Macross Frontier - Episode 08 Discussion / Poll

[Anh_Minh]

"She has to learn to make her own paper airplanes"? Sounds kinda cheesy.

[Swampstorm]

I'd go with Sheryl's "Destiny is something that you take hold of!" instead, if you're looking for a pithy explanation of what Ranka needs to do.

[ani_d]

Originally Posted by Swampstorm

It's all in her reaction to Sheryl's question in the washroom. She wouldn't have started blushing and stammering had Sheryl not have hit home. Surprisingly, Nanase had a much bigger reaction than even Ranka did when Mikhail asked her the same question while the RFC was eavesdropping. There's also the fact that Nanase is the first one over to listen in.

I also don't think Nanase stepped up to Sheryl because of her interest in Alto. Girls blush even for people they don't care about, especially the shy ones. Just because they blush doesn't mean they're interested. She was just caught off guard by Sheryl's random comeback. Honestly, that outburst really struck me as Nanase's way of trying to defend her bestfriend from the Sheryl oppression lol She is bias, yes, but girls do tend to get bias when it involves their bestfriends. I do think she knows that Ranka's crushing on Alto. If Luca and Michael know about it, then what more for her?

The "Ranka can do fine without you" and "You just stepped in here like a queen and started bossing Alto around", sounds to me as the writer's playful way of addresing the Sheryl domination and Ranka's neglection. Notice after Nanase's speech, Ranka turned down Sheryl's offer. I liked that Sheryl was impressed about it. If Ranka had to use Sheryl's help in order to reach her goals, then I think it IS Pointless.

I think what Ranka's singing problem is not about whether or not Alto's physically present to hear her. It's merely the thought of Alto believing in her. Lately, the support coming from the man is absolutely almost to none lol When she found the strength to sing at the mall by the mere thought of Alto, I didn't find the scene as something negative. It actually looked 'right'. She shined brighter than Sheryl that time. :P It's good to not be uber clingy, but I think there is nothing harmless in finding your inner strength from someone.

[Swampstorm]

Originally Posted by ani_d

I also don't think Nanase stepped up to Sheryl because of her interest in Alto. Girls blush even for people they don't care about, especially the shy ones. Just because they blush doesn't mean they're interested. She was just caught off guard by Sheryl's random comeback. Honestly, that outburst really struck me as Nanase's way of trying to defend her bestfriend from the Sheryl oppression lol She is bias, yes, but girls do tend to get bias when it involves their bestfriends. I do think she knows that Ranka's crushing on Alto. If Luca and Michael know about it, then what more for her?

Well, Luca and Michael are teasing Alto mainly based on seeing Ranka's barrage of cellphone messages to him in episode 4. They do it because it's yet another thing to tease him about, more than anything else.

Notice that Michael poses a similar question to Ranka just a bit earlier. While Ranka is surprised, her reaction is much more neutral in comparison. She definitely is interested in finding out what's going on between Sheryl and Alto, but she also makes it clear through her tone that Michael hasn't quite understood her intentions.

There's nothing wrong in Nanase being taken aback; but she gives her feelings away through her facial expression and tone of voice as she tries to deny it.

Originally Posted by ani_d

The "Ranka can do fine without you" and "You just stepped in here like a queen and started bossing Alto around", sounds to me as the writer's playful way of addresing the Sheryl domination and Ranka's neglection. Notice after Nanase's speech, Ranka turned down Sheryl's offer. I liked that Sheryl was impressed about it. If Ranka had to use Sheryl's help in order to reach her goals, then I think it IS Pointless.

Well, I'd like to think that Ranka was going to turn the offer down regardless of what Nanase said. If she really needed Nanase to tell her that much, then she wouldn't have the inner strength that I believe that she has deep inside. But I could be wrong.

Regardless, I think that scene is more designed to reflect how easily misunderstood Sheryl is, despite her best intentions. The later scene of Ranka lost in a sea of Sheryl pictures is much more effective at conveying the idea that you mentioned.

Originally Posted by ani_d

I think what Ranka's singing problem is not about whether or not Alto's physically present to hear her. It's merely the thought of Alto believing in her. Lately, the support coming from the man is absolutely almost to none lol When she found the strength to sing at the mall by the mere thought of Alto, I didn't find the scene as something negative. It actually looked 'right'. She shined brighter than Sheryl that time. :P It's good to not be uber clingy, but I think there is nothing harmless in finding your inner strength from someone.

Well, there's nothing wrong with drawing inspiration from the mental image of Alto, so long as she can learn to do it at will. A lot of athletes and performers have mental images that they use to get themselves pumped up. More than Alto himself, Ranka needs the memory of the words that Alto gave her earlier. No matter where Ranka goes, the memory of those words remain, but the strength to wield them rests with Ranka, not with anyone else.

There's a clear flow of inspiration in that scene, though. Alto doesn't set the plane to flight until Sheryl first gives him the answer to his question about why he flies: it's because he's meant to. Just as Sheryl inspires Alto, that in turn is passed on to Ranka, who finally finds the courage to sing. So it's not enough to point out Alto's involvement alone; there's a clear interaction between all three characters that was necessary for it to work.

(Perhaps it's because I'm a sucker for lines like that, but the dialogue between Alto, Sheryl, and Klan Klein in that scene still gives me goosebumps whenever I watch it. The idea is beautifully expressed.)

Ranka did look very good while singing the song. But the moment that shone the brightest of all was the shy, downcast look of a girl discovering love in the midst of all the loneliness of fame, and the brilliant, timeless sunset in the scene that followed.

[cheesie]

swampstorm, you awesome Sheryl-biased voice of reason, have my babies.

[herbert]

Originally Posted by Swampstorm

Nanase didn't know about that.

As an aside, Ranka's situation is still extremely positive. Even if the variety show itself was shuffled, the producer still thought highly of her. That means that she's got a door open for similar jobs in the future: no small step. Program shuffling happens whenever there's ongoing coverage of a major event. It doesn't matter whether it's breaking news on Sheryl's stay on Frontier or breaking news on the battle for Galaxy; with a little patience, Ranka will get her own shot at screentime. Or at least, Leon's meddling will have to occur enough times for someone to become suspicious.

It's not her first TV appearance either, due to her debut in Miss Macross (which does give her a lot of public exposure). I think that disappointment has less of to do with the loss of a "instantanious leap to stardom" kind of break so much as the fact that it's closer to what she envisioned herself doing than the carrot gig.

I have been thinking most people are too optimal on Ranka's career, believing in any bit hinting on Ranka's future success only for the fact that she is the heroine of the show. What the high opinion of the producer on Ranka should be taken with a grain of salt, as it sounds too much of comforting words of the weirdo manager to me. As for Leon's meddling, someone like Ranka who is just born yesterday and from a small company is supposed to get a lots troubles, which can be simply concluded as bad luck. And even if Ranka and her manager and her fanclub find out, what they can do again it? Come to Sheryl and beg for help? Then the whole 'I wanna achieve it all by myself' go down the drain.

Moreover, I never think Ranka can replace Sheryl. If at some time point Ranka surpasses Sheryl, that's because Sheryl goes down much more than Ranka goes up. There are just too many people fall in between the current distance of the two. This series is just too short for Miria promising an import of one million of copies of Ranka's CDs in her next City 7 Major election speech.

[Haesslich]

There is one thing to note: hard-working by itself isn't enough, or at least doesn't appear to be enough, in show-business. Hard working and well connected, on the other hand, seems to work quite well - or well-connected and well-marketed. Sheryl, while she doesn't have to help Ranka's career along... can provide one thing that Ranka's current manager can't - connections and introductions. That by itself can give Ranka's career a boost... once she gets some self-confidence.

Of course, for all those people who say Brera Stern and Ranka look good together... well, I bet a decade or two back they'd have said that Kaifun and Minmay made a great couple, since they looked great together. And we all know how THAT went down, don't we? I suspect he's working for Leon, and Leon seems more than willing to kill Ranka's career so that, should she need to die, the only people who'll miss her will be her friends and family instead of everyone on Frontier, since they'd be investigating why their idol died mysteriously...

[Swampstorm]

Originally Posted by Haesslich

There is one thing to note: hard-working by itself isn't enough, or at least doesn't appear to be enough, in show-business. Hard working and well connected, on the other hand, seems to work quite well - or well-connected and well-marketed. Sheryl, while she doesn't have to help Ranka's career along... can provide one thing that Ranka's current manager can't - connections and introductions. That by itself can give Ranka's career a boost... once she gets some self-confidence.

I think that there's no shame in accepting the offer from Sheryl, from a practical standpoint. That being said, from a story standpoint, it would probably better to show Ranka as being self-made in much the same sense as Sheryl is, as proof that they are truly equals.

Originally Posted by herbert

I have been thinking most people are too optimal on Ranka's career, believing in any bit hinting on Ranka's future success only for the fact that she is the heroine of the show. What the high opinion of the producer on Ranka should be taken with a grain of salt, as it sounds too much of comforting words of the weirdo manager to me. As for Leon's meddling, someone like Ranka who is just born yesterday and from a small company is supposed to get a lots troubles, which can be simply concluded as bad luck. And even if Ranka and her manager and her fanclub find out, what they can do again it? Come to Sheryl and beg for help? Then the whole 'I wanna achieve it all by myself' go down the drain.

Setting aside the audience's tendancy to analyse the characters in terms of their archetypes, I think that Ranka's ability is at least partially confirmed by Sheryl's belief in her. Sheryl tends to be rather blunt at times, and I don't think that she would have ever talked to Ranka about "following in her footsteps" if there wasn't at least the possibility that Ranka could achieve that someday. Sheryl takes her vocation much too seriously to simply hand out empty words of praise.

As a newcomer, Ranka should go in expecting a lot of obstacles. But part of her ability to succeed depends on her ability to see the bright side of even her worst failures. It's going to be a very long and difficult road ahead if she lets herself get dragged down every time something doesn't work out. Even if her manager is being overly optimistic, this sort of belief will give Ranka the willpower to tough it out through even the hardest of times.

While Ranka and her fanclub may not be able to do anything or say anything on their own, there's always the chance that Sheryl or her manager will figure it out on their own (assuming that Grace is on the straight and narrow). While an intervention on Sheryl's part might be construed as "assistance", I'm confident that Sheryl is not the sort of person who is willing to let herself get used, nor is she willing to take any concessions from Ranka in order to remain at the top. Sheryl Nome is only willing to be the best because she earned it through hard work, not simply because some scheming villain happened to skew the odds in her favour.

Originally Posted by herbert

Moreover, I never think Ranka can replace Sheryl. If at some time point Ranka surpasses Sheryl, that's because Sheryl goes down much more than Ranka goes up. There are just too many people fall in between the current distance of the two. This series is just too short for Miria promising an import of one million of copies of Ranka's CDs in her next City 7 Major election speech.

Ranka doesn't need to try to become the next Sheryl Nome. She just needs to push the boundaries of Ranka Lee as far as they can go.

Nobody can replace Sheryl. But having lived most of her life alone in the spotlight, she's only now starting to discover what it's really like to love and be loved. That's a journey that only really be taken while off the stage, but it's every bit as challenging (if not more).

While a single season might be too short of a span for either girl to really complete their respective journeys, I hope that we'll at least get a chance to see each of them well down their respective roads.

[Eidolon Sniper]

Originally Posted by Swampstorm

Nanase didn't know about that.

As an aside, Ranka's situation is still extremely positive. Even if the variety show itself was shuffled, the producer still thought highly of her. That means that she's got a door open for similar jobs in the future: no small step. Program shuffling happens whenever there's ongoing coverage of a major event. It doesn't matter whether it's breaking news on Sheryl's stay on Frontier or breaking news on the battle for Galaxy; with a little patience, Ranka will get her own shot at screentime. Or at least, Leon's meddling will have to occur enough times for someone to become suspicious.

Oh so Nanase didn't know about the debut as well? I thought that her carrot escapade was the only thing Nanase didn't know., lol. Aside from this I guess, I was also pertaining to the carrot career in response to what henry was talking about in his post.

(Oh, and you can drop the spoiler tags if you want.)

Oh, I keep them on in case somebody was going through the thread and still hasn't watched ep 8 as of yet.

[herbert]

@ Swampstorm

I figure that you may misunderstand me in a point. Even if I have 'Sheryl fan' written on my face since day one, it doesn't necessarily mean I'd look down on Ranka. I have never for a second doubted Ranka gets a potential can match Sheryl's. The highlight of my idea is 'the best songstress not necessary be the most popular one; only the one with both ability and opportunity can make to top, and Ranka lacks of the latter." Like the possibility that Sheryl falls we have talked for a long time, isn't there also a possibility that Ranka fails to rise? There are too many hero/heroine-want-so-hero/heroine-get anime out here, it would be fun to have one in which main character(s) fail to reach their dreams.

[SymphonicRain]

Originally Posted by herbert

The highlight of my idea is 'the best songstress not necessary be the most popular one

I'm inclined to agree with that statement. Well, at least in WuXia novels, the best martial artists are never the ones who are openly famous or popular. Usually its only after their deaths that their talents are recognised.

Sounds like modern day artists as well huh.

[FLCL]

swampstorm, you are a god

[ani_d]

Originally Posted by Swampstorm

Well, Luca and Michael are teasing Alto mainly based on seeing Ranka's barrage of cellphone messages to him in episode 4. They do it because it's yet another thing to tease him about, more than anything else.

Notice that Michael poses a similar question to Ranka just a bit earlier. While Ranka is surprised, her reaction is much more neutral in comparison. She definitely is interested in finding out what's going on between Sheryl and Alto, but she also makes it clear through her tone that Michael hasn't quite understood her intentions.

It might be too straightforward to say this but Michael, Luca and Nanase do pick up that Alto and Ranka are close even if the two don't have any clue about it. Like you said, they wouldn't tease Alto if they don't.

While it's true Ranka did say, "It's not like that" her behaviour, facial expressions tell us otherwise. It's fairly evident Ranka is jealous that Alto's getting closer to Sheryl. That's all it is. People express more of themselves through Nonverbal communication instead of verbal.

Which brings me back to Nanase....

Originally Posted by Swampstorm

There's nothing wrong in Nanase being taken aback; but she gives her feelings away through her facial expression and tone of voice as she tries to deny it.

Since Nonverbal > Verbal, it doesn't mean that every pattern of behaviour is absolute. If we're going to compare Ranka's denial of jealousy to her behavioral patterns lately, we're bound to see that the girl really is jealous--in a very passive way I might add. While in Nanase's case, the girl blushes practically at everything. She blushed when Ranka held her hand, she blushed when Sheryl commented on her body, she blushed when she was teased about Alto. -_-; lol There's not even any indication that Nanase is crushing on Alto. I really don't think she indignantly stood up to Sheryl just because Sheryl is taking Alto away from her.

Originally Posted by Swampstorm

Regardless, I think that scene is more designed to reflect how easily misunderstood Sheryl is, despite her best intentions. The later scene of Ranka lost in a sea of Sheryl pictures is much more effective at conveying the idea that you mentioned.

Nobody said they can't reinforce the idea over and over. I also think that's another hint of them conveying 'the' message.

[The Chaos]

First ..I Really Loved The Ep And Sheryl
Second ...I Start Hating Ranka ..( Don't Know Why )
I hope The Next Ep Have Sheryl Time Like This one
I Give This Ep 10/10

[ipernorris]

Originally Posted by The Chaos

First ..I Really Loved The Ep And Sheryl
Second ...I Start Hating Ranka ..( Don't Know Why )
I hope The Next Ep Have Sheryl Time Like This one
I Give This Ep 10/10

Uhm Ranka for now isn't becoming bitchy and I highly doubt she will become. She's hiding some big secret (=her flashing chest IS NOT normal!) and has the military after her: she has a huge disadvantage compared to Sheryl yet she hasn't became bitchy against her or Alto. Anyway I consider her like some kind of little sister because she's way more childish than Sharyl, who is very beautiful and sensual in evreything she wears and in evreythign she does. And she isn't bitchy really, it's only a cover to protect her sweet, fragile and thoughtful personality.

[SuperKnuckles]

I'm not too sure I really like how Alto and Sheryl is putting it all up on 'destiny' too readily and simply. It's like they're totally jinxing themselves considering that a lot of it was a sheer will to succeed at what they're doing, and a lot of the events are simply out of their control (If the Vajra didn't attack, Alto wouldn't be in SMS).

As for Ranka's possible bitchy-turn, I think she could take a bit of the Minmay route, but I don't think it's really in her. Though I wish she can be a little less timid for a change (not the typical sibling angst at Ozma). I wish Sheryl can stop being so perfect and being so perfectly adaptable to anything and everything.

[Wesley84]

I figure Ranka will drop the whole Idol thing, because as much as she likes singing, she wouldn't like becoming someone like Sheryl.

[SymphonicRain]

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

I wish Sheryl can stop being so perfect and being so perfectly adaptable to anything and everything.

-Sheryl breaks down during her concert due to stress

-Sheryl trashes half of the school just for her panty

Just these two points alone I think pretty much negate your point of Sheryl being perfect. There's also several traits and perks of Sheryl's character definitely doesn't make her perfect at all.

Now, Belldandy is the epitome and definition of perfect which unfortunately makes her character now so dreadfully boring.

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by SymphonicRain

-Sheryl breaks down during her concert due to stress

She was acting. She acts out all the time.

-Sheryl trashes half of the school just for her panty

While having an awesome time doing it.

Just these two points alone I think pretty much negate your point of Sheryl being perfect. There's also several traits and perks of Sheryl's character definitely doesn't make her perfect at all.

She may not be "perfect" but she does whatever she wants and walks all over people i.e. Alto.

Where's the Sheryl from episode two that wore a disguise when she went out in public? She gave up on that as soon as five rolled around, if not earlier. Speaking of episode five, where's that Sheryl at? I would never have imagined her wrecking a school because of a pair of panties, as funny and entertaining as that may have been. Not to mention running people doing with a limo and being a general agent of Chaos.

Episode one Sheryl? Denigrates the flight students and makes a hasty retreat when her fans, whom she appeals to later on when her precious Galaxy that she hates is attacked, are in danger from...something.

She's not very consistent is she?

[ipernorris]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

I figure Ranka will drop the whole Idol thing, because as much as she likes singing, she wouldn't like becoming someone like Sheryl.

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