AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2019-09-01, 12:34   Link #481
Haak
Me, An Intellectual
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Wanting to kill Nezuko is completely understandable. But that's not what they're doing, is it?
...

Isn't it?
Haak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2019-09-01, 12:53   Link #482
TheForsaken
Winter is coming
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
So why did Tomioka let Nezuko go in the first place then?
Because he saw Nezuko refusing to eat Tanjiro even though she was in a circumstance where she should have done so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
And the issue isn't so much that they don't trust Tanjirou, but that they don't trust a former pillar (who I'm guessing is highly respected given he survived this long), a current pillar, and even their own master.
Seeing something with your very own eyes and hearing about it from someone else are two totally different things.
For example, if someone who you trust and respect tell you that the Earth is flat, do you believe him?
__________________
TheForsaken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2019-09-01, 12:59   Link #483
blakstealth
Les Pays Bass
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Full version of From the Edge is finally out. I definitely like it more than Gurenge!

--

These Hashiras may be good demon slayers, but they're so narrow-minded. Even after their master sanctioned the Tanjiro/Nezuko situation, even told them that Tanjiro made contact with Kibutsuji and explained how the two siblings are potentially significant to taking him down, they're still adamant about the rules. Like, come on.
blakstealth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2019-09-01, 13:20   Link #484
p-kun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
So why did Tomioka let Nezuko go in the first place then?

And the issue isn't so much that they don't trust Tanjirou, but that they don't trust a former pillar (who I'm guessing is highly respected given he survived this long), a current pillar, and even their own master.
The Demon Slayer Corps is an organization united through hatred of demons, no? It's not an organization where loyalty to one master/trust over pillar trumps their most important value, which is "destroy all demons" as written in their swords and uniforms. Just like Sanemi said, by protecting certain demons, the master/pillars will demoralize the corps that have family/friends killed by the demons and have been fighting with their lives in line every day to make sure others don't suffer from the same fate.

Tomioka let Nezuko go because she protected Tanjirou rather than eating him, despite being injured and newly turned, and thus starving. That Nezuko's love over her brother won over her demonic instinct made him curious and compassionate. There's more, but that'll be covered way later if the anime continues.
p-kun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2019-09-01, 13:21   Link #485
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
...

Isn't it?
No. They're torturing Nezuko. For no reason.
Anh_Minh is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2019-09-01, 13:34   Link #486
Haak
Me, An Intellectual
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
No. They're torturing Nezuko. For no reason.
I'm honestly baffled how you've managed to come to that conclusion given how clear Scarface made his intentions: He flat out stated that he intended to prove that Nezuko will attack a human just like any demon. I mean it is vindictive to stab her as well and I know the author doesn't explain things well but is it really that much of stretch to assume that the stabbing is done deliberately to goad her into attacking him?

But even if he wasn't doing it for a reason then I still wouldn't understand what your point is. Does there have to be a reason when hate and dehumanization are involved? Are you disagreeing with my point about dehumanization or agreeing with it?

Last edited by Haak; 2019-09-01 at 14:30.
Haak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2019-09-01, 14:24   Link #487
Shadow5YA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
So why did Tomioka let Nezuko go in the first place then?

And the issue isn't so much that they don't trust Tanjirou, but that they don't trust a former pillar (who I'm guessing is highly respected given he survived this long), a current pillar, and even their own master.
Because this isn't just an issue of trust. It's that they flat out can't comprehend a demon having any sense of morality. They geniunely cannot believe there are good demons, especially when they have never seen any themselves.

Tomioka only began to have some modicum of faith in Nezuko when he saw her prove herself in front of his eyes. Even then, she is one of very few exceptions, not the rule.
Shadow5YA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2019-09-01, 15:30   Link #488
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
I'm honestly baffled how you've managed to come to that conclusion given how clear Scarface made his intentions: He flat out stated that he intended to prove that Nezuko will attack a human just like any demon.
And for what purpose does he need to prove anything? He's obviously already convinced, and isn't really trying to convince Tanjiro. He's just making them suffer for his own amusement.

Quote:
I mean it is vindictive to stab her as well and I know the author doesn't explain things well but is it really that much of stretch to assume that the stabbing is done deliberately to goad her into attacking him?
That's his excuse, yes, but what would it prove, exactly?

Quote:
But even if he wasn't doing it for a reason then I still wouldn't understand what your point is. Does there have to be a reason when hate and dehumanization are involved? Are you disagreeing with my point about dehumanization or agreeing with it?
I'm saying they're cruel beyond what the danger Nezuko represents justifies. There's a difference between putting down a dangerous animal and torturing it for your own amusement, even if you have your reasons to hate dangerous animals.
Anh_Minh is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2019-09-01, 15:41   Link #489
Shadow5YA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
And for what purpose does he need to prove anything? He's obviously already convinced, and isn't really trying to convince Tanjiro. He's just making them suffer for his own amusement.


That's his excuse, yes, but what would it prove, exactly?
His boss wanted Nezuko alive. One of his colleagues wanted Nezuko alive. It's not that big of a stretch that he wanted to prove Nezuko was a bad demon like the rest of them.
Shadow5YA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2019-09-01, 16:02   Link #490
HtwoN
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Texas, US
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
I'm saying they're cruel beyond what the danger Nezuko represents justifies. There's a difference between putting down a dangerous animal and torturing it for your own amusement, even if you have your reasons to hate dangerous animals.
You seem to ignore the fact that demons INTENTIONALLY kill and eat humans for hundreds of years. Demons are not the same as animals, which act on instinct.

These hashiras have seen many shits caused by demons. They saw demons turned on their friends and families. Sanemi is trying to prove that Nezuko is the same as the rest.
HtwoN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2019-09-01, 16:05   Link #491
Haak
Me, An Intellectual
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
And for what purpose does he need to prove anything? He's obviously already convinced, and isn't really trying to convince Tanjiro. He's just making them suffer for his own amusement.


That's his excuse, yes, but what would it prove, exactly?
It was in direct response to his Master telling him that he can't kill Nezuko because he can't prove Nezuko will attack anyone. So he sets out to goad Nezuko into attacking him so he can be given an excuse to kill her. Again, I know the author is bad at explaining things but all of that was in the episode clear as day.


Quote:
I'm saying they're cruel beyond what the danger Nezuko represents justifies. There's a difference between putting down a dangerous animal and torturing it for your own amusement, even if you have your reasons to hate dangerous animals.
Even if you've seen said dangerous animals of the same species kill friends, family and/or loved ones in potentially cruel ways and have never even heard of said dangerous animals doing anything else? If Goblin Slayer or any other character in that show started torturing Goblins for their own amusement whenever they could, would it seem that removed from the reality of human emotions? It wouldn't be very noble but it also wouldn't be hard to understand right?
Haak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2019-09-01, 20:02   Link #492
Dark Wing
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Age: 35
I think what Anh_Minh is trying to get across is that while he understands why the Demon Slayers are cautious and skeptical of Nezuko given the nature of their work. He doesn't approve of them acting in away he preserves as needless cruel.
__________________
Dark Wing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2019-09-01, 21:51   Link #493
Shadow5YA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Wing View Post
I think what Anh_Minh is trying to get across is that while he understands why the Demon Slayers are cautious and skeptical of Nezuko given the nature of their work. He doesn't approve of them acting in away he preserves as needless cruel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
There's a difference between putting down a dangerous animal and torturing it for your own amusement, even if you have your reasons to hate dangerous animals.
You're not entirely wrong, but the animal analogy doesn't really work here when vast majority of demons here have been established to be evil themselves, not just acting on instinct.

No, the way they treated Nezuko was not necessary, but did anyone say it was? This isn't a peaceful society punishing a criminal - this is a group in a war for survival with personal investment in the outcome.
Shadow5YA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2019-09-01, 22:16   Link #494
Lexxus
YES! Hahahaha
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Age: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by blakstealth View Post
Full version of From the Edge is finally out. I definitely like it more than Gurenge!
I don't see it yet on Spotify. How about Apple Music?
Lexxus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2019-09-02, 02:14   Link #495
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Wing View Post
I think what Anh_Minh is trying to get across is that while he understands why the Demon Slayers are cautious and skeptical of Nezuko given the nature of their work. He doesn't approve of them acting in away he preserves as needless cruel.
Yes, that's exactly it. Heck, I'd even understand "behead her first, ask questions later".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
It was in direct response to his Master telling him that he can't kill Nezuko because he can't prove Nezuko will attack anyone.
He started doing it before the master appeared.

Quote:
So he sets out to goad Nezuko into attacking him so he can be given an excuse to kill her. Again, I know the author is bad at explaining things but all of that was in the episode clear as day.
If you stab someone and they attack you in response, you haven't proved they're a dangerous homicidal maniac. You've just proved yourself to be a dick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
You're not entirely wrong, but the animal analogy doesn't really work here when vast majority of demons here have been established to be evil themselves, not just acting on instinct.
Either they have enough self-control to not be evil and have to be judged by their actions like people, or they don't and they're no better or worse than animals. And the people they used to be are victims to be pitied even if they have to be put down.

Quote:
No, the way they treated Nezuko was not necessary, but did anyone say it was? This isn't a peaceful society punishing a criminal - this is a group in a war for survival with personal investment in the outcome.
Understandable but not excusable.
Anh_Minh is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2019-09-02, 03:02   Link #496
Shadow5YA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Yes, that's exactly it. Heck, I'd even understand "behead her first, ask questions later".


He started doing it before the master appeared.
That doesn't matter. The fact that she was even brought back alive at all was an order from his superior.

If he can prove that she's violent, then Nezuko no longer as any moral protection.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
If you stab someone and they attack you in response, you haven't proved they're a dangerous homicidal maniac. You've just proved yourself to be a dick.
Demons are not the same as humans, therefore it wouldn't be a homicide regardless.

Second, yes it would actually prove they are dangerous because they are still retaliating with violence. In your words, "Understandable but not excusable."

Third, it's not just the act of violence, as considering their lifestyle they are already aware that humans can be violent too. What Sanemi wanted to see was Nezuko drinking blood, which will prove that she is not human and is something entirely different.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Either they have enough self-control to not be evil and have to be judged by their actions like people, or they don't and they're no better or worse than animals. And the people they used to be are victims to be pitied even if they have to be put down.
You slipped an important distinction - demons are not the same people they once knew as humans. The people they once knew are gone. Even if the characters do pity their lost loved ones, that doesn't mean they need to have any sympathy for the demons.

Considering Sanemi doesn't believe Nezuko to be an exception, she does not deserve to be treated kindly.

If anything, he shouldn't be judged for being cruel - but foolish instead. Let's say that he was right and Nezuko attacks him and drinks his blood: why risk setting her free to attack other people in the village? She wasn't even restrained like Tanjiro was.
Shadow5YA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2019-09-02, 03:15   Link #497
moridin84
Custom User Title
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Ireland
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
If anything, he shouldn't be judged for being cruel - but foolish instead. Let's say that he was right and Nezuko attacks him and drinks his blood: why risk setting her free to attack other people in the village? She wasn't even restrained like Tanjiro was.
He's completely confident he could kill her if she attacked him.

Even if he couldn't, there's no way she could escape the rest of them.
moridin84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2019-09-02, 04:56   Link #498
zeando
maybenotimome
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Yes, that's exactly it. Heck, I'd even understand "behead her first, ask questions later".
In a way, the wind hashira isn't being cruel only to nezuko, he's being cruel specifically to Tanjiro.

He wants to make Tanjiro realize what he believes to be the truth
"demons are deceptive, and having affection or attachment for them, is nonsense"

It's more than just, let's torture an evil demon, than, let's make this newbie realize the cruel truth of the world.
Probably Sanemi had an hard life, so seeing someone being so positive, and naive from his point of view, upsets him personally, so he thinks he needs to correct that attitude of Tanjiro.

I'm more curious about the snake hashira, is he sympatizing with Sanemi, or does he have other reasons for supporting him?
The snake pillar looked specifically opposed to Tomioka, so maybe he doesn't care as much about the nezuko issue, nor sanemi, rather he cares about having an excuse to damage the water breath lineage. (tanjiro + tomioka)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
If you stab someone and they attack you in response, you haven't proved they're a dangerous homicidal maniac. You've just proved yourself to be a dick.
You're right, by not fighting back, he would not prove anyone to not be a demon, but to be a saint.

Though, with demons, it can be reasoned that demons can regenerate, so a stab isn't as grave like stabbing an human, but more like poking them.
zeando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2019-09-02, 05:30   Link #499
zeando
maybenotimome
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
Quote:
If you stab someone and they attack you in response, you haven't proved they're a dangerous homicidal maniac. You've just proved yourself to be a dick.
Demons are not the same as humans, therefore it wouldn't be a homicide regardless.

Second, yes it would actually prove they are dangerous because they are still retaliating with violence. In your words, "Understandable but not excusable."
I don't agree on the second part.
Every living being has a survival instinct, with the basic run or fight when facing a danger, but if you corner a living being and remove them the option of running away, they will fight, as that's their only option out of danger. That's basic survival instinct, and it has no moral value.

If anything, it's less about reacting, but about identifying other humans as a danger.
An evil demon, would see any human as either, food if they're weak, a danger if they are strong.
While an hypothetical good demon, in the eyes of the hashiras, would not see other humans as food, nor sense strong humans as danger.

But Sanemi going about it by stabbing Nezuko, leaves little room for her not to see him as "danger", so Sanemi made his own point moot.
That's the most moronic thing he did, he made the humans=danger an invalid point to be verified, because of his actions.

Though, with the offering of blood he is making a valid point over humans=food.
zeando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2019-09-02, 08:22   Link #500
blakstealth
Les Pays Bass
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexxus View Post
I don't see it yet on Spotify. How about Apple Music?
I only know it's on Japanese iTunes Store and a couple other platforms for purchase. I don't know about streaming

https://lisa.lnk.to/PHyO4
blakstealth is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
demon, shonen

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 16:22.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
We use Silk.