[Manga] Naruto Chapter 558 Discussion

[Tactics]

Originally Posted by Shingai-san

I want Naruto to die. Or maybe just for Madara to win. Like the Konoha 12 go underground and become a sort of freedom fighter movement. Make it much more gory and darker. A sienen. Naruto just might pick up then and be pretty badass. I would read it.

Sienen ? Did you mean seinen ? ^^;

Well ...
If Naruto died-- this manga title will changed into "Sasuke"

[Randrak42]

Originally Posted by Tactics

Sienen ? Did you mean seinen ? ^^;

Well ...
If Naruto died-- this manga title will changed into "Sasuke"

Oh please, I've been calling this manga "Sasuke" ever since the Chuunin Exam arc.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Baragan

Tsunade always has bad luck just like jiraya said. Thats why naruto is toast. Look at nawaki and dan they are both dead and tsunade bet on both of them being hokage.

Tsunade always had bad luck until she started to bet on Naruto. Naruto will succeed, always, and he will lost nothing in the process. This story is quite litteraly his.
Sasuke is exactly at the other hand of the balance. The only successes he ever had only existed to set up his fall after Itachi's death. Since then the author has repeatedly slapped him on the face at every turn and will continue to do so until the complete destructuration of his character at the hands of Naruto when he will finally submit and become Naruto's just like everybody else.

[octaviahawk]

Originally Posted by Hunter

Tsunade always had bad luck until she started to bet on Naruto. Naruto will succeed, always, and he will lost nothing in the process. This story is quite litteraly his.
Sasuke is exactly at the other hand of the balance. The only successes he ever had only existed to set up his fall after Itachi's death. Since then the author has repeatedly slapped him on the face at every turn and will continue to do so until the complete destructuration of his character at the hands of Naruto when he will finally submit and become Naruto's just like everybody else.

Lol, you make it sound like joining Naruto is like becoming a pod person

BTW, I would totally love it if the manga was named "Sasuke"; better yet, let's name it after the most bad-ass ninja of all time: "ITACHI!"

[Fruits Basket Fan]

Originally Posted by Nintendo

dont give up faith NaruHina fans, when that guy hit on sakura, she told him she loved somoene and in her mind, it was sasukes image that showed up.

dont stop believin!

Yeah, lets us totally forget the guy's feelings on this matter........



Seriously, though....You should know better.....Kishi does this to troll and bait pairing fans.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by octaviahawk

Lol, you make it sound like joining Naruto is like becoming a pod person

It's more like a virus permanently imprinting Naruto as a savior figure into their brains.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Hunter

It's more like a virus permanently imprinting Naruto as a savior figure into their brains.

If someone repeats an idea enough times, maybe it becomes true? .

Honestly, I wouldn't care so much if the other characters didn't also call Naruto their "saviour" or "chosen one". It's one thing for a storyteller to simply have a dominant presence in their story that can literally warp the perception of others (that's annoying, but it can at leats create a streamlined story). But to actually have other characters look toward this dominant personality and call it "saviour" seems very uncouth.

[Hunter]

Naruto hardly have to repeat himself for that, hell I think his ability put Shisui's MS to shame (which is probably why he didn't seem to have any problem with the prospect of brainwashing Sasuke to make him more agreeable).
But I wouldn't care at all if I could see any discernable reason for them to do so. If the whole savior thing had started after Naruto saved the army from "insert threat #10" then why not, saving them all nearly single handedly would deserve such titles.

But that wasn't really the point I was getting across, I just can't understand how many people can still delude themselves into thinking Sasuke is the real focus of the story or how he's somehow the author's favorite when he's been nothing but fate's punchingball for years.

[felix]

Naruto has been fate's punchingball for years too, pretty much. They hardly seem to achieve anything by themselves with out being forcibly put into a situation or training.

I think the statement originates more in how both characters kind of share the pie equally (at least leading up to this point). Sauske gets power up, Naruto gets power up, and then Naruto gets power up, Sauske gets power up. It could have been called "Naruto & Sauske" and even if Naruto seems a little more powered up right now, I don't know if anyone would really care.

Sauske should have been a lot more like Gaara. Start out as antagonist, get a lot of your development off-screen. But then how the flying squirrel do you tell the whole Uchiha story, family, brothers and all... well there's always the KILL HIM OFF option that solves everything I suppose.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by felix

Naruto has been fate's punchingball for years too, pretty much.

No he has not. Naruto had a troubled past before the beginning of the story, since then life has shined on Naruto no matter the odds.
The one and sole failure Naruto has ever experienced since the beginning of the manga was failing to stop Sasuke at the end of Part 1 which is something he will inevitably make right in the near future.
Naruto is (now litteraly) the golden boy whose choices are always right and who never suffer any adverse consequences from his actions. He can have his cake and eat it too.

I think the statement originates more in how both characters kind of share the pie equally (at least leading up to this point). Sauske gets power up, Naruto gets power up, and then Naruto gets power up, Sauske gets power up. It could have been called "Naruto & Sauske" and even if Naruto seems a little more powered up right now, I don't know if anyone would really care.

Power is completely irrelevant. This is a fighting manga, it goes without saying that Sasuke and Naruto will grow about as powerful as each other as long as they are rivals. Just like the fact that Kabuto and Madara grow in power according to their villainous status doesn't mean they are more important than Naruto to the story.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by felix

Naruto has been fate's punchingball for years too, pretty much.

Everybody is fate's punchingball in this manga, it doesn't matter what side they are, how strong they are, in the end somehow they got raped by the story. In the end the author wants Naruto to change this long history of "i kill your friends and family, then you kill mine". If we look at this from that perspective then this manga seems to be rather violent and sad despite being a shonen manga like dragon ball.

[felix]

@Hunter

That's not what I meant with being "fate's punchingball". What I meant was he just gets shoved around by events rather then actually moving the plot. You're right about him being the golden goose, but the plot doesn't really get influenced much by Naruto, the little influence he has is pretty much a consequence of some other plot shoving his ass into the spotlight. It's really hard to see Naruto as much of a strong protagonist when most of the time he's just placed where he is rather then getting there. Which brings on another point, Naruto bunny hops a lot of the series. It's like everything is moving on its own and suddenly we reach this artificial climax and it's "naruto time".

Of course by that I don't mean it as being necessarily bad for the series, it's just kind of bad for the character.

@Ero-Senn1n

If I look at it from that perspective the bunny hop plot is even more evident. But don't get the wrong idea here, if I didn't like it overall I wouldn't be reading.

[Hunter]

I don't think punchingball is the right word when fate always allow you to land on your feet no matter how oblivious you act. This is more massage with benefits than punches.

But anyway I agree with you on that. There is only one character forcing event into motion right now and that is Madara. Everybody else is merely dancing to his tunes.

[Frenchie]

I don't understand why the heck people still feel the need to say this manga should be called Sasuke, he's not even one of the protagonists anymore -_-

[GusGus]

Maybe because he gets big fights where he always wins, or 'cause he gets insane power ups (I even think that his power development has been better done than Naruto's), or because big parts of the manga are dedicated to him and his story, etc.

Being said that, I think that Naruto is clearly the protagonist, a fucking annoying protagonist.

[Frenchie]

Originally Posted by GusGus

Maybe because he gets big fights where he always wins

Where he gets beat up to an inch of his life, you mean?

or 'cause he gets insane power ups

Yeeaaah, he's one of the main antagonists, what do you expect?

(I even think that his power development has been better done than Naruto's)

You mean like explaining how he got his summoning contract with hawks?

or because big parts of the manga are dedicated to him and his story, etc.

The focus in the manga has always been the Uchiha. The Senju came in later as the counter-balance, but to tell the story of the Uchiha is to tell Sasuke's story, as one of the two remaining Uchiha's.

Being said that, I think that Naruto is clearly the protagonist, a fucking annoying protagonist.

No question there.

[Om Nerabdator]

Originally Posted by sayde

The NaruHina fan in me enjoyed this weeks chapter immensely.

me too we need more moments like this!

[LadyRelena]

Originally Posted by Fruits Basket Fan

Yeah, lets us totally forget the guy's feelings on this matter........

We all know that Sasuke hates pretty much everyone and everything. However, from past experience, Naruto characters have a surprising habit of changing their minds quite suddenly and sometimes very out of character like.

Seriously, though....You should know better.....Kishi does this to troll and bait pairing fans.

Perhaps; I'm sure thats true and all but lately (if you look at all their interactions as a whole) events seem to be going ever so slightly in Hinata's favor, especially after Sakura's whole confession and the fact that Naruto knows she'll never give up on Sasuke. I mean, the guy tried to kill her and she still loves him. That says a lot for her conviction.