To Aru Majutsu no Index LN - Genesis Testament Volume 3 Discussion

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Endscape

Everyone in AC's leadership who knew about magic is either gone or dead except Accel, so he really will have to figure out ways for the city to deal with it now.

Come to think of it, doesn't Kazakiri Hyouka know also.....Isn't she still there?

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Come to think of it, doesn't Kazakiri Hyouka know also.....Isn't she still there?

She isn't exactly AC leadership though, and while she's seen what's out there, I highly doubt she's well versed on magical stuff.

[Cosmic Eagle]

She is.....Kind of similar to a man-made Aiwass though. And knows what something from the Magic Side like Gabriel feels like more intimately than Accelerator maybe since she's literally one of them. And is also one of Aleister's big projects. Yeah, whatever is going to happen with her now that no one is maintaining her or the Imaginary Number District?

[Endscape]

She's kinda technically the same species as Aiwass and Gabriel, but unlike them she didn't seem to have any detailed knowledge on sorcery.

And yeesh, you're right about the Imaginary Number District. We've already got Frillsland, ago knows what else might happen. I do hope this leads to more Kazakiri appearances.

[dniv]

So, really late to the show, but I finally read this.

Holy F*ck. This was incredible to read. What a volume. Maybe his best one yet.

Can't wait for GT4.

[Chosen_Hero]

So an entire volume for Hamazura to learn that good people do good things because they are good and bad people do bad stuff because they are bad all over again for like the umpteenth time... What a waste of a volume.

So basically, everything with Hamazura went exactly as I predicted before the volume released, then the epilogue happened and... yeah, it was a pretty meh conclusion since we won't know the true results until probably the next volume. If Kamachi actually has the balls to keep Hamazura dead or at the very least cripple him to the point that he has to be taken off the main plot, then I will have a lot of respect for him, but I seriously doubt Kamachi will kill off his OC (calling it now, the charm somehow ends up saving him, because of course it would, why the hell else would he mention it at that exact moment.).

Like I mentioned before, this was in my opinion a worse version of Baggage City and Dark Side War. The whole thing with Anti Skill turn about and them just being willing to murder people, students, all of a sudden from out of nowhere made no sense even when you take the coins into account, heck even just saying "well, it's 'cause dark side lol" doesn't excuse it. I understand if it had been a few of them or half fo them going rogue and just choosing to ignore orders, but ALL of Anti Skill, to the point that they all just start to commit mass suicide near the end? Nah, I ain't buying that.

Then there was the whole dark side apologism going on throughout the volume, "b-but good people exist in the dark side tho", and sure, I am willing to accept that but only if the circumstances make sense and out of all the ones shown only Drencher Kihara's motivation was anywhere near believeable as to why he would be in the dark side.

Seriously, some of those where just ridiculous, "oh I'm in the dark side just because I like researching S&M and people thought it was bad, so here I am" or "my mom and sister accidentally killed their stalker who attacked them so I just chose to get rid of the body, even though it was in self defense and we had a pretty good chance of the case going our way" or my favorite, "I love humans and want to protect them from the dark side by letting them use me instead" says the robot that was going around slicing humans into pieces without any remorse, but feel bad for her though, she's a cute anime loli robot.

I just feel like Kamachi was trying way too hard to excuse why the dark side need to still be around a bit too much and I personally didn't like how he went about in doing so.

Also, Academy City's greatest taboo sucked ass. Was it the fact that the city uses it's population of (mostly underaged) students as lab rats in super illegal experiments? Is it the fact that the list of missing people in the city is about as large as the total population? Maybe it's a list of all the higher ups controlling the dark side from the shadows with and extensive record of every single misdeed? Nah, it's just some conveniently place train station that appeared out of nowhere that one time they were experimenting with the imaginary city that almost ended the world... .

By the way, you can't be telling me that Academy City, a place that is 30 years ahead of the rest of the world in terms of science and medicine couldn't figure out that Takitsubo's condition could be fixed or made slightly better with a simple dialysis machine treatment... right? No, we needed the S&M expert to conveniently figure it out in just a few minutes after meeting them. Not only that, apparently Hamazura himself turned into a moxibustion expert within minutes to the point where he can accurately use it to target the weak points on the seemingly invincible android, apart from you know, having him all of a sudden be able to fight her so perfectly that he was basically curving his infinte amount of rounds and shit... wait what? I thought I was hallucinating the words as I read them, holy shit was that fight not good.

Sigh, I wanted to keep this as short as possible but the more I remember the more I find to complain about... I'll just stop here for the sake of my sanity.

If you liked it then good for you, glad that you enjoyed the volume, but again, this is probably my least favorite volume in the series. With GT 1 and 2 I had my fair share of problems but I was still able to enjoy them far more, but this one just rubbed me the wrong way in almost every single aspect.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

but I seriously doubt Kamachi will kill off his OC

...You are aware that this wasn't a fanfic, right?

Seriously, some of those where just ridiculous, "oh I'm in the dark side just because I like researching S&M and people thought it was bad, so here I am"

So the fact that a woman ended up chased by cops and killed because...she was researching the "wrong' stuff leaped over your head?

or "my mom and sister accidentally killed their stalker who attacked them so I just chose to get rid of the body, even though it was in self defense and we had a pretty good chance of the case going our way"

Seriously?

This is Academy City, where the law is what the Board of Directors says it is and the dark side gets a pass all the time.

or my favorite, "I love humans and want to protect them from the dark side by letting them use me instead" says the robot that was going around slicing humans into pieces without any remorse, but feel bad for her though, she's a cute anime loli robot.

Putting aside that you're mischaracterizing Ladybird's motivations here, did you miss the part where she was getting manipulated by an out and out sadist?

I just feel like Kamachi was trying way too hard to excuse why the dark side need to still be around a bit too much and I personally didn't like how he went about in doing so.

The point wasn't justifying why the dark side exists, it's showing how the dark side prays on people for its' own ends.

[Chosen_Hero]

Originally Posted by Endscape

...You are aware that this wasn't a fanfic, right?

Yeah, and I stand by what I said.

Originally Posted by Endscape

So the fact that a woman ended up chased by cops and killed because...she was researching the "wrong' stuff leaped over your head?

Yet we don't see any of the "wrong" stuff, just kinks and medicinal techniques that end up saving people, either way it doesn't make her reason for being part of the dark side any less dumber.

Also, you do know that she died defending Hamazura, not for "researching the wrong stuff" and the cops were willing to just take her away and weren't going to kill her until one of them just out of the blue wanted to for no discernible reason (later we find out it was because the coin made them or something, that part is still confusing).

Edit: Also, to clarify further, nowhere does it say that she was actually researching the "wrong" stuff, she said that people viewed her bdsm and torture research as being "wrong" and shunned and and that the reason she ended in the dark side was because it was the only place that would accept her. We are never told that she did horrible things with her research, heck, like I said, all we see is her using it to help others.

Originally Posted by Endscape

Seriously?

This is Academy City, where the law is what the Board of Directors says it is and the dark side gets a pass all the time.

Their circumstances weren't tied to the dark side and it's even questionable if it even happened inside of AC at all, it was just a plain old case of a stalker attacking his victims and dying when they defended themselves. The only tie to the dark side is just because Rafuoka decided to get rid of the body, not because dark side made him or planned it, so there is no reason for them to try and intervene. He was just considered dark side because he did a bad thing that one time.

Originally Posted by Endscape

Putting aside that you're mischaracterizing Ladybird's motivations here, did you miss the part where she was getting manipulated by an out and out sadist?

No, just like how I didn't miss the part where she still did those things because she wanted to please him, lie or not she still did those horrible things at his beck and call and was shown to even be happy to do so.

I also am not ignoring that her motivation just came out of nowhere when most convenient during the last part of the volume. Maybe if we had know earlier it would be more tolerable but all we saw was her going Terminator on people for the bast majority of the volume.

Originally Posted by Endscape

The point wasn't justifying why the dark side exists, it's showing how the dark side prays on people for its' own ends.

Therefore justifying the need for the dark side to exist, especially by showing us the so called "beneficials" in a good light, your argument only strengthens mine.

You are free to disagree with me, but don't try and make it look like I don't know what I literally just read.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

Therefore justifying the need for the dark side to exist, especially by showing us the so called "beneficials" in a good light, your argument only strengthens mine.

Uh....No. The reason why the Dark Side exists or is justified to exist cannot be covered in just this volume alone. And actually, its made quite clear that the Dark Side needs a major rework

[shmaster]

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

Their circumstances weren't tied to the dark side and it's even questionable if it even happened inside of AC at all, it was just a plain old case of a stalker attacking his victims and dying when they defended themselves. The only tie to the dark side is just because Rafuoka decided to get rid of the body, not because dark side made him or planned it, so there is no reason for them to try and intervene. He was just considered dark side because he did a bad thing that one time.

No. he is considered the dark side because he use the dark side's facility to cover up the murder.
In other words, this occurred in AC, not outside.
That's what his inner guilt, in the form of Kaai, is accusing him of all along. Pg.308 for the exact line.

[Chosen_Hero]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Uh....No. The reason why the Dark Side exists or is justified to exist cannot be covered in just this volume alone. And actually, its made quite clear that the Dark Side needs a major rework

Nothing you said disproves my point. Nothing was said about it needing major rework, everyone that was fighting for the dark side was doing so to preserve it as is and by the end the only thing you can say is that a new darkness was born, whatever that means.

Originally Posted by shmaster

No. he is considered the dark side because he use the dark side's facility to cover up the murder.
In other words, this occurred in AC, not outside.
That's what his inner guilt, in the form of Kaai, is accusing him of all along. Pg.308 for the exact line.

Just read it again and there is no mention of any facility, at best it alludes to the fact that he passed through the sewers to reach the point where he got rid of the body
(since it's his mind talking to him he probably did it in a mountain or a station) something that anyone in his position would/could easily come up with. The only thing I can give you is that it took place in AC, outside of that my comment still stands.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

Yeah, and I stand by what I said.

This is why people can't take your rabid Hamazura hate seriously, you know.

Yet we don't see any of the "wrong" stuff, just kinks and medicinal techniques that end up saving people, either way it doesn't make her reason for being part of the dark side any less dumber.

You're still missing the point, Vivian should not have had her life threatened by Anti-Skill to begin with.

Also, you do know that she died defending Hamazura, not for "researching the wrong stuff" and the cops were willing to just take her away and weren't going to kill her until one of them just out of the blue wanted to for no discernible reason (later we find out it was because the coin made them or something, that part is still confusing).

She wouldn't have been in that position if the cops had not started hunting her down. And saying "The cops weren't going to murder her, except when they tried to murder her" is not a good justification, you know.

Edit: Also, to clarify further, nowhere does it say that she was actually researching the "wrong" stuff, she said that people viewed her bdsm and torture research as being "wrong" and shunned and and that the reason she ended in the dark side was because it was the only place that would accept her. We are never told that she did horrible things with her research, heck, like I said, all we see is her using it to help others.

You're missing the point again.

The fact that someone had to drop down to the dark side because they were researching the wrong stuff (in case you didn't realize, the quotation marks meant I was using wrong sarcastically, since there's nothing wrong about researching torture) is part of the problem.

As the series has been telling us since OT days, not everyone in the dark side is some super evil being. Many of them are forced there because city leadership put them there.

Their circumstances weren't tied to the dark side and it's even questionable if it even happened inside of AC at all, it was just a plain old case of a stalker attacking his victims and dying when they defended themselves. The only tie to the dark side is just because Rafuoka decided to get rid of the body, not because dark side made him or planned it, so there is no reason for them to try and intervene. He was just considered dark side because he did a bad thing that one time.

The situation involving a dark side Kihara member automatically makes it related to the dark side. And as shmaster said, he was using dark side facilities to cover up his crime.

Therefore justifying the need for the dark side to exist, especially by showing us the so called "beneficials" in a good light, your argument only strengthens mine.

How is the dark side existing because higher ups make it so a justification for it to exist?

[shmaster]

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

Just read it again and there is no mention of any facility, at best it alludes to the fact that he passed through the sewers to reach the point where he got rid of the body
(since it's his mind talking to him he probably did it in a mountain or a station) something that anyone in his position would/could easily come up with. The only thing I can give you is that it took place in AC, outside of that my comment still stands.

That passage way alone is a dark side facility. Specifically designed to eliminate the traces if the people using it so they can get away.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

Nothing you said disproves my point. Nothing was said about it needing major rework, everyone that was fighting for the dark side was doing so to preserve it as is and by the end the only thing you can say is that a new darkness was born, whatever that means.

It shows that AC's system is badly screwed up. Also, people who either know only the Dark Side or are actively propagating it would fight to preserve it.....Surprise surprise. How's that justification for anything? If anything it just highlights how trapped they are. What did you expect when AC itself is a weapon from the very start? Really, "good people do good things because they are good and bad people do bad things because they are bad?" That 5 year old kid logic was all you got from the entire volume?


Also you do realize that the Dark Side is an artificial construct yes? It serves a purpose in the entire anti-Magic war of Aleister. Which is what the last chapter is alluding to. As long as the war continues, the Dark Side will exist. Thus why I say you cannot take everything out of context. We know since forever that the Dark Side is Darwinian as all hell so I do not see how this can be taken as saying "it is the best way and needs no changing" just because.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

Yet we don't see any of the "wrong" stuff, just kinks and medicinal techniques that end up saving people, either way it doesn't make her reason for being part of the dark side any less dumber.

That's the whole point lol. It is dumb. But people are forced to go to the dark side whether they're evil or misunderstood or whatever. It just happens. No one was spared by their attempt to purge the dark side. The whole point of this volume is that something went wrong and that the result is tragic. You're clearing just ignoring most of the intended themes here, lol. It's similar to Baggage City, but more extreme.

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

Their circumstances weren't tied to the dark side and it's even questionable if it even happened inside of AC at all, it was just a plain old case of a stalker attacking his victims and dying when they defended themselves. The only tie to the dark side is just because Rafuoka decided to get rid of the body, not because dark side made him or planned it, so there is no reason for them to try and intervene. He was just considered dark side because he did a bad thing that one time.

You clearly didn't read between the lines/read the volume. They killed A KIHARA. They weren't winning any case. They were dead if they so much as revealed that they did it and anyone higher-up cared to figure out who did it. It obviously happened in Academy City because it was a Kihara. That's the whole goddamn point. When they disposed of the body it was in the sewer system in the place he'd been to before. Did you even read the goddamn volume lmao. Don't criticize what you're too lazy to read. And in Japan, there's prejudice against the backlash of any negative public opinion. He didn't want the public to socially ostracize his family so to protect them he secretly disposed of the body for the sake of their life. And even though that was morally wrong, he was obsessed about justice because he felt a deep sense of guilt over everything and blamed all of his problems on external things instead of on himself because he was running away. That was the whole plot point lmao. That's why there was going to be a NEW Kihara killer. Actually read the volume.

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

No, just like how I didn't miss the part where she still did those things because she wanted to please him, lie or not she still did those horrible things at his beck and call and was shown to even be happy to do so.

I also am not ignoring that her motivation just came out of nowhere when most convenient during the last part of the volume. Maybe if we had know earlier it would be more tolerable but all we saw was her going Terminator on people for the bast majority of the volume.

Oh, even though the entire volume is constructed before it is released and clearly that factor as part of her behavior is therefore planned as retroactively applying in that part of the story, that wasn't her real reason for accompanying the professor. It's not like the plan was to reveal it one step at a time as it came up. Come on, it's pretty obvious that she did it to minimize suffering--she was manipulated into doing it--but she did it with good intentions.

Therefore justifying the need for the dark side to exist, especially by showing us the so called "beneficials" in a good light, your argument only strengthens mine.

You are free to disagree with me, but don't try and make it look like I don't know what I literally just read.

But you didn't just read. You ignored a lot of the most important details in the story. It's pretty obvious from the things you just said and didn't comment on. I don't think we read the same novel. Not to mention, this is supposed to be nuanced and tragic. He wasn't whitewashing the darkness. He was just commenting on human nature and showing how warped everything is. I literally also can't believe that you're faulting him for the coin thing when it's clearly hinted that Antiskill's behavior is caused by whatever Sprengel set up previously. It's like you're choosing to ignore the story worldbuilding and mechanisms because you prefer hating on the writing because it is convenient. Like come on man, your complaints are downright ridiculous at this point.