[MANGA] Bleach Chapter 455 Discussion

[Wiggy Fuzz]

not to mention burnt off, teleported off, just plain aged to dust off...

when it comes to removing arms, bleach's creativity knows no bounds.

[Kallen4life]

yeah, Kubo seems to have something against arms ^^

[Fran~]

I gathered up some courage to read this and it was such a waste of time...
Srsly, What is in Kubo's head, what is he thinking?
It's like you pick up some random chapter from a manga and you try to understand what's going on. The only thing clear to me is that Kubo is arm-phobic... (yeah even in the anime filler we saw a missing arm ).

[Haak]

Well the story is heading in the right direction. But now it feels like it's going too fast. We had loads of chatpers on training and now it's rushed head first into a massive conflict. The pacing is definitely a little off (not to mention the content is still lacking) but otherwise it was passable. Ichigo going ninja was kinda narmish and Kubo once again demonstrates his arm fetish...

[Aqua Knight]

Pacing is a really complex thing, I think. When it's too slow - it's too dragged on, and reverse also true. But yeah I agree, the pacing is fast, especially with Ichigo running here and there, but it's nothing more than running and training. But remember when the new arc only started there was less of action and more talking.

[Fran~]

Originally Posted by Murasaki

Pacing is a really complex thing, I think. When it's too slow - it's too dragged on, and reverse also true.

The answer to that is the context. Back in SS arc things went fine because Kubo was able to told us enough information to understand the context. Now we don't have enough data, so here we are guessing random things.

Kubo really needs to tell us what's going on. Eventually we will know, but he could give us some hint, as he did in SS arc when little by little we knew some info about the hogyuko thingie.

[Alchemist007]

I won't judge what Orihime or Chad are really up to until they do whatever it is they came to do. They simple entered and their powers are active.

I am confused as to who the real bad guy could be. Ichigo hasn't had a killing intent before so I think Ginjou might be doing something...maybe he poisoned his badge, who knows.

Originally Posted by Langus

have it be revealed that Tsukishima is actually a good guy and then he destroys his boring ass self in suicidal grief.

I found this a lot funnier than it should have been

[Lord of Pandemonium]

Originally Posted by Alchemist007

Ichigo hasn't had a killing intent before so I think Ginjou might be doing something...maybe he poisoned his badge, who knows.

Er...he was trying to kill Aizen, but he just didn't die because he's immortal now... That move split Aizen in half and if not for the hougyoku doing what all the King's horses and all King's men couldn't do--putting him back together again...Aizen would have died. So he can fight with the intent to kill, it's just not often

I don't understand why there are special rules for Ichigo. Everyone else and they're mommas can have killing intent, kill their opponents. The moment Ichigo tries, he has to be losing it... or on a downward spiral, or someone did something to his mind. How come he he just can't mature and realize--"I gotta take mofo out sometimes" ?
Every other Shinigami and some Vaizards, have killed characters

Rukia
Byakuya
Shunsui
Ikkaku
Renji
Hitsugaya
Yumichika
Zaraki (Even if he was forced to do so)
Kira (DECAPITATION =WIN)
Aizen
Gin
Hachigen
Even the pacifist Hisagi...

But Ichigo can't ever do so or people swear it's character assassination (not you but fans say this a lot)
Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing kill more than a few characters--but then again I am just a little bloodthirsty ..


IF he doesn't it's all good, but I sure hell won't complain if he does. Right now I am just satisfied with him hacking off limbs, but it's not like he's never done that before either. So I want Kubo to step it up a notch


Kubo does have an arm fetish but most of the characters that lose arms fight with a sword, or in Soifon's case--they're taijutsu users . Because unless you're the "One-Armed Swordsman" you can't fight with just one arm

I mean suppose he just wants to kill Tsukishima on his own?

*Steps away from the PC and falls on my knees with hands lifted in the sky*
(I need to talk with Kubo...)

OH GOD YES!!!! KUBO PLEASE PLEASE LET HIM BODY A MOFOF!!! KUBO PLEAAAAAAAASEE!!! OH GOD PLEASE I AM YOUR #1 Fan...I think I DESERVE to be rewarded with a bit of carnage I BEG YOU!!!! PLEAAAAAAAASEE!!! PLEAAAAAAAASEE!!! PLEAAAAAAAASEE!!!

*back to self...*


So um yeah.......you still think Ginjou is evil? I don't get an evil vibe from him..because it's too much suspicion being placed on him by Kubo. It's too deliberate for him to be evil...or so I think

Originally Posted by Haak

Well the story is heading in the right direction. But now it feels like it's going too fast.

.........now it's too fast?

*HEADESK*
...how come there is no middle ground with you? It's either too slow or two fast

Originally Posted by Fran~

s.

The answer to that is the context. Back in SS arc things went fine because Kubo was able to told us enough information to understand the context.

Kubo really needs to tell us what's going on. Eventually we will know, but he could give us some hint, as he did in SS arc when little by little we knew some info about the hogyuko thingie.

um we didn't learn about the hougyoku until Chapter 175 [End of Hypnosis]" Truth Under My Strings."

Otherwise we had nothing except someone wanted Rukia dead, and Urahara was trying to prevent that from happening but we knew not why---


Kubo is doing the same thing he's always done.....

Originally Posted by Fran~

Now we don't have enough data, so here we are guessing random things.

That's the fun part isn't it? The last time he told us everything, there was nothing to discuss anymore. Especially since the Masked Character Book killed the " Which Espada was VL" debate?

[Fran~]

Originally Posted by Lord of Pandemonium

That's the fun part isn't it?

Nop, it isn't fun at all... because it isn't fun just to make one speculation after another.

[Lord of Pandemonium]

Originally Posted by Fran~

Nop, it isn't fun at all... because it isn't fun just to make one speculation after another.

Then what's the point? Theorizing, and speculative discussion is MORE than half the fun.

Otherwise we're just listing facts like a wiki ...and I like to read wiki (For some reason I love to read Naruto wiki but I can't bring myself to actually read the manga--go figure) --but I sure as hell don't want to discuss it

Think about it without the speculation there is no room for debate and all our posts would look like this...

Originally Posted by Random Bleach Fan

Bleach

• [Insert Character Name Here/]

1. Character Debut
   • Anime- Episode # Random Number
   • Manga - Chapter # Random Number
2. Age
3. Sex
4. Species/Origin
5. Sexual Orientation --- (Wouldn't you like to know?)
6. Background/History
7. Character Relationships
   • Family
   • Friends
   • Possible Love Interests
8. Abilities
   
9. Major Fights
   • Wins
   • Losses
10. Body Parts Lost
11. Body Parts Not Lost
12. Body Parts That Were Lost & Now Regained
13. Body Parts That Were Lost And It Wasn't An Arm
    
    
    

Where is the fun in that? It's much better to discuss when you don't know anything....

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Lord of Pandemonium

*HEADESK*
...how come there is no middle ground with you? It's either too slow or two fast

Probably because there is no middle ground? You know it's perfectly possible for the pacing of a story to go from too slow to too fast. There's nothing remotely contradictory about what I just said.

In any case if I said anything about the pacing being too slow previously, I was probably mistaken. But it was more likely I was saying things were going too slow because of the lack of content, not pacing. If one were to marathon those training chapters, the pacing would've likely been fine.

Originally Posted by Lord of Pandemonium

Then what's the point? Theorizing, and speculative discussion is MORE than half the fun.

Otherwise we're just listing facts like a wiki ...and I like to read wiki (For some reason I love to read Naruto wiki but I can't bring myself to actually read the manga--go figure) --but I sure as hell don't want to discuss it

Think about it without the speculation there is no room for debate and all our posts would look like this...



Where is the fun in that? It's much better to discuss when you don't know anything....

It's like I said previously, there's nothing to actually discuss. We can sit here and make random baseless theories all day. But it's pointless because Kubo has given little to go on. That's not a discussion. It's just Wild Mass Guessing and Fanwanking. Believe it or not, discussing actual theories starts with discussing the facts we know.

[Tarantula Lady]

I really liked the chapter since I couldn't tell whether Kubo was going to turn Ichigo into a killer. There's a big difference between a 15-year-old and a 17-year-old, and I think that is what we are seeing. Like LoP said, there's almost a seinen feel to Bleach.

Ichigo isn't a kid anymore. He went through a war. He literally died once and what got back up from the floor wasn't human. (Yes, I know, he changed back, but still...) He used to be the most powerful shinigami out there and then he suffered the humiliation of losing all his powers. He isn't the same person at the beginning of Bleach and I'm not sure who he's turned into.

[Chiisai Kuma]

a cold hearted son of a bitch, thats what.

[Fran~]

Originally Posted by Tarantula Lady

Ichigo isn't a kid anymore. He went through a war. He literally died once and what got back up from the floor wasn't human. (Yes, I know, he changed back, but still...) He used to be the most powerful shinigami out there and then he suffered the humiliation of losing all his powers. He isn't the same person at the beginning of Bleach and I'm not sure who he's turned into.

Ichigo is just a crying baby... Until HM Arc i had respect for him, but after the fights with Grimmjow and Ulquiorra, Ichigo was a crying baby. And what can i say after his fight with Aizen... he went emo!!!.

Kubo is failing with Ichigo's character development. He is a very plain and simple character with no further improvement or motivation about his own goals.

BTW, i lost the count about how many times Ichigo died, but i'm sure that is more than just one.

[rei_ayanami17]

^ yeah, i agree....but if your Kubo, what goal will you give to Ichigo?

I've been complaining too that how come Ichigo is too soft, yeah, he went through different fights yet ....he still went emo after defeating Aizen.......

but then, when I read Lord of Pendemonium post where he stated those character that has killing intent, i realize that they all shinigami's and what caught my attention is Rukia among his list......why? I remember a particular event in her with Renji saying "i know who take your shinigami power, it is human otherwise you'll never had that human expression in your face"......

do you remember too when Nelliel is shouting for Ichigo to win against Grimmjow? she said that Ichigo is a human yet his fighting and using a hollow power, he' must be suffering....

there still the word HUMAN.........Ichigo is human.........he has the human expression and he has the literary thing called "heart"........

shinigami doesn't have the heart that's why they all have killing intent.........how come i say that?..........remember Kaein question to Rukia....where is your heart lie? for shinigami's heart can be found in "BOND".......

and so maybe that is the reason why Kubo fail to develop his character........if this arc goes on my idea that Ichigo will really loose his ties with human by killing another human...........then i think will never have to complain about Ichigo engaging in a fight and going all out when his shinigami power comeback to him.....

[Kafriel]

Body Parts That Were Lost And It Wasn't An Arm

I LOL'd

Then what's the point? Theorizing, and speculative discussion is MORE than half the fun.

My opinion rests somewhere between yours and Haak's. Back in HM arc me and some friends would speculate lots about characters, locations, abilities and relationships between characters, and while we had our share of fun, it can't go past a certain point, at which you need more canon information to work with. Also, much to my disappointment, the arc didn't go as well as I had expected - not saying that it's Kubo's fault for not being able to sate my wildest BLEACH fantasies, rather that we overhyped the incoming chapters and were met with "the Antagonizer"...

Ichigo isn't a kid anymore. He went through a war. He literally died once and what got back up from the floor wasn't human. (Yes, I know, he changed back, but still...) He used to be the most powerful shinigami out there and then he suffered the humiliation of losing all his powers. He isn't the same person at the beginning of Bleach and I'm not sure who he's turned into.

Ichigo went through a lot, but I really think that losing his powers was supposed to make him go back to a normal life. This arc denies him all the happiness he could have had, but to what end? Would Ichigo ever abandon his world to be with Rukia and the Gotei 13?