Macross Frontier - Episode 18 Discussion / Poll

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by G1Ace

And this is anime. Even if you are driving upside down, you shouldn't think too much, just sit back, relax and enjoy the ride

So far this particular anime has been very solid in his storytelling, so an obvious "Bwuh?" moment really stands out. It´s not like the Mummy 3, which has one moment of idiotic plotting after the next, and asks the audience to just suspend disbelief entirely.

And it is nice that we get a medical discussion about what the type V infection really is ( I am left wondering that, too ), but the question I was asking was "Why didn´t Sheryl get the side-effects more often, if she has been fed Witchcraft 639 for six years as "supplements"?".


Ack... there´s another thing which could count as a plot-hole. When Ranka gets her "glowing belly-contractions" during the Vajra wipe-out, shouldn´t the whole military brass and everybody who had a feed of the transmission have seen that? Is that going to be handwaved like the "She emits fold-waves? How?" - "We don´t know."-"Oh, well then." thing from episode 16?

I´m loath to admit that, but there do seem to be some minor slip-ups with the story lately.

[G1Ace]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

So far this particular anime has been very solid in his storytelling, so an obvious "Bwuh?" moment really stands out. It´s not like the Mummy 3, which has one moment of idiotic plotting after the next, and asks the audience to just suspend disbelief entirely.

And it is nice that we get a medical discussion about what the type V infection really is ( I am left wondering that, too ), but the question I was asking was "Why didn´t Sheryl get the side-effects more often, if she has been fed Witchcraft 639 for six years as "supplements"?".


Ack... there´s another thing which could count as a plot-hole. When Ranka gets her "glowing belly-contractions" during the Vajra wipe-out, shouldn´t the whole military brass and everybody who had a feed of the transmission have seen that? Is that going to be handwaved like the "She emits fold-waves? How?" - "We don´t know."-"Oh, well then." thing from episode 16?

I´m loath to admit that, but there do seem to be some minor slip-ups with the story lately.

Trust me, I have studied for a time pharmaceuticals. Trying to make sense of some of the side effects, why they happen when they happen, what triggers them, still can befundle us.

One thing that could have happened is grace increasing the dosage of the pill. Another is that Grace changed pills to one that has more side effects. Another is that Grace has been feeding Sheryl some other stuff/medication that increases the odds of getting the side effects. Yet another explanation is that the virus interacts in such a way with the medication that the side effects don't become visible untill a certain treshold of replication has been reached. Interaction with foods, unique conditions present only in the atmosphere of frontier that could increase the chance of getting side effects.

You can also have certain medication that accumulate, because they are fat soluble, or because they enter the brain tissue, get metabolized into another kind of compound, and this compound can't leave the brain.
This means they get stored in fatty tissue and are then slowly released. Vitamin D for example, if given in a high enough dosage, takes up to 6 months of treatment before no more treatment is required, because it accumulates into fatty tisue. The side effect of too much vitamin D is hypercalcemia, meaning too much calcium in the blood, which can be deadly.

Who knows what explanation they come up with. Probably not half as good as these

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by G1Ace

Trust me, I have studied for a time pharmaceuticals. Trying to make sense of some of the side effects, why they happen when they happen, what triggers them, still can befundle us.

One thing that could have happened is grace increasing the dosage of the pill. Another is that Grace changed pills to one that has more side effects. Another is that Grace has been feeding Sheryl some other stuff/medication that increases the odds of getting the side effects. Yet another explanation is that the virus interacts in such a way with the medication that the side effects don't become visible untill a certain treshold of replication has been reached. Interaction with foods, unique conditions present only in the atmosphere of frontier that could increase the chance of getting side effects.

You can also have certain medication that accumulate, because they are fat soluble, or because they enter the brain tissue, get metabolized into another kind of compound, and this compound can't leave the brain.
This means they get stored in fatty tissue and are then slowly released. Vitamin D for example, if given in a high enough dosage, takes up to 6 months of treatment before no more treatment is required, because it accumulates into fatty tisue. The side effect of too much vitamin D is hypercalcemia, meaning too much calcium in the blood, which can be deadly.

Who knows what explanation they come up with. Probably not half as good as these

Now, *those* are explications which do make sense. All right, count me mollified on that account. Changing the more benign medication for a less benign one sounds like the most plausible one, although it still stands that Sheryl was in perfect health for what appears to be six years.

*edit* Oh, and as I was rewatching the scene where Klan and Michael talk about the pill, a big "lol" at Klan, who misreads Michael as going for Sheryl. ^^

I really hope they don´t make an AIDS metaphor out of her, I want her to get some close time with Alto-hime.



That still leaves the "show glowing belly to everyone" thing of Ranka. One would think that at least someone like, y'know, Ozma would have had some reaction to it. Although what was said between him and Canaria seems to hint that he knows more about Rankas background than he has let on so far...

[kilroy0097]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

And it is nice that we get a medical discussion about what the type V infection really is ( I am left wondering that, too ), but the question I was asking was "Why didn´t Sheryl get the side-effects more often, if she has been fed Witchcraft 639 for six years as "supplements"?".

Actually a plausible explanation of this would be one of two things. One there was an active ingredient that negated the worst of the side effects that is no longer in the mix because Grace simply removed it from the combination. Two, Sheryl has developed a resistances to the drug which happens with humans all the time. Sometimes we even develop allergies to drugs for no apparent reason.

Ack... there´s another thing which could count as a plot-hole. When Ranka gets her "glowing belly-contractions" during the Vajra wipe-out, shouldn´t the whole military brass and everybody who had a feed of the transmission have seen that? Is that going to be handwaved like the "She emits fold-waves? How?" - "We don´t know."-"Oh, well then." thing from episode 16?

This may be a depiction of animators to show the audience (us) that something special is going on but it may not be visible to the other characters. It's like demonstrating that a person gets an idea by showing a light bulb over their head. No one else actually see the light bulb. It's a prop or alteration to help us the audience viewers. That's my assumption of it.

Now on to other interesting tidbits.
Spoiler Tag for large picture loads and spoilers for people who haven't see it yet.

Spoiler:

Article in Cosmo Nature (Nov.2047) called "Management and prevention of V type infection". You can try and zoom in and see the fine print if you can.



Within the 117th Investigation Convoy - Project Leader: Dr. Mao Nome - Assistants: Ranshe Mei and Grace O'Connor



Picture of Dr. Mao Nome as an old woman. This was the little girl from Macross Zero just in case you have completely missed the clue train.



This is a picture of Ranshe Mei whom we do not know yet with what looks to be a Vajra behind her. Personally I think it's Ranka's real mother. Evidence to that is the next picture.



As you can see from the family photo there is Berera as a little kid with the harmonica around his neck and there is Ranka. Now behind him is a woman with similar features to Ranshe Mei and she is wearing a white lab coat.

Let the discussion begin. ^_^

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by kilroy0097

Actually a plausible explanation of this would be one of two things. One there was an active ingredient that negated the worst of the side effects that is no longer in the mix because Grace simply removed it from the combination. Two, Sheryl has developed a resistances to the drug which happens with humans all the time. Sometimes we even develop allergies to drugs for no apparent reason.

Yep, it´s quite plausible all in all. Thanks to you, too!

Originally Posted by kilroy0097

This may be a depiction of animators to show the audience (us) that something special is going on but it may not be visible to the other characters. It's like demonstrating that a person gets an idea by showing a light bulb over their head. No one else actually see the light bulb. It's a prop or alteration to help us the audience viewers. That's my assumption of it.

Hmmm.... that *could* be. But so far the show has not resorted to such a storytelling device before and hasn´t been the type of show that uses allegories and "audience-only" devices. So I think Rankas belly really does glow purple in those moments. Which gets us back to me wondering why nobody thinks anything about that fact.

Originally Posted by kilroy0097

This is a picture of Ranshe Mei whom we do not know yet with what looks to be a Vajra behind her. Personally I think it's Ranka's real mother. Evidence to that is the next picture.[/spoiler]

I think we can safely remove the spoiler tag, as we are two days after the episode aired.

Ranshe quite obviously is Rankas mom ( or custodian) , if we remember episode 13 and Breras flashback.

But, more importantly thank you for getting that big picture of Ranshe Mei. Now I can compare it directly with a good frontal of Sheryl, oh yes!

[Hypernova]

Originally Posted by kilroy0097

...

Let the discussion begin. ^_^

Well the one thing that caught my eye is that Grace hasn't aged a day. And MF has show so far that everyone in their flash back tends to look noticeably younger. Who known how old she really is.

[Prov1]

Originally Posted by Hypernova

Well the one thing that caught my eye is that Grace hasn't aged a day. And MF has show so far that everyone in their flash back tends to look noticeably younger. Who known how old she really is.

I don't think Grace is a human.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by kilroy0097

Let the discussion begin. ^_^

Yeah, and Jeffrey Wilder is the daddy. Don't ask, I was told by my 6th sense.

- Tak

[Hypernova]

Originally Posted by Prov1

I don't think Grace is a human.

I know she isn't but perhaps she used to be and was changed during sometime between Macross zero and MF.

[germanturkey]

the op was amazing. but this ep didn't make me feel good as a Sheryl fan. it made me sick when Ranka was like, "Everyone, embrace me!!" sooooo annoying. my theory: Ranka inherited the soul of the vajra queen. since they have a collective hive mind, when one of them dies, she feels their pain. she'll have to die to eliminate the vajra.

[glyph]

Originally Posted by Prov1

I don't think Grace is a human.

With all the GITS hijinks that she performs, her cyborg body is probably more machine than human at this point, so she can have it built to appear however she wants and never age a day. Why she would choose to have it resemble her original body when she is going to ground with shady activities beats me, however. Vanity?

Or for all we know, "Grace O'Connor" is really Dr. Mao Nome (who is too famous to disappear and change jobs), and the real Grace perished in the 117th fleet catastrophe. (See, Sara Nome was right all this time, dabbling in mad science really _is_ kadun!)

[Tak]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Now, *those* are explications which do make sense. All right, count me mollified on that account. Changing the more benign medication for a less benign one sounds like the most plausible one, although it still stands that Sheryl was in perfect health for what appears to be six years.

*edit* Oh, and as I was rewatching the scene where Klan and Michael talk about the pill, a big "lol" at Klan, who misreads Michael as going for Sheryl. ^^

To me, whatever Sheryl has on her right now is perhaps explained at best, a controlled disease. Grace just activated by providing her with catalysts. Moreover, clearly there is a prevention method, we just don't know exactly what it is. I am sure Klan would find out more about it, and perhaps fabricate a cure.

On the other hand, way to go Mikhail. Keep it up!

- Tak

[kilroy0097]

Sheryl Nome as a child in a hospital being treated supposedly for the V type virus. Results in a thesis done at Galaxy fleet the year is 2053. So 6 years after the initial study of the V-Type virus with Dr. Mao Nome, Sheryl is being studied for this same virus after being found on in the slums on the Galaxy by Grace. The implications that Grace took a homeless child off the streets to simply experiment on her with new forms of V-Type virus strains in order to publish a thesis on the subject and to come up with alternate ways of using the virus is too great. This will probably be a key factor in future episodes.

Oh and I'm a dork and watched it again for the second time. I really love that OP and the Aimo combat song is even more kick ass now that we hear more of it. Her original version of Aimo sung at the very end was sad. Almost a mourning song for the dead Vajra.

[Ashlotte]

Sheryl...

I really hope they don't wait to start her upswing in the very last few episodes because this is painful...

Atleast theirs an Alto and Sheryl talk to look forward to next time...

[cheesie]

Investigation
Ranshe = Sheryl's Mom

Supporting Evidence
- They have the same hair style. ( )

...

Seriously.

Edit: Crisis's Theory :P
- Grace and Ranshe were in a love triangle of their own over Ranka's dad and they fought a bitter war with each other, resulting in a fall-out of the project. Grace was driven mad with anguish and grief when Vajra killed the fleet, which will explain why she hates them so much. Grace found Sheryl on the streets and went ahead with the experiment.

[G1Ace]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Yep, it´s quite plausible all in all. Thanks to you, too!



Hmmm.... that *could* be. But so far the show has not resorted to such a storytelling device before and hasn´t been the type of show that uses allegories and "audience-only" devices. So I think Rankas belly really does glow purple in those moments. Which gets us back to me wondering why nobody thinks anything about that fact.



I think we can safely remove the spoiler tag, as we are two days after the episode aired.

Ranshe quite obviously is Rankas mom ( or custodian) , if we remember episode 13 and Breras flashback.

But, more importantly thank you for getting that big picture of Ranshe Mei. Now I can compare it directly with a good frontal of Sheryl, oh yes!

magnuskn, I really really really don't think that Ranshe has any connection with Sheryl. Really

check episode 3, min 7:40, when both sheryl and alto are watching ranka's buns, compared with the pics you can see of Ranshe
They both (yes, Hime as well) have the same face structure as Ranshe.
Sheryl has blue eyes, while Ranshe has purple eyes
Sheryl has mid long pink hair, while Ranshe has very long green hair.

What do they share? They share the same skin complexion, face structure, knowing Grace and Ranka but that's about all Sheryl shares with Ranshe.

Check the whole pic again. Even Grace and Mao (who I definetly remember to be more dark skinned in Zero) have the same complexion

Think about it. Why would Ranshe give up her child to live in some slump in Galaxy? What mother could do that to her child? Wouldn't someone else like Ozma not remember if he has a picture of Ranka her family? How could that even happen? Why would Brera not remember he had an older sister?

You mentioned yourself that these people are really good at what they do, but still this is an anime. This could most likely have been a sloppy coloring mistake in an attempt to make a female in which she happens to look allot like another important female character then anything else, using standard anime character design techniques.

We've seen crazy stuff.
Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe in episode 24 we find out everything about Ranshe and it turns out that she was a horrible mother to Sheryl, who gave up Sheryl to Grace so she could let her first born daughter live in some slump on Galaxy for a few years before Grace would pick her up and turn her into the idol she became later on. But right now, that whole idea of Sheryl being Ranshe's forgotten love child looks too farfetched.

[cheesie]

Originally Posted by G1Ace

But right now, that whole idea of Sheryl being Ranshe's forgotten love child looks too farfetched.

She obviously had a tragic love affair with Vrlitwhai. This is what happens when she discovers the moe bite marks.

[Tsukiyomi]

Originally Posted by lone_wolf

That was indeed the better version of Aimo...with such feeling. It's how it should be done.



--Lone Wolf
一匹狼

I agree. It might be a foreshadowing of the role Sheryl will eventually take as the true inheritor of Lynn Minmay~

"V" in V-virus = Vajra Virus

I call this nice pic Vajra in a testtube.

[CrowKenobi]

Originally Posted by Tsukiyomi

I call this nice pic Vajra in a testtube.

Wasn't that the lab that Alto found in episode 13?

[apsody243]

OK hears my theory on this whole V-Type infection, maybe the V in the name stands for Vajra and that this certain type of infection allows a person to communicate with the Vajra.
Ranka is also infected with this virus as shown in episode 14 "cant provide pic but its shown at 18:16" and is there for able to interact with the Vajra. Now Grace and her ilk thought that Ranka had died 11 years ago, and in order to continue their research they needed to find a substitute, in comes Sheryl but maybe Sheryl's body is rejecting the virus and thus killing her, or the virus they made was inferior to the one thats in Ranka.

The reasons as to why their virus may be inferior is that Ranka's mother who was involved in its creation "correct me if I'm wrong" is dead and without her they aren't able to make a usable product and instead have an inferior copy that kills its host.

Feel free to dissect my theory