2012-05-14, 01:10 | Link #8241 | |
Romanticist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Age: 33
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Whatever the case, there's no question that the punishment was extreme. No doubt that the guild's philosophy isn't as internalized in its members as it should be, but it is still a matter that should be settled internally. The only people who have any right to question the practices and ideals of the guild are its own members. In contrast, Natsu is just an outsider trying to uphold what he thinks is right without knowing anything. This incident is making me hate his character much more. It was fine when he was dealing with villains determined to threaten the world's stability, but why can't he just leave guilds to their own affairs? Why does he have to take a moral high ground? Anyway, the best answer to this dilemma without resorting to force (like Natsu) is to defeat Sabertooth in the tournament. That is probably the best way to crumble their guild philosophy.
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2012-05-14, 02:40 | Link #8242 | |
ANEGO Worshiper
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: By the vending machine, drinking tea.
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If that makes you hate the character...then so be it, it's you opinion. You should know how Natsu acts by now, 282 chapters and this is typical Natsu. If you hate him because of this then I'm actually surprised you don't hate him already because it's standard procedure for him. I don't deny that he is imposing his ideals onto another guild, however he is also acting upon witnessing how distraught the victim was, regardless of her being at fault for joining the guild in the first place or not (which I still believe she isn't). You asked if someone joining FT expecting it to be a brute guild aimed at destruction was at fault... Pre-timeskip, FT was known for making a mess of things and acting violently. A person joining knowing this is not really at fault for being ignorant, you can't really know a guild (aside from basic "is it a dark guild or not?" and basic public knowledge) until after you join it. That person WOULD be at fault if he stayed in the guild and acted unnecessarily violent even after figuring out how it works. Yukino was a new member, its doubtful that she knew about how extreme the guild would be before joining and like Krono said, it is unlikely for a guild to go "Hey, you'll be humiliated in very harsh ways if you fail." once someone joins...at most they might have explained that failure means expulsion...not that it means expulsion AND humiliation. Again, remember that she was a recent member. Would I join a religion I don't believe in? No, but neither did Yukino. She joined a guild she idolized...it's the same as me joining a religion I believe in but only have public knowledge of its actions. Now, if I join a religion which I believe in but after a while I learn that they secretly, let's say...make human sacrifices! I would attempt to leave (a religious group like this wouldn't let me but this is irrelevant xD) but again, did Yukino know about the extreme actions of the master? If she did know how far he could take his punishments then even I would feel less sorry for her...because she was stupid in staying and left open to receive the same punishment...but I highly doubt a new member like her knew about it at all. |
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2012-05-14, 04:39 | Link #8243 | ||
Romanticist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Age: 33
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A great thing he could do when he gets stronger is to beat up every single guild he doesn't agree with since that's basically what he did there. It only works since we're we're assured beforehand that Natsu's side is "right". Quote:
You're undervaluing the weight of the decision making process that goes into joining a guild. To you, it's a rather trivial decision akin to finding out what to eat for lunch while to me, it is a commitment that should only be made after making an informed decision. Is joining a guild really not a big deal after all? It seems like you can join any guild that passes your fancy. I didn't think all guilds were as laidback as FT in that respect. Do they really have no way of filtering potential members before awarding them the honor of joining a guild? Even if you're saying she was ignorant for her entire stay in the guild, it doesn't matter. Like I said, it's an internal matter that should be resolved internally. Sabertooth is doing nothing to threaten the other guilds or society at large so they deserve to that luxury at the very least. Not only were Natsu's actions appalling, they were downright criminal. Let me clarify something for you. You don't join a religion just by knowing its public actions. You have to internalize every single aspect of its philosophy. You either you believe it, or you don't. That's the thing. Joining a religion isn't a simple matter of "I like what you're doing, so I'll join you". Join a charity if that's the kind of thing you're after, but that kind of reason for joining a religion is stupid, plain and simple. A religion is all about a community sharing a single philosophy while in pursuit of some higher goal. Even if human sacrifice comes it up, it wouldn't matter if you've completely internalized the religion's philosophy. The crux of our disgreement here is that you treat Yukino's ignorance as inevitable while I treat it as outright stupidity. There's really no way as of yet to tell it from the other, so I propose that we should just agree to disagree for now.
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2012-05-14, 04:53 | Link #8244 | |
ANEGO Worshiper
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: By the vending machine, drinking tea.
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It was, however, entertaining. |
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2012-05-14, 11:23 | Link #8245 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Hmm, Gemma speech reminded me of Laxus when he tried to create his strongest Fairy Tail.
Sabertooth might be pretty close to what Laxus guild might have looked like. So thats what i think the Natsu x Gemma fight will go like: Gemma flattens Natsu and kicks out almost all the guildmembers because they couldn't deal with Natsu on their own. Rogue might point out this is ridiculous and quits himself (or at least comes close to quitting himself). The chapter might end funny with the appearance of Minerva (at last) the next morning wondering where everyone went. |
2012-05-14, 11:26 | Link #8246 | |
ANEGO Worshiper
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: By the vending machine, drinking tea.
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Keeping this in mind, it would actually be quite entertaining to have Laxus fight Genma instead xD |
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2012-05-14, 11:49 | Link #8247 |
Evil Mage
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: There...no, not there.Yes, there!
Age: 32
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Gemma: I created the strongest guild!
Laxus: That's my idea.... Gemma: Eh? So what? Laxus: "Fairy Law"! *Light shines* Gemma half-dead: ... Laxus: Damn poser... But seriously now that you pointed it out, I really do see SaberTooth = Fairy Tail(with Laxus as Master). Well that was before now he seems more level-headed as Gajeel pointed out. |
2012-05-14, 13:47 | Link #8248 |
Awe of She
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Orlando
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Lesson learned: Read the fine print, or end up like Yukino.
All in all, there are merits to both Randrak's and Qilin's viewpoints since essentially both of them were addressed. It's the reason why a lot of people, while they applaud Natsu for the reason why he's crashing Sabertooth's hotel, also want to see him stopped because it really isn't none of his business and he can't go imposing like that on other people, no matter how much they might need it. Free Will is a b**** sometimes... In Natsu's eyes, a Guild exists because of the People in it - People don't exist to make a Guild, which is what Laxus saw before and what Genma sees now. Two viewpoints are clashing and whoever has more power to back up their claim will get the upper hand. Does it make it right? No, but then again, 'power' never cares what side it's on, it is only used.
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2012-05-14, 14:38 | Link #8249 |
Know who you are
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Resides within the depths of Ned infested Glasgow
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Problem with this is I highly doubt there is any fine print to read, we can't honestly expect Sabertooth to advertise themselves as powerful but total assholes now can we?
I would bet there are plenty of stuff floating the rumor mill but people wouldn't know how SB really deal with stuff until they are part of the guild or witness it first hand. We might not be able to throw our exact moral values on the story but we can throw some of it on. And Yukino's treatment is where I see it perfectly thing to throw some at cause if we didn't then the FT world would really be a pretty shitty place to live, if something like that is considered fine/acceptable.
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2012-05-14, 20:26 | Link #8251 | |
Awe of She
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Orlando
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~*~ Natsu: "What kind of guild are you!? What kind of friends are you!? She lost one battle - ONE! And you throw her away like garbage!?" Sting: "What are you talking about? Friends? Comrades? Who needs such things! We're the strongest - we don't need friends!" Natsu: "They why bother even calling yourselves a guild!? Everyone in a guild is suppopse to be a friend - even if you don't get along! These are the people that you're suppose to help out! The ones you're suppose to trust to have your back! The ones who give you a family to come back to!! Sting: "Hah! So says someone from the weakest guild in Fiore! They didn't do anything at all for 7 years! They lost everything just because you losers were too weak to fight a dragon!" Natsu: "WE AREN'T WEAK AT ALL!! Our guild members that stuck around, that endured all of that BS for 7 freakin' years - You guys couldn't even last through 6 MONTHS OF THAT! Who's WEAK!? Could you say that even one of your comrades would believe in you!? Can you say that any of them would trust you to return, even if you didn't!?" Sting: "...Like I need something like that! I don't need to be liked, I don't need to be trusted. My power gives me all that I need! I'm a true Dragon Slayer, you 1st Gen weakling!" Natsu: "Fine then...I'll show you...the power that you'd never be able to obtain...the power that will crush you and your stupid ideals!" Sting: "Bring it on, weakling. You're in MY house now, and you're all alone." Natsu: *smirks* "Oh really?" *many approachign steps are heard* Erza: "Unfortunately for you, he is NOT alone..." Gray: "...like it or not, he's a member of our team..." Lucy: "And he's a member of Fairy Tail!" Wendy: "We ALL are!" *Enters Erza, Gray, Lucy, Wendy, Happy, Charlie, Laxus, Mirajane, Elfman, Lisanna, Freed, Bixlow, Cana, Alzack, Bisca, Max, 'Mystogun', Gajeel, Panterlily, and Juvia* Sting: Rest of Sabertooth: Natsu: "We've got one Guild War win under our belt - I don't mind going two for two!" Erza: "Natsu!!" Natsu: "...erk!" Erza: "I understand how you feel, believe me...we ALL understand how you feel. But this...isn't the right way." Natsu: "What!? You're telling me to let these jerks off the hook for what they did!?" Lucy: "Please Natsu. Yukino didn't want to start a guild war over this. Besides..." Gray: "Beating them down like this won't really prove anything." Natsu: "BUT I'M STILL PISSED OFF!!!" Laxus: "Calm down, Natsu. Actually, I'm glad I got to come along on this lil field trip." *looks at Sabertooth* "...I got to see just what Fairy Tail might have become had Gramps gave in to me back then during the Magnolia festival. I can't believe I'm saying this but - I hate it. Our guild shouldn't become like this." Natsu: "...Laxus." ~*~ ...and I better stop before I get too carried away...
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2012-05-15, 01:02 | Link #8258 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Quote:
Gemma's complaint was that she'd wagered her life, lost, and been pitied by the enemy. In other words, he's upset she didn't win and didn't die a result. If she'd killed Kagura (or presumably decisively defeated her but spared her life), or been killed herself, he would have found it an acceptable result. Even if it had been an incredibly close battle that Kagura barely won and would be out of the tournament due to her wounds; as long as Kagura declined to deliver the killing blow, Gemma would find the result unacceptable as that would still be being pitied by the enemy. So his complaint isn't with the wagering itself, but rather with outcome of the fight wagered on. |
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2012-05-15, 16:20 | Link #8259 |
ANEGO Worshiper
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: By the vending machine, drinking tea.
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The way I see it, one of three things will happen to Yukino:
- She will die during that whole portal opening or whatever thing and Lucy will get her keys; - She will join Fairy Tail, live and keep the keys; - She will have some moment later on where her life is in danger and is saved by Sabertooth, who then welcome her back to the guild, she either keeps the keys or gives them to Lucy. Personally think that the third option is the most likely, provided that Genma leaves the guild along the way. |
2012-05-16, 07:01 | Link #8260 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
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Tags |
action, adventure, fantasy, shounen |
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