[Manga] Chapter 378 Discussion

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Davitz

i dont think he has his original body still, i think that becuase he had mastered all elements etc, using the rinnegan he split his body up into 6 bodies, of which weve seen 3, so that he could use all of the tehcniques simultaneiously, or something along those lines
but whatever i think that
those 6 bodies are originally one personand thats pain original body

Yeah, could be that he split his original body into the ones we see now. Still, I think that there must be a body that has a much stronger power than the rest.

[TooPurePureBoy]

Ya it would be very like Kishi to follow shonen manga archetypes in that the last body we see will be Pien's "true" form or something like that.

Still though there was that one time with the Sasori that he didn't use his final scroll if i remember correctly so ...who knows.

[0TaKu0]

Lol this chapter was kind of funny to me, I liked how kishimoto tried to stress the fact that they are three bodies with official Rinnegan, I'm wondering if Pain simply used that clone technique he has that requires 30% Chakra but due to the Rinnegan passing down to its clones its much more then the average ones created. Still if it is a whole different technique induced by the Rinnegan, I'm starting to think Pains real body is no where near and, even when the body that resembles Yahiko / Naruto is active I'm thinking that’s also a "Clone Body" Pain / Nagato uses from afar. Obviously Pain's real body should look like a grown up Nagato (that’s assuming nothing happen to it, which would be safe considering how powerful the Rinnegan is. So basically I believe that Pain is controlling the bodies from afar, like Itachi and Kisame did wither its the same technique or not. I was a little surprised to see that Kishimoto actually made this one some what of an "explanation chapter" and, rather then explaining something more significant he explains the purpose / use of the 3 views (seriously, if you needed an explanation why 3 eyes that share the same sight is better then 1 then I don’t even know what to say to you, its so damn obvious why).

None the less I found it pretty interesting that Kishimoto chose Ma Frog to be the "dumb" one asking the "What and, why" with Jiraiya calmly listening, rather then Jiraiya himself. I always assumed without Naruto around to be the What / Why guy for explanation purposes, the next suitable person is Jiraiya, but I was wrong I guess Kishimoto wants to portray that Jiraiya is not as dumb as he looks. I was a little confused as to how the Fat Pain was put out of commission, I'm thinking it was an over dose, too much fire to absorb or, did he catch both the Fat pain and Long hair pain in the swam? (remember the fat pain was touching / standing on the surface floor of the pipe, while the long hair pain was touching the surface floor of the roof of the pipe, which would make it ideal conditions for the Swamp on both surfaces to take them both). Still I am totally surprised that Jiraiya and co. took out both bodies in one chapter, and already. However I will say this, I don’t think its going to be 1 vs. 1 any time soon, or that its ending anytime soon. Pain still has lots of other bodies to bring out, including the one that resembles Yahiko (which will most likely trigger a why / what from Jiraiya and, activate the Yahiko flashback / information chapter). Not to mention, Pains real body meaning, Nagato needs to be revealed as to where / what the bodies are and, of course more information on its abilities of the Rinnegan.

That’s all for me, can't wait till the next chapter I predict some 1 vs. 1 before Pain is forced to summon more bodies, well maybe not forced by Jiraiya but if Jiraiya is correct on that each body can use only a specific type of attack (summon, absorb etc) which I also predicted a few chapter discussions back, then I definitely see Pain summoning more bodies, considering the only Pain left right now can only use summon attacks and, look at the enclosed space they are in it almost feels like the Pain that’s left right now is already screwed with the whole genjutsu being readied, limited space to summon creatures, losing two bodies with absorb / attack and, 2 perspective of vision. However, it would be a cool twist if what all three of Pains bodies saw, was a genjutsu , meaning the fat pain and long hair pain is not out of commission, just under a genjutsu same for the deidara looking Pain. I’m only throwing that out there because we weren’t told if the genjutsu set up was done or not, hence we don’t even know if it took place or not.

[Black-Cat-Sama]

Originally Posted by cuttups

Tsunade said she would come save him. I am kind of planning on that happening or else the J-man is dead.

Tsunade coming to the rescue could actually lead to Pein invading the hidden wind. He could twist it into being an attack on his country and want revenge.

Then jiraiya told her not to come and that cshe cudnt because she's hokage. and she has to be tehre for her people (they wont feel safe with their leaders always sying, the 4th the 3rd and her if anything) then he told her to bet he'll die...so he'll live she she has bad luck.

And why would Pein attack the land of the wind if Tsunade comes? Land of the wind (wind country im assuming) would equal sand vilalge and stuff, konoha is in fre country and anyways, his old home would be in water wud it not?

[Naotaka]

I was a little surprised to see that Kishimoto actually made this one some what of an "explanation chapter" and, rather then explaining something more significant he explains the purpose / use of the 3 views (seriously, if you needed an explanation why 3 eyes that share the same sight is better then 1 then I don’t even know what to say to you, its so damn obvious why).

While I completly understand where your coming from, and I do agree with you. I think the point here was to show, how the Rin'engan, is better then the Byakugan, because the Byakugan has a small blind spot & this techiclly doesn't / shouldn't. As the manga, was quick to compare the two eye techiques and made a comment about how awesome this 3 person vision is, because of the different angles of sight, and that it requires no seals & chakra.

I'm honestly not convinced of the superiority of the Rin'engan over the Byakugan in regards to sights issues. The Byakugan has a near perfect 360 degree vision with a very small blind spot just below the neck. If one can even figure that out. The Byakugan can also see through objects, where as the Rin'engan's vision can be obstructed by many number of things as proved by Jaraiya's huge fireball & smoke effect left over after, and even something as silly as a Naruto's Kage Bushin would most likelly disrupt a great deal of the Rin'engan's vision because there's just to many Narutos in the way. However none the less I belive that was still the point, Kishimoto was trying to get at. That the Rin'engan is superior to the Byakugan even in terms of sight, which is the Byakugan strong point.

[Rahan]

Originally Posted by Naotaka

While I completly understand where your coming from, and I do agree with you. I think the point here was to show, how the Rin'engan, is better then the Byakugan, because the Byakugan has a small blind spot & this techiclly doesn't / shouldn't. As the manga, was quick to compare the two eye techiques and made a comment about how awesome this 3 person vision is, because of the different angles of sight, and that it requires no seals & chakra.

I'm honestly not convinced of the superiority of the Rin'engan over the Byakugan in regards to sights issues. The Byakugan has a near perfect 360 degree vision with a very small blind spot just below the neck. If one can even figure that out. The Byakugan can also see through objects, where as the Rin'engan's vision can be obstructed by many number of things as proved by Jaraiya's huge fireball & smoke effect left over after, and even something as silly as a Naruto's Kage Bushin would most likelly disrupt a great deal of the Rin'engan's vision because there's just to many Narutos in the way. However none the less I belive that was still the point, Kishimoto was trying to get at. That the Rin'engan is superior to the Byakugan even in terms of sight, which is the Byakugan strong point.

That's Kishimoto's limits. It's not the first time he has to make someone clearly state something that he failed to make clear through the acts of the characters.
example : Kakashi stating Naruto and Sakura make an impressive combination (second bell test, while they hadn't any teamwork) or that Naruto has surpassed him.

Now we have yet to see teamwork between Naruto and Sakura (in the 3 fights they took part later, Naruto let her handle one Akatsuki with a granny against Kakashi's orders, almost killed her, and told her to no interfere), no one takes Kakashi seriously, and for one small disadvantage against the Rinnegan, the Byakugan still has plenty of qualities over it, but Kishimoto wants us to believe what he said (and failed to draw).

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Naotaka

While I completly understand where your coming from, and I do agree with you. I think the point here was to show, how the Rin'engan, is better then the Byakugan, because the Byakugan has a small blind spot & this techiclly doesn't / shouldn't. As the manga, was quick to compare the two eye techiques and made a comment about how awesome this 3 person vision is, because of the different angles of sight, and that it requires no seals & chakra.

He was just saying that the Rinnegan has advantages Byakugan doesn't. Just like Sharingan has advantages over Byakugan and vice-versa. Not necessarily that one is better than the other. Rinnegan's advantage comes not from the line of sight but the fact that it connects three bodies. Pein has sight similar to a Byakugan user, but can react to danger in a way no Byakugan user could. To cover an attack aiming for the blind spot, a Byakugan user would have to use Kaiten which uses up chakra, whereas Pein can just cover with one of his bodies.

[Naotaka]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

He was just saying that the Rinnegan has advantages Byakugan doesn't. Just like Sharingan has advantages over Byakugan and vice-versa. Not necessarily that one is better than the other. Rinnegan's advantage comes not from the line of sight but the fact that it connects three bodies. Pein has sight similar to a Byakugan user, but can react to danger in a way no Byakugan user could. To cover an attack aiming for the blind spot, a Byakugan user would have to use Kaiten which uses up chakra, whereas Pein can just cover with one of his bodies.

Umm but as shown when Pain was attacked by Jaraiya's hair, he summoned, a giant panda to block that attack. Hence, it's really impossible to say which uses more chakra. The Kaiten or a giant bear summoning. And the Rin'engan is said to be the strongest of the 3 eye techniques. So maybe I am misunderstaning it, but I'm still under the impression that Kishimoto is trying to prove it's superiority, compared to the other 2 eye techniques.

[Naotaka]

Originally Posted by Rahan

That's Kishimoto's limits. It's not the first time he has to make someone clearly state something that he failed to make clear through the acts of the characters.
example : Kakashi stating Naruto and Sakura make an impressive combination (second bell test, while they hadn't any teamwork) or that Naruto has surpassed him.

Now we have yet to see teamwork between Naruto and Sakura (in the 3 fights they took part later, Naruto let her handle one Akatsuki with a granny against Kakashi's orders, almost killed her, and told her to no interfere), no one takes Kakashi seriously, and for one small disadvantage against the Rinnegan, the Byakugan still has plenty of qualities over it, but Kishimoto wants us to believe what he said (and failed to draw).

Yea my thoughts exactly.

[cuttups]

Originally Posted by Black-Cat-Sama

Then jiraiya told her not to come and that cshe cudnt because she's hokage. and she has to be tehre for her people (they wont feel safe with their leaders always sying, the 4th the 3rd and her if anything) then he told her to bet he'll die...so he'll live she she has bad luck.

And why would Pein attack the land of the wind if Tsunade comes? Land of the wind (wind country im assuming) would equal sand vilalge and stuff, konoha is in fre country and anyways, his old home would be in water wud it not?

I understand what you are saying, but I'm hoping Tsunade is a little feistier than that and does come because she really cares.

If one Kage is attacked by another Kage, it could be considered an act of violence. Especially if the Kage who got attacked is a major villain in the storyline. I probably just messed up the village's name by accident. My bad.

[zepkox]

Originally Posted by tatami

what if j man defeats the 3 bodies and retreat to konoha to report while there are 3 more bodies of pein that he dont know?

so everyone is happy...naruto could face pain, j man is alive ,pain is alive and we can finally go back to uchiha stuff

that sounds logical enough, kishi should go with that idea ^^


and one point I would like to bring up:
So now it is obvious we all assume that the two summoned bodies are 2 of Pein's 6 bodies in total.
Now thinking back to when the very 1st Pein went to sleep in those machines to switch bodies, seriously what was the point in that? if he could just summon any body he wishes?
Im just going along with the idea that yes the two summons are actually two of the six but that just makes the whole machine thing pointless....

[monster]

Originally Posted by zepkox

Im just going along with the idea that yes the two summons are actually two of the six but that just makes the whole machine thing pointless....

Maybe you can only summon the bodies if they're in that structure (I hesitate in calling it a machine for now).

[Adediran242]

Originally Posted by Naotaka

Umm but as shown when Pain was attacked by Jaraiya's hair, he summoned, a giant panda to block that attack. Hence, it's really impossible to say which uses more chakra. The Kaiten or a giant bear summoning.

You've put it into the wrong context, Byakkugan has to use Kaiten to defend against his/her blindspot (as we've seen so far), while someone wih the rin'nengan doesn't neccesarily have to summon a giant panda. Kishi is trying to show it's superiority to the Hyuuga technique by:

1. Saying it uses no chakra
2.Saying it does not needed seals (hence, no time lapse)
3.Saying it has no blind spot.

We also have to put into context that this is only one of the rin'nengan's techniques and that he has a few more with that dojutsu of his. (I'm guessing this is more of a defensive technique than an offensive one.)

[That Other Ninja]

Originally Posted by Adediran242

You've put it into the wrong context, Byakkugan has to use Kaiten to defend against his/her blindspot (as we've seen so far), while someone wih the rin'nengan doesn't neccesarily have to summon a giant panda. Kishi is trying to show it's superiority to the Hyuuga technique by:

1. Saying it uses no chakra
2.Saying it does not needed seals (hence, no time lapse)
3.Saying it has no blind spot.

We also have to put into context that this is only one of the rin'nengan's techniques and that he has a few more with that dojutsu of his. (I'm guessing this is more of a defensive technique than an offensive one.)

Its range is limited to normal vision and cannot see through objects at hundreds of meters, so I very much doubt it is superior. It just serves a similar function as the Byakugan with the convenience (I wouldn't call it an ability) to see more than one singular peripheral vision within more than one body, shared by a singular conscience.

[Narutaro]

Originally Posted by zepkox

that sounds logical enough, kishi should go with that idea ^^


and one point I would like to bring up:
So now it is obvious we all assume that the two summoned bodies are 2 of Pein's 6 bodies in total.
Now thinking back to when the very 1st Pein went to sleep in those machines to switch bodies, seriously what was the point in that? if he could just summon any body he wishes?
Im just going along with the idea that yes the two summons are actually two of the six but that just makes the whole machine thing pointless....

it could be that he can only summon bodies if he use the body that specialize in summoning, if he stay ni 1st pain body then he can't use multiple bodies like he did now, seems logical to me.

[naruto89]

Why did the thin pain have his eye's closed, did i miss something?

[holypanl]

The most comon opinion was that Jiraiya would die. But this last chapter doesn't make that seem too likely. But then:

The Rin'negan is supposed to be total pwnage, so maybe Pein has just been playing around with Jiraiya-sama all this time. Seriously. If that's all the Rin'negan can do, I'm soooo NOT impressed. If so, then no wonder Madara orders Pein around.

Like:

"Shut up and capture Kyuubi, ring-eye."

"No. My Dojutsu is more powerful than yours. I can see you from different angles!!"

"..." Madara uses Tsukuyomi on Pein.

"For the next 5 million hours you will see Orochimaru rape Kabuto from every possible angle the light rays could refract to."

"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO".

Seriously. Rin'negan is disappointing.

[carb]

the rinnegan, in terms of line of sight, is far far more superior than the byakugan.

2 scenarios:

1st - open ground with no obstacles. the difference here is not that huge since byakugan will only be missing a tiny line of sight compared to the rinnegan.

2nd - buildings ( with a lot of corners ). the byakugan's sight is limited to a single hallway. the rinnegan on the other hand can cover multiple hallways.

[tatami]

Originally Posted by carb

the rinnegan, in terms of line of sight, is far far more superior than the byakugan.

2 scenarios:

1st - open ground with no obstacles. the difference here is not that huge since byakugan will only be missing a tiny line of sight compared to the rinnegan.

2nd - buildings ( with a lot of corners ). the byakugan's sight is limited to a single hallway. the rinnegan on the other hand can cover multiple hallways.

byakugan can see great distances but rinnegan didnt show that kind of ability...
byakugan can see near 360 degree vision whereas rinnecan cant.it needs more bodies fot that.
byakugan can do more than " see " whereas rinnegan can only " see " (for now)

in terms of sight byakugan owns but in terms of using sight as a tactic with multiple other circumstances (like using 2 other bodies) rinnegans owns badly...

[Quzor]

Originally Posted by carb

the rinnegan, in terms of line of sight, is far far more superior than the byakugan.

2 scenarios:

1st - open ground with no obstacles. the difference here is not that huge since byakugan will only be missing a tiny line of sight compared to the rinnegan.

2nd - buildings ( with a lot of corners ). the byakugan's sight is limited to a single hallway. the rinnegan on the other hand can cover multiple hallways.

Huh? Neji uses his Byakugan in the forest, where there are plenty of obstacles, and can see quite clearly for quite a distance. Why would him being in a hallway limit his ability to see through objects, if being in a forest does not?