Macross Delta - Episode 24 Discussion / Poll

[SleepingTerror]

@HirouKeimou Thanks. Point sorta still stands - it was risky, they were in unnecessary danger, and they were forced to use the backup plan.

Originally Posted by ippus

it baffles me that anyone who likes Freyja

Worry about your own issues. The show might be bad, but Freyja's one of the best things about it. Can't complain about Freyja's build up when you've got Mirage right next door

Wouldn't she have had a far better case to put before Heinz if there were even just a small handful of Windermereans who are evident in their support for her side of the story? Wouldn't the absolute-ist...of judgment been far more relevantly frustrating than straight up pointless and bad?

Or you know, she could not want her friends to be in danger. Be labeled as traitors as she is, since obviously Windermereans have hearing and comprehension issues. And what side of the story? All her "crimes" were done after she left, the best thing they could have said was she was such a good girl back at home, and they would have said let's end her suffering once and for all (or something).
Everyone can put up a better case and do a better job, all the time. But what's done is done, they had guns pointed at them, the atmosphere was awful, Freyja's first time back and she gets treated like this - I don't care because they could have said anything and they would have still been sentenced to death.
Again, is it solely Freyja's responsibility to say the "right" thing? Cause last time I checked, there were two people right there with her, and they sucked.

UHGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

I feel you bro

[ippus]

@SleepingTerror: Worry about my own what issues exactly? Please keep on spouting words.

I like how your view of the regular Windermereans shift drastically according to the argument you want to make. The mental gymnastics must be tiring seeing as one moment:

Originally Posted by SleepingTerror

Have you forgotten she's from Windermere? That until recently, she was welcomed there and lived there? I think she would very much notice if people there still had a grudge towards the outsiders

to

Originally Posted by SleepingTerror

Or you know, she could not want her friends to be in danger. Be labeled as traitors as she is, since obviously Windermereans have hearing and comprehension issues. And what side of the story? All her "crimes" were done after she left, the best thing they could have said was she was such a good girl back at home, and they would have said let's end her suffering once and for all (or something).

So if I want Freyja to reflect the thoughts and feelings of a regular Windermerean apparently she's already doing so and I'm crazy, but if I want her to interact with a regular Windermerean and I'm still crazy because they're a psychopathic lynch mob completely unlike her and more like the royalty/knights/people in power who wants her to return to the wind? This is exactly why some form of interaction with the regular folks (ie, HER VILLAGE) would have been relevant but god forbid I say that. They all be crazy. or not. Who knows. Who even cares.

I'm not asking her to be perfect, I'm asking her to act according to the environment she is in and i want the show to actually show us legitimate understanding of the world they've created rather than constantly teasing things to the nth hour and hoping a coherent characterization exists.

And no, Freyja is not better than Mirage's characterization. I may think of the latter fondly (pre23-24...I have to say this) but I'm in no way unaware of the fact that Mirage needed to have been dealt with much better. it's not a point I even need to broadcast because we have you extremists ready at every turn to diss the living crap lights out of her anyway so why even bother. That being said, Mirage doesn't have the kind of responsibilities Freyja as a character has. Mirage doesn't need to care about the well-being of Windermere, honestly speaking she has no ties with that. Freyja does.

Unless she doesn't, in which case iunno...Windermere's treatment of her as a filthy traitor is actually valid then.

[SleepingTerror]

@ippus
I thought it was obvious but I guess not.
>Freyja knows her homies (I'm guessing, since it isn't explicitly stated) don't want trouble.
--My point of saying this is to compare them to the army, who do want trouble. Also that the wellbeing of Windermere has never been a legitimate reason for starting the war.
>Freyja knows she's branded as a traitor, and she knows why.
>Freyja doesn't bring up her hometown and doesn't use people there to speak her thoughts.
--Super important point you continue to miss. Did you forget Freyja asked about her hometown, to make sure no one was hurt when the army was searching for the intruders?
>Why does she do this? Because they would be branded as traitors.

My argument has never once been contradictory. It has been consistent, not unlike your constant need to insult Freyja.

Originally Posted by ippus

Unless she doesn't, in which case iunno...Windermere's treatment of her as a filthy traitor is actually valid then.

And I suppose you're gonna tell me you're definitely not taking sides.

[Thess]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with how Freyja interacts. Even the Windermerian manga makes a difference between capital folks vs country side (with Keith being ignorant of the ways of the countryside).

It's like taking a country bumpkin and throwing them in a formal audience with Queen Elizabeth II and expect them to know protocol and etiquette. It's unrealistic. She was able to communicate with Cassim just fine because he's a fellow country bumpkin and apple farmer.

Also you seem to forget she looked at Mirage and Hayate before she answered and they gave their OK.

I have no idea why you're 'frustrated' the scene was excellent to put the contrast of Freyja vs Heinz. Freyja is rebellious and she's someone who sings with her heart, moved by emotions and being sincere with her personal goals. Meanwhile Heinz tries hard to uphold windermerians ideals (of those sold in the nobility), he refuses to sing for himself, or to pour feelings into his song, being duty bound to die for an abstract idea of justice he cannot grasp but adults keep telling him it's good.

It was really well-done scene IMO. It has been foreshadowed for a while too.

[ippus]

@SleepingTerror: I've 'insulted' virtually everyone at different points in time. You're just hyper sensitive to the Freyja parts because the moment I mention her a prolonged argument about it erupts. Because unless I'm bashing Mirage or Fanning Freyja's ass it's not a valid thing to say.

And no, you said Windermereans have hearing and comprehension issues. If you can't be bothered to state which Windermereans you are referring to I frankly have no intention of making your argument for you as you clearly have no interest in seeing my point of view as anything other than bashing.

Originally Posted by SleepingTerror

And I suppose you're gonna tell me you're definitely not taking sides.

Well are you saying that Freyja doesn't care about Windermere? Because that's the only scenario in which-

Originally Posted by ippus

Unless she doesn't, in which case iunno...Windermere's treatment of her as a filthy traitor is actually valid then.

-can mean I support Windermere.

[SleepingTerror]

Originally Posted by ippus

And no, you said Windermereans have hearing and comprehension issues. If you can't be bothered to state which Windermereans you are referring to

So that's what you're up and about for? The three wings, the king, and the knights, and everyone who supports the war, there. Did you really think I was talking about the Windermere civilians? Lol.

[Mistyclear]

^That tends to happen when you state the name of the race rather than just the upper echelons.

[-Antares-]

After realizing the song Mikumo sings at the end of this episode has Arkan in its title (Mayan word for "star," go figure) I decided to look up the lyrics to Heinz's songs. I have no idea how I didn't manage to pick out any of these words before, even after listening to those songs repeatedly outside of the series because I like them a lot. Now I feel silly.

It looks like Delta's setting up for an endgame situation similar to Zero's. If they reuse its ending again too I'm going to be very annoyed. It was a very fitting ending, I thought, in the entries of the franchise it was used in... but they've already used and reused it. I'd prefer unique stories in the franchise to have unique endings instead of reusing the same one over and over again just because. I'm not convinced it would really suit Delta all that well, anyway.

Now, what I WOULD like to see is Heinz singing along with the remnants of Walküre for the finale. And maybe if we could hear Hear The Universe properly in one of these remaining episodes... I know hoping for Delta to clean up its plot and characters is too much to ask at this point, but maybe I can at least have these few things happen.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by -Antares-

Now, what I WOULD like to see is Heinz singing along with the remnants of Walküre for the finale. And maybe if we could hear Hear The Universe properly in one of these remaining episodes... I know hoping for Delta to clean up its plot and characters is too much to ask at this point, but maybe I can at least have these few things happen.

Well, considering he was replaced by Mikumo, maybe he'll sing with his heart. I'm not sure if with Walkure, but I suspect he'll sing to help Keith or the Aerial Knights.

[SleepingTerror]

Originally Posted by Mistyclear

^That tends to happen when you state the name of the race rather than just the upper echelons.

If you read it in context, it would make perfect sense. That and it was like the millionth time I stated that argument, paraphrased. Let's not forget I wasn't the only one referring to the 'upper echelons' by the race. A petty thing to fuss over; asking for clarification at most was all that was necessary.

[HirouKeimou]

Originally Posted by SleepingTerror

@HirouKeimou Thanks. Point sorta still stands - it was risky, they were in unnecessary danger, and they were forced to use the backup plan.

The whole rescue mission and final minute of the episode is plot convenience in my eyes because:
1) How do those Windermere guards who followed the trio for the execution even miss all three (Freyja and Mirage are running a straight line!) while firing their guns? Especially Hayate who is standing around waiting for Freyja and Mirage to jump off the ledge with him so he's a sitting duck! These guys obviously need lasers for aiming...
2) I'll give all three fighting a free pass that the climatic showdown begins with all three paired up with antagonists but once Makina is shot... where are those antagonists? The three dudes are flying around going "Makina is shot!" "Are you serious?" "Gr." Where... where did our climatic showdown go!?
and 3) The three singers open up a fold for Chaos to come through right after Makina is shot? And how? Because it's something they needed all five girls for in episode 22.

I like how they're adding all these scenes for drama; however, some bits of it do come off a little stupid. It's entertaining to watch but confusing for the plot itself. It's like you build up "she is necessary for this" and then totally load up a "oh, we can do it without her" out of the blue...

[Thess]

I think it's already established that pilots from both sides take a break off-screen in Macross Delta during battles. Maybe to eat a sandwich or go to the bathroom.

At least this has been consistent...

[HirouKeimou]

Originally Posted by Thess

Maybe to eat a sandwich or go to the bathroom.

They're microwaving popcorn during battle scenes with all this glaring and nothing going on and eating it during intermissions.

Poor girls...

We need S.M.S. back; it's the only unit which could ever do something for protecting their singers...

[Father Hentai]

Originally Posted by HirouKeimou

The whole rescue mission and final minute of the episode is plot convenience in my eyes because:
1) How do those Windermere guards who followed the trio for the execution even miss all three (Freyja and Mirage are running a straight line!) while firing their guns? Especially Hayate who is standing around waiting for Freyja and Mirage to jump off the ledge with him so he's a sitting duck! These guys obviously need lasers for aiming...

Because Windermere use the H&K G36