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Old 2021-05-04, 19:03   Link #161
Thor's Hammer
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While I don't rule out that Masumoto might be an evil AI, mostly in part due to Episode 5 in which it behaved very suspiciously, I believe some people on other forums seem to be incapable of even following basic things the show presents.

Episodes 3-4 devoted a whole plotline about how merely copying an AI's experience data was not enough to make another AI identical to the AI the data was copied from as shown by how the Lifekeepers tried to make Elizabeth into a perfect copy of Elizabeth. They think that if Grace's experience data was copied into K-5 that everything would be all and good, but no, the show already disproved that notion in the previous arc. How can they not even follow something as basic as this? The Matsumoto is evil angle because he wouldn't save Grace has no basis in reality whatsoever.
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Old 2021-05-05, 04:53   Link #162
Liddo-kun
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a few more thoughts on episode 6.

saying she wouldn't just marry any person humanized Grace imo. If she was just a dumb robot, she would marry anyone who proposed to her. But for some reason, she likes Saeki, and would marry only him.

also it is clear Saeki cares about Grace, because if he only cared about her looks, he already had the K5 ai. Sad that he never got laid with his waifu..

and noticed after rewatching.. after Saeki died, and Vivy had blood in her hands. The light of the circle on her neck is turning red.. which is not a good sign.. I remember the rampaging robots on episode 1 had the circular light on their neck color red.
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Old 2021-05-06, 07:41   Link #163
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Well...I was very disappointed by that episode. It's getting increasingly hard to care about anyone but Diva/Vivy. That episode reminded me of Ride Your Wave spamming its core songs to the point they lost impact, which this also did. Frankly, the last minute of this episode was the only bit that didn't feel thin.

Hope things pick up next time.
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Old 2021-05-08, 12:23   Link #164
Ragashingo
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Episode 7

Hmmm. So, Vivy suffered a fatal error at the contradiction between her mission of making everyone happy with her singing, and her songs essentially being the things that killed Grace and all the other AIs of Metal Float. Presumably, Matsumoto got her away from the island so she could be found and rebooted. When that happened, her memories related to the Singularity project and even her identity as Vivy were sealed away.

And that was some 40 years ago?! Someone check my math:
Diva was 1 year old when the Singularity Project began. (Age 1)
She went to Sunrise 15 years later. (Age 16)
She went to Metal Float 5 years after that. (Age 21)
Now, she is 61?! That's a 40 year jump, right?

I was confused at first because they mention 12 years, but it sounds like that's the Zodiac Sign festival that's 12 years old this time around.

There's a few interesting things about this episode that I think need to be addressed:
1. Diva clearly has some limited access to her past memories. She threatens to turn Navi into a calculator, the same thing Elizabeth threatened to do to her. She muses about how Humans stare in awe when confronted with something awe-inspiring... just like Estella said about Humans seeing space. She tells the new stage worker to simile in front of the guests. And probably a few more little things I don't remember now. So, her past experiences are still in there somewhere. Just suppressed or locked away.
2. Terrorist Boy is around... but is not old?! It's clearly him. He has the scar. He is wearing the piano keys(?) around his neck. He leads Diva into a trap. So... why isn't he old? If he was 15 or so during the building bombing... he should be almost in his 80s by now! Is Diva also repressing memories in real time so that she's seeing things not as they are? Could it instead be Terrorist Boy who rescued her from Metal Float and is using her??
3. Why did Ophelia commit suicide originally? She seems nervous, sure, but suicide? Was it really suicide? Estella didn't really crash Sunrise. Maybe Ophelia's suicide was really murder? Toak interfering once again?

Anyway, fascinating episode. It'll be interesting to see if Vivy reemerges next time and how badly that will devastate Diva. I'm super curious about Terrorist Boy's apparent age. It shouldn't be a son or relative... not with the same scar. Cloning? An android body? Something else??
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Old 2021-05-08, 12:56   Link #165
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Spoiler for Episode 7:
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Old 2021-05-08, 14:46   Link #166
Kazu-kun
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I'm not at all happy that Diva lost her memories. On one hand, it's understandable that she suffered a break down and hard reboot considering she contravened her mission and life purpose. For an android, that must be a big NO. That been said, losing her memories now is really cheap and convenient since it allows the writers to keep her helping Matsumoto without having to deal with the emotional conflict they set up last episode. That's cheap, writer-san, that's very cheap.

Here's hoping she gets her memories back soon or I will just drop this.
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Old 2021-05-08, 16:26   Link #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
I'm not at all happy that Diva lost her memories. On one hand, it's understandable that she suffered a break down and hard reboot considering she contravened her mission and life purpose. For an android, that must be a big NO. That been said, losing her memories now is really cheap and convenient since it allows the writers to keep her helping Matsumoto without having to deal with the emotional conflict they set up last episode. That's cheap, writer-san, that's very cheap.

Here's hoping she gets her memories back soon or I will just drop this.
I'm 99.9% sure that Diva recovers its memories in the next episode, so you'll probably watch this series until its natural conclusion. So far, all of Vivy's stories are 2-parters, and I see no reason why this will change for this current arc.
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Old 2021-05-08, 18:07   Link #168
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An AI commited suicide, that's is interesting but there is always something behind like the sunrise incident.

I like ophelia, maybe is the dress but her song was great too.
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Old 2021-05-08, 18:41   Link #169
Ragashingo
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I think I might have come up with a plausible theory of what happened to Vivy. I think she suffered a fatal error... I mean actually a fatal error. As in she died or was in the process of dying in that church with the blood of humans and AIs on her hands. But, we've also seen a Sister-class AI forget its past and reboot to an earlier, happier state. Elizabeth did so once Vivy delivered Matsumoto's reset virus to her via head butt. Elizabeth woke up with no obvious memories of her past... just like Diva.

What if Matsumoto, who must have surely still been around at Metal Float, did the same thing to Vivy. What if he wiped her after seeing the trauma she suffered? What if he saved her from a fatal error in progress or he rebooted her to a happier state after she suffered a complete fatal crash? She got home somehow. She got repaired somehow. Matsumoto has done both of those things for her before.

I think maybe her new life as Diva is something of an apology from Matsumoto for putting her through everything he did. If so, it's very neat and very tragic that she is angling back to being his sidekick once more!
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Old 2021-05-08, 19:55   Link #170
Thor's Hammer
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Originally Posted by Ragashingo View Post
I think I might have come up with a plausible theory of what happened to Vivy. I think she suffered a fatal error... I mean actually a fatal error. As in she died or was in the process of dying in that church with the blood of humans and AIs on her hands. But, we've also seen a Sister-class AI forget its past and reboot to an earlier, happier state. Elizabeth did so once Vivy delivered Matsumoto's reset virus to her via head butt. Elizabeth woke up with no obvious memories of her past... just like Diva.

What if Matsumoto, who must have surely still been around at Metal Float, did the same thing to Vivy. What if he wiped her after seeing the trauma she suffered? What if he saved her from a fatal error in progress or he rebooted her to a happier state after she suffered a complete fatal crash? She got home somehow. She got repaired somehow. Matsumoto has done both of those things for her before.

I think maybe her new life as Diva is something of an apology from Matsumoto for putting her through everything he did. If so, it's very neat and very tragic that she is angling back to being his sidekick once more!
I don't think Matsumoto rebooted Diva. I get the sense that it just sent Diva back to Nierland like it did when Diva's arm had broken off after Episode 2, and someone else rebooted her. Otherwise, I believe Diva's reboot wouldn't be common knowledge. I think you're giving Matsumoto too much credit here.
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Old 2021-05-08, 21:13   Link #171
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Originally Posted by Thor's Hammer View Post
I don't think Matsumoto rebooted Diva. I get the sense that it just sent Diva back to Nierland like it did when Diva's arm had broken off after Episode 2, and someone else rebooted her. Otherwise, I believe Diva's reboot wouldn't be common knowledge. I think you're giving Matsumoto too much credit here.
Except none of the staff are aware that she been rebooted, they just note she is suddenly different. Matsumoto can hack into her mind anyway so rebooting her wouldn't be a problem. The only who know & would be able to do that is him. It would explain why he's trying to avoid her & refusing to answer any of her question until Vivy forces it out of him.

She is obviously gonna have to confront her past and comes terms with it but it will be a harsh experience for her. But one that should grow her not make her runaway.
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Old 2021-05-08, 22:18   Link #172
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Old 2021-05-08, 22:20   Link #173
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Back in episode 6, has anyone noticed that Kakitani's (Toak leader) right arm looks kinda odd? After he helps Vivy by shooting the robot, from the hand to below the elbow, the skin tone is paler than the rest of his skin tone, divided by a trail of dripping blood. Could be just blood lost or his wounds surfacing after shooting or something. I just find it odd and I see no one noticing from what I can see.
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Old 2021-05-09, 00:04   Link #174
Ragashingo
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Originally Posted by gunner56 View Post
Back in episode 6, has anyone noticed that Kakitani's (Toak leader) right arm looks kinda odd? After he helps Vivy by shooting the robot, from the hand to below the elbow, the skin tone is paler than the rest of his skin tone, divided by a trail of dripping blood. Could be just blood lost or his wounds surfacing after shooting or something. I just find it odd and I see no one noticing from what I can see.
I definitely see it. His right forearm and hand are a shade lighter than his upper arm or left arm. The lighter skin tone does seem to be consistent even back in episodes 3/4 and 5/6. Always a shade lighter even taking things like shadows and lighting into effect. That said, we get a view of his right arm up to the elbow as he straps his big combat knife over his left shoulder.... and there's no obvious issues with his right arm. No scar or change in skin tone. I'd say definitely keep an eye on that arm. I'm guessing he was involved in some sort of AI related accident or tragedy that turned him against AIs, so who knows, it might have involved the loss of an arm or part of an arm, but there's no obvious confirmation yet.

One other thing I noticed while going through is that the Sing My Pleasure OP has a transparent but still fairly centrally featured shot of someone playing the piano. I'm almost certain, now, that the piano and Terrorist Boy's past are coming back into focus before the series ends.
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Old 2021-05-09, 01:44   Link #175
thundrakkon
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I've noticed that every single incident that Vivy had to be involved in that affected the course of history, the anti-AI group is always there and involved with it. It's beginning to look like the reason for the AI revolt in the future has to do with anti-AI group. If they never existed, then the war might not have happened.



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Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?


Which is a bit confusing concerning the Zodiac festival. In the image she access, it stated that it is "20th Zodiac Signs Fes", yet when she said it, she said they were celebrating the 12th Zodiac Signs Fes. I'm wondering if they screwed up the image and put 20th instead of 12th.


As for the Metal Float, they said it happened many years ago, so the Fes did not necessarily start right after. So yes, 39-40 years sounds about right.
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Old 2021-05-09, 02:23   Link #176
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Ophelia is super cute. Let's hope Vivy can rescue her and we don't get another tragedy next week.

I am actually getting a bit annoyed that the show is dragging the entire backstory of terrorist guy out so much. That's simply trying to keep things mysterious way past the point where we should have learned what his deal really is. But then again, the writers clearly want to give him and his cause a somewhat sympathetic vibe, because presumably there'll be a twist in a few episodes.

The entire show hinges way too much on only showing us these two episode setpieces and then quickly summing up decades on end between the setpieces, so that we are not able to really digest the wider context. It's not uneffective, but leaves a mile and a half open for speculation.

At the very least AI's are now fully accepted beings in human society, even if there are apparently people who openly attack them.

I confess, by this point I've pretty much have given up on the possibility of Matsumoto being overtly evil (still amoral to let those people on the plane die in episode one). This episode gave his personality enough leeway to finally shed him of the overwheening arrogance he displayed before, humanizing him in a way which makes it seem much more unlikely that his final objective is just to incite the AI revolt.
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Old 2021-05-09, 02:34   Link #177
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
At the very least AI's are now fully accepted beings in human society, even if there are apparently people who openly attack them.

I confess, by this point I've pretty much have given up on the possibility of Matsumoto being overtly evil (still amoral to let those people on the plane die in episode one). This episode gave his personality enough leeway to finally shed him of the overwheening arrogance he displayed before, humanizing him in a way which makes it seem much more unlikely that his final objective is just to incite the AI revolt.
Yeah, Matsumoto is probably not evil or even the mastermind of the incident in the future. However, the fact that the advanced androids are accepted in human society brings home the fact that Matsumoto's original plan of destroying all advanced androids is not the right way to stop the war in the future. The androids deserve to live as much as humans do.

That's another reason I hope Diva gets her memory back soon. I'm hoping she can figure out a way to stop the war without having to sacrifice more androids as well as the people who are involved with them like the guy last episode. I don't think those sacrifices are acceptable just for the sake of the future. Specially considering the war might have been caused by the humans who hate androids like the guys from Toak, for all we know.
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Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2021-05-09 at 02:55.
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Old 2021-05-09, 06:42   Link #178
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I'm pretty sure these guys are gonna be the actually antagonists. Matsumoto implied they have been the biggest beneficiaries of the AI's growth. This plot thread have been suspiciously kept in the background despite that. Its highly likely AI technology was birth from them, but their actual plans for it are something else.

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Originally Posted by Applehell View Post
Agreed. According to what Matsumoto said about this at the end, we can assume that tower has something to do with Al committing genocide 100 years from now as coincides with their rapid evolution.



There is something very suspicious about this too



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Old 2021-05-09, 07:37   Link #179
Last Sinner
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Sigh....

I'm done with this. What felt like ascension for a fair while has collapsed.

This whole 'monster of the week' cliche being converted into 'save the future of the fortnight' got old and then some.

Visuals took a noticeable dive this week. The hair shots for a 2 minute stretch looked like they never went through quality control. Colours and lines looked flat at several points.

Then to pull what they did in Episode 7...this is cheap emotional blackmail.

Spoiler for Ep 7 blackmail:


Not to mention the ingrate Vivy keeps saving does or says almost nothing. He's meant to be integral to this all yet we know sweet bugger all about him?

There needs to be more reasons to care about this than Diva/Vivy. And I get the feeling things are about to go very Jun Maeda in the near future.

Also frustrates me than Jun Fukuyama's voice talent is being wasted like this. This is criminally wasteful like Tsuda Kenjirou being a mere narrator in To Your Eternity.

I honestly thought this series was meant to be about more than just the feels. But it seems that is not the case. Yet it is so emotionally cold because characters that aren't Diva/Vivy or Matsumoto feel too darn similar and the reasons for induced empathy get too darn repetitive.

Temporary characters can work well. Mushishi being an obvious example. But this just doesn't feel like it's even trying. Gave it a fair go because I gave a damn about Diva/Vivy but I can't bother anymore after an utter throwaway episode that has all the signs of being rushed and not knowing how to get to its endgame.
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Old 2021-05-09, 11:35   Link #180
Kazu-kun
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Temporary characters can work well. Mushishi being an obvious example. But this just doesn't feel like it's even trying. Gave it a fair go because I gave a damn about Diva/Vivy but I can't bother anymore after an utter throwaway episode that has all the signs of being rushed and not knowing how to get to its endgame.
I agree. Since this show is partitioned in little two-episode arcs, the key to make it work is using the little time they have in each arc to make the temporary characters relatable and sympathetic, but they're failing pretty badly at this. For example, after a whole episode all we learned about Ophelia is that she admires Diva and loves singing. That's no nearly enough to start giving a damn about her potential suicide.

A good example of how to make this kind of format work is Violet Evergarden. Just like this show, Violet was also composed of one or two-episode arcs, but unlike this show, Violet actually put the effort to make us care about the temporary characters and the payoff was huge. Heck, that arc about the girl who receives letters from her dead mother made me cry like a little girl. You just can't get that kind of reaction if you don't flesh out the characters properly.
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Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2021-05-10 at 13:18.
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