now that's the kind of devotion and effort I'd love to see from every poster, but I shouldn't get my hopes up!

Now then, you point out some good things here...namely war potential. The Ghosts have 3 individuals clearly with the potential to be #2 level (Claire, having killed two different awakened #2s now, is on track for Abyssal status sometime soon). If the Ghosts get a few more deserting Claymores, particularly any of the single digits, they might just have the equivalent amount of "firepower" of the entire Organization's gang of Claymores, including Alicia & Beth.

All that said, I wanted to flash a couple scenarios out there and see which you guys think most likely regarding the coming arc and the beginning of the Island War...

1) Claire & company rescues Renee BEFORE the awakening is successful, are pursued by Riful & Duff, and eventually wind up meeting Raki & Priscilla just as they have nowhere else left to run...

2) Claire & company rescues Renee right at the moment of awakening, and are pursued by Duff, whom they kill once they get farther away from the two Abyssal Ones fighting it out nearby. Renee tells them where she met Raki & they take off...they happen upon Raki just as the two Abyssal Ones have either made a truce or one has become master over the other and come after the group...

3) Claire and company raid Riful's lair amidst the awakening, drawing her out only for a new Abyssal One stronger than herself to awaken without her nearby. She leaves to confront it, they fight and beat Duff, killing him. Riful & new Abyssal One come after Ghosts for revenge just as they come upon Raki & Priscilla...

Now the next part is key...what happens when they meet Raki & Priscilla?

I) They're under attack from two Abyssal Ones and are rescued by Priscilla, who nearly dies until Isley intervenes...

2) They're under attack from two Abyssal Ones when Priscilla joins the fight, exhausting all sides...Claire waits until the opportune moment to strike when she is...
a) Stopped by Raki, who wants Claire to save Priscilla by making her the first Awakened Being to ever re-gain its human mind, thus becoming a partially awakened one like Claire
b) Stopped by Isley, which forces the Ghosts under her command to leave immediately, with or without Raki...

Well, you get the point. Write out any of your own ideas as to how this is going to play out. Anyways, a lot will be riding on inter-faction relations. Based on Riful's threat of payback on the Ghosts, I have to imagine she'll be coming after Claire & friends after a soon-to-happen intervention. But also based on relations, I'd say there is a strong possibility Raki might tell Priscilla to intervene, bringing about an Awakened Being "battle Royale".

My guess is that either Claire will immediately attempt to cut down Priscilla when she finds her...at which point Priscilla will either save herself or Raki will do it for her...except with Priscilla famished, she starts talking about wanting "guts" right at the inopportune moment...

So now it your turn guys...just what do you forsee happening, why, and how will it affect the outcome of the Island War?

KillerYomaFromSpace · 2008-10-27, 22:29

I learned that in Claymore, all predictions and theories are useless, because when you think that all the pieces are in the table, BANG!, Yagi brings in something like Raciella, absolutely nobody could have predicted that.

It's the way Claymore works, and one of the main reasons why I love it so much, it actually manages to surprise me unlike most of other things out there, I like to theorize, try to find out what happen next, and I like even more to be wrong when I do so.

but lets asume that there won't be new stuff, and I'm using what we have right now to speculate about some possible movements in the story

we've got several separated groups right now

-Miria and Thabita in Rabona (waiting for the others, and hopefully having fun ^^) but there is no evidence that they are in the church with the other 3

-Galatea, taking care of Clarice and Miata in the church of Rabona, Miria asked Galatea to protect them and help them with enemy movements, but she didn't tell her to join th crusade (the future of those 3 is a big mistery, like the nature of Miata and Clarice. so, something/someone must get them out of there)

. an event in Rabona is required, maybe a visit from an abyssal (Easley?) or bad news that forces them to move

-Helen and Deneve, aparently the least interesting group of all, may hold surprise. they may be the ones that encounters an abyssal too (Alicia?), or discover someting important and bring back news, they may also get kidnapped by the organization so they find out about partial awakening. forcing Rubel to make a move

-Cynthia, Yuma and Clare seem to be heading for Riful now, a battle that they can't win. I fear that Yuma is going to be the sacrifice.

-Raki and Priscila: they are not far from Riful, so they may be the key for Clare's survival, there is almost no doubt that those will be their allies. I also think that Priscila is meant to fight Raciella

-René: she is not willing to help Riful and she will try to escape or so it seems, and she have to deliver the message to Clare that Raki is looking for her, so Raciella's awakening may be delayed

-Raciella: (this one is problematic):

power level: here is a little problem, in Claymore 1 + 1 is not always 2, if it was that way, then Clare would be Nº1 right since the beginning, but for now, she just shows potential, so Raciella may be weaker than Riful at the beginning, so Riful does not kill her, then she shows her real potential when its already too late for Riful to kill her. o maybe René escapes, and Riful frustrated tries to awaken Raciella on her own, while praying for luck.

alignement: if she is too powerful = Evil (because her opponent would be Priscila), if she is not = may be good

memories: if she remembers everything, she may ally Riful to defeat Easley, (something similar was Luciela's last wish), she could also end up being truly evil and force Riful to be her slave instead of the opposite. if she doesn't remember then anything could happen

. but I think she will remember, and she will be smart, Raphaela is been in the manga for a long time now, and the story of the two sisters has much more develompent than what a powerful brainless minion would deserve.

-Org's Claymores: I think some may switch sides and join the ghosts, except Alicia and Beth

-The organization: if they kidnap Helen and Deneve, (two partially awakened) they may complete their objective or at least find out

-The other faction: if the organization completes their objective, Rubel may be able to call for a huge scale attack on the island to erase everyting before it gets out, bringing in the new race and there may be new future alliances. that will polarize the conflict in 2 huge factions

I think I've written so much that I lost track of it all in all the speculative posibilities spinning around in my head, but I don't feel like deleteing it, I'll just click the "submit Reply" button hoping for it to make any sense =P

Dean_the_Young · 2008-10-27, 22:51

Some of you might want to consider each sides objectives. This isn't just a battle to control a small island, after all. In fact, only one side seems outright interested in that.

Consider.

The Organization: really couldn't care less, because their objective is to use this island as a laboratory. As long as they can produce more and better claymores, and possibly even another controllable abyssal one, they come out ahead. Winning the war on the mainland is their goal.

The Ghosts don't care about the land, except in so much that people shouldn't become snack food. They're after the Organization while trying to make sure no Abyssal wins, but they themselves don't want control.

The Dragonkin don't want the island, or else they'd be fighting for it already. As long as the Organization loses, they win. Quite possibly/likely the Dragonkin have their abyssal-level dragons.

The Holy City of Rabona is merely concerned with its own protection. It's questionable if they have the manpower to go a conquering, and even if they did they can't match the upper-tier beasties.

Isley is a mystery, but if he had wanted he likely could have blitzed the rest of the island while he still had Priscilla (assuming he doesn't have her in reach now). But to date, he seems to have been more concerned with smashing any potential team-up that could defeat him.

Riful is the one who seems most concerned with the balance of power and status of lands, and even that is in reaction to Isley's actions. While she certainly seeks to take every advantage, whether it's a matter of power or merely of land remains to be seen.

FateAnomaly · 2008-10-28, 05:25

I think in the first place non of the ABs are interested in land. They have no interest in politics, economy or the likes. The top desire is survival and humans are merely food. As long as there is food and nothing is threatening them, they are fine with the situation. So all they need is an area with a population enough to sustain them.

Everything that Riful has done is to survive and not to take over the island. The Isley/Priscilla faction is way stronger than her. The org potential to create more Alicia and Beth is also much too dangerous. Thus she need a strong ally namely Raciela. She will go to war to kill Priscilla and the org but the ghost will probably be safe if they do not provoke her further. Also, i don't think that she really care too much about Dauf. Dauf is like a pet too her. She will protect him but not at the risk of her life. Dauf on the other hand probably worship her.

Isley imo is a true warrior (or knight). He means his word when he pledge allegiance to Priscilla and totally loyal to her even if she is somewhat mentally not quite there. He fought Luciela to pave the way for Priscilla safety at risk to his own life. It didn't really if he won or lost at that matter and he is prepare for it. If he died, Priscilla will definitely kill Luciela. (Priscilla is apparently very attached to her family members) If he won, then all is well.
Currently, i think he is lurking in the background observing the situation to see if there is anything threatening Priscilla. War is unlikely as his faction is apparently the strongest now.
(Or maybe he is retired and own a horse ranch in the south)

The Org is currently still researching the ultimate weapon. For now, they need all the time that they get. They also have the most potential to gain more power with time so rushing into war now is unlikely. Also while everyone else is in the dark (hidden) they alone is in the light (known).
I think that both Alicia and Beth can awaken alternately. If one is weaken, they could probably switch their roles, so it is like fighting 1.5 AO. About attacking Beth instead to break the sole link, it may not exactly be a good idea. It is possible that the sole link work the other way too. A weaken Beth may awaken ending up 2 AO, True they lose their allegiance to the org but whoever did it will probably die.

The ghost main objective ( i think) is revenge on the org. Some probably have other agenda ( i.e. Claire). They have no intention of squaring off with the AOs and are probably weaker even with the 7yrs and cloak. Even if they do win, it is likely some of them will really become ghosts. The ultimate plan will probably involve liberation of the claymores and cleansing the island of yoma and ABs but probably still far in the future. (But being immortal, it doesn't really matter)

The Dragonkin faction is operating undercover here. With no apparent military power on the island, it is unlikely that they will initiate a war. They would try to provoke the other factions to war though. The most likely target would be the ghost and the org since it is unlikely they have access to the AOs.

MisterJB · 2008-10-28, 08:55

Spoiler for off-topic:

irvinethearcher · 2008-10-28, 09:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awakened

Clare can be a match for any AO, she just has to know their weakness. Once she knows their weakness, she can configure her body to take advantage of it, just like when she fought Rigaldo.

There's no proof that clare could do such a thing. It seems more probable that this was her original awakened form. For example look at alicia and beth. Alicia has a special black armor for her awakened form therefore it is allways the same because if it wouldn't why forge an armor for her?

Gangsta Spanksta · 2008-10-28, 10:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterJB

Spoiler for off-topic:

I mentioned this before -- and I agree with you -- that I foresee two paths for Clare to choose for her final battle in the manga: one the fully awakened abyssal path, two the path where she keeps her humanity and fights like Teresa would have.

Gangsta Spanksta · 2008-10-28, 11:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by irvinethearcher

There's no proof that clare could do such a thing. It seems more probable that this was her original awakened form. For example look at alicia and beth. Alicia has a special black armor for her awakened form therefore it is allways the same because if it wouldn't why forge an armor for her?

I disagree with you wholeheartedly. The proof is simply that Clare chose her awakened form. She wanted single-mindedly more speed, and so awakened customized legs. Also note that we've seen Awakened Beings change their forms, like the former number two that recently got eliminated. She had one awakened form, and then switched to her 'original' awakened form. So that means that there is a possibility for an awakened being to change its awakened form even after it has awakened -- not that all are able to do so.

MisterJB · 2008-10-28, 11:21

Clare is probrably going to have as much strength as Teresa in human form

that i disagree with you Tte Awakened form is not chosen by the warrior. it's something natural
and Agatha just covered herself with tentacles

Gangsta Spanksta · 2008-10-28, 12:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterJB

Clare is probrably going to have as much strength as Teresa in human form

that i disagree with you Tte Awakened form is not chosen by the warrior. it's something natural
and Agatha just covered herself with tentacles

This has been discussed on this forum before. There are two concepts here: Random Awakenings, On Purpose Awakenings. Previously it has been speculated, that when a Claymore awakens by random chance they tend to be less powerful because they get Random features. However, if a Claymore chooses to awaken, then they are more powerful because, though not on the level as Clare has done so, they have more input -- maybe subconsciously or their current desires -- to effect how they awaken. This all comes from Yagi telling us that the non Random Awakenings tend to be more powerful.

Also there are other examples of post awakening polymorphism, like Ophillia pushing her human side to her tail, making herself into a sort of mermaid like awakened being. As for agatha, she herself said that it was her original form that she was forced to show, her more recent form had non tentical legs to it. It might be that most awakened beings aren't aware of all it is to be awakened.

2008-10-26, 22:30	Link #69
revan5 Dark Lord of Animesuki Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: The Kingdom of Orange...you can't beat the Cuse, in basketball or snowfall!	One thing I've been wondering is just what the capabilities of an "Eye" is. Sure we know what Galatea & Tabitha's technical abilities are, but can you quantify them? I say this because we keep listing the "Eyes" as these great advantages and yet we have no idea just what their sensing ranges are nor how big the island is. We know Galatea can pick up on Abyssal-class youki from a very great distance but we've never once had a map with a scale on it. I suppose Yagi does this to keep things fluid for the plot, but still, if we really want to evaluate the Ghosts fabled "Eyes", this would be a good thing to know. Does anyone else think that perhaps for the Ghosts their "Eyes" will not be as useful as they could be? What I mean is the Ghosts seem to be destined to fight Abyssal Ones...how much could an "Eye" like Tabitha, Renee or Galatea really help (with exception of Alicia)? __________________ How the warriors of Claymore OUGHT to look: http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...ostcount=12541 http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...ostcount=12530 "So Shiek, now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb!"

2008-10-28, 08:55	Link #75
MisterJB Warden of the West Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Casterly Rock	Spoiler for off-topic: i think the Organization has already made the ultimate weapon and then they destroyed her it was called Teresa she probrably could kill Abyssal Ones like riful or easley with no problems at all __________________

2008-10-28, 11:21	Link #79
MisterJB Warden of the West Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Casterly Rock	Clare is probrably going to have as much strength as Teresa in human form that i disagree with you Tte Awakened form is not chosen by the warrior. it's something natural and Agatha just covered herself with tentacles __________________

2008-10-26, 12:50	Link #64
Sordes Pilosus Claymore Addict Join Date: Jan 2006 Age: 39	Faction War Summery: This post is a Summery Based around each Faction currently on the Island and is based on information available up to Chapter 84. Some speculation based on Manga Direction and Likly events is however also included but will be noted and easy to spot. This summery will also use two Distinct stats to mark a Factions Strenght, that is Military Power and War Potensial. Military Power bases itself around how much general strenght a faction has, basicly how much firepower and strenght it has available. War Potensial however determins the potensial to a faction, basicly what options of strategy and methods available to them to fullfill a mission or task. Along with these two a smal summery of Strenghts and Weakness's to a faction will be listed, in some cases there will be alot of missing info like the situation around Isley as he has not been shown after the timeskip, but will instead base itself on his strenghts and the situation known to involve him. The Grades used in Military Power and War Potensial is ranked from F to S, a * behind a stat indicates a note that goes along with the stat and the stat needs to be read with the content of the note in mind. Listed Factions: - The Org. - Riful - Isley - Ghosts - Dragonkin - Other's The List above outlines the factions presently involved in the situation on the Island, most will be well aware off all the groups except "Other" that containts Chips that currently cant be placed in a Faction yet but holds posibility to change ballance of power. The questions regarding Irene being alive, Racilla, Pricilla etc belongs under this Other's group. Its just outlined here for the sake of easy understanding since Other's is the last group and some might react to for instance Pricilla not being listed under Isley or Racilla under Riful as of yet. However without further deley here is the first summery: The Org. Military Power: S War Potensial: C Strenghts: The Organisation's is the faction with the highest degree of Military Power, with a large number of Claymore's, the Ability to create more alongside it being aligned to one of the Main two sides on the Mainland offer's its the broadest and largest amount of Military Power. They also have Alicia completed which makes them able to hold of either Riful or Isley in a 1 vs 1 Situation and the extra Claymore's holds the option of countering this ballance in the Org's Favor. Weakness: The Organisation however is also the factino with the lowest degree of War Potensial, this is because they have a very broad area they need to protect and Alicia can not be deployed everywhere at a short notice, and in a War with several factions Alica can not be moved offensivly at any time either making the Org take a very deffensive standpoint, normal Claymore's is also generaly weaker then Awakened and no match against Abyssals making the Org the most vulnerable to be "slowly grinded or picked off little by little" in a war. Alicia also has a fatal weakness in her reliance on Beth making any interuption very risky making Alica a risky card if not properly used. Training new Claymore's of a High level also takes quite alot of time, so replacing "strong claymore's" takes time making the Org the most vulnerable out of any faction as a result. Riful: Military Power: A War Potensial: B Strenghts: Riful has a strong allied in Duph, and together they are capable of doing combat against multiple foes at the same time due to their awakened forms. Riful is also a very active player which is the main reason for her high war potensial. She currently posses's Raciella's remains but the result of that is stil unclear but can drasticly tip things in her Favor making her the strongest Faction if things turns out well. Weakness: Riful while having a strong allie in Duph she also has her main weakness in him. She is emotionaly attached to a very stupid awakened, this is possible to place Riful in a difficult spot if facing foes on more fronts where herself is forced to fight the strongest oposition. Riful is also overly abisious making her more likly to make mistakes and she has been seen starting to lose her calm that made her very strong in the first part of the manga. Her faction however is also very smal, her need for allies is great but the availability seams limited and she hasent been shown having more forces available making it a Two vs alot situation, making her the most vulnerable to sneak attacks or combat on multiple fronts. Isley: Military Power: A* War Potensial : B* (Notes: Isley has been seen to be a commander, meaning he is the type to activly gather forces, his hold on Pricilla is also currently unknown drasticly making him a bit unstabil in terms of potensial or posibilities.) Strenghts: A good commander with a tactical mindframe, seams to be using Pricilla in the first part for his own gains. He is calm and very patient making him unlikly to make foolish moves or risks. The liklyhood of a new while smaler army to support him is also a large posibility with Isley, however fully placing him in the grid is hard before more information about him now after timeskip is revealed. Weakness: Pricilla, he might be just a General to her and have no ambision of his own. This means he is very vulnerable to Pricillas whims and this might be his downfall. He also is the most passive of all factions, after his advance pretimeskip he seams to have settled down without any large desires to do anything for a while yet. But as about him after timeskip is nonexistant to date accurate information is hard. Ghosts: Military Power: B War Potensial: S Strenghts: The Ghosts is the group with by far the largest war potensial, likly more then twice as large as any other faction. The reason behind this is their Mobility, unlikle other factions they are free to move around pretty much as they please allowing for covert operations on a grand scale, taking even a Abyssal head in their unaware moment or their strong allies is far from unlikly. They also posess a information advantage regarding other factions. While being able to "spy" on others without being detected they can stage attacks and perform tactics other factions have no chance off. Weakness: The hard part of the chosts is that their "just Claymore's" and none is currently strong enough even in a group to take down a Abyssal Class oponent, meaning while they are strong in the Sneaky department and hard to take out, they have a very hard time actualy taking out the big foes stil. They are also very vulnerable to losses or injury compared to other factions. Awakeneds Regernate well, Org can replace their Claymore's but replacing members of the Ghosts is much harder, not many will belive the "thruth" about the mainland easily either or wait to listen to the story. Also they have the weakest mentality by wanting to protect as many as possible with their limited resources. Dragonkin: Military Power: D War Potensial: A Strenghts: Sabotage, the liklyhood of Infiltration within the ranks of the Org and perhaps even the Ghosts is available to them. They also hold the most favorable cards for their own wishes of the whole Island going up in flames as a result of the Org's unsucessfull results. Their basicly the main player and the ones pulling strings as it suits them with the least amount of threat directed against themselves. But since Sabotage can drasticly change ballance of war for either faction (Claymore's defecting) or (Awakens) or simular can cause large changes in power ballances around making their war potensial quite high. Weakness: Direct Military Power, the ability to direct action is limited. While they likly have perhaps 2 or 3 Claymore's and some other operates their forces are extremly limited and their actual military power aswell. Without sucessfull manipulation of events its little that will go in their favor making them not very much in control of events as they would have liked. Other's: Military Power: S* War Potensial: A (Notes: With two Abyssal class posibilities up for the taking the warpower could be considered double S, but since this faction aint united as one force but a collective of forces around like random Awakends around etc its not a collective force.) Strenghts: A few Awakened supporting Riful, or Racillia awakening would change things alot for her, the Ghosts rescuing Racillia and Renee would even bring alot in their favor again. Or what actions Pricilla with Raki will take from now on can change the tide of ballance regardless where they end up. Making the Other's likly a deciding factor in how events will play out. Weakness: Pricilla havent eaten in ages, and she has always been unstabil making her a strange and difficult card. Racillia can go so many ways if she even will awake is unknown. And as mentioned this is not a collective force, since its not unified alot of it save the big elements in this group will be picked off without doing much good. But its potensial for other groups is quite strong, but its no real faction of its own. ______________________________________ I Hope this post have been interesting to read and usefull for some. Even hope it will help spark some discussions regarding factions or their situation and function as a base for sutch discussions. Anyway hope youve enjoyed reading this post. - Sordes

2008-10-27, 22:29	Link #72
KillerYomaFromSpace Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008	I learned that in Claymore, all predictions and theories are useless, because when you think that all the pieces are in the table, BANG!, Yagi brings in something like Raciella, absolutely nobody could have predicted that. It's the way Claymore works, and one of the main reasons why I love it so much, it actually manages to surprise me unlike most of other things out there, I like to theorize, try to find out what happen next, and I like even more to be wrong when I do so. but lets asume that there won't be new stuff, and I'm using what we have right now to speculate about some possible movements in the story we've got several separated groups right now -Miria and Thabita in Rabona (waiting for the others, and hopefully having fun ^^) but there is no evidence that they are in the church with the other 3 -Galatea, taking care of Clarice and Miata in the church of Rabona, Miria asked Galatea to protect them and help them with enemy movements, but she didn't tell her to join th crusade (the future of those 3 is a big mistery, like the nature of Miata and Clarice. so, something/someone must get them out of there) . an event in Rabona is required, maybe a visit from an abyssal (Easley?) or bad news that forces them to move -Helen and Deneve, aparently the least interesting group of all, may hold surprise. they may be the ones that encounters an abyssal too (Alicia?), or discover someting important and bring back news, they may also get kidnapped by the organization so they find out about partial awakening. forcing Rubel to make a move -Cynthia, Yuma and Clare seem to be heading for Riful now, a battle that they can't win. I fear that Yuma is going to be the sacrifice. -Raki and Priscila: they are not far from Riful, so they may be the key for Clare's survival, there is almost no doubt that those will be their allies. I also think that Priscila is meant to fight Raciella -René: she is not willing to help Riful and she will try to escape or so it seems, and she have to deliver the message to Clare that Raki is looking for her, so Raciella's awakening may be delayed -Raciella: (this one is problematic): power level: here is a little problem, in Claymore 1 + 1 is not always 2, if it was that way, then Clare would be Nº1 right since the beginning, but for now, she just shows potential, so Raciella may be weaker than Riful at the beginning, so Riful does not kill her, then she shows her real potential when its already too late for Riful to kill her. o maybe René escapes, and Riful frustrated tries to awaken Raciella on her own, while praying for luck. alignement: if she is too powerful = Evil (because her opponent would be Priscila), if she is not = may be good memories: if she remembers everything, she may ally Riful to defeat Easley, (something similar was Luciela's last wish), she could also end up being truly evil and force Riful to be her slave instead of the opposite. if she doesn't remember then anything could happen . but I think she will remember, and she will be smart, Raphaela is been in the manga for a long time now, and the story of the two sisters has much more develompent than what a powerful brainless minion would deserve. -Org's Claymores: I think some may switch sides and join the ghosts, except Alicia and Beth -The organization: if they kidnap Helen and Deneve, (two partially awakened) they may complete their objective or at least find out -The other faction: if the organization completes their objective, Rubel may be able to call for a huge scale attack on the island to erase everyting before it gets out, bringing in the new race and there may be new future alliances. that will polarize the conflict in 2 huge factions I think I've written so much that I lost track of it all in all the speculative posibilities spinning around in my head, but I don't feel like deleteing it, I'll just click the "submit Reply" button hoping for it to make any sense =P

2008-10-27, 22:51	Link #73
Dean_the_Young Has a life IRL Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Somewhere in the Anglo-Saxon Sphere	Some of you might want to consider each sides objectives. This isn't just a battle to control a small island, after all. In fact, only one side seems outright interested in that. Consider. The Organization: really couldn't care less, because their objective is to use this island as a laboratory. As long as they can produce more and better claymores, and possibly even another controllable abyssal one, they come out ahead. Winning the war on the mainland is their goal. The Ghosts don't care about the land, except in so much that people shouldn't become snack food. They're after the Organization while trying to make sure no Abyssal wins, but they themselves don't want control. The Dragonkin don't want the island, or else they'd be fighting for it already. As long as the Organization loses, they win. Quite possibly/likely the Dragonkin have their abyssal-level dragons. The Holy City of Rabona is merely concerned with its own protection. It's questionable if they have the manpower to go a conquering, and even if they did they can't match the upper-tier beasties. Isley is a mystery, but if he had wanted he likely could have blitzed the rest of the island while he still had Priscilla (assuming he doesn't have her in reach now). But to date, he seems to have been more concerned with smashing any potential team-up that could defeat him. Riful is the one who seems most concerned with the balance of power and status of lands, and even that is in reaction to Isley's actions. While she certainly seeks to take every advantage, whether it's a matter of power or merely of land remains to be seen.

2008-10-28, 05:25	Link #74
FateAnomaly Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007	I think in the first place non of the ABs are interested in land. They have no interest in politics, economy or the likes. The top desire is survival and humans are merely food. As long as there is food and nothing is threatening them, they are fine with the situation. So all they need is an area with a population enough to sustain them. Everything that Riful has done is to survive and not to take over the island. The Isley/Priscilla faction is way stronger than her. The org potential to create more Alicia and Beth is also much too dangerous. Thus she need a strong ally namely Raciela. She will go to war to kill Priscilla and the org but the ghost will probably be safe if they do not provoke her further. Also, i don't think that she really care too much about Dauf. Dauf is like a pet too her. She will protect him but not at the risk of her life. Dauf on the other hand probably worship her. Isley imo is a true warrior (or knight). He means his word when he pledge allegiance to Priscilla and totally loyal to her even if she is somewhat mentally not quite there. He fought Luciela to pave the way for Priscilla safety at risk to his own life. It didn't really if he won or lost at that matter and he is prepare for it. If he died, Priscilla will definitely kill Luciela. (Priscilla is apparently very attached to her family members) If he won, then all is well. Currently, i think he is lurking in the background observing the situation to see if there is anything threatening Priscilla. War is unlikely as his faction is apparently the strongest now. (Or maybe he is retired and own a horse ranch in the south) The Org is currently still researching the ultimate weapon. For now, they need all the time that they get. They also have the most potential to gain more power with time so rushing into war now is unlikely. Also while everyone else is in the dark (hidden) they alone is in the light (known). I think that both Alicia and Beth can awaken alternately. If one is weaken, they could probably switch their roles, so it is like fighting 1.5 AO. About attacking Beth instead to break the sole link, it may not exactly be a good idea. It is possible that the sole link work the other way too. A weaken Beth may awaken ending up 2 AO, True they lose their allegiance to the org but whoever did it will probably die. The ghost main objective ( i think) is revenge on the org. Some probably have other agenda ( i.e. Claire). They have no intention of squaring off with the AOs and are probably weaker even with the 7yrs and cloak. Even if they do win, it is likely some of them will really become ghosts. The ultimate plan will probably involve liberation of the claymores and cleansing the island of yoma and ABs but probably still far in the future. (But being immortal, it doesn't really matter) The Dragonkin faction is operating undercover here. With no apparent military power on the island, it is unlikely that they will initiate a war. They would try to provoke the other factions to war though. The most likely target would be the ghost and the org since it is unlikely they have access to the AOs.