2010-05-27, 18:51 | Link #1941 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
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So the meaning of the original eva is people don't overcome their failings and are doomed?
Besides, ironcily in eva 2.0 the characters still fail: Spoiler for Eva 2.0:
Sometimes manning up is not enough. Hence I think the meaning of the title "You Can (Not) Advance" One would think that you can advance in life by overcoming your failings and pushing through life's challenges. Yet fate has a way of constantly (or trying to at least) knocking you back down. Last edited by bigdeath; 2010-05-27 at 22:09. |
2010-05-27, 19:20 | Link #1943 | |
Moderate Haruhiist
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The question is, will you cling to those old expectations brought upon by the original anime, or look at things with an open mind? I prefer the latter, but maybe it's due to the fact that, as I grew up and matured emotionally, I'm not 'hard-core' anymore.
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2010-05-27, 19:37 | Link #1944 |
Moderate Haruhiist
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Mind, I'm taking all this in good fun, but it is surprising how divergent my views became on Evangelion-series derivatives are compared to my so-called contemporaries. Did everyone else become increasingly bitter and insular in the past fifteen years?
Heck, I experienced actual clinical depression (the type you're supposed to take medication for), but I'm liking the new movies. Very much.
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2010-05-27, 19:42 | Link #1945 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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2010-05-27, 20:00 | Link #1946 |
On a mission
Author
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I haven't seen 2.0, so don't feel the need to riot... yet I'm one of the more casual fans of the series. But thoughts on alleged changes:
Now, I'm one of those people that don't hate series Shinji. On the grand scale of whiny characters, he's not even up there really; I think it's overblown really. A lot of people remember Eva as an emo fest/acid trip, but a good chunk of it was one of the best "monster of the week" shows too. So not everyone was an emotional wreck all the time. The entire point of the show is that you can't put a random kid and expect him to win just because he is teh main character. That kind of shit tends to screw with one's mind badly. And if you think about it, he's just the victim of some rather selfish individuals who have their own shady plans to force humanity along with their agenda. You could call Shinji selfish or whatever and I could partially agree, but he is no better or no worse than your average main that fights for some generic reason of good. Unlikable Character does not equal Bad character. And actually I thought he was getting along pretty well, til the plot decided to take a turn for the worst (post-zeruel). You could argue a lot of the emotion was contrived at the end but that's an issue of the plot. Oh and btw, I have no problem with Shinji during 1.0, since this particular Misato is more supportive at him. Stuff like that makes sense.
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Last edited by Archon_Wing; 2010-05-27 at 20:25. |
2010-05-28, 00:05 | Link #1947 | |
et tu, brute?
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Perth WA
Age: 37
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I for one wanted to see shinji manning up ever since i read re-take doujinshi, and thank god i finally able to see him somewhat do so in the second movie. @reckoner: i somehow can relate to your opinion, but give this movie a shot first, the way they make shinji more reliable is not so artificially done, in a sense you will feel glad shinji actually make a better action in this movie, not just sudden "look at me i am gar" or something like that. Now... about that red eye... , seeing shinji, rei (cmiiw, in the end of eva she has red pupil right?) and kaworu having red eye meaning they are somewhat half angels?
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2010-05-28, 00:27 | Link #1948 |
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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I finally saw it tonight. I am not happy, just simply not happy. Rei's character was destroyed. Asuka's character was deformed, Mari really was pointless, and Shinji was fine until the concluding moments of the Zeruel fight, but then acted very uncharacteristically. Anno dumped all his suddenness apparently. Never before have the characters shared their thoughts and feelings with the other characters and the audience as much as in this movie.
Unnecessary amounts of fan service detected in this movie. If I was rating the movie as an unbiased observer, I'd give it a 8.5. Unfortunately, the rating plummets into the 6.5-7.0 range because Evangelion has a lot to live up to. I will write a more detailed review later.
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2010-05-28, 01:27 | Link #1950 |
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Join Date: Jun 2006
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After watching 2.22, I'm high on Eva again. I'm a casual fan of the series, but seeing the characters in a new way is refreshing. You see a character give at least some motivation to Shinji and it adds up towards the end. So far I like this side of Evangelion. 5/5
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2010-05-28, 03:01 | Link #1951 | |
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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My feelings towards Rebuild have ranged everywhere from indifference to excitement to nerd-rage, sometimes in combination. I am left very confused by Anno's intentions with this film and where he was planning to go in the first place.
If he wanted to remake Evangelion, as a treat to old fans and a gateway for new fans, he is doing a piss poor job. If he is just trying to completely reimagine the series, I don't understand why he needs to go back to milk the Evangelion franchise all over again, unless his sole intention is to line his pockets with cash. Anyhow,tTo carefully construct my review of this movie, I am going to split it into three different sections: characters, plot, and misc. CHARACTERS Oh dear, I don't even know where to start... I guess all I can do is talk about each character individually. Asuka Shikinami (Langley Soryu) OK. First of all. I don't understand the name change. Asuka Langley Soryu to Asuka Shikinami? Why? I guess I can let this slide...??? She's supposed to be German, but I didn't even get that impression from her in this movie. Again, this is something I can let slide. I am only mentioning it because these facts seem to be a prelude to what would be one of the character destructions of Evangelion 2.0. What's changed about Asuka you may ask? All you need to do is look at how she interacts with various characters in this movie.
I could seemingly rant on endlessly about Asuka being changed. If they didn't want her to be the same character, don't call her Asuka and don't draw a character that looks like Asuka. Make a new character. Better yet, if they aren't going to truly remake Evangelion for the fans of old, don't call it Evangelion and make it something else. Rei Ayanami Another character destruction, almost as bad as Asuka's. Firstly, emotional Rei. What? Wait. Rei did happen to start displaying some sorts of emotions towards the end of the original series. But this is going tooooooooooooooo far. A dinner party? Is this supposed to be some sort of joke? And she also seems so talkative. She wants to cook for Shinji? What? I feel confused. And why is she looking so surprised so often? And what is up with all the smiling? Rei certainly wasn't the first character of such nature to appear in the anime world, but the silent mysterious girl without emotions was popularized by Evangelion I feel. Moreover, part of what makes her so much better though than all those half ass clones of her (Yuki Nagato from Haruhi being the only one that can seemingly stand up on her own) is how creepy she could be at times throughout the series. I felt she was way too human in this movie, and it really took away from the greatness of her character. I didn't feel like I was watching Rei, just like I didn't feel like I was watching Asuka. Also, for some reason they are trying to add a lot more Shinji x Rei dynamic in this movie that didn't seem to truly exist in the original Evangelion. Now of course I happen to be a Shinji x Asuka shipper at heart, but I won't let that bias get me here... However, I felt it was exaggerated to a point of ridiculousness. Anyhow, the reasons why I think her changes were negative I think are clear. Shinji Ikari SHINJI-LAGANNNNNNNNNNN. OK, until the final scene with Zeruel I didn't think these complaints were merited about Shinji suddenly turning into Simon from TTGL. The limit of Shinji's desperateness in this fight should have been the powerful scene from the original series where he is desperately begging his Evangelion to move. But then they into this whole scene where Shinji is like inside Zeruel trying to pull out Rei and grunting for like 3 minutes as if he became some sort of shounen character. That is not the Shinji I remember? OK. It's honestly not the biggest deal in the world. It was what came afterwards that truly killed me. The hug. He hugged Rei, embraced her. In the entire series of Evangelion, Shinji NEVER ONCE embraced another human being like that. He never ONCE had close physical contact with anyone by his own will. He is supposed to be traumatized by physical contact and emotional attachment. Honestly. What the heck? I cannot accept that Shinji would ever do something like this. This not only goes against Shinji's character, but everything of the original TV series. This was the only standout scene that I truly had a beef with in Rebuild regarding Shinji as a character, but it was a pretty major one... Gendo Ikari Only complaint I had was that they made him seem less evil in this than the original, but that really boils down to perception. I actually felt there was some improvements in his character in the movie. They are showing more clearly his obsession with Yui early on. The College Trio: Misato, Kaji, Ritsuko. All three characters seemingly suffered from lack of development due to time constraints. None suffered more than our poor Ritsuko. I felt like her presence was nonexistent in the movie. Kaji's role in the story seems to be in particular strange. I just felt the way he hanged around many of the characters except Misato and Ritsuko, to be strange. It was as if he was close to them even though he seemingly did not interact at all with any of them beforehand. The biggest shame may be Misato though. Needless to say, we delved very little into what her character is all about. However, I don't know what to say about this, because it really goes into a more overall complaint about the movies in general, which I will describe later, that mostly has to do with time constraints. Mari Mary Sue. End of story really. I will add though that every time she was on the screen and talking, she really felt like an outsider to the Evangelion universe and did not seem to fit in. It was as if she was displaced from her own character. Other Characters Again, do to time constraints many of the other characters were nonexistent. All the staff on the bridge control had absolutely no personality whatsoever compared to their TV series counterparts. There is nothing they can do about this. ---------------------------------------------------- Alright because I am tired I will post the rest of my rantings later. But I'll allow you guys to chew on this for the time being.
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2010-05-28, 03:12 | Link #1952 | |||||
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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I've been thinking, in show shinji was hopeless until the very end when he decided not to give up on the world (reality). In the rebuild:
Spoiler for Eva 2.0:
This question has me very excited about Eva, in a way the original story endless depression fail to inspire in me. @Reckoner: All I can say has been best said by tv tropes: Quote:
In other words, the characters in rebuild can no longer be judged by how they acted in the original show since the way they think has been altered. Rebuild seems to truely be a case study of what would happen if the original shows characters where not so broken and hopeless. Quote:
As for Asuka being a weak girl? How? She smashes an angel in secs (one hell of an entrance and quite heroic - hint at a theme of the rebuild) and can recognize her own emotions unlike her fellow pilots who can't realize they like each other. Quote:
In case you didn't notice, Asuka liked Shinji in the tv show as well and didn't like Rei in part for being a doll but also for being a potential rival. Its just bluntly stated in the rebuild. Quote:
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2010-05-28, 03:43 | Link #1953 | |
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Around
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Since she regards piloting Eva as a highly competitive, working environment type of an affair, she saw this (otherwise strategically unsound) decision as a blatant act of favoritism towards Rei and Unit-00 on commands part (which is true, but not for the reasons Asuka would think). The romantic stuff only surfaces after this. And honestly, if you don't like the movie that's fine, but dissing it for "making no sense" because it doesn't follow the original to the letter shows that you didn't want to view Rebuild as an alternate spin on the story from the get go. And honestly, from the earliest announcements, Rebuild promised a tale that unfolds differently with an all new conclusion. If the characters are the focal points of the story, then leaving them unchanged wouldn't allow for that, no? We can't say for sure, but some sort of family breakup or something like that was definitely hinted at with Asuka's character: during the phone talk with Misato she states that she has been alone for most of her life and that pretending to be happy or being subjected to others happiness are emotionally draining for her. Last edited by Greg88; 2010-05-28 at 03:55. |
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2010-05-28, 04:04 | Link #1954 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
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well, yeah. Poor choice of words. I meant at least it seems she got some love from her mother.
Lol, you caught that while I was rereading my post to make sure everything made sense. Do my post make sense to people or am I crazy? Just wondering if anyone else had similar thoughts after watching 2.0. |
2010-05-28, 05:11 | Link #1955 |
h e a d s h o t
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Bulgaria
Age: 39
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I'm with Reckoner about the original characters.
I would add Rei throwing "Arigatou" at everyone by the end of the move. Good Rei..now Gendo is the only one you haven't thanked. Mari saying "Nya~♥" while piloting Eva - big nono. Asuka is completely different - nothing from the old Asuka here...her mother,unrequited love with Kaji, obsession to be an adult fast - maybe exactly that's why her name is different. I think she got the biggest hit to her original personality. Shinji was the same up until that ridiculous "Giev back Rei" red eye scene and the hug consoling Rei...when it's actually Shinji that always needed to be hugged and consoled and told he is loved and needed by someone. Anyway Anno why did you have to take those crazy repulsive color palettes into Eva >_< Was wondering what anime i was watching at the end of the movie. o.0
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2010-05-28, 05:22 | Link #1956 |
Moderate Haruhiist
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Bravo, you've just demonstrated nerd-rage on the scale of some fandoms. That's quite a feat. Not a dock against you, understand, but I can't help but imagine a boiling kettle.
Relax, breath in a bit, and take off the lenses of nostalgia (and fanboyism). I need to ask, what is it so hard to understand about the term 'reimagining'? I'm sure you're familiar, being American, with both iterations of Battlestar Galactica? The case is similar, where an old or familiar franchise or setting is revisited with a new perspective, which is what the Rebuild movies are: the EVA mythos with a relatively more upbeat outlook. Or maybe just a dash of the Domino Effect thrown in... First off Asuka. The surname change is a stylistic choice -- while the naval ship theme was already in place in the TV series, this made it much more plain to see by a layman, who might not have seen the series (not everyone watches anime, remember), but MIGHT have been passingly familiar with WW2-era destroyers. A class of ships that, incidentally, Ayanami was part of. As for the 'simplified' characterization, well ask yourself, as someone familiar with the TV series, is there any possible way to squeeze what amounted to 7 episodes worth of character building in the second movie, without sacrificing everything else? We know she was a queen bitch in the series, because of all the scenes spread out through the second half of the anime that showed us that she was, indeed, a little girl with MAJOR issues. That's just not possible in a movie format though, so we have what you saw, queen bitch lite. Which, I think, made her movie incarnation more likeable for the casual viewer (not us) than the angry ball of angst we knew. The same could be said of Rei. Most of Rei's mystery in the original series was built up slowly over the course of twenty-two or so episodes. Here, the studio is working with little over than two hours worth of time. Characterization HAD to be brought up to speed, but I think there's more than a little Domino Effect from the previous movie at work here as well (and likely going to snowball into the next movie, judging by the preview). (Yes, TV Sequel conspiracy theories aside, I do think it's helpful to think of the Rebuild movies as its own kind of alternate timeline, where destiny nudged a bit in one direction instead of another.) And Shinji? In the context of the TV series the confidence this Shinji displayed would make no sense. In the context of the TV series. However, in the cotext of the Rebuild movies, it makes a lot of sense (a lot of little nudges add up eventually), including his anger at the end. How about Mari? Just how in Haruhi's name is she a Mary Sue? Are you even familiar with how a Mary Sue is defined? It's not just a character inserted into an established timeline, no sir, there also has to be a dash of idealized wish-fulfillment involved that normally results in a 'perfect' and 'flawless' character... Which Mari isn't. Shinji did not fall in love with her at first sight, nor did she excel at piloting; have you conveniently ignored the fact that she's never had a 'clean' success in any of her outings? EVA-05 was lost, and for all intents and purposes Unit-02 was totaled. What Mari is, I think you want to say, is undefined as a character. Which is not surprising, as she's just been introduced in the movie. There's still two more movies for her motivations (and instabilities) to be revealed. Compare Mari to, say, Kirishima Mana, who actually HAD traits that fit with the typical Mary Sue (including having Shinji nearly fall in love with her).
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Last edited by Myssa Rei; 2010-05-28 at 05:36. |
2010-05-28, 05:47 | Link #1958 |
Moderate Haruhiist
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bigdeath: Well, I do watch everything, or at least a good chunk of what's shown every season. Part of it is due to me being so open-minded about the anime I watch -- along with EVA for example, I count KAIBA and Koihime Musou as favorites alongside Legend of Galactic Heroes. I'm not picky about what I watch though, and I'm not really bothered about the flaws of a series when I'm enjoying myself watching it (I've never given ANY series in recent memory a grade more than or less than 7).
And I enjoyed Rebuild 2.22 immensely, so it deserves a 7 too.
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2010-05-28, 05:50 | Link #1959 | |
Koh nara dekiru!!!
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: August 17th - 31st
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Asuka is pretty much the only real tragedy here... all the other changes I can live with. |
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