[Game] Umineko - Spoilers, Theories, Interpretations

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Judoh

Seriously though. In Higurashi dying (or killing everyone else) supposedly turns you into a god.

Not a literal god but a symbolic one.

[Renall]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Not a literal god but a symbolic one.

Although there is a literal god, but dying won't make you them.

...the more I reflect on it, the more stupid Higurashi appears.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Renall

...the more I reflect on it, the more stupid Higurashi appears.

I find it's best not to think about it too much.

[Ayu-ayu]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Not a literal god but a symbolic one.

Oh, a witch...

(Lambdadelta=Takano's dream of godhood achieved?)

However, given that the world of Higurashi is clearly one where Shintoism (or R07's personal interpretation thereof) holds as Truth, then is there so much of a difference between a literal god and symbolic one (putting Meta-world applications aside)? Shintoist Japan is the land of myriad (or "8 million") animistic gods, with varying amounts of influence or lack therof on the natural world. A number of both good and downright rotten folks have been later enshrined as gods after their deaths.

It's relatively common (at least by my modest understanding of Japanese culture) to refer to one's deceased ancestors as having become gods. It doesn't seem unreasonable to me that this is the kind of godhood Higurashi is talking about, especially with the murky Shinto origins of Hannyu/Oyashiro-sama (oh yeah, oni can be gods too ). The term "kami" has very different possible implications and connotations than "god" does in Western culture (due to variants of an Abrahamic monotheistic god being more the norm in that case).

And certainly with the destruction of the Shinto shrine on Rokkenjima (and Erika's "mixed stories" theory), there is a clear link between what Umineko calls "witches" and locals call "kami" or "aragami", etc...

[UsagiTenpura]

Originally Posted by Renall

Although there is a literal god, but dying won't make you them.

...the more I reflect on it, the more stupid Higurashi appears.

Well if you want unrealistic stuff to hate sure Higurashi should work a lot that way.
Tho to be honest, I do wonder what kind of story you wouldn't find stupid or bad.


Edit : I'm thinking the oddest thing about Shkanontrice is the idea that Shannon had to wear progressively bigger fake breast without the Ushiromiya, specially Jessica, noticing. That sounds hard to pull off.
Actually about Yasu/Shkanon/Lion, Yasu seems to claim the accident is the cause of his/her ... uh... genitals/gender status.
In other words Lion is either a guy or a girl, most likely a guy, and Yasu an eunuch.

[musouka]

Originally Posted by Renall

Although there is a literal god, but dying won't make you them.

...the more I reflect on it, the more stupid Higurashi appears.

Spoiler for Higurashi:

The point of Higurashi was that Takano was trying to usurp all the natural positions associated with a god. The ability to control who lives or dies and immortality. As the game itself puts forth, she forgot a third, which is the ability to honestly judge and absolve people, impossible for her.

Really, of all the things to complain about in Higurashi, its perspective on godhood really isn't one of them, as it's one of the most interesting things about the latter games.

[Used Can]

Originally Posted by UsagiTenpura

Actually about Yasu/Shkanon/Lion, Yasu seems to claim the accident is the cause of his/her ... uh... genitals/gender status.

Yasu never claimed such a thing. All we know is that Yasu's body ended up with a serious injury after the fall, to the point Yasu claimed her body is "unable to love". Then she said that, because of that, you couldn't call her human, but furniture.

Readers assume this is one of the reasons she may have had to pull the murders, but Yasu herself never said this was the reason behind her actions.

[UsagiTenpura]

Not talking about reasons to make murder, I'm saying Yasu's body wasn't abnormal before the injury.

If you say they didn't say such a thing... they do say it.

[Used Can]

Uh... by accident I thought you meant the Rokkenjima incident for some reason, my bad.

But, either way, Yasu never mentioned anything about her sex or her genitals. All she said was what I wrote above.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Ayu-ayu

especially with the murky Shinto origins of Hannyu/Oyashiro-sama (oh yeah, oni can be gods too )

Isn't Hanyuu revealed to be a space alien in Matsuri or something? I'm not sure and I may be mistaken.

[Used Can]

As far as I know, Matsuri wasn't written by R07 and thus, it's not canon.

[Cao Ni Ma]

Just thought of another symbolism, 8 games revolving around one truth, Without love it cannot be seen.

[AuraTwilight]

Please elaborate, Cao?

[Cao Ni Ma]

There are 8 planets, there are 8 games. Without The Sun nothing could be seen in either of these worlds.

[AuraTwilight]

Fuck you pluto is a planet ;_;

[Leafsnail]

Originally Posted by Renall

Like dying in the meta-world ever stopped anyone but Erika.

I dunno, I'd actually be dissapointed if Erika came back. Her death seemed to have a... finality that the others lack? Y'know, being blasted to bit in a hail of bullets rather than just ceasing to exist or whatever.

Also... anyone thinking the whole kindof premise for these is biblical?

I mean, if we take a random biblical story... let's say the one about the fall of Jericho.

The Israelites probably conquered the city. The bible says they did this from God destroying the walls.

Now, is this what actually happened? Is it a malicious lie made up afterwards? Or is it a metaphor ("the strength of God was so strong in them they could easily tear down the walls")?

[UsagiTenpura]

Originally Posted by Used Can

Uh... by accident I thought you meant the Rokkenjima incident for some reason, my bad.

But, either way, Yasu never mentioned anything about her sex or her genitals. All she said was what I wrote above.

Ah yeah guess I wasn't very clear.
They do not specifically say anything about Yasu's gender nor Yasu's gender being altered/removed or anything, however Yasu does blame the accident as the reason to see his/herself as furniture and the whole physical complex.

The point is that before the accident Yasu had no physical complex, thus it's very unlikely that Lion is hermaphrodite or androgynous.

The genital assumption is because s/he says "a body unable to love". Not that I necessarily agree with that, but what else can s/he refers to?

[Kirroha]

How about that part where Lion got extremely sensitive about his gender?

[UsagiTenpura]

Admittedly that's odd, I'm not too sure about this tho.
One possible scenario is if Lion is a girl that was raised as a boy, but that's not very satisfying.
I guess I assumed this was only to basically dodge that question until the final arc.

Still Yasu's furniture complex is "because of that injury". Again, what else can it be?
An hermaphrodite who gets a wooden leg and complains they cannot love anymore because of the wooden leg or something along that line is just silly.

[Renall]

I've always seen more parallels to The Tempest than anything else, honestly.