AnimeSuki Forums

AuraTwilight · 2010-10-17, 15:29

To be fair, aside from Rika, those were all culprits of a sort.

Judoh · 2010-10-17, 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

The highest paid actors in Umineko's anime adaptation are Daisuke Ono and Sayaka Ohaka. So um....not helpful.

Really? I thought it might be "Ore wa Jack Bauer" also known as Rudolf. Since he does commercials too.

The japanese REALLY LIKE 24 for some reason!

theacefrehley · 2010-10-17, 16:42

Well,
We can also take into consideration the amount of lines.

Seyuus with more lines, like Battler/Ono certainly get more money, but, proportionally, someone with a few lines (like the parents' seyuus) might be more expensive.

For example, something like:
1 line from Ono = X
1 line from Rikiya Koyama 'Jack Bauer' = 1,5X

Since Ono has like 20 times more lines than Koyama, he is 'better' paid.

Take a read on these articles (it's about eroge, but I think it can give a better insight of the whole stuff):

http://zepy.momotato.com/2010/04/21/eroge-seiyuu-costs/
http://zepy.momotato.com/2008/09/09/eroge-production/

Now we just need to find how much each one of the seyuus costs...

And try to find the culprit

Leafsnail · 2010-10-17, 16:46

...Wait, seiyuu's for eroge get offended if certain words are in the game...?

I do quite like the idea of paying for plot by the kilobyte, though. Hey... maybe that's how Ryukushi is paid!

Will Wright · 2010-10-17, 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judoh

Really? I thought it might be "Ore wa Jack Bauer" also known as Rudolf. Since he does commercials too.

The japanese REALLY LIKE 24 for some reason!

That would be because 24 is awesome. And so is Rudolf.

Used Can · 2010-10-20, 09:38

So, I was thinking, what are the chances that the whole furniture deal was based on Edogawa's "The Human Chair"?

AuraTwilight · 2010-10-20, 13:37

Pretty likely.

Jan-Poo · 2010-10-20, 14:04

Well then what about the furniture women of Soylent Green?

AuraTwilight · 2010-10-20, 16:14

That one's probably a bit more of a stretch.

Renall · 2010-10-20, 17:29

Then again, in the latter case, it was people. It's people!!!

AuraTwilight · 2010-10-20, 22:24

Beelzebub approved.

Oliver · 2010-10-21, 06:11

It just occurred to me.

In Umineko parlance, "Witches" are mystery novel writers who pose puzzles to the readers, the Detectives. That much has been clear for quite a long time.

However, once Knox and Van Dine laid down their rules, why are they and characters associated with them presented as anti-witch characters? Weren't they mystery writers, and weren't their rules laid down for other mystery writers to follow, not for the readers to take advantage of?

Why are Dlanor and Will playing for the detective side, and are they really?

Jan-Poo · 2010-10-21, 07:04

Well in Dlanor's case she's not father Knox, she represents the rules. That's why she said her father did them. Also by telling that she killed her father because he broke one of his rules, it becomes apparent that he was a "witch" himself.

Will Wright's case is a little more ambiguous, but maybe even if it isn't apparent he still represent the van dine rules and not Willard Wright himself.

k//eternal · 2010-10-21, 07:35

You know how witches are able to just summon Dlanor and Will even though they're theoretically playing for the detective team? If you consider them embodiments of rules, then that makes sense, because that's doable just by the witch saying that her story follows the Knox or Van Dine rules.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oliver

However, once Knox and Van Dine laid down their rules, why are they and characters associated with them presented as anti-witch characters? Weren't they mystery writers, and weren't their rules laid down for other mystery writers to follow, not for the readers to take advantage of?

Why are Dlanor and Will playing for the detective side, and are they really?

Makes sense that in a mystery story you'd want to write in characters trying to solve the mystery. From a narrative perspective, that's probably the best way to include them.

Qaenyin · 2010-10-21, 08:26

Honestly the real question that needs to be answered is what question needs to be answered.

By that I mean is Umineko meant to be a mystery? A metaphor? Is the mystery who killed who in the first arc? Is the mystery the identity of beatrice? Is the mystery Battler's real identity/mother and the promise he made X years ago?

Whose story is this? Rokkenjima's? The Ushiromiyas'? Battler's? Beatrice's? None inparticular and the whole thing is just meant to be a metaphor for mystery writing?

Jan-Poo · 2010-10-21, 09:47

I personally think that umineko is a story about mystery novels but not itself a mystery novel.

Renall · 2010-10-21, 10:42

The witch/writer summons the rules to aid the detective/reader. Dlanor can only help Erika in the capacity she's allowed to, after all, and Bern basically gives Will full sanction. Since rules are a sign that the author is playing fairly (at least as concerns those rules), they are "given" to the reader to be used as a tool.

In that sense, it's perfectly reasonable why Dlanor would play for the detective side; that's what she does. She (the Knox Rules) are given by the witches (the writer(s)) to the detective (the reader), as a tool to be used. What Will is I don't know; I guess you could call him a reader who plays very strictly by the rules he's given (or whatever).

Qaenyin · 2010-10-21, 11:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renall

What Will is I don't know; I guess you could call him a reader who plays very strictly by the rules he's given (or whatever).

I always viewed him as a critic. Like an Ebert of mysteries.

Renall · 2010-10-21, 11:33

That's very possible. Especially when you consider the setup.

It almost feels like "Bern" (some reader or critic) had reviewed the many Rokkenjima stories and wrote an "answer" based on his/her ideas. This was then given to "Will" (another critic or an editor) who read the story, dialogued with the writer, and arrived at some criticisms about the answers given (while providing his own set of orthodox-conforming solutions to the ep1-4 mysteries).

Now whether that's actually what happened or just a metaphorical interpretation, I don't know. That stuff could all be pulled out my rear.

AuraTwilight · 2010-10-21, 13:39

I interpreted Will as being identical to Dlanor in this regard; a personification of rules. However, that doesn't mean he can't be a Detective. Erika offered Dlanor that role during her wedding to Battler, and Beatrice is a crafter of Games, despite being a personification of rules.

2010-10-17, 16:42	Link #18143
theacefrehley Guitar Man Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Brazil	Well, We can also take into consideration the amount of lines. Seyuus with more lines, like Battler/Ono certainly get more money, but, proportionally, someone with a few lines (like the parents' seyuus) might be more expensive. For example, something like: 1 line from Ono = X 1 line from Rikiya Koyama 'Jack Bauer' = 1,5X Since Ono has like 20 times more lines than Koyama, he is 'better' paid. Take a read on these articles (it's about eroge, but I think it can give a better insight of the whole stuff): http://zepy.momotato.com/2010/04/21/eroge-seiyuu-costs/ http://zepy.momotato.com/2008/09/09/eroge-production/ Now we just need to find how much each one of the seyuus costs... And try to find the culprit __________________ []'s from Ace

2010-10-20, 09:38	Link #18146
Used Can Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008	So, I was thinking, what are the chances that the whole furniture deal was based on Edogawa's "The Human Chair"? __________________ "The name is Tin; Used is just an alias. I'm everything Shoe Box would like to be." - Used Can of the Aluminium Kingdom

2010-10-20, 14:04	Link #18148
Jan-Poo 別にいいけど Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: forever lost inside a logic error	Well then what about the furniture women of Soylent Green? __________________

2010-10-20, 17:29	Link #18150
Renall BUY MY BOOK!!! Join Date: May 2009	Then again, in the latter case, it was people. It's people!!! __________________ Redaction of the Golden Witch I submit that a murder was committed in 1996. This murder was a "copycat" crime inspired by our tales of 1986. This story is a redacted confession. Blog (VN DL) - YouTube Playlists Battler Solves The Logic Error

2010-10-21, 07:04	Link #18153
Jan-Poo 別にいいけど Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: forever lost inside a logic error	Well in Dlanor's case she's not father Knox, she represents the rules. That's why she said her father did them. Also by telling that she killed her father because he broke one of his rules, it becomes apparent that he was a "witch" himself. Will Wright's case is a little more ambiguous, but maybe even if it isn't apparent he still represent the van dine rules and not Willard Wright himself. __________________

2010-10-17, 15:29	Link #18141
AuraTwilight The True Culprit Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The Golden Land	To be fair, aside from Rika, those were all culprits of a sort.

2010-10-17, 16:46	Link #18144
Leafsnail Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010	...Wait, seiyuu's for eroge get offended if certain words are in the game...? I do quite like the idea of paying for plot by the kilobyte, though. Hey... maybe that's how Ryukushi is paid!

2010-10-20, 13:37	Link #18147
AuraTwilight The True Culprit Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The Golden Land	Pretty likely.

2010-10-20, 16:14	Link #18149
AuraTwilight The True Culprit Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The Golden Land	That one's probably a bit more of a stretch.

2010-10-20, 22:24	Link #18151
AuraTwilight The True Culprit Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The Golden Land	Beelzebub approved.

2010-10-21, 08:26	Link #18155
Qaenyin Member Join Date: Aug 2010	Honestly the real question that needs to be answered is what question needs to be answered. By that I mean is Umineko meant to be a mystery? A metaphor? Is the mystery who killed who in the first arc? Is the mystery the identity of beatrice? Is the mystery Battler's real identity/mother and the promise he made X years ago? Whose story is this? Rokkenjima's? The Ushiromiyas'? Battler's? Beatrice's? None inparticular and the whole thing is just meant to be a metaphor for mystery writing?

2010-10-21, 09:47	Link #18156
Jan-Poo 別にいいけど Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: forever lost inside a logic error	I personally think that umineko is a story about mystery novels but not itself a mystery novel. __________________

2010-10-21, 10:42	Link #18157
Renall BUY MY BOOK!!! Join Date: May 2009	The witch/writer summons the rules to aid the detective/reader. Dlanor can only help Erika in the capacity she's allowed to, after all, and Bern basically gives Will full sanction. Since rules are a sign that the author is playing fairly (at least as concerns those rules), they are "given" to the reader to be used as a tool. In that sense, it's perfectly reasonable why Dlanor would play for the detective side; that's what she does. She (the Knox Rules) are given by the witches (the writer(s)) to the detective (the reader), as a tool to be used. What Will is I don't know; I guess you could call him a reader who plays very strictly by the rules he's given (or whatever). __________________ Redaction of the Golden Witch I submit that a murder was committed in 1996. This murder was a "copycat" crime inspired by our tales of 1986. This story is a redacted confession. Blog (VN DL) - YouTube Playlists Battler Solves The Logic Error

2010-10-21, 11:33	Link #18159
Renall BUY MY BOOK!!! Join Date: May 2009	That's very possible. Especially when you consider the setup. It almost feels like "Bern" (some reader or critic) had reviewed the many Rokkenjima stories and wrote an "answer" based on his/her ideas. This was then given to "Will" (another critic or an editor) who read the story, dialogued with the writer, and arrived at some criticisms about the answers given (while providing his own set of orthodox-conforming solutions to the ep1-4 mysteries). Now whether that's actually what happened or just a metaphorical interpretation, I don't know. That stuff could all be pulled out my rear. __________________ Redaction of the Golden Witch I submit that a murder was committed in 1996. This murder was a "copycat" crime inspired by our tales of 1986. This story is a redacted confession. Blog (VN DL) - YouTube Playlists Battler Solves The Logic Error

2010-10-21, 13:39	Link #18160
AuraTwilight The True Culprit Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The Golden Land	I interpreted Will as being identical to Dlanor in this regard; a personification of rules. However, that doesn't mean he can't be a Detective. Erika offered Dlanor that role during her wedding to Battler, and Beatrice is a crafter of Games, despite being a personification of rules.