KanColle - Historical references and History discussion

[Klashikari]

Welcome to the Historical references thread for Kancolle.

As you know, Kancolle makes a lot of references to what actually happened in the Pacific War during World War II. Therefore, it is very likely that some operations or characters are directly referring to these actual events from the past, which might not be obvious for some people.
In order not to clutter too much the other threads, please use this one for discussion related to these historical references.

However, please do not derail this thread to a dedicated thread about WWII or the Pacific War.

[Wild Goose]

Well, getting things started: the multicolored smoke when the four Kongo sisters pose in Episode 4 is based off the dye marker they used for their shells IRL.

[Xero8420]

Interesting to note that the CA-class kanmusus are teachers/lecturers, coaches, instructors and staffs. I'm curious about their careers in their fields that made them fitting to be these.

[KBTKaiser]

during the kongo role call, Hiei, Haruna, and Kirishima were showing their assembly dockyards before their black ship selves.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

Which is rather ironic, of Zuikaku, considering how that division no longer exists now

She replaces the 1CarDiv after AKKG got sunk at Midway.

And most of the 1CarDiv pilots dislike the 5CarDiv pilots since the latter are mostly greenhorns.

Does Kitagami not like destroyers for some reason? And moreover why >>

In the game her secretary line grumbles about destroyers.

IRL? We'll have to ask our resident historian here.

Originally Posted by Kakurin-san

Ashigara down there crying was quite cute, haha. In any case, in my opinion all Myōkos have a fantastic figure and legs.

Well their K2 art is all about the disco/bar. They are the adults of Kancolle, in contrast with the 6DD which are the Kancolle lolis.

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

She replaces the 1CarDiv after AKKG got sunk at Midway.

And most of the 1CarDiv pilots dislike the 5CarDiv pilots since the latter are mostly

I was referring to the admiral having dissolved CarDiv 1 and CarDiv 5 in EP 5.
Technically, and practically too, there are no CharDiv 1 and 5 anymore.

Escept of course this and next episode just tell the story from other ships perspective and are not in the right chronological order. (Would still be btter than the chronological order they pulled at Haruhi...)

[Kakurin]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

I was referring to the admiral having dissolved CarDiv 1 and CarDiv 5 in EP 5.
Technically, and practically too, there are no CharDiv 1 and 5 anymore.

CarDiv1 / 5 (like DesDiv6) are tied to the kanmusus themselves, rather than being solely an organisational unit like Torpedo Squadron 3.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

I was referring to the admiral having dissolved CarDiv 1 and CarDiv 5 in EP 5.
Technically, and practically too, there are no CharDiv 1 and 5 anymore.

Escept of course this and next episode just tell the story from other ships perspective and are not in the right chronological order. (Would still be btter than the chronological order they pulled at Haruhi...)

I used the CarDiv's as a reference to the original layout in the IJN.

There is alot of factionalism back in the Japanese forces back then when they rolled around the world. The IJA Malayan Command had lots of problems with HQ (some sort of rivalry between the Tojo ball-carriers and his detractors), and they weren't receptive of the IJN, which sat there and do pretty much nothing until Yamashita took over Singapore (the poor guy got sidelined by Tojo and was sent back to Manchuko).

It was until the Americans hammered them in Midway/Guadalcanal and started the Solomon campaign did they start having some sort coordination between the IJN and the 25th Army, under the Southern Expeditionary Army's Tokyo Express.

[Ithekro]

No reason for Kitakami to dislike destroyers in particular. She was designed as a light cruiser to lead destroyer squadrons. I was thinking it was a collision, but that was with the light cruiser Abukuma. maybe her duty changes when she was converted to a torpedo cruiser. but that would just make her lead of a night attack squadron for torpedo runs.

[HandofFate]

What's the ship lore of these 4 loli ship foursome group?

[Myssa Rei]

Originally Posted by HandofFate

What's the ship lore of these 4 loli ship foursome group?

The Akatsuki class of ships was the last of the Fubuki superclass constructed, and the only one to feature a member that, along with Yukikaze/Tan Yang, survived well into the Cold War before being scrapped -- Hibiki, who became Verniy (as a spoil of war given to the Soviet Union), then Decembrist.

[bhl88]

^ then scrapped as she was used for target practice.

[Ithekro]

Though that was in the 60s or 1970, around the time Yukikaze ended her career with Taiwan.

[Azuma Denton]

Originally Posted by HandofFate

What's the ship lore of these 4 loli ship foursome group?

Inazuma and Ikazuchi are famous for helping the survivors of the US Ships they destroyed during the battle in Java Sea around March 1942. Hence they were designed as the pure little kids.

[Estavali]

Originally Posted by Azuma Denton

Inazuma and Ikazuchi are famous for helping the survivors of the US Ships they destroyed during the battle in Java Sea around March 1942. Hence they were designed as the pure little kids.

There's a heartwarming doujin based on this: Kantai Collection - Things Which the Girl Saw

Imho one can't talk about Ikazuchi's humanitarian act after the Second Battle of the Java Sea without mentioning her then captain, lieutenant commander Kudou Shunsaku.

Spoiler for Life history:

7 Jan 1901: Born in to a farmer's family in Higashiokitama District, Yamagata.

1920: Enrolled into the Imperial Japanese Naval Academy in 1920.

1923: Graduated from the Academy and served as a trainee aboard the Izumo-class armored cruiser Iwate, following it far south to the waters of Australia and NZ, etc. Was assigned to Yuubari after completing his training.

Oct 1924: Assigned to Nagato

Dec 1924: Promoted to 2nd lieutenant. Enrolled into the IJN's torpedo and gunnery schools.

1926: Promoted to 1st lieutenant in 1926 and was assigned to the No.2 minesweeper.

1927: Served on DD Tsubaki (Navigating Officer)

1929: Served on DD Hatakaze (Navigating Officer)

1930: Assigned to Tama in 1930. Enrolled for advanced courses in the torpedo academy

1932: Graduation from the torpedo school. Then on until 1927, served on DD Momo, Choukai, DD Sagiri, Kuma, Tama again and Isuzu as torpedo officer except for Choukai, where he served as section commander.

1937: Promoted to Major.

1938: Became captain of DD Tachikaze.

1940: Assigned to shore duty, served as an instructor in the gunnery school and judge advocate in the military court in Yokosuka Naval Base.

Nov 1940: Assigned as captain of Ikazuchi.

Wikipedia's (rather stubby) entry on Kudou: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shunsaku_Kud%C5%8D

According to the Japanese and Chinese entries, Ikazuchi, along with Inazuma, had also saved 376 men from HMS Exeter on the previous day.

Kudou later became Hibiki's CO in Aug 1942 before assigned to shore duties once more from Dec 1942 onward. Due to health reasons, he was placed on standby w.e.f. 15 March 1945.

He returned to his hometown after the war, later moving to Kawaguchi, Saitama to help out at the hospital run by his wife's nephew. He would stay there until his death in 1979 due to stomach cancer. Kudou seldom talked about his experiences during the war, a self-imposed ban after Ikazuchi sank with all hands in 1944. Even his descendants didn't know about his humanitarian deeds until learning about it from Sir Sam Falle.

On his deathbed, he was visited by Ooi Atsushi, his old classmate from the Academy. Kudou's dying words to him were, "Please live on well. I'm just a big useless fellow (貴様はよろしくやっているみたいだな。俺は独活の大木だったよ)".

The man that would probably be like a father to the DesDiv 6 girls was blessed with a strong physique and had a dan in Judo. His warm and broad-minded character led to the nickname "Buddha Kudou" (工藤大佛). Influenced by Suzuki Kantarou who was principal during his Academy years, Kudou strictly prohibited the "law of the fist" under his command (which is rare in the oppressive Japanese military environment) and got along well with his men (ships where he was CO were said to have a comfortable feel). He was also a decisive leader and didn't sweat the minor issues, which earned the trust of his men. After the war, he never attended any of the IJN old boy gatherings but would instead pray before the Buddha every morning for the friends and subordinates that had died in battle.

[panzerfan]

Originally Posted by Xero8420

Interesting to note that the CA-class kanmusus are teachers/lecturers, coaches, instructors and staffs. I'm curious about their careers in their fields that made them fitting to be these.

All CAs in the Japanese navy function as detached fleet command ships which may lead torpedo squadrons, or they function in cruiser squadrons. As 'warships', they are held in way higher esteem than just inventory of the navy which destroyers were classified as.

[Ithekro]

The Battle of Savo Island (probably the largest single loss for the US Navy in the war) the Japanese had a line of five heavy cruisers, one of the 10 guns cruisers (Takao-class Chokai) leading the four 6 guns cruisers of the Furutaka and Aoba classes. These five heavy cruisers were leading two light cruisers (the at that time old Tenryuu, and the newer, slightly more advanced, Yuubari) and one destroyer, Yunagi, an old Kamikaze-class, older than the Mutsuki-class. (Yunagi's sistership Hayate has the distinction of being the first Japanese ship sunk in the war..before Kisaragi.)

These ships sank three American heavy cruisers and damaged an Australian heavy cruiser enough that it was scuttled several hours later. Two American destroyers were also damaged. Only three of the Japanese cruisers were damaged. Kako was sunk later by submarine on the way home.

[Estavali]

Disclaimer: This post contains findings from Japanese sources. As my grasp on the Japanese language is hardly assuring, chances are that I may have gotten something wrong in the process. Corrections if any will be greatly appreciated =3

I was browsing wiki for the 4th Fleet Incident and came across Fujimoto Kikuo, who was the IJN's main naval architect together with his senior, Hiraga Yuzuru.

Spoiler for TL:DR? =3:

According to what I've found on the Internet, compared to the conservative and stubborn Hiraga, Fujimoto was more receptive of new ideas and eagerly researched, experimented and incorporated the latest technology, such as electric welding and ship-mounted diesel engines, into his designs. Also, unlike Hiraga, his designs placed less emphasis on ship-to-ship combat and took ASW and AA into consideration. The Fubuki-class DDs that had shocked the world was his masterpiece; other works that bear his mark includes the Hatsuharu-class DDs and Takao-class and Mogami-class CAs.

Despite his talent, Fujimoto was not without faults. An easy-going man, he lacked Hiraga's force of character and was thus unable to reject the unreasonable demands placed on by the IJN higher-ups. An example was shown in the development of the Myoukou-class CAs, which were designed by Hiraga. Hiraga had previously argued against the installation of torpedoes on the Furutaka-class, reasoning that torpedoes had no business on a ship that relied on its main guns and would instead be a fatal liability should they explode on-deck (later developments in the war would prove him right). Though the navy over-rode his concerns on the Furutaka-class, he eventually succeeded in getting it to approve his torpedo-less design for the upcoming Myoukou-class. However, during their construction, Hiraga was sent to Europe for eight months and his successor, Fujimoto, was pressured by the navy to add in the torpedoes along with other changes to Hiraga's original design.

As a result of Fujimoto's compliant attitude, his final designs ended up top-heavy due to the amount of weaponry forced onto them (anime watchers, this is where Fubuki's initial lack of balance came from). His use of electric welding was also questionable at that time since the technology was still new in Japan and subsequently produced ships that were held together far too weakly compared to the more traditional use of rivets. This preference may have been from either an over-enthusiasm for new technology (which might have blinded him to its problems) and/or an attempt to create well-armed ships with tonnage that would still fall within the limit set by the treaties. In any case this created ships that would come apart in a heavy storm, as was what happened.

As a result of the aforementioned, Fujimoto was held responsible for the Tomozuru Incident and was placed under house arrest. A year later in 1935, he passed away with intracranial hemorrhage at the age of 46. As a protest, his supporters at IJN Technical Department held a grand naval funeral at the Aoyama Cemetary and, on the pretext of "doing spring cleaning", burnt much of the IJN's shipbuilding data and models since the Meiji era, leaving little for the returning Hiraga.

Regarding Fujimoto, a historian once said that the progress in IJN naval architecture stopped after Fujimoto died. There are even some who would go as far as to say that it regressed under Hiraga's watch. Personally I feel that neither nor Fujimoto should be solely blamed for the defects in IJN ship architecture. Instead, the real factors imho are Japan's, or rather its military's over-reaching ambitions which led to unrealistic demands on hardware; a battleship-centric policy that opt for a quick resolution instead of a sustainable long-term strategy; and behind all this, Japan's inferiority in financial and industrial strength, especially when compared to the US. To quote "On Seas Contested: The Seven Great Navies of the Second World War":

Because of scarce resources and limited facilities for technological innovation, made worse in wartime when Japanese manufacture found it hard just to replace combat losses, it was difficult to develop, test and produce new weapons and equipment. Even more importantly, the limitations on Japanese science and technology prevented Japan from developing complex and critical "second stage" technologies that were introduced by the United States including the radar, the VT (proximity) fuze, and forward-thrown antisubmarine weapons.

It's very hard for the engineers to work miracles in such unfavorable conditions.

That said, even if Japan had the financial and industrial capacity to meet the US, its chief imaginary enemy, straight-on, Hiraga's conservative approach was still an issue. Hiraga, like many in the IJN, he too embraced the "Big Ship, Big Guns" concept that was central to the battleship-centric strategy and failed to foresee the increasingly important role that submarines and aircraft carriers would come to play. His designs were thus unable to cope with the increasing need for ASW and AA combat, something that Fujimoto might have been averted to some degree had he been given the freedom to do as he wished.

Hiraga's skeptical attitude towards new shipbuilding techniques meant that he was also stuck with faults that came with tried-and-proven methods. For example, rather than to improve on the welding technique, he continued the use of rivets, which, while a sure method to hold the ships together, would also cause the ships to take additional damage when shelled. His mistrust in diesel engines and over-reliance on the "good old ways" also resulted in wasteful designs instead of streamlined ones that would have worked just as well. And what's worse is that he paid little attention to damage control (yet an area that Fujimoto had gone into). We all know what that led to...

If Yuubari and the Furutaka, Aoba, Myoukou, Sendai and Yamato sisters, all of whom were designed by Hiraga, can be considered to be his daughters, then Hatsuharu-class as well as the Mogami and Takao sisters would be Fujimoto's. In fact, some feel that Fujimoto should be credited for Yuubari instead, claiming that he was the real architect behind her creation =3


Btw, just in case you're wondering why the sudden interest in the 4th Fleet Incident, that's because of today's Fubuki Ganbarimasu (chapter 74) =3

Sources:

Wikipedia:

On Fujimoto Kikuo: JP entry, CN entry

On Hiraga Yuzuru: JP entry

Baidu (CN):

藤本喜久雄 (Fujimoto Kikuo)
平贺让 (Hiraga Yuzuru)
二战霓虹海军的急先锋..... (an article of the history of the IJN heavy cruisers)

Additional:

平賀「譲らないもん絶対」の平賀博士 @ 軍事ちゃんねる！！(JP)

[bhl88]

So Yuubari's little armor and top heavy was Fujomoto's idea? (was surprised at the lack of seaplanes for the light cruiser....)

[Estavali]

Originally Posted by bhl88

So Yuubari's little armor and top heavy was Fujomoto's idea? (was surprised at the lack of seaplanes for the light cruiser....)

That's if we can take the word of those who support that claim =3. In any case, I doubt Yuubari was meant to be anything but a sandbox for those two to play with. They probably just implemented everything that came to mind, like pot luck