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Old 2021-04-18, 03:04   Link #81
Nachtwandler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zztop View Post
About how many volumes could the anime cover?
Actually, judging by the pace, we'll get first cour covering just vol. 1. And second core will cover 2 more presumably.
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Old 2021-04-18, 03:26   Link #82
sierra117
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Originally Posted by Tenzen12 View Post
Those students were future handlers so it make sense they know, though.
Other than Lena, literally no other Handler took their job seriously and just use the time to slack off, playing around or screw with the 86s up, so they being future handlers or not have no meaning in keeping that secret
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Originally Posted by zztop View Post
About how many volumes could the anime cover?
By the look of thing 1st cour will probably cover the 1st volume while the 2nd cour will cover up to either 3rd or 4th volume
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Old 2021-04-18, 03:47   Link #83
Yu Ominae
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Sharing some interesting photos on the Juggernaut specs and the AAR:

Spoiler for Space preservation:
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Old 2021-04-18, 04:20   Link #84
Tenzen12
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Originally Posted by sierra117 View Post
Other than Lena, literally no other Handler took their job seriously and just use the time to slack off, playing around or screw with the 86s up, so they being future handlers or not have no meaning in keeping that secret
And what it has to do with anything? Regardless whether they will take it seriously or not, they will still work with processors. Keeping it secret from them is waste of time.
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Old 2021-04-18, 04:36   Link #85
Kakurin
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Originally Posted by Tenzen12 View Post
Regardless whether they will take it seriously or not, they will still work with processors. Keeping it secret from them is waste of time.
Yes, but considering that a lot of handlers aren't exactly discreet people and on top of it other parts of the military apparatus (such as the logistics department as mentioned by Annette in episode 1) know about this as well, it is also a waste of time to keep it secret from the general population. Even more so considering that there isn't exactly a meaningful opposition against the discriminatory treatment of the 86.
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Old 2021-04-18, 04:41   Link #86
Tenzen12
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So there might be some rumors out there, big deal.
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Old 2021-04-18, 04:45   Link #87
sierra117
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Originally Posted by Tenzen12 View Post
So there might be some rumors out there, big deal.
The point is that there is no meaning in keeping that secret in the first place because most of the population don’t give a damn about that
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Old 2021-04-18, 05:31   Link #88
Kakurin
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Originally Posted by Tenzen12 View Post
So there might be some rumors out there, big deal.
I think we are getting away from the original topic. The original topic was whether the government of the Republic of St. Magnolia is hiding the fact that the 86 are piloting the Juggernauts. Well, hiding something is a an active action and as long as the majority of the population accepts the discrimination of the 86 as non-humans, there is no point at all for the government to spend any energy doing that.
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Old 2021-04-18, 05:34   Link #89
Tenzen12
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But that's exactly what's happening though. Pilots are called "processors", mechas "unmanned drones" and war is "bloodless". Juggernouts are compared to legion as "superior drones".

And it make perfect sense because when you face sea of actual massproduced drones it's better to have own unlimited massproduced drones instead of 86ers. After all while they aren't humans, their number is still limited, which is certainly reason to feel danger from legion. Not to mention it makes republic R&D look better, which is important part of propaganda. Deny existence of pilots is far superior propaganda then just dehumanisation of 86ers (which is probably second line of defense so noone cares when they hear some "conspiracy theories")

Not mention, we actually don't know if those operators are sloppy with keeping secrets, just because they can be sloppy with lifes of processors. Just because you can get away with one thing noone gives damn about doesn't mean you can get away with other that can get you into jail. It was same during communism. Noone did their job properly and they would even steal materials and goods, but having wrong ideas, that was the line.
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Last edited by Tenzen12; 2021-04-18 at 05:45.
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Old 2021-04-18, 05:39   Link #90
Kakurin
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Originally Posted by Tenzen12 View Post
But that's exactly what's happening though. Pilots are called "processors", mechas "unmanned drones" and war is "bloodless". Juggernouts are compared to legion as superior drones.
But you are flipping around the order here. What happened first was not the 86 being designated processors, but them being stripped of citizenship and even the status as human beings. Once that happened and was generally accepted, the fact that they are not "pilots" but "processors" and the war being a fight between "unmanned" drones without human casualties is just the (twisted) logical extension of that, so there is no point in actively hiding anything.

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Originally Posted by Tenzen12 View Post
After all while they aren't humans, their number is still limited, which is certainly reason to feel danger from legion.
As long as you do not state how many Juggernauts you lose but rather always trumpet victories and the end point of the war is in sight there is no reason for the population to feel danger. The regular population is siloed so it's not like they notice anything from the war other than not having access to natural agricultural produce.
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Old 2021-04-18, 05:54   Link #91
Tenzen12
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Because obviously slopy operators who can't keep mouth shut about 86ers (according to you), are really good in keeping secret when it come to Juggernaut losses...

Anyway whole you reasoning is too complex to really work. Propaganda need to be simple. 86ers aren't human, that's why it's fine to forsake them. Period. Juggernaut are unmaned. Period. There is no reason to draw line between two.
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Old 2021-04-18, 06:18   Link #92
Kakurin
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Originally Posted by Tenzen12 View Post
Because obviously slopy operators who can't keep mouth shut about 86ers (according to you), are really good in keeping secret when it come to Juggernaut losses...
Two things here, first, do the handlers even care enough to know how many they lost on their watch? And two, what's the incentive for them to talk about it? They can brag about how inhuman the 86 are, but they can't really brag about "hey I lost a whole squadron on my watch today".

Quote:
Anyway whole you reasoning is too complex to really work. Propaganda need to be simple. 86ers aren't human, that's why it's fine to forsake them. Period. Juggernaut are unmaned. Period. There is no reason to draw line between two.
The reasoning is not complex at all, to make it simple for you:
86 aren't human --> no humans piloting Juggernaut, i.e. unmanned. There is no reason for them to actively hide anything once the discriminatory policy against the 86 has been taken without opposition by the population because from their point of view it is a fact.
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Old 2021-04-18, 06:34   Link #93
sierra117
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Originally Posted by Tenzen12 View Post
Because obviously slopy operators who can't keep mouth shut about 86ers (according to you), are really good in keeping secret when it come to Juggernaut losses...

Anyway whole you reasoning is too complex to really work. Propaganda need to be simple. 86ers aren't human, that's why it's fine to forsake them. Period. Juggernaut are unmaned. Period. There is no reason to draw line between two.
No, the Republic entire logic centered around: because the 86s aren’t human, so if we make them pilot the juggernaut, then the juggernauts are unmanned, because it isn’t human that are piloting them, but livestocks, there is no need to care about livestock’s “casualties”, so there is no need to keeping it secret in the first place
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Old 2021-04-18, 07:43   Link #94
Haak
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Not wanting to get involved in this but I just want to make one point: sometimes propaganda doesn't make sense because it's not supposed to be interpreted literally. For example, during the annexation of Crimea when Putin talked about "little green men", we all knew what they actually were. It's doublespeak.
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Old 2021-04-18, 08:01   Link #95
sierra117
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Originally Posted by Haak View Post
Not wanting to get involved in this but I just want to make one point: sometimes propaganda doesn't make sense because it's not supposed to be interpreted literally. For example, during the annexation of Crimea when Putin talked about "little green men", we all knew what they actually were. It's doublespeak.
But in this case the Republic means literally every single word in their propaganda
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Old 2021-04-18, 08:58   Link #96
Tenzen12
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Originally Posted by Kakurin View Post
Two things here, first, do the handlers even care enough to know how many they lost on their watch? And two, what's the incentive for them to talk about it? They can brag about how inhuman the 86 are, but they can't really brag about "hey I lost a whole squadron on my watch today".


The reasoning is not complex at all, to make it simple for you:
86 aren't human --> no humans piloting Juggernaut, i.e. unmanned. There is no reason for them to actively hide anything once the discriminatory policy against the 86 has been taken without opposition by the population because from their point of view it is a fact.
Just stop for moment and think it through. You are jumping into conclusion that everyone knows something, because people who cannot not know and nothing else supporting it.

Even if you were right, it would be still nothing more then just lucky guess.
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Old 2021-04-18, 09:19   Link #97
sierra117
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Originally Posted by Tenzen12 View Post
Just stop for moment and think it through. You are jumping into conclusion that everyone knows something, because people who cannot not know and nothing else supporting it.

Even if you were right, it would be still nothing more then just lucky guess.
Most of the population may not know that, but that was because they don’t care, not because it was hidden or anything
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Old 2021-04-18, 09:53   Link #98
Frontier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yu Ominae View Post
Sharing some interesting photos on the Juggernaut specs and the AAR:

Spoiler for Space preservation:
English looks good .

(Lena is so beautiful ).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakurin View Post
Two things here, first, do the handlers even care enough to know how many they lost on their watch? And two, what's the incentive for them to talk about it? They can brag about how inhuman the 86 are, but they can't really brag about "hey I lost a whole squadron on my watch today".
I mean, Lena's seemingly the only one who actually does the proper paperwork to the point where she caught on to how nobody noticed Shin's been filing the same report for who knows how long...not that Shin's happy about it .
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Old 2021-04-18, 12:55   Link #99
Kakurin
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Originally Posted by Tenzen12 View Post
Just stop for moment and think it through. You are jumping into conclusion that everyone knows something, because people who cannot not know and nothing else supporting it.

Even if you were right, it would be still nothing more then just lucky guess.
You are way overthinking it. There is no incentive for the government to actively spend resources and energy hiding something for 9 years for something that nobody really cares about. Once the population accepts the relegation of minority peoples to non-human status why would they care enough about those non-humans being used as parts for some weapons to be a threat to the government that needs to be suppressed? Makes no sense. It's not like the 86 are thrown into gas chambers for mass execution.

But let's just agree to disagree.
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Old 2021-04-18, 13:29   Link #100
Klashikari
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Honestly, the one thing that makes me a bit ambivalent towards the series is the borderline cartoonish aspect of the racism.
Sure, racism itself is irrational, so characters acting like bunch of villains when it comes to people with different ethnic features isn't really that surprising. But it is difficult to imagine a country that boasts about noble values while doing stuff that is blatantly against the former. I realize they don't see non alba people as "humans", but with little to no context for that, this part of the story feels incredibly shoehorned. I believe the series should have been more thorough with the infodump regarding the history of the country to make it less jarring.

Meanwhile, considering how haughty the Republic is portrayed thus far, I wouldn't be surprised if their assumption regarding the Empire or the Legion is flawed. There is no guarantee the AI didn't evolve after so many years. In other words, the chances that the machines might have circumvented their lifespan limitations are probably quite high. So this is going to look like a very ugly downhill battle on the long run, especially given that the population of the 86 has probably dwindled hard over time if no Alba takes the war seriously.
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