(CR) Hunter X Hunter Anime (2011)

[Albafica]

Well it's "logic" to compare these 2 adaptations.

I don't say the new version sucks, they did a good job overall, but I still prefer the old one. I speak about York Shin City arc. About this episode, yes I prefer the old version.
The new version has a really good fight, but the atmosphere is different, the tension too.

Basically it's the same fight, but it's different in some way.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Am I the only one who finds it depressing that so much of this thread is devoted to fans of either version telling the other how much their version sucks?

Don't generalize please. There are only a few posts on that note. The rest of the discussion is pretty civil and respectful IMO.

[butahill]

Originally Posted by SHINOBI-03

EPISODE 47

Spoiler for Part 1:

Manga: Second half of chapter 81, 82, most of 83, 84
Nippon’s Adaptation: Episode 56, episode 45

Both adaptations used the red moon.




In Madhouse’s adaptation we see the leeches’ eggs and yes, disgusting!



In Nippon’s adaptation we see Kurapika says a prayer.



In Nippon’s adaptation Uvo flicks the crunched beer can at Kurapika




Usually I don’t point out the differences in clothing, but Kurapika’s clothes in Nippon’s adaptation is a little different.





The dead tribe



“I feel nothing.”





I liked the performance in this moment.




KAIOKEN!!!


In the manga, Uvo shouts his attack name “Rock Storm”. He didn’t do that in both adaptations.





In Nippon’s adaptation the chain made an electrical shock sound effect which was really out of place and out of nature of the attack.



Uvo’s first punch tore off Kurapika’s sleeve. In Madhouse’s it came unscathed.





Uvo’s first shock, and I really liked the sound effect used.





Liked the animation of this attack.



The final dropkick was done differently in Nippon’s adaptation.





100%





This pose did not appear in Madhouse’s adaptation..




The fight got extended a bit in Nippon’s.



Big Bang Impact was perfect in Madhouse’s and you can totally see the damage it made. In Nippon’s… PATHETEC!! Are you telling me a punch of full force that we saw destroy a mountain and all what it does here is knock Kurapika down few feet away?!!





Madhouse’s did not mention that Uvo was targeting Kurapika’s spine.




In the manga, we Kurapika had chained up Uvo while still flying in the air. In Madhouse’s adaptation it was after landing on the mountain. In Nippon’s it on the ground. Honestly, I think Madhouse’s change is better than the manga that made him look like he was flying all the time or defying the gravity by staying in the air. But then let’s not forget Anime Law #2 - Law of Differential Gravitation- Whenever someone or something jumps, is thrown, or otherwise is rendered airborne, gravity is reduced by a factor of 4. * Some things have been known to "Float" for a few seconds before plummeting to hit the ground, vehicle, or someone’s cranium.





Uvo used gyo only in the manga.





“Capture Phase Complete”. Note the difference in Uvo’s arms’ position.

Spoiler for Part 2:

A quick scene in Nippon’s of a worried Shalnark.



Madhouse explains the situation with Kurapika’s nen type.



In Nippon’s adaptation, Kurapika takes off one lens instead of both. And to be honest, I like the heterochromic effect.






Emperor Time


Then we see what happened before with Kurapika and Mizuken. Everything was just like the manga with the exception of comparing the condition to mahjong or poker. In Nippon’s adaptation we go back to episode 45 that didn’t follow the manga as closely. In the manga, Kurapika kept ignoring Mizuken till he mentioned the possibility of conjuring an unbreakable chain. In Nippon’s adaptation we can’t tell if she went back to him or kept going and Mizuken followed her. And apparently he knows about her ploy for revenge… it’s just the beginning…!





Nippon’s adaptation shows us how conjuration works… BUT, it contradicts what Kurapika said in chapter 123. This is how his training went:


Panel 1:
-“Once I decided on chains, I began with imagery training.” – “First, I fiddled with real chains… around the clock.” – “I felt them with my eyes closed, drew thousands of pictures…” – “I tasted them, smelled them, rattled them, and stared at them for hours.” – “My teacher told me to do nothing but play with them.”

Panel 2:
-“He took away the real chains once I started to dream about them every night.” – “Eventually, I began to hallucinate them.”

Panel 3:
-“They seemed more real as the days passed, and I could even feel and hear them.” – “And one day, I found them conjured in my hands.”

In Nippon’s adaptation on the other hand, this is what we see. BTW, I experienced sitting under a waterfull, and to tell you this, it’s not as simple as it sounds like. The water hits your head and body very hard and it is too cold! I didn’t get how sitting under a waterfall is training till I tried it in real life. Back to the scene, I’m not gonna lie, the hallucination does look freakin awesome!




How did Kurapika’s aura reach the moon?!



I ask again: Are you still not sure Kurapika is meant to be a girl here? And what kind of blood is that?! And does Kurapika’s earring have a special power of some sort?! Not to mention the contradiction of how he conjured the chains as mentioned above!



Still have doubts?! Kurapika is a girl in Nippon’s adaptation and it has been proved numerous times and I don’t want any mail asking me to stop calling her a “she” to respect your feelings because the truth has been revealed and you have to accept it!!



Mizuken reminds Kurapika that she wants to become a black list hunter which what she told the captain early in the series, but here he says he knew about it from the Hunter Association. Did the association gather information about the hunters and their goals? Oh wait… that was one of Netero’s questions in the interview with the final candidates in the exam.



But then he tells her about the contract in which he should’ve told her a long time ago… but in Nippon’s adaptation he tells her it’s one of the principles of nen – something not mentioned in the manga. And instead of comparing to mahjong or poker, he compares it to running away from fire or a mouse cornered by a cat. And it didn’t show the equation. The end of their conversation was in the current episode (episode 56).

-“Just like poker or mahjong.” – “The more difficult the hand, the more it’s worth.”








Back to the current episode, we get a silent scene between them, until Mizuken starts talking about dropping revenge….



Back to the current events. Here we see the healing thumb as well as the damage the arm received earlier. The bruise in Madhouse’s is HUGE compared to Nippon’s which is natural because that failure of a punch didn’t do much impact to make a great damage!





And then the torture fest begins, along with Nippon’s second problem with the episode: Kurapika gets tormented by her torturing Uvo - one of the people who murdered her tribe and swore to kill them all! But since Furuhashi made her a girl so it’s natural that she got a more delicate heart than Madhouse’s cold hearted manly man who shows no mercy or rethink his action on his target!





Uvo’s lib moment in this moment was super cool for such a minor thing to animate!



I liked the performance and overall presentation of this scene in Madhouse better.





Stake of Retribution





Uvo’s death and burial. In the manga Kurapika didn’t show any emotions and all what he concerned was the time and energy he spent on. Mahouse made the same a masterpiece by combining the Sin City style and the deadly silence. In Nippon’s adaptation… PATHETIC! Kurapika who we saw determined to kill is now falling on her knees crying over her “crime”! And her crime was so devastating that the moon is crying with her!! But again, what’s new?! This is Furuhashi who wanted to end the series by killing Kurapika to “atone for her sins” of killing the ones who killed her tribe. We got it Furuhashi: “Revenge doesn’t pay”. But what you’ve failed to realize that this is NOT your story and you’re NOT the author to decide what the characters are!! You destroyed for us Gon and Killua and now you’ve destroyed Kurapika! Congratulations!!





In Nippon’s adaptation we see a silent scene between Shalnark and Feitan (We see Owl with them). In the manga there was a dialogue here (And we see Feitan reads a book of Trevor Brown). Madhouse skipped this scene and went straight to the meeting.

-Shal: “Is Uvo back yet?”
-Feitan: “No.” – “Don’t worry. He not die so easy.”





Unlike everybody else, I didn’t find any problem with the soundtrack. Everyone says it’s terrible and unfitting, and I repeat my question: “Do you watch other battle anime?” Because for me, the music used wasn’t out of the ordinary and got used to that style in action fight scenes. Nippon’s adaptation on the other hand was a complete failure. The deviation of Kurapika's character is by far the worst failure ever and a big evidence on Furuhashi’s faulty direction style and his view to the series, that and the fight was poorly made. ((Seriously what’s the deal with that lousy punch?!!))

9.5\10. For Madhouse of course.

I agree with you 100%. I thought I was 1999 fanboy when the show started but everything u say makes sense. Nippon made this episode really pathetic if u ask me too. Moon crying... wth? :lol And he is not the author of original so changing the main idea of the manga is not what a director should be doing.

MadHouse just did it again.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Don't generalize please. There are only a few posts on that note. The rest of the discussion is pretty civil and respectful IMO.

If you believe only a few posts aren't civil and respectful, you're either reading a different thread than I am, or your definition is more liberal than mine.

[SHINOBI-03]

Originally Posted by Albafica

Moments where you says it's pathetic for Nippon, it's absolutly false for me. Well you're a HxH2011' fanboy when I'm a 1999 fanboy, so I disagree with you in a lot of your reviews.

While I'm leaning towards the 2011 version that doesn't mean I always accept what they give to us. There were times I said they did scenes a bad job and praised the 1999 on other times. Plus, I'm a fan of the manga and that's my main canon for the series.

Originally Posted by Albafica

You said that you liked the moment where Kurapika said "you will atone though death", but you take 0 shots of this moment in the manga or the previous serie, to compare, which is far epic than this one.

I was talking about the "vocal" performance. I liked how the voice actress said that line.

Originally Posted by Albafica

Yeah it's my opinion, like your post is yours, but says "pathetic" all times in a post is a bit pathetic too....

Please! I said twice, okay? And if pathetic wasn't the right word for a lame-assed punch that was supposed to be super destructive and turning a cold hearted avenger to a cry baby emo, then what is it?

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

I disagree. You didn't like it and that's fair, but it isn't a failure at all. Adaptations are called that way for a reason. It doesn't have to be 100% faithful to the source material.

Sorry, but when a character is the main focus in this part of the story and is presented in a wrong way than what's intended to by the original author and given the wrong basis, then the whole thing is messed up. This episode left a bad taste in my mouth and I'm not changing my word.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by SHINOBI-03

Sorry, but when a character is the main focus in this part of the story and is presented in a wrong way than what's intended to by the original author

The director/writer needs not to be concerned by what the author of the source material intended (unless the producers specifically say so). It's their own interpretation and feelings on the original work what matters. That's how directors and writers go about doing adaptations. Some times it happens that their take is similar to the original, but that's not always the case, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Kutapika's portrayal in the old anime isn't "wrong", it's just different.

[SHINOBI-03]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

The director/writer needs not to be concerned by what the author of the source material intended (unless the producers specifically say so). It's their own interpretation and feelings on the original work what matters. That's how directors and writers go about doing adaptations. Some times it happens that their take is similar to the original, but that's not always the case, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Kutapika's portrayal in the old anime isn't "wrong", it's just different.

I guess you've never experienced watching an adaptation of your favorite book/manga that is totally not the same as what you've read and therefore you don't appreciate the importance of sticking to the source material.

(I'll never forgive Gonzo. Never)

[kitten320]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

The director/writer needs not to be concerned by what the author of the source material intended (unless the producers specifically say so). It's their own interpretation and feelings on the original work what matters. That's how directors and writers go about doing adaptations. Some times it happens that their take is similar to the original, but that's not always the case, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Kutapika's portrayal in the old anime isn't "wrong", it's just different.

I disagree. If company decided to animate manga truthfully, not like original FMA series, then they should keep characters and emotions the way they are supposed to be, otherwise it is called cheating and not truthful adaption.

Imagine that your fave character is a bad ass in manga but anime turned him into a crying loser, would you like it?

I didn't see the new episode yet so I'm not comparing here. I did like old version and thought that it should be that way. But now I find out that it was supposed to be different! I don't know how I will react to this new episode yet, I might also prefer 99 take but mostly because I saw it first.

But if I were a manga reader, I would most likely dislike 99 version take on the fight for it would not show me what I wanted to see and saw originally.

For such changes exist separate series, OVAs and movies.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by SHINOBI-03

I guess you've never experienced watching an adaptation of your favorite book/manga that is totally not the same as what you've read

Oh I did, and I appreciated the new take. But that's the not the point, just my opinion. Whatever you think about adaptations, it's a fact that, unless ordered otherwise by the producers, directors usually don't try to mimic the original author's take and instead try to imprint their own subjectivity on their work. You wouldn't be much of a director or writer is you didn't go about it that way. Of course, the most purist fans of the source material might no appreciate this, but it can be helped as that's just the way things work for the most part.

EDIT: I realize this is getting pretty off-topic so we should stop here and move on.

[HybridBloodsZak]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Oh I did, and I appreciated the new take. But that's the not the point, just my opinion. Whatever you think about adaptations, it's a fact that, unless ordered otherwise by the producers, directors usually don't try to mimic the original author's take and instead try to imprint their own subjectivity on their work. You wouldn't be much of a director or writer is you didn't go about it that way. Of course, the most purist fans of the source material might no appreciate this, but it can be helped as that's just the way things work for the most part.

EDIT: I realize this is getting pretty off-topic so we should stop here and move on.

True but the whole purpose of this adaptation of the manga was to tell Yoshihiro Togashi's story not the directors. When this anime series was being adapted, the fall 2011 series cour preview even says that the "definitive version of manga will adapt the manga more faithfully"(more or less). That's cool that Furuhashi did his on take on the story and I respect him for it* but with this adaptation they gave viewers the expectation that this is the original and definitive story of HxH Togashi wanted in anime form.


*Another example is Peter Jackson and LOTR, I remember all of the book purists wanting to boycott the movies. I like the movies better as a result since Jackson's changes made the story more focused on Frodo

[Guardian Enzo]

Here's one problem I see with the discussion here, and why it gets so testy. Just MHO, of course.

The 1999 version had 12 years of basically standing on its own. It was compared to the manga, but that's to be expected. The title of this thread is "Hunter X Hunter (2011)". I think people who enjoy the 2011 get frustrated when the thread spends so much time talking about the 1999 series (and often, about why the poster thinks the Madhouse version sucks in comparison). This thread is about the 2011, not the 1999 - it's a little frustrating to see so much time spent comparing the two series, rather than talking about the 2011 itself or how it compares against the manga. The 1999 had the chance to be judged on its own merits, and against Togashi's original. The 2011 should get the same chance.

[Dengar]

I haven't even given my own opinion yet haha. Awesome episode which showed that Uvo never even stood a chance. Kurapica is ridiculously overpowered, but only while fighting the Spiders.

Anyway, I think all of Kurapica's abilities are out in the open now?

There's the dowsing chain, the healing chain, the chain jail, and the judgment chain. Oh also the chain he uses to hit people with and catch bullets, I forget the name of that one.'

Emperor Time is his Specialist ability that, for a short time, allows him to use abilities from all schools at maximum efficiency, which is normally impossible.
Note that this doesn't mean that all Specialists are like this. Neon is a Specialist as well, after all.

The Chain Jail is revealed to have some Manipulator properties that force the target into Zetsu.
The Healing Chain carries a Reinforcement ability, so it's far less powerful outside of Emperor Time.
The Judgment Chain may be the most dangerous although I'm not sure of all the conditions of its use. Does the target have to be restrained or is it simply unblockable? I'm not entirely sure. Either way, once the attack hits, a condition can be imposed that will kill the target if the target doesn't adhere to it. So dangerous. I am also unsure whether this ability is partly Manipulation, or simply freaky. Placing conditions onto people is ofen a Manipulator thing at least.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Dengar

I haven't even given my own opinion yet haha. Awesome episode which showed that Uvo never even stood a chance. Kurapica is ridiculously overpowered, but only while fighting the Spiders.

Only the chain jail is restricted to the Spiders, so he'd still be pretty overpowered fighting anyone else.

[Clarste]

Originally Posted by Dengar

There's the dowsing chain, the healing chain, the chain jail, and the judgment chain. Oh also the chain he uses to hit people with and catch bullets, I forget the name of that one.'

He uses the dowsing chain to block bullets and hit people. It's his most generic chain.

[Kit Kat]

It's kinda sad that no one knows the definition of an adaptation nowadays if it's broken down to something as simple as "this was copied exactly like the source of material" and ignore the direction of the scene altogether. It's equally as sad when the notion of a director putting his/her input into a scene instead of just copyng straight from the source is bashed by fans because "THAT WASN'T HOW IT WAS IN THE _______". So pretty much going by the logic of SHINOBI-03, HybridBloodsZak, and kitten 320 the Naruto is a good because it sticks 1:1 with the manga while the Rurouni Kenshin Trust and Betrayal OVAs are bad because the director decides to do his own thing rather than copy word for word and panel to panel from the manga. Ther's no such as an adaptation that's 100% as the source of material, hell, not even the 2011 HxH is all that faithful to the manga given the plethora of omits (*cough* Kaito *cough*) and other silly edits it's laughable to see fans get relied up over something as silly as a character's behavior which doesn't deviate anything from the scene being adapted or changes anything about the character itself.

[kitten320]

If I were the author and my anger driven character got changed into self loathing type, I would be displeased. As an author I would want to see MY idea on screen, not someone's else for I have already seen million of those.

As an author I would be interested to see alternatives that other people could come up with but with a promise that I will get my idea on screen too.

With that said, I'm glad to have 1999 version and this one since now we have both original and slight alternative. In all honesty I wouldn't mind a 3rd take which would be totally different like original FMA series. But that's it no more.
Though we are getting movie with alternative setting for my fave arc so I'm already satisfied.

Anyway, we just need to wait until Greed Island arc is done and then comparisons to 1999 version will finally end.

[Guardian Enzo]

The Kenshin OVAs are a completely invalid comparison to H x H, because they're not even interpretations of what was in the manga. They're completely invented scenes with characters who share the same names, and that's really the only connection. Whatever you think of either adaptation of H x H and whatever you think of the RK OVAs, they're different animals altogether.

[orion]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Here's one problem I see with the discussion here, and why it gets so testy. Just MHO, of course.

The 1999 version had 12 years of basically standing on its own. It was compared to the manga, but that's to be expected. The title of this thread is "Hunter X Hunter (2011)". I think people who enjoy the 2011 get frustrated when the thread spends so much time talking about the 1999 series (and often, about why the poster thinks the Madhouse version sucks in comparison). This thread is about the 2011, not the 1999 - it's a little frustrating to see so much time spent comparing the two series, rather than talking about the 2011 itself or how it compares against the manga. The 1999 had the chance to be judged on its own merits, and against Togashi's original. The 2011 should get the same chance.

Well it's like that on other forums too. You get used to it after a few episodes of this happening. We're had this going on for 47 episodes and it's a lot better now.

I think that the comparisons will prob stop after Greed Island as there will be no more old material to compare to.

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Only the chain jail is restricted to the Spiders, so he'd still be pretty overpowered fighting anyone else.

Oh that's good. It would be a waste of potential fight material to restrict all those chains.

[Kit Kat]

Originally Posted by kitten320

If I were the author and my anger driven character got changed into self loathing type, I would be displeased. As an author I would want to see MY idea on screen, not someone's else for I have already seen million of those.

That's a pretty terrible analogy. Since neither aspect define his character as a whole nor did it change the impact of those scene. Most authors would be glad that their work is even getting recognized in the first place and from what it is Togashi has never spoken out against the 99' anime and what's odd is that people started picking apart his portrayal recently so this really wasn't a problem until people started comparing it to the remake

Originally Posted by kitten320

Anyway, we just need to wait until Greed Island arc is done and then comparisons to 1999 version will finally end.

And we can just complain about how mediorce the adaptation is altogether.

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

The Kenshin OVAs are a completely invalid comparison to H x H, because they're not even interpretations of what was in the manga. They're completely invented scenes with characters who share the same names, and that's really the only connection. Whatever you think of either adaptation of H x H and whatever you think of the RK OVAs, they're different animals altogether.

The OVA series is based on chapters 165 to 179 of the Rurouni Kenshin manga, I was using the analogy as an example of how people interpret adaptations as they were not comparing both series. The OVAs weren't faithful to that arc and the director made some changes to better suit the direction of it and despite that the OVAs are universally acclaimed by anime watchers and fans of the manga alike because of how well done they are rather how much material was salvage and unchange from the manga.

[chikkychappy]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

The 1999 version had 12 years of basically standing on its own. It was compared to the manga, but that's to be expected. The title of this thread is "Hunter X Hunter (2011)". I think people who enjoy the 2011 get frustrated when the thread spends so much time talking about the 1999 series (and often, about why the poster thinks the Madhouse version sucks in comparison). This thread is about the 2011, not the 1999 - it's a little frustrating to see so much time spent comparing the two series, rather than talking about the 2011 itself or how it compares against the manga. The 1999 had the chance to be judged on its own merits, and against Togashi's original. The 2011 should get the same chance.

yes, because this only applies to 1999 fans right? it's not like shinobi is making a weekly comparison that bashes the 1999 series at every turn (and which you, based on your comments, obviously perceive as a "reliable" source. see how i feel this is unfair?)

many people in these thread are actually giving the 2011 series a chance. a lot are saying that this version of the fight is great, is amazing, is really good, etc. it's just that there's usually a footnote saying that they still prefer the 1999 series, which is not really being disrespectful.


anyway don't worry. when greed island comes nippon animation's version would be bashed to highest heavens. myself included, lol. (there's no way madhouse could make it worse than NA, right? RIGHT?) in fact, i find it really telling that the 1999 tv series could stand the test of time whereas GI OVAs are universally-reviled. that basically destroys that silly "nostalgia" claim