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Old 2020-03-14, 18:47   Link #81
Grifis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakurin View Post
I always think it's funny when random people behind a keyboard think they know more than internationally renowned scientists (and I'm not talking about Chinese ones) who insist that there is no evidence that SARS-CoV2 has been tampered with. But just keep your tinfoil hat of "Chinese-engineered bio weapon".
You know what people say. Reality is stranger than fictions. Internationally renowned scientists are probably as respectable as the Havard chemist chief that got arrested for working for Wuhan lab and get paid 50k/ month + some millions from China. Interesting times.
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Old 2020-03-14, 19:41   Link #82
ramlaen
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Originally Posted by Key Board View Post
And get Trump checked already.
He's probably a vector considering the infections surrounding him.
Trump has already been tested, sorry that you were blueballed.
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Old 2020-03-14, 19:52   Link #83
Sheba
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I work in retail, and with assclowns panic purchasing, i am working thrice as I usually do. What I do? I fucking TRY to keep the toilet paper full. Do them fucking shit enough to fill swimming pools every day? I also absolutely love seeing Pakis coming from the neighborhood grocery shops bringing ALL their relatives to raid the toilet paper so they can resell at crazy high price. The stink eye EVERYONE give them for having the nerve to try profit off people's misery is priceless.
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Old 2020-03-14, 20:09   Link #84
AnimeFan188
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Anime Detour, TFcon Orlando Cancelled; Florida Supercon, WonderCon
Postponed:


"The Anime Detour convention in Minneapolis, Minnesota announced on Friday that it
has cancelled the event due to concerns about the COVID-19 coronavirus illness. The
event was scheduled to be held on April 3-5.

In the United States, other cancelled or postponed events include:"

See:

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/new...tponed/.157504
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Old 2020-03-14, 20:43   Link #85
coded321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ramlaen View Post
Trump has already been tested, sorry that you were blueballed.
He should have been tested days ago.
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Old 2020-03-14, 21:58   Link #86
Magin
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In regards to the White House statement, I'm going to wait until the end of March to draw any real conclusions. Then again, Trump could have insane luck (or the universe just hates America by this point).

Also, because of the video on the previous page, I found this one to be VERY interesting. It's not specifically about the coronavirus, but I do think it provides some interesting information about where all these diseases have been coming from

YouTube
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

The tl;dw is, Wuhan's wet markets are a breeding ground for these diseases due to the gray area they operate in under the Chinese government
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Old 2020-03-14, 22:22   Link #87
Yu Ominae
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https://www.globalresearch.ca/covid-...ted-us/5706078

Here's the journal I mentioned. Be warned that the backers are very, very left.
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Old 2020-03-14, 23:08   Link #88
ramlaen
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An amusing thought with all the lockdowns, pay attention for any spike in birth rates around the new year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yu Ominae View Post
https://www.globalresearch.ca/covid-...ted-us/5706078

Here's the journal I mentioned. Be warned that the backers are very, very left.
The author lives in Shanghai, is a public employee and a quick check of the articles he has written shows a CCP narrative lean. I stopped reading after the insinuation that lung damage from certain vaping products was actually Wuhan Coronavirus.

Last edited by ramlaen; 2020-03-14 at 23:19.
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Old 2020-03-15, 01:26   Link #89
Key Board
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magin View Post
I
YouTube
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?
I'd just like to clarify one thing.

You don't get infected with an animal virus just by consuming it.
Viruses have spikes which determine the range of host they can infect.
So an animal virus can only infect an animal cell.
This is why human viruses can't affect pets and vice versa.. usually.

However, a virus spike can mutate. This usually happens when there is both a human virus and an animal virus in the same body.
During virus assembly, they don't always get the spike they are supposed to. Sometimes they acquire a spike from a different virus.
Imagine building 2 anime figures at the same time and you accidentally place a limb of one figure or another. That's viral mutation.
If that happens their host range can change. That's how we get things like the Coronavirus

If I had to blame something, it would be that it's a live animal market rather than it being exotic or wild.
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Old 2020-03-15, 01:46   Link #90
OH&S
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yu Ominae View Post
https://www.globalresearch.ca/covid-...ted-us/5706078

Here's the journal I mentioned. Be warned that the backers are very, very left.
Its best to go straight to the sources provided to get a clearer picture of whether the author is BS-ing.

Most of the sources are pretty good. Enough for me to say that there is credible evidence that the Huanan Seafood Market in Wuhan, China may not be the true origin of the virus.

That said, the article's more inflammatory claims (like " it has now been proven that it did not originate in China but was brought to China from another country") appear unfounded or come from this one source: Fantastic: This super bat has finally appeared!.

Evaluating it is impossible for me as its in Chinese but needless to say, I'm skeptical.
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Old 2020-03-15, 03:03   Link #91
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grifis View Post
At this point the only option is to pick a theory of the origin of the virus. Hard evidences are destroyed and there is no access to the source. You can choose to believe whatever China says. They do have a few versions started with the wet market then after that was proven false they moved to the theory someone who worked at Wuhan lab got contaminated from a specimen. I thought I saw a fleeting moment when that was on weibo hot search. Then now China lays the blame on the US. I'm pretty sure if the US wants to attack and destroys China, it would be more deadly and hitting Beijing and Shanghai at the same time. To me, it's not the question of whether the virus was from their lab but rather whether it was intentional or not.

If China has nothing to hide, why not let the international community verify. And people probably don't know many scientists have China's money in their pockets. It's not that China is afraid of losing face or fear that the international community sees them through. China's worst fear is the revolt from their own people. And I admit they have done a great job brainwashing the people hate the US. They're in complete control, psychologically and physically. For those who are currently cursing the US for being big brother, you eventually will find out how it is like when China is big brother after the US falls.

There is a lot of hysteria on social media/ media about the virus. I see drama on there then get on another normal day in real life. The contrast is interesting. The drive across state line is smooth because there was no traffic. Some people at Asian supermarkets are wearing masks. I have some masks from way back when but I'm not even using it yet. There's a stigma.
Hard evidence exists in the viral genome. It is very unlikely to be engineered. If it leaked from a Chinese lab, all it means is that the CCP fails again in exercising control where it is needed, not that this virus is now going to wipe out modern civilization. In other words, where it comes from now, matters more to the CCP saving its own face/ass and maintaining legitimacy in the eyes of its people than for the average person.

And BTW, if it's intentional, it's got to be the dumbest move in the history of the post WWII era. Unleash a pandemic that also affects yourself to what end?

Quote:
They do have a few versions started with the wet market then after that was proven false they moved to the theory someone who worked at Wuhan lab got contaminated from a specimen
That was repeated in the fake "research paper" on the Guangdong scientist's Research Gate. It doesn't look like it's from him and is the work of hackers or trolls. It said some scientist was contaminated after a flock of bats peed on him in the lab. That sounds quite unlikely in any halfway decent animal lab TBH


Quote:
If China has nothing to hide, why not let the international community verify. And people probably don't know many scientists have China's money in their pockets. It's not that China is afraid of losing face or fear that the international community sees them through.
Because if deficiencies in their response are made public they lose ground with their own people? It doesn't suddenly imply they deliberately released a virus for some reason





Quote:
Originally Posted by mangamuscle View Post

What worries me the most is the possibility of further mutations, atm covid-19 has two strains, but it could return next autumn (which is what happened during the spanish flu pandemia a century ago) with a new strain for the which any immunity already in place i people that survived does not affects it.
The two strain thing is still unclear, might be statistical artifact, but there are numerous mutations already. Not clear yet if there's functional differences though or just mutations in non-functional sites. None so far appear to be affecting the viral antigen binding sites



Quote:
Internationally renowned scientists are probably as respectable as the Havard chemist chief that got arrested for working for Wuhan lab and get paid 50k/ month + some millions from China
Most of the scientists writing papers on this are nobodies like you and I
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Old 2020-03-15, 05:52   Link #92
MeoTwister5
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Some of the centers in our country are so out of supplies that some doctors and nurses are using a single mask, usually a single day's use, for nearly 3 days worth of work.

Fucking hoarders.
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Old 2020-03-15, 06:08   Link #93
Yu Ominae
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FT has an article that talks about the EU not being able to help Italy, which gave the Chinese Red Cross the opportunity to come.

Note that the Italians invited them since they jumped in.

Quote:
Emergency doctors in Italy, the European epicentre of the coronavirus pandemic, were this week given guidance on “catastrophe medicine”. As the number of patients requiring intensive care balloons and hospitals run out of intensive care beds, doctors were instructed to “aim to guarantee intensive treatment to patients with the greatest chance of therapeutic success”.

With the grim task of selecting patients unlikely to survive, Italy’s health authorities have pleaded with the countries’ friends and allies for emergency supplies. On Thursday, they finally arrived — from Shanghai. The China Eastern flight brought a medical team and 31 tonnes of supplies including ventilators.

Beijing’s gesture has reinforced a perceived lack of support from Europe, compounded by a communications blunder by the European Central Bank president Christine Lagarde, who implied on Thursday it was no longer her job to keep Italy in the euro.

When Italy asked for urgent medical supplies under a special European crisis mechanism no EU country responded. Fearful of its own shortages, Germany initially banned the export of medical masks and other protective gear. 3M, a producer, said the German restrictions had made it impossible to supply the Italian market. Berlin subsequently relaxed the export rules, but then Austria closed its borders to people arriving from Italy unless they could prove they were virus-free.

The rebuffs are nourishing resentment that Italy has been abandoned by its European friends. It is a perception that has taken root over a decade, of a currency union that lacks collective solidarity and stifles growth as Italy confronted migrant flows from Africa and the Middle East. This, in turn, has fuelled the rise of Eurosceptic nationalists such as far-right firebrand Matteo Salvini.

“It is back to the future, where Italy is left on its own,” said Nathalie Tocci, director of the Institute for International Affairs in Rome. “It was the case with the eurozone crisis, then the migrant crisis of 2015-16 and now the coronavirus crisis. It is the same old story and the political implications could be massive.”

As Rome’s anger mounted this week, Ursula von der Leyen, the European Commission president, tried to reassure Italians the EU was on their side, promising flexibility over EU deficit rules and a €25bn investment fund for fighting the crisis across the bloc. But the warm words from Brussels were soon drowned out by a message from Frankfurt.

Christine Lagarde’s comment that it was not the ECB’s job to “close the spreads” between 10-year Italian government bonds and German Bunds — a measure of the risk differential between the two sovereign debts — caused it to spike by 60 basis points, the biggest daily increase on record. The FTSE MIB, Milan’s blue-chip stock index, plummeted 17 per cent, its biggest daily drop, out-slumping other equity markets on a terrible day for investors around the world.

“Italy needed help and it has been given a slap in the face,” said Matteo Salvini, leader of the nationalist League party who said he would look into seeking compensation from the central bank.

He added: “The only help that has come from Europe has been to cause the collapse of the stock market and to make the spread go crazy. Yesterday Italy lost €68bn of savings.”

Giorgia Meloni, leader of the far-right Brothers of Italy party, attacked Ms Lagarde as an “evidently inadequate” ECB president.

“In 2012 faced with an economic crisis the Italian Mario Draghi used a bazooka to calm it,” she said. “Today his French successor Christine Lagarde decided to use a boomerang, with a surreal statement that caused the collapse of the stock market.”

Hours after Ms Lagarde spoke — the ECB a day later insisted it “stood ready to do more” — Sergio Mattarella, Italy’s president, unusually spoke out to say that a country in crisis expected “initiatives of solidarity and not obstacles to action”.

“The job of the central bank should not be to hinder but to help such measures by creating favourable financial conditions for them,” said prime minister Giuseppe Conte.

The spike in the spread — a popular metric in Italy since the eurozone debt crisis — reinforced a narrative that when a crisis hits, the country is on its own.

Ms Lagarde’s comments appeared to undo the work of her Italian predecessor, Mario Draghi, who was instrumental in restoring confidence that Italy could remain in the eurozone, while echoing the sentiments of hawkish German policymakers, said Ms Tocci.

It did not help that Ms Lagarde’s explosive remarks about “lo spread” — as the Italians call it — won approval from Jens Weidmann, president of Germany’s Bundesbank.

The EU could yet put in place a co-ordinated rescue package for Italy, including Italian bond-buying by the ECB.

But Ms Lagarde’s comments had exposed “an underlying vulnerability in the eurozone centred on Italy’s precarious economic position”, said Kenneth Wattret, chief European economist at IHS Markit. To fix the economic damage of the severe travel disruptions and quarantine restrictions would require the ECB to monetise Italy’s debt or a bailout, he said.

“It is the elephant in the room and this crisis is bringing it home because Italy is now at the heart of the crisis in Europe,” Mr Wattret added.
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Old 2020-03-15, 08:04   Link #94
TheForsaken
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grifis View Post
If China has nothing to hide, why not let the international community verify.
Why should China? What do they gain from allowing a bunch of outsiders to get inside their country sniffing around?
If there are a bunch of dudes showing up and demanding you to let them search your house, you will agree without any question, right? After all, you have nothing to hide.
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Old 2020-03-15, 08:15   Link #95
Sheba
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The God Emperor, my friends

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...KBN2120IV?il=0
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Old 2020-03-15, 10:22   Link #96
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yu Ominae View Post
https://www.globalresearch.ca/covid-...ted-us/5706078

Here's the journal I mentioned. Be warned that the backers are very, very left.

Obvious CCP shill that guy is aside, I'll actually try to counter his claims. Note, I'm not a virologist....my field is immunology.


First off, the thing says TV Asahi had a report blaming the US for being the virus source. Ironically, the only sources claiming this are Chinese and South Korean. Among Japanese sites, these are the only things I could find

http://japannews01.blog.jp/archives/50532885.html

https://www.moeruasia.net/archives/49659968.html

https://twitter.com/search?q=%E3%83%...rc=typed_query

There is no primary report there. Might have been scrubbed but the main sources are Chosun Ilbo and the Global Times.....which are infamous for being full of shit.

Instead, searching Feb 21 for TV Asahi reveals this:

https://kakaku.com/tv/channel=10/pro...odeID=1340631/

Quote:
アメリカではインフルエンザが猛威をふるい、今シーズンはすでに患者約2600万人、死者約1万4000人 に上っている。そんな中、CDCがインフルエンザではないと断定したものについて新型コロナウイルスの疑い があると発表した。インフルエンザの疑いがある患者の検体を調べたところ、実際にはインフルエンザではなか ったものもあったという。ニューヨークやロサンゼルスなどの大都市で大幅な検査体制の見直しが始まった。感 染の実態が把握できていない理由に、健康保険の未加入者が多く、医療費が高額で医者に行かずに自己判断に頼 る人がいるという事情があるという。CDCは直接は言及していないが、アメリカでも新型コロナウイルスの感 染が拡大している可能性を指摘する声も上がっている。
TL;DR, US Flu season is pretty bad, there's a possibilty a portion of the casualties are from coronavirus. But that's something that has been suspected around the world since forever given air travel.

Way to take a report out of context and twist it to "coronavirus source is America."



The Taiwanese virologist's theory is also full of holes. My Chinese is too shit to follow the vid but America is where everyone around the world goes to. Having various imported strains is not out of the question. Taiwan being infected by Americans or Australians is not out of the question because the virus has likely been spreading for much longer than officially reported.




Second, let's look at the actual science he claims as proof.

Yes, it's known the source is not the market but the wild animal supply chain extends to way further than just the market. This was known since the Lancet report that he cited and is the current assumption now internationally.

Neither Andersen's report nor the Lancet report discounts the source as being within China however. In fact bat coronavirus strains are common in wild animal handlers in southern China. here is another report by Andersen that gives a clearer picture:

http://virological.org/t/the-proxima...sars-cov-2/398

as well as two others comparing them to the RatG13 bat coronavirus from Yunnan:

http://virological.org/t/tackling-ru...AscTtbWRaB_wy8

http://virological.org/t/divergence-...n-relative/388

They agree these two viruses diverged around 1950s-1978. All reports agree SARS-COV-2 is not human engineered because the virus uses no reverse genetic systems used for such experiments and has a target receptor binding efficiency that came about through natural selection rather than the most efficient solution found in a computer prediction program. Due to the divergences from RatG13 also, RatG13 can't have been the basis from which this virus is modified.


On another note, certain theories also claim that the Wuhan BSL4 lab was doing experiments on coronavirus using a pseudovirus construct based on HIV and is thus proof the virus is modded with HIV characteristics as suggested by the now retracted Pradhan et al paper. Pradhan et al claimed that several inserts on SARS-COV-2 resemble HIV motifs. Their paper is linked here for anyone interested (https://www.biorxiv.org/content/bior...27871.full.pdf).

This paper has been refuted here and elsewhere, including on Twitter and Virological.org but certain theories still claim the HIV pseudovirus construct as supporting evidence that the so-called HIV-like motifs were artificially engineered into SARS-COV-2.

However, the published work most frequently cited for this is a 2008 paper by said Wuhan BSL4 lab. Here, the group wanted to study if replacement of SARS-like coronavirus receptor binding domain with that of SARS could facilitate infection of human cells in order to study differences between receptor binding mechanisms of the two virus types. To this end, they employed the HIV-based pseudovirus system (pNL4.3.Luc.R−E−-Luc) which incorporates SARS S-protein with HIV P24 capsid protein. However, this construct does not contain viral genomic material required for replication and instead replaces it with a luciferase reporter (that essentially causes a glowing effect so infection of test cells can be confirmed by a reader machine).

This is a common tool known to anyone who does molecular biology regardless of their field. If anyone tried to weaponize it, it would be recognized immediately, otherwise it is akin to mistaking a water gun for an actual firearm.
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Old 2020-03-15, 11:33   Link #97
Toukairin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheForsaken View Post
Why should China? What do they gain from allowing a bunch of outsiders to get inside their country sniffing around?
If there are a bunch of dudes showing up and demanding you to let them search your house, you will agree without any question, right? After all, you have nothing to hide.
Sounds like they have learned nothing since the SARS pandemic.

Epidemiologists' job is to trace the source as far back as possible and then compile facts. It's all that matters when lives are at stakes, but I guess that is a step too far for the Chinese government when they only care about making money in the short term instead of considering long-term ramifications.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
That is disgusting. Xenophobia and greed in full display.

The world is led by a bunch of greedy idiots who do not measure the value of human lives.

Last edited by Toukairin; 2020-03-15 at 11:51.
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Old 2020-03-15, 13:05   Link #98
aldw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toukairin View Post
Sounds like they have learned nothing since the SARS pandemic.

Epidemiologists' job is to trace the source as far back as possible and then compile facts. It's all that matters when lives are at stakes, but I guess that is a step too far for the Chinese government when they only care about making money in the short term instead of considering long-term ramifications.
Having trained in epidemiology and statistics I am well aware of how much those with a political axe to grind (such as western political ideologues and media) can and will interpret and insinuate the worst with whatever data they can acquire regardless of what the actual conditions and circumstances on the ground are, while simultaneously accusing their target of doing the same. This is true regardless of whether it is China, Russia, Iran et al as long as it fits the desired narrative.
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Old 2020-03-15, 13:11   Link #99
ramlaen
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https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/14/w...-zhiqiang.html
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Old 2020-03-15, 16:01   Link #100
Heep
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https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2020...rmany-usa.html
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