Schwarzesmarken - Episode 10 Discussion / Poll

[Kairin]

Welcome to the discussion thread for Schwarzesmarken, Episode 10.

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[Nozomu Itoshiki]

@Last Sinner, seems like you were completely wrong. The anime is going to follow the LN in terms of what happens in the story.

Goodby Lise it was a good ride while you were alive, people like you deserve to die for all what you did. Despite my own opinion about the show I need to say the scene where Theo execute Lise was really good, this time they portrayed the feeling of the scene almost equal to the LN.

Everything else was super rushed, yeah they're trying to fit too much information and scenes into the last episodes but well, I'm not going to complain since Lise got what she deserves and again, that scene was just glorious.

[Stark700]

Ah, a fitting end for Lise. Yes, I also think she got what was coming to her after putting others through pain and suffering including Pham in the previous episode.

This is definitely something Theodor will never forget either though.

[B214]

So they just changed the way Theodor dispose of Lise. Well not really that surprise though.

[Botan_TM]

Looks like rule "do not entry city with tanks without infantry" applies to TSF too.

[Nozomu Itoshiki]

Originally Posted by B214

So they just changed the way Theodor dispose of Lise. Well not really that surprise though.

Pretty much, the change on the way how she was executed don't mess with the meaning of that scene, basically is "I accepted she's too broken and twisted so I must need to fulfill my duty, save her from this despair" and both scenes (LN and anime) showed that.

[blitz1/2]

Hmm...So, is it debatable if Lise's piloting skills are above THeo? Or do you think this is just due to the mecha's performance?

[FlareKnight]

While perhaps necessary it does basically make the efforts of Pham utterly meaningless. Maybe it was impossible to make it have meaning, but somewhat a shame to see Theo give up so utterly on it. Especially when he never really made a great effort in the first place.

In the end it's just a great big mess. Lise such a messed up person because of those past few years. Ironically in some ways she was right. The only person she really cared about ended up being the one who killed her. Very likely beyond being saved, though who knows. The big thing was that she couldn't believe in the change being possible. Capturing her and then making that happen could have been the first step on a long road to recovery.

But at the same time her actions basically lean towards this being a fair response. A victim that was messed up to the point that she became a monster.

Don't think there's any way that Theo comes out of this though. The blood on his hands isn't going to wash away. Not the innocents caught up in his ambush nor his sister's.

Good luck as well getting support from Western Germany. Use the messenger as bait and then what do you show her? An ambush in the middle of a city. The Stasi are pretty evil, but the Rebellion isn't doing much better at making their argument. On top of that they are cooperating with Stasi anyways with Axman.

What a time for Kirke. Seems like she's always having the wrong opinion. She didn't have much faith in Eastern Germany during that exercise and was wrong on that point. Now it seems like her faith in the 666 is probably wrong and betrayed.

[Seihai]

I am absolutely devastated by Lise's death. Theo, I thought you were a great pimp. But no, you decided to change your class to Imouto Slayer. First slayed in bed, then slayed for real. Truly sad, and his line about saving Lise irks me to say the least.

[B214]

Originally Posted by Seihai

I am absolutely devastated by Lise's death. Theo, I thought were a great pimp. But no, you decided to change your class to Imouto Slayer. First slayed in bed, then slayed for real. Truly sad, and his line about saving Lise irks me to say the least.

He's a Stasi slayer.

Jokes aside, Theodor seriously can't afford to give any special treatment much less spare Lise at this point anymore. Besides, if Lise continue to side with the Stasi, she'll eventually be killed too, just by someone else or alien invaders, it would be much better for Lise to get killed by her brother than some stranger/thing.

[Last Sinner]

So be it, Nozomu. I still attest Lise's death could have been utilised in a better way, is all.

But that wasn't glorious. It was tame...Episode 9's face-off had bite. This was merely going through the motions.

That battle was so utterly pathetic...The Stasi simply walk into an obvious trap and get whitewashed? That's very hard to conceive.

A better idea to allow Lise one more fight compared to the rather contrived mere capture and execution of the LN. But still....if this is what it takes to try and rectify Theodor's shortcomings as a protagonist, it was rather weak. Never thought for a moment Lise didn't deserve to die - she knew the evils she had committed. But considering she went through the most hell, she deserved some form of revenge against those that broke her. When a slave/dog/have-not has nothing left to lose, that is when they are at their most dangerous and capable of one thing their overseers don't expect. It would have been glorious. But this will have to do.

I don't exactly see the 666th/rebellion as righteous. Less bastardly, yes. But when you're willing to use West Germans like Kirke as a means to an end and particularly when you've made a deal with the devil in Axmann, is there really much to be proud of? Would Irisdina have resorted to this? Theodor's way of resolving things may have some tactical merit to it but as a person he is an utter imbecile. There will be consequences and I hope he and the rest of the 666th are ready to accept them.

Oh well, you reap what you sow....Some people are about to get what they deserve. And that's why I'll see this through to the end.

And as for this whole adaptation....if you're only going to adapt the bones of the LN and make the odd slight improvement along the way....why the hell even do it? There was a chance to do more impactful divergences by showing off part of what the VN had to offer. There's no surprise for the fanbase in Japan anymore - they know what's coming. A wasted opportunity is what this will amount to, in the end.

[MgMaster]

I'm fcking sad man...even if Lise had it coming, in the end she was a VERY unfortunate victim. I was still hoping she'd be captured or at least have a part in killing Axman. At least she died smiling...

Don't get me wrong though, the scene was powerful and very well done. Farewell to the most interesting character in Schwarzesmarken.

Now, If Irisdina isn't rescued then I don't know how Theodor's gonna manage to hold himself together.

[Nvis]

Sad, but had to happen.

[Last Sinner]

Originally Posted by MgMaster

I'm fcking sad man...even if Lise had it coming, in the end she was a VERY unfortunate victim. I was still hoping she'd be captured or at least have a part in killing Axman. At least she died smiling...

She was captured in the LN. The rebels interrogated her about Irisdina's location then ordered Lise's execution. Theodor did it and Lise never resisted.

For the record, the only sane words she said during her execution are likely what she said in the anime that didn't have subtitles - 'Please forget me.'

Don't get me wrong though, the scene was powerful and very well done. Farewell to the most interesting character in Schwarzesmarken.

It was a move up from how the LN did it, yes. Lise was definitely the most different/intriguing character in this adaptation and could have been utilised far better.

Now, If Irisdina isn't rescued then I don't know how Theodor's gonna manage to hold himself together.

Do you really want him to hold it together, though?

[Wandering Soul]

RIP Lise. In a brighter series Theo might have found a way to save Lise from herself, but this isn't a light and happy series. It's too bad she never got some form of revenge against the Stasi and Axman.

I have to agree that Lise was the most interesting character in this series.

[MgMaster]

Originally Posted by Last Sinner

Do you really want him to hold it together, though?

Damn straight I do. He could've shown more concern for Lise & try to get her on squad 666th' side(during their intercourse might've been a good time...) but with so many crappy events happening in his life, I can't fault him for not always making the best decisions.

I guess the bright side in all this is that now he has more in common with Iris. Kinda sad there was no proper romantic development between them though and it feel's one-sided on Theodor's part, time constraints be damned.

[Last Sinner]

Originally Posted by MgMaster

I guess the bright side in all this is that now he has more in common with Iris. Kinda sad there was no proper romantic development between them though and it feel's one-sided on Theodor's part, time constraints be damned.

This is the part where Nozomu convinces you to go after the LN/VN....

Originally Posted by Wandering Soul

RIP Lise. In a brighter series Theo might have found a way to save Lise from herself, but this isn't a light and happy series. It's too bad she never got some form of revenge against the Stasi and Axman.

I have to agree that Lise was the most interesting character in this series.

Nice to know other people think it was a viable outcome. Lise was beyond salvation but some revenge against Axmann would have been so very appropriate.

[yanzzy5]

Wow that fight scene made me want to play titan fall again. Bringing down a giant mech with nothing but a pistol and exco suit was really gratifying

Anyway poor lise brain washing really is a terrible tool, even in the end she still has major trust issues and doesnt trust other causes other than hers.

[Top Sergeant]

And so Lise's story has come to an end. She might have been saved from that fate, but in the middle of a war for survival there was no time to spare for her. Now they must continue to fight the Stasi, and no doubt Axman is playing his own game, thinking he can run the tables on everyone.

[Nachtwandler]

Originally Posted by Last Sinner

This is the part where Nozomu convinces you to go after the LN/VN....

Unfortunately only vol.1 of LN is translated and we won't get any more in the nearest future. The only option is to wait for official VN translation (demo will come with original trilogy with full version of both parts sometime in the future).